Mr. Patel, a really nice guy, comes in, wants some panformed faces and wants a discount....
"can you do any better?" "I'm poor" "I spent all my money" "business is slow" "can you give me something for free" "I tell other Indian people..." "I will buy another sign if you give me handicap signs"
I've had four indian customers, three of which bought signs. Two nearly drove me crazy harping on about the price but, I have to be fair: another indian customer I had, ordered a sign and never said a word about the price.
Anyway, are your prices ever negotiable? How do you deal with folks who try to price haggle?
[ October 23, 2009, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
I hate to be stereotypical, but I've done quite a bit of work for an Indian family over here that owns several brand-name and no-name motels.... same story.... we poor... no money.... I know someone who'll come down from Atlanta and do it for less... any cheaper options... etc. etc. (last name of Patel... imagine that.)
Meanwhile, his five kids (who work for these motels that are so broke) drive Lexus and Mercedes coupes and Hummers...
I already know the story, so I automatically add a nice amount that I can take back off for him to make him happy. I've found the final price really doesn't mean a lot to him, it's the fact he's getting a discount that gets him all jolly.....
Really nice man also, though... (his kids... not so much.)
Posted by Rene Giroux (Member # 4980) on :
Double your price and tell him it's 2for1 week !
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Give'm a free bottle of Vanilla extract with every sign Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
And that would be for?
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Who was it said,
Sign guy: The price of the sign is $800.00
Customer: Oh wow, that's alot. Can't you do any better?
Sign guy: Sure, $950.00
Posted by Michael Boone (Member # 308) on :
customer....Why is your price so high?
answer....Because theres lots of stuff I wanna buy
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
That tribe is tough to do business with.
Posted by Ken Henry (Member # 598) on :
Sir: I realize that in your cultural background, haggling price is quite normal, and indeed, expected. However, this is a different culture, where prices are set and established to provide fair value for the price asked.
It's much like going to a restaurant with a solid reputation for good food. The server provides you with a menu, with that establishment's prices for the various entrees, appetizers and drinks available. Should you find the fare more expensive than you expected, your options are to select something more in line with your budget, or to patronize a different establishment. However, don't expect a full course steak dinner, for the price of a Big Mac.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
If they have an accent....be prepared to haggle! From somewher around Italy and going East all the way to Japan...it is expected and also a respected tradition.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
I like Ken's answer. Frankly, I don't care what the customs in their home country are... they are now in this country & it is quite disrespectful and insulting to be accused of overpricing by their insisting on haggling.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
The last time I did a job in that vicinity and he wanted me to better my price, I just asked him which letters he didn't want painted...
and it was an Indian Restaurant with a fixed-price menu...
In the end, I did the sign, for the original price, and got a nice meal thrown in for the installation.
Posted by Mike Faig (Member # 6104) on :
Has anyone here ever paid the sticker price for an automobile?
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
In general for me: All the INDIAN clients I know have been very nice, and cheap. The middle easterners have been the most unreasonable. The GREEKS have been tough negotiators. And, the worst for me is always orientals because I can't understand what the heck they say.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
I have a sign on my counter: HAGGLING WILL NOT BE TOLERATED So far, it's worked. On the phone, not so much. Love....Jill
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Their food is good.
Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :
Hey. This is nuts, Letterheads! Whether your customers are from here or there, their nationality and ethnicity has NO bearing on price. Here, we are all from different ethnic backgrounds. This is the modern world. We got to respect everyone. Let us stop this 'racisim' as it just makes us look weak. As John Lennon said "it is a revolution for minds that do not hate."
Every client will try to negotiate, if they think you are some rich sign maker who discounts. They look around and see your fantastic reputation. They see your success. They think we are all kazillionaires living the rich life, making signs. Just smile and tell them they look prosperous and smart enough to be hiring you. Ask them about their families. Treat them like you want to be their professional resource. Then tell them the price. Be firm without holding some ancient grudge or prejudice that they might not be from a society as 'perfect' as ours!
When anyone pounds you for a discount, just smile and ask them what other work they have ready to order. "We do some discounting for large volume orders." Ask them about the 'look' they want and how concerned that are about making them a satisfied customer. You just have to take control of the selling situation and never let your predjudices trip you up. If they walk, so do all who think buying creative services is a commodity. You just have to emphasize great service, creativity and genuine value and STAY AWAY from petty racial stereotyping!
