I have a 3' X 5' HDU sign to mount to an iron gate/fence (it has 1/2" bars at 7" apart. I'm thinking of using Gorilla glue and mounting 2 strips of 1/4" X 5" X 60" aluminum on the back of the HDU. Do I need to router out a slot or can I just glue it to the back? Also, I'm thinking I can use some 1" X 4" X 3/16" strips(clamps) to secure the sign from the back of the bars by drilling holes and using some screws to pull the sign tight. I'm open to suggestions if there is a better way. Thanks
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
To my inexperienced mind, that sounds OK. From behind, it would look neater to have the aluminium rebated in, but thinking of moisture getting stuck, and the bars pressing on the hdu, I'd be inclined to let the Al. be proud of the HDU-...but perhaps a half-depth rebate (1/8") might be better.
A rebate will give the sign & brackets more strength to resist gravity.
(edited to fix a typo)
[ November 05, 2009, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Ian Stewart-Koster ]
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
I would route out slots so the aluminum was flush or like Ian said maybe an 1/8 proud. You can use a dovetail router bit and route some pockets in the back under the aluminum in an oval shape then epoxy in some hex head bolts so they are protruding through the aluminum. Then you could use some steel flats on the back side of the bars and bolt them down.
Posted by Joe Crumley (Member # 2307) on :
Bruce,
Using HDU on a gate need some consideration. I'm sure you realize this material will not flex. Like Dave suggests, it needs lots of support. Also HDU isn't good with contact wear.
I'd suggest using PVC. It's tougher and costs less too. 1" Centra or Komatex would be my choice.
Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
I'll second vote the PVC less expensive and more resistent to damage, if even 1" pvc was used it could take screws as long as the holes thru the bars were "lenient" and not tight for contactions
Posted by Joe Crumley (Member # 2307) on :
I'm using less and less HDU. Even if it was cheap there are serious limitations. As a router carving material it's hard to beat. But for cutting letters or substrate background it poses some serious problems.
With the advent of hardcoats even inexpensive eps foams are now a consideration.
I'm following the lead of Howard Industries and PeachTree with this kind of construction. This sign is for Highland Baptist Church which we constructed from a block of EPS, bead board foam. This keeps the weight down as well as the expense. Installation is a pleasure.
To make this type of sign requires a little re-thinking. After all, I'm from the old school where wood and steel was used for the under carriage. No longer are these materials necessary.
For some time I wanted to add some depth, dimension, to my ground signs. My old method required a wood super structure and expensive HDU to pull it off. I'm now setting a hot wire for my shapes. The only other equipment is a hopper gun, $15 at Harbor Freigh, and exterior stucco. PPG is now offering several stucco textures. This one is Sand Texture and the color is mixed in it. So there's no painting.
I've experimented with several subsurface hardcoats. At this time I'm not comfortable with the stucco by itself. So the experiments continue.
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
Nice looking job, Joe. I've had a lot of interest in these foam signs too, but I'm having a lot of trouble getting past the vandalism thing. A kid with a ball bat could wipe out one of these things easily.
That, I guess, is where the hardcoats come in, but are they hard enough to work in this case. And if not, how hard is this stuff to repair/patch? Or can it be?
The church sign....do the legs have an inner structure, or is the whole thing that foam? I guess I got gun-shy after seeing so many motels and strip mall buildings with spray stucco/dryvit type coatings, where someone punched a hole in it with their fist, or a shopping cart.
I love the concept; I just don't know about the "side effects".
[ November 06, 2009, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Dale Feicke ]
Posted by Joe Crumley (Member # 2307) on :
Thanks Dale,
I'm with you about vandalism and repair. That was also my concern when starting out. The finish texture coats have the color mixed in. Repair would be any more difficult that with a metal or HDU sign. Maybe much easier. A baseball will bounce right off one of these.
This type of sign concept is just begging for creative adjustments. My first attempt was to cut mdo for the font and back. Then sandwith the core with solid eps. The advantages are a tough front and back along with the 8" depth.
My second attempt was to use 1" HDU with routed copy for front and back. This allowed me to have very deliclate detail while maintaining the thickness.
Finally, I'm down to using the eps as the major component. I still use the router to build my details. Sometimes I use Extira for this step.
Hard Coating: My first attempts were with a concrete/stucco mixture using nilon threads as a binder. That took too much time and I lost too much detail. My seond attempt was to apply Styro Spray. It's eps friendly and designed as a hard coat. It's not very hard and flexes under pressure. I quickly gave up on that. My third effort was epoxy but that took too many coats, time consuming and too expensive.
I've finally found a reasonable solution and will post my findings in detail when I get some photo's to show the process. If anyone is interested. Once again I'm kind of out on a limb with this venture. I can't be the only guy doing this.
LEGS. I'm using 4" pvc pipes. They extend to the top and have a bottom cuff.
I know my description is sketchey. I'm starting a new sign next week and will show my step. I'm always up for suggestions. So your help is appreciated.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Thanks for the ideas & follow-up Joe: I'm all ears!
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
Thanks Joe,
Where do you buy this foam? How does it come? Sheets? Blocks?....
I've got some info somewhere about some commercially available hard coat; I'll see if I can find it. Oh...one of them was called PB Hardcoat, from Precision Board. Probably are more out there.
I was always gun-shy about putting any type of epoxy or glue-stuff on foam, becaue some of it will attack the foam. Guess you just have to experiment, huh?
[ November 07, 2009, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Dale Feicke ]
Posted by Graham Parsons (Member # 1129) on :
Joe,
Thanks for the info!
I too would be really interested in any further details - I have a couple of possible projects coming up!
Posted by Joe Crumley (Member # 2307) on :
Dale,
I had assumed beadboard, EPS foam, was in every large town. I'd check in the yellow pages under insulation. But don't use the Dow bule, yellow or pink foam. It won't work. There's something in it that resists topcoats. You want the 3lb, coffee cut, white cheap stuff.
There are two companyies here. They cut the foam from large blocks to any thickness. They also cut cornices, letters, or any shapes desired. A 8" letter 2" deep letter is about five dollars. They need a vector file for cutting.
Epoxy is good on Beadboard. Just don't thin it down.
Graham,
I have a couple of experiments under way. One is with Durhams Rockhard Putty. I wonder if you have down there. If you do let me know and we can do a duel test and let everyone know out results.
I posted earlier about StyroSpray. The major porblem I had it was too flexable. But is does provide a barrier coat. That will allow the use of any kind of solvent material on top, like fiberglass.
Keep up the good work.
Posted by Joe Crumley (Member # 2307) on :
Wooops,
I intended to post this photo previously.
It's a combination of Extira and beadboard. At that time, a couple of years ago, I was working against the inevitable separation crack where two dis-similar materials matched up. I called Sam Staffan for some advice and he recommended PB elastomeric texture coat. At that time I was was using a hopper gun to spray the concrete solution. That process is in the rear mirrow now. The reason being, concrete in thin layers will show cracks. I hate cracks.
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
I'm not sure I know what you're referring to as "beadboard", Joe. Is this like the old fashioned stuff they put on walls, with the seams every two inches or so?
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
No, bead board is the white styrofoam that crumbles into little round beads like the stuff they use to protect computers in the box, make floating docks, etc.
Here's a link explaining it http://univfoam.com/ Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
Joe and I are working on a final result that we can have total control of the makings and to be assured that the outcome will be long lasting.
He is working in one direction and I another but when we both achieve our goal I will bet they will almost be the same.
There are a lot of unique supplies out there just waiting to be used on the right sign in the right location.
