I haven't tried that yet but I am about to test an artist acrylic that is rated for exterior use from Brera.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
I would assume the artist's acrylics aren't designed for outdoor use and the clear coating is to extend the life.
One Shot's UV blockers would help prolong the fading process, but as for how long, I can say. The sun eventually has it's way.
Omni auto clear makes a line that has UV blockers in it, but, again, if the paint underneath is sensitive to light, it'll still fade in a few years.
One thing I've learned the hard way is that no matter how much clear coating you do, the sun stills shines through. UV blockers only do so much. It may cost a few more dollars for the better paints, but you'll save the time and cost of adding the clear coat and eliminate the risk of it lifting or other problems.
One less step and a whole lot less to worry about.
Hope this helps... Rapid
Posted by Sal Cabrera (Member # 1236) on :
I had done couple of times Joe, it does work well for me. I used "Jo Sonaja's" or Grumbacher Acadamy Arclylic" for pictorial then apply two to three coats of Omni Clear with hardernes or PPG clear with Hardernes it will protect your art work as well it won't fade away as one shot does. I had some signs that I did over 5 year ago and they looks fine. I hope this help
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
Check Out Nova www.novacolorpaint.com it is for exterior use as well and we used it for some of the murals in Pontiac and also in Belle Plain, IA. The company claims to have over 100 murals using that paint in Philadelphia.
These are good people who run the company. Their paint is fabulous. They'll send you stuff. It's a breakthrough as far as I'm concerned. They're out of California and the movie industry uses a lot of that paint.
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
We've been having good luck with Sher-Clear from Sherwin Williams. It's acrylic, quite tough and has UV inhibitors. No catalyzing. Maybe a light coat first to seal it up; then a heavy coat or two to protect.
Posted by bill riedel (Member # 607) on :
I have been told that Jo Sonja's makes their own clear and they say it will hold up outside. Bill
Posted by stein Saether (Member # 430) on :
Good outdoor acryl last 10 to 30 years. Clear probably yellows in 1 to 3 years, dont know about urethane clear, does that last?
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
Thanks for all the great input!
Just to add my own, (untested over time) method was to add artists acrylics to a quart of mixing base (Ben Moore). The project has been out for 2 years and looks great, BUT, its in the shade all summer. No clear.
Looks like a little homework is in order here. Bill, I'll definatly check out NOVA....they seem to have a few other products that might be usefull as well.
Thanks again everybody for your efforts....appreciate it!!
Joe,
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
I have used 2 part urethane on acrylics no problem just dont lay it down to heavy as it would lift and wrinkle....and throw that one shot clear away!
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
...If you use the right paint, you shouldn't need ANY clear. Right? Can't the acrylic house paint (that some of us use for back grounds) be used for illustrations as well? ...Joe, since you are an experimenter, some paint / clear exposure tests could be in order.
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
Yes Billy, I agree. Problem is, I'd need a dozen or more quarts of paint to fill out a palette.....little pricy for the small scale work that I have right now. I'm not actually going to do the painting......I have a young artist who paints with acrylics and she is going to start playing with the house paints first (I do have a few quarts already). The best plan, if this doesn't work, is to go with the artists acrylics and clearcoat.
BTW, I don't have enough time left to experiment with something where, the real results, won't be known for many years AND because I have such great friends here (who have been there, done that) The learning curve is shortened for everyone.
One and All......Thanks again!
Joe
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
We have done murals with acrylic latex house paints, and as with any paint certain colors will retain their hues better than others. In the acrylics, for instance, bright red is more suspect than maroon -- although both will fade quicker than most other colors. This is reverse from the alkyds where maroon will fade quicker than bright red.
Another acrylic latex color that fades quickly is yellow. Anyone who was at the Pontiac walldog meet might remember the funeral march we did at the site of the mural on the back of the motel. That mural was done in '87, making it 22 years old. The building has been torn down now making room for a new law and justice center. The paint used on that mural was Devoe's Regency House 100% acrylic latex house paint. The mural was done mostly in earth tones which are colors that perform reasonably well.
3 blocks from that site is a mural done with 1 Shot lettering (alkyd) enamels. The 1 Shot folks have said repeatedly that lettering enamels will outperform their bulletin colors for those who do not know. That mural was done in '94 making it 17 years old. The maroon was gone from that mural in 5 years and I would say overall the acrylic latex outperformed the alkyd, but not by much. That was then.
Sign painting alkyds have gone through some transformations since then with the removal of pigmented lead from all colors. Those colors included reds, yellows and emerald green to name a few. According to their representatives the paint has also undergone some resin transformations. It has never been entirely clear to me why those transformations were made other than they wanted to keep the cost of the products competitive in an increasingly vinyl oriented market.