It is like walking ionto a bear cage with a pistol and a pocket full of bullets. You got to rember to load the pistol and have your selling questions and objection nullifiers in your barrel, before you waltz in there.
"Mr. Client, let me ask you a simple question....You obviously are needing some sign work....I do sometimes offer some discounting on volume orders. What other sign projects do you have around there that I can HELP you with?"
Sorry to be on a soap box about this, but I am proud as the dickens to be in a world where there is less and less racial baloney! We just have to love everyone!
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Why? I abuse everyone equally!
Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :
Si, you have a very fine and high rate of recidivison, just like my repeat offenders that I call my Best Customers! Equality, Liberty and Fraternization? Ain't that why they used the Guilotine? Gotta love some levity when this all get so serious!
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
Preston, I didn't mean what I said in a bad way. To me, it is more of a crime to totally deny a person's race of certain attributes, than it is to admit they have them. I belive racism is disliking or disrespecting another person just because of their race, without any other valid reason whatsoever. All this fear of pointing out traits or trends of a group of people because of ethnicity is political correctness gone nuts....
If a person here said "Our school is lucky to have several Japanese students... they study hard, are very good academically, and raise the bar for the rest of the kids"... no one would have a problem with it.... however, if it's a little on the negative side (as perceived by us, Indian people probably wouldn't be offended to be stereotyped as hagglers) someone always whips out the racism card.
Also, I could say that "Every realtor I deal with tries to haggle me down on the prices" and we'd have a discussion about that group of people and how to deal with them. Nothing would be said about it somehow being 'wrong'. But if that group of people happens to be from a certain area of the world that has a different culture, then suddenly it's off limits.
If Americans were constantly touring some east Indian town and leaving trash in the streets after their visit..... and those towns-people said... "These damn Americans are ruining our town".... that is not racism, it's just the way it is. It would not offend me and I'd say it's just pointing out the obvious.
So therefore, when my little black-haired motel-owning friend orders stuff from me, I will continue to pre-figure in his eventual discount... which is way easier than explaining about higher quality, volume, principles, taking control of the sale, etc. and he leaves very happy he talked me down on the price.....
Okay... now you can get back on your soap-box and preach to me about not causing trouble in sign forums.... hehe....
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
I do work for lots of people from everywhere as many of us do, but since I'm involved in a very diverse community, I encounter this everyday. I deal with it like this......
Them: How much? Me: (smile)$10,000,000 Them: haha Brother, ok just give me good price, ok? Me: I'll give you my best price (thinking I want $450 or so) I say, $535 Them: Can you give me a better price, brother? I'm opening 4 more stores/I'm going to send you business etc. etc. Me: (smiling) You're trying to run me out of business? (Joking) Ok, Ok..I can drop it to $485 for you, this time, but let me make something, ok? Them: You can do $400, just this time. Me: $450 last price, let's get it done, I gotta go. (then I hand them the quote to sign) Then we sit and drink tea, they feed me. I do the design on my laptop while I'm there, get the approval on the design and move on. I used to live in the Middle East, I know how they haggle, It's an art to them. If you don't haggle with them even when you're the buyer they get all frazzled. It's like they want to be talked down. I don't mind. It's fun. I deal with Americans totally differently. And americanized middle easterners indians etc. I treat them just like Americans. You gotta know who you're dealing with. Me:
Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :
Dawud, You got the messgae, Bro. It is all about love thy neighbor. Keep on being Dawud! Preston McCall www.prestonmccall.com Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
This goes right into on of the 4P's in marketing..
The first one is Profile.
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
quote:Originally posted by Preston McCall: Whether your customers are from here or there, their nationality and ethnicity has NO bearing on price.
quote:Originally posted by Dawud Shaheed: I used to live in the Middle East, I know how they haggle, It's an art to them. If you don't haggle with them even when you're the buyer they get all frazzled. It's like they want to be talked down. I don't mind. It's fun. I deal with Americans totally differently. And americanized middle easterners indians etc. I treat them just like Americans. You gotta know who you're dealing with.
quote:Originally posted by Preston McCall: Dawud, You got the messgae, Bro. It is all about love thy neighbor. Keep on being Dawud!
Preston, I don't get it at all.
So you call me a racist for stereotyping a group of customers that I've had the SAME experience with every time....
