I started using a PC in 1990 and have always gone with a PC and only in 07 did I receive my first MAC as a present, it was a powerbook and I eventually gave it to my nephews son for collage because I still use a PC laptop as my main toy. Here it is 09 and I have a dual core G5 desktop with a 26" monitor which I have been using for music storage and occasional usage for the past 2 years. But heres where it gets interesting.
I just realized ( slow learner ) that this is a phenomenal piece of equipment and is so simple to operate once I put my mind to work and trying to learn the terminology which MAC has written. Names like airport, kaos box and dashboard become so simple and adding programs like the wireless keyboard and mouse after figuring out how the CD opens because there isn't a button that could screw up like a PC has is such an easy task. The power is like a race car and the sound system can be heard wherever am in the house. Oh and I forgot to mention that all the programs are directly in front of me at all times no matter where or what I'm doing, just point the mouse down an∂ everything comes up. totally unreal, wow
I do have several things I have to work out like hooking up a microphone as the one I have from my PC laptop doesn't work on the MAC as its connector is too loose and from what I've read, it may need a powered microphone. I was at a MAC dude's place today and he said he never heard of this, oh well eventually I will get that taken care of as I like using Skype. This MAC belonged to my nephew who passed on in the beginning of 07
My only wish was that I would have started out with a MAC to begin with and maybe it would have been much simpler to ease my way through this world of technology in terminology that is more of what I am used to than to have played games with mickey mouse programs which crashed in my world many times.
I will continue using this MAC not only for my enjoyment but for home security as well and hopefully can get some tips along the way. I probably need a newer version of the mac book for real dummies as I have a problem where I can read something but not put it into proper perspective unless I could hear it verbally.
Anyway, that's all I wanted to say beside the fact that I love the MAC.
[ August 24, 2009, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: Joey Madden ]
Posted by Gerald Lauze' (Member # 6443) on :
I just bought a used Mac Mini for the kids. I, too, am a PC guy. When I fired up the Mac for the first time, I felt like I had taken a trip in a time machine to the future 'cause no PC looks, feels or runs like that. That said I have just upgraded most of my shop computers to XP..he he so I have been in the dark ages for many many years. I thought I'd wait for it to stabilize Many of my programs are not available for MAC so I'll always have a PC.
My first computer was a UNIX based machine in 95 and it cost me $11000..now it's a door stop.
Have fun with the MAC
Posted by Kevin Gaffney (Member # 4240) on :
Pc guy here for nineteen years. Can't wait to make the switch to apple. My conversion began with the iphone. Unfortunately, with the hard times we live in, I may have to wait a lot longer for my mac. One thing is for sure, although a couple of my pc's are beginning to show their age, I will not be rushing out to replace them with a dell offering or anything similar, and will never buy another pc.
Posted by Ted Turner (Member # 2799) on :
Atta Boy Joey! I have been using Mac for about 8 years. You always find another trick thing that these things can do. I do the majority of design in Illustrator, use a bit of Photoshop, and only use my PC to plot thru Flexi. Once ya go Mac, ya never go back!
Posted by Ted Turner (Member # 2799) on :
Not sure why this posts twice...
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
You're on a Mac.
.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Glenn!!!
And the computer wars continue!!! Posted by Gerald Lauze' (Member # 6443) on :
Glen...
I actually LOL'd
G
Posted by Curt Stenz (Member # 82) on :
Congratulations Joey. You might find these sites interesting on occasion.
Well, it's about time people are seeing the light!
I've been a Mac user since 1984 (okay, givin' my age away now), and you don't know what I think 'PC' stands for. I certainly don't want to offend anyone, but when you start on a Mac, it's pretty hard to use a PC, as there are so many more steps to do what a Mac can do in very few. They didn't have Mac drivers for Flexi when I started. Congrats new Mac lovers!! I'll be upgrading mine soon, that will make lucky 13 for me.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
mac for years... then PC... the infection didn't take... I don't gloat or advertise for either, they have all worked, neither took extra steps, and both have made me money without virus infections.. 99% PC though
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Question for Mac users.....
From a business perspective, did the more expensive Mac make you a dollar more than a PC?
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Went from using nothing but PC's to trying a Mac laptop....
I'll get a PC next time, most likely.
To me, the Mac is somewhat eccentric, and NOT as user friendly as a PC. It's a quirky thing now that the excitement of *buying a Mac* has worn off.
I like the way You create a file tree on a PC much better than the Mac...
Some programs on a Mac don't seem to allow you to *click* a button to make the program fill the entire screen, which is simply done on a pc...and I have to physically drag a corner of the application with my cursor to fill the screen - weird!