I was a part of a test group when the company was trying to redo their formulations. They knew that some of the changes made were adversely affecting their products. The new 1 Shot is on the shelves and the verdict is out as far as I'm concerned, because it may take a while to evaluate the performance of their colors.
NOW ... you have to practically stand on your head to get a brushable paint to hold up colorwise for 10 years. That is why painters are interested in clear coats. Many clear coats are only protective for a few years and need to be cleared again. That is not always practical, but from a labor standpoint it is much easier to keep up with a periodic clearing schedule than redoing each and every color.
The hardiest clears and ones that might be capable of lasting 10 years before redoing would be catalyzed urethane UV clears as would be used to clear coat today's trucks and cars. They are designed to dry fast to avoid attracting foreign particles, and they are designed to be sprayed. This clear is dangerous to the applicator and every precaution needs to be taken when spraying. They can and have been used successfully to clear both alkyd and acrylic latex paints provided enough time has elapsed for the paint to cure so that the harsh solvents in that type of clear do not wrinkle and lift the paint.
1 Shot introduced a hardener to quicken the cure rate so that their paint could be topcoated with automotive clears. I have found this to take a few days relative to temperature and humidity. I have also found it is safer to spray the clear, because the pressure of rolling the clear can cause wrinkling and color lifting unless an extended cure time is allowed -- maybe a week.
Nova Paint and some similar brands are acrylic paints with higher concentrations of pigment than acrylic latex house paints. They are different from the tube acrylics that you would use to paint a picture on canvas that would eventually hang on a wall inside. They are brush and roll ready and packaged in plastic jars and buckets. They also have a compatible line of retarders, glazes and clears that an artist can use for special effects. They have a chart that categorizes the colors into lightfastness so that if you are doing a mural outdoors you can pick colors that will hold up the best when exposed to the UV rays of the sun. They also categorize the paint into opaque, transluscent and transparent colors.
I have found this paint much different that house paint in that it can be taped on in a very short period of time. Also I have been able to roll the automotive clears on top of it within an hour without color lifting or wrinkling. By rolling the clear you do not have to worry about drifting overspray and other than wearing a proper mask and rubber gloves I have been able to learn a few simple tricks so that I can roll an adequate amount of clear on my signs without having to spray. A slight orange peel is what I get and that to me is acceptable for a sign. That is why I'm so excited about the paint, because now I can get the bright colors and can even brush on colors that cover relatively well and clear the whole shabang and get the dawg out the door PDQ.
[ November 20, 2009, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: Bill Diaz ]
Posted by stein Saether (Member # 430) on :
Made a big mural 8 years ago, Yellow, oker, red and black and no fading. Jotun acryl Lady series.
Posted by Kerry Hargraves (Member # 6837) on :
Joe - Home Depot offers house paint (several brands) in 8-oz sample sizes (about $3). Colors formulated while you wait. A more economical way to fill out your palette if you need many colors but not a lot of volume.
Posted by Judy Grossman (Member # 235) on :
Well, I have to say, it is a joy to see Bill professing NovaColor! I love converts. I love turning people on to the paint that I love and the people that sell it. I used to paint murals (years ago) with house paint. Another muralist, thankfully turned me on to NovaColor and I became a groupie of this stuff. They a sell paint in containers of 4 oz. to 5 gallons and with complete consistency in color and viscosity. The stuff is like "butta" or sometimes like fine cream, depending on the color. So for you who go to Home Depot to get small pots mixed...I say...go to NovaColor and get the same size and get highly pigmented, brilliant color that can mix with each other and anything else acrylic for the same price at twice the spreadability and durability. I painted murals on the sides of my van while it was in the paint shop getting a new paint job. We cleared over the whole thing and were blown away at the intensity and the depth that the clear brought out in the paint. Preserved perfectly. Aaaaahhhhh...NovaColor...gotta try it, gotta love it!
Posted by Weston Pulley (Member # 10330) on :
Is there a Canadian distributor for Novacolor paint?
Posted by Jack Lindenberger (Member # 10772) on :
Bill, you are right seems like our old products that we have used for years with no problems have been cutting quality, but maintaining the same price or even more. Believe me always keep your eyes open for new products to improve our products for our customers. the letterheads is a great sounding board for new products. Keep your eyes & ears open there is so much information out there now!
My 2 cents worth for free!
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
Yes, I forgot to acknowledge Judy Grossman here, as it was she who turned us on to the paint. Thank you, Judy.
Those who used it at the Pontiac meet really liked it, and I kept hearing that (like Judy said) it spreads like "butta."
Jack, we have pow-wowed on paint performance many of times during your famous meets. I've got to think that it helped all in attendance come up with alternatives to keep quality a priority so that they can keep their customers.
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
I'll add my thanks here as well.
I've learned a lot and I hope to put this information to good use and I promise to share my experiences with it as well.