Then Dawud pipes up and says EXACTLY the same thing I do... he operates the same way with people he knows will want to haggle, treats his customers differently from each other according to how he has them profiled.... and you give him a big pat on the back.
Ok... I'm leaving this thread now before I become even more confused.
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hey Preston,
I'm not looking to start am argument, but, dealing with certain nationalities in a certain way has less to do with race and more to do with culture. For example, a firm handshake in some cultures is considered a sign of aggression.
Since I started in this industry nearly 20 years ago, I've operated in culturally diverse communities. With this experience, I've learned that it’s good business to adapt and respect the culture of my clients.
It’s a simple fact that, in many cultures, haggling or negotiations are just (an important) part of doing business. And, as a business owner who is knowledgeable and understanding of the client’s way of doing business, I should be prepared to negotiate with the buyer. By doing this, I will more likely be the successor and awarded the work.
Now, especially with the economy being what it is, I am ready and willing to negotiate with any buyer, regardless of ethnicity. And, to insure that I remain profitable, I plan my quotes accordingly.
As America becomes more diverse and politically correct, business owners should and are learning to adapt to new ways of doing business on a "global scale" to remain profitable. Those who don't adapt are either lucky or probably won't be around much longer.
Havin’ fun,
Checkers
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Oh, and Mike F, You can't compare signs to a car dealership or a retail operation. Can you walk into to another sign company or any retail operation and choose from a selection of "Signs On Time" signs?
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
I know it stereotyping but when you have quoted and dealt with maybe 10 of these folks, you just dont wanna deal with them anymore. just finished with 2 at local mall wasted my time and energy, Im done with these folks, but i know where to send them...is that ok pat or have you had enough?
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
I use Ken Henry's method. I'm firm, yet polite. I use to hit them with a smatazz answer but I quit that long ago. I'm much mellower now
So it's a custom in their country to haggle. Do we start adopting all their customs no matter how unpleasant?
Excuse me , I have to go slit a goats throat.
Posted by Ken Henry (Member # 598) on :
Folks from different cultural backgrounds are a fact of life. However, they chose to immigrate to a land with different cultural values, and a different way of doing commerce. Is it reasonable to expect the citizens in land of destination to change their customs and practices to do business with them in the manner to which they've been conditioned and raised, or is it more reasonable to expect the new arrival to adapt and make the necessary changes to their Modus Opporendi?
The fact is that a very conscious choice was made, and it probably had to do with the expectation that they could attain a higher standard of living by immigrating.If the culture and values of the land left behind wasn't working to their satisfaction, to the point of consciously choosing to leave it all behind, then why make the attempt to cling to that culture in their new surroundings ? I'd guess that it's an attempt to have things both ways, and mostly to their exclusive benefit.
It's sheer hippocracy for for a restauranteer to order a "fixed price menu " and want to haggle over the cost of that item.
Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :
Gawd. I really did not mean to stir up all of this. Sorry if I offended you John, as it was not my intent, but more that I just want to say that we should strive to be stronger and not weaker from our experiences. Apologies to all who think I am an anti-racist and a soap boxer.
I have some 250 new car dealers as clients. These guys are all millionaires and professional negotiators, by trade. I have few little guys who need some simple sign, but do have a few who call from time to time. A Nail Salon... a Golf Shop...a strip mall shop who needs some simple window. I generally always give them the same courtesy as the big guys and figure everyone wants to haggle about price. I find mentioning that I am very busy and can work them in sometime soon gets them over that price issue. I turn price into an issue of 'when'. Most want their imaginative marketing idea up at once. If I offer to push my regular projects back a day or so and get their little project done that day, they almost always go right along with my price. It is more about taking control of the selling situation, than negotiating some arbitrary figure of money. What I have seen is that the rule is, if a client is a price buster, then they are also an impulsive buyer and want things done fast. Take advantage of that and they will give you the dough.
Everyone wants a deal.
"If I could, would you?"
"What I understand is that if I do this for X, today, you will pay me today...and you will throw in a couple of those ____ for free and refer me some more customers?"
"Mr. Client. I value your business very much. You are smart to think of having me do this. For your price I will get you done today, but will have to drop off the extra tag with your website and phone. What I am giving you for this reduced price is just _________. Is that agreeable to you?"