Maybe I just haven't learned the Mac well enough yet, but since it's my laptop, I don't use it as frequently as my desktop, so naturally I haven't focused on it to the extent I do my main work machine.
Which brings me to another point: Whether you use a Mac or a PC, I think it's probably better to stick with ONE format, rather than trying to switch between two and remember the idiosyncrasies of both. The same problem arises when switching between Illustrator and CorelDraw....it's too easy to get a brain fart as you try to do something in one program which is done a little differently in the other...get's confusing some times.
Oh..and then there's this:
Mac laptop = $2,800 Dell (loaded) Studio PC Laptop = $1,200 (just bought for my kid)
The Dell has more quality components than the Mac too.
I will say that I like the slimness and durability of the Mac aluminum cased laptop better though.
It's neat, but I guess I'm more comfortable with how the PC works...now that the 'wow' factor of opening up the Mac has worn off.
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
It's funny how people still defend PC's. PC stands for peice-a chit.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Niiiice ... Posted by Mr Curtis Dalton (Member # 7547) on :
Glenn, the "more expensive Mac" made the feeling of going to work much better. That makes a big difference on how much work you get done at the end of the day.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Ahh, well, our internet PC died last week. It was a P3-600mhz - a dinosaur in today's terms, but it had had a good innings. It did all we asked of it, & did it fine.
I replaced it with a 2nd hand p4-2600 that cost all of $35 at an auction house.
I'll say 'good value' to both deals!
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Curtis,
So in other words feeling better about a more expensive piece of equipment translates into an unquantifiable increase in productivity?
Hmmm...I can get that by just changing radio stations.
[ August 25, 2009, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by Mr Curtis Dalton (Member # 7547) on :
hahaha, Glenn, you are a funny guy. it's simple dude, you like PC, so you enjoy working with one. I like Mac, so I enjoy working with one. That's how good business works. If you start to "nickel & dime" your equipment and that's how you decide between Mac & PC... you're doing the wrong thing. Sometimes I do that with "No Name" mac n' cheese. I get the same amount on my plate, but it leaves a bad taste. That hardly happens with Kraft.
Posted by Paul Luszcz (Member # 4042) on :
Glenn,
Reading your many posts of late, I'm surprised you don't see the profit potential of a piece of equipment that works better, faster and easier, requires less maintenance, produces more accurate color, does not require anti virus software, spyware, ad aware, and all that other junk that we accept as normal for a PC. (Yes, I use both, because my bookkeeping software is a holdover from my pre-Mac days.) You'll never hear of a Mac user "down grading" their OS for an extra $100!
My G5 is five years old and still works beautifully. A new high end Mac Pro will cost $2600. A comparable PC is about $1200. $1400/5 years is $6/week.
I have to save 10 minutes a week to pay for that, or ruin one less print a month.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Betcha this one won't last long (typed on my PC - although I could have also done it on my Mac).
I'm waiting to see if this evolves into statistics which find that Mac users are 30% more likely to develop herpes, while PC users are 25% more likely to develop Gonorrhea.
Hey, I just realized something interesting: Joey Madden started the past two controversial posts and then largely disappeared while everyone drug their canons up to the front lines.... Are you up to some mishief Joey? Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
Things that make you go hmmmmmmm.....
Why do all you Mac people talk about the different ways to run 'Windows' on your systems? I sure as heck don't hear about PC users trying to figure out how to run OS X on their computers......
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
Before I was turned to the dark side, I too, believed that the "fruit based substitute for a real computer" was simply an overpriced, high-tech toy that only the rich and snobby elitists could justify owning- much like an exotic sports car, or an extensive wine collection, or Dan's MultiCam...
After many years of wandering through the wilderness of personal computers, I finally got a glimpse of the promised land. While shopping for a new computer system, like I had blindly done many other times, A sense of enlightenment covered me, and the dark shroud of doom and gloom was slowly lifted from my eyes as I actually compared apples to... other fruit (sorry, bad pun)
I found that high performance laptops cost about the same when you have to add extra bells and whistles and RAM and memory and extra drives and aluminum cases etc... just to match one of the fruits right out of the box. hmmmm
I found that by the time you spend extra money on larger monitors and sound cards and such, you can get a huge system already working for the same money. hmmmm
I found that there is a better, faster, safer, more efficient operating system that is so powerful, it can actually run the "other" operating system from inside itself and provide two computers for the price of one. hmmmm
I found out that I don't have to waste any more precious time trying to be a part time computer geek or take any more classes at ITT Tech just to figure out how to install some irritating driver that has been rebuilt 37 times in the last month and still doesn't work. hmmmm
No more countless hours and fistfuls of hair searching and downloading the latest spyware, adware, malware, silverware, underwear, whatever kind of ware... just to make a box of wire and solder turn on to allow me to check my email. Just a simple box that has one button and when it is turned on, it WORKS. EVERYTIME. hmmmmm
Sure, there was a small learning curve when I switched- I had to adjust my thinking a little- instead of 45 clicks to email a photo to someone, I had to learn that I just had to click on the photo and drop it in the email program. Or that instead of opening 37 different file trees to find something, all of my files were visible right on the desktop, or I could just type a "search" and find it instantly- there were many other things that I had to adjust, but the simplicity has really caused me to become lazy when it comes to working on the computer.
One final thought: does it not bother any PC users when they use advertising slogans like: "I'm 4 years old and I'm a PC"- I've seen a lot of 4 year olds, and most are still eating crayons and are mesmerized by "Barney". Just saying...
Now let's move on to some real hot topic debates- like Creationism -vs- Evolution, Republicans -vs- Democrats, CorelDRAW -vs Illustrator, Ford -vs- Chevy, mahl stick -vs- handover, paint -vs- quicky sticky, brushscript -vs- old english...
PS- "I'm 41 years old and I'm a Mac!" (Despite my Mac bigot tendencies, my bald head gives away the fact that I also use PCs on a regular basis.)
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
and so Todd,
In the beginning of 2007 age 64, I didn't want to work as much and dropped a couple of my accounts to help my family as well as take care of some loose ends in my world as back then I foreseen the economy change during the Bush administration and wondered why I should pay for my 06 Scion which I owed around eight grand on. So it was then that I decided that the tools I needed would have to be of a value in which they wouldn't cost me more money in the long haul. I sold my Scion XB for 12 grand which got 30 mpg but cost me $300 a month and I actually made money on it because I paid less then 12 for it a year before. While down in L.A. I emptied a storage unit I had for years and uncovered my lowered, bilstein equipped 1989 Mercedes 300CE coupe' ( same car Patrick Swayze had in Road House ) which has leather, sunroof and all the creature features of most luxury cars of today and yet cruises at much higher speeds, corners like a Mercedes and still gets 27mpg but has been paid for years back. I knew that whatever I needed for the coming economy would put me into a different situation and therefore drastic changes would have to be made that wouldn't actually change my lifestyle.
Like I tell everyone who asks, I have everything money could buy and everything I have is paid for and no longer do I want
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Here we go again. It really boils down to what you are used to. Both PC people and Mac people defend the reasons for their decision of which platform to purchase.
I grew up on Macs. I'm used to them and I love their operating system. I'm not into gaming, and everything I need except for ArtCam and Estimate is available for the Mac. This is why I run Windows on my Mac, for ArtCam, Quickbooks, and Estimate.
5 years ago I bought a PC because I wanted to switch to Quickbooks for Windows. The Mac version at the time did not have integrated payroll. The payroll portion was an add on from a different company that didn't work well.
Anyway, here we are 5 years later and the Dell PC is dying. The repair tech said the machine is designed for about 5 years of use. Well they planned the obsolescence well. I've already replaced the hard drive once, had to upgrade the video card (needed bigger one for 3D modeling) and the power supply (too small for bigger hard drive and Wacom tablet), have bought a slew of anti virus software, and spent a lot of time maintaining the PC.
So yes Glen, my Macs are more productive and don't end up costing me as much more as you'd like to think. No Anti virus software to buy, load, run, and my 8 year old Mac is still running the plotter without having to put a nickle into it. All of my old Macs still run great and all of them ran for at least 8 years before I bought another one.
A couple other things, Apple OS - $129.... Apple has always had one OS that would do everything, no home, business, ultimate, or pro versions. And they have an upgrade coming out. $29!!! Ever see Microsoft run those kind of prices?
And Adobe Illustrator, which is my program of choice, runs much smoother on my Mac. I've tried everything suggested here on this board and the mouse on my Mac, in Illustrator, just runs so much smoother than on the PC.
Edit: Oh... and what Michael said. He said it so much better and so much funnier than I ever could.
[ August 25, 2009, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Dave Sherby ]
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
"I sure as heck don't hear about PC users trying to figure out how to run OS X on their computers......"
Jon- that is a great point. I never thought about that, but I would suspect that when one works so hard just to get one operating system working correctly, the mere thought of running 2 is unthinkable.
Plus- I think that OS X is Linux based, too many issues with the Windows platform to allow it operate the way it was designed.
Gotta run, my shop PC just decided that it didn't want to play nice with Corel X3 and just randomly deleted some of the registry files or something like that- guess I might have to enroll at ITT Tech after all.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Well, I could toast my bread by simply placing it on top of my pc laptop it got so hot