"OK. I am glad to do your project, but I need you to get me some more work from your friends. Is that agreeable?"
Then there is the old, "You got to be kidding. You think I would do this for that measely offer? Are you totally stupid? Have you no sense of respect for my skill and talent. Are you trying to offend me and take advantage of my skills. You want to pay peanuts, so go hire a monkey, you moron..." On second thought, better reserve that one for some client like me, who has a big ego and will be easily insulted. Selling is all just a big fun game!
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Perkins:
Excuse me , I have to go slit a goats throat.
That's a very good survival skill to learn. I'm glad people still kill their own animals to eat these days where kids in our "Walmart Supercenter" generation think meat is just another packaged item like cookie dough or something. I bought a deep freezer so when I kill my own animals I'll have a place to put the meat. Don't worry George...If we were ever trapped in the woods together, I'd share the goat steaks from my freshly killed goat with you. Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
...Preston, you don't need to apologize for being an "anti racist". That's a good thing.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Being a racist isn't what's even happening here. Being discriminating is, and that's a good thing.
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
I believe in a little bit of discrimination when it's advantageous for the common good of my bottom line. Not mentioning any names, but there's a certain demographic of people that account for approximately ALL of my deadbeat non-paying excuse having customers. You think that doesn't affect how I deal with them? Racist isn't the issue I don't think. Sure some of us here are probably more racist than others, but some peoples kids grow up and just do NOT know how to behave.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
I learn a lot from reading all the posts and replies here in Letterville. Ken Henry's
quote:Folks from different cultural backgrounds are a fact of life
I understand that from living in TO years back as well as my upbringing in NY.
I wish that were true where I now live as I've always said that there should be more diversity here as living in white america doesn't always bring a smile to my face because money doesn't change hands as quickly as it had in places I've been which had more diversity.
Does anyone understand my dilemma? I once had a great attitude but a bad accent which made it hard for me to deal with persons who hadn't the education to decipher accent and attitude.
Oh well, I'm retired now Posted by Carl Wood (Member # 1223) on :
I usually give 'em the "Preacher's Discount". . .add 20%, then subtract 10%.
Posted by Tim Barrow (Member # 576) on :
I don't know about anyone else but I was taught as an apprentice sign painter that you can always lower your prices but its hard as hell to raise them once negotiations have begun so I always offer up a price that is high expecting every possible client the chance to haggle and still come out ahead,.but I have to admit its nice when someone says ok to a price I know is high without haggleing,.....it also gives me the opportunity to make all my customers think they are special when I give them a "deal". The best advice ever given to me was by an old man name of "Punch" who said that there was more money made in this business with a sharp pencil than any other tool.
Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on :
I just say...It's probably to pricey for you, and there are others who dance to that music. Go see, them!
Jack
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
Dave Sherby, That's one from me.. It's one of my favorite sayings. Been using it for years.
Plus I'm an equal opportunity racist. I hate everyone the same.
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
quote:Originally posted by William DeBekker: ........Plus I'm an equal opportunity racist. I hate everyone the same.
HAHAHAHAHA! Bill, You almost made me spit coffee on my monitor.
But in all seriousness; It's all about culture, not race, and I enjoy interacting with people of different races and cultures. So, like I said, Out of three Indian customers, two wanted to haggle, the other one never said a word about the price. Maybe he was raised in another province or home environment where they don't haggle so much? Anyway, it's not that big of a deal; only when I went back to work and my wife was writing out the invoice, she said this customer tried to coerce HER into reducing the price I had set.
But I guess my prices must be fair; he's been a repeat customer three times and says he'll be back again.
Posted by Kevin Mann (Member # 7161) on :
"Things always get ugly when money is on the table" from Civil Action
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
JQP after getting a price.....
"Can you do any better than that?"
Me "So, you want a deal?"
JQP "Ya."
Me "OK, so what do you have to deal with?"
JQP " Huh?"
Me "Well, you don't want to pay that much money so what do you have that I want to make up the difference?"
I'm easy....lol
OR
"So you want 20% off???? OK, go out the door and come back in and I'll take 20% off for you."
Of course, if they don't get it right away, when they come back, the price is 25% higher.........I'm just trying to be helpfull.....honest I AM!
Joe,
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[For Your Information]](graemlins/fyi.gif)
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
Bill, You almost made me spit coffee on my monitor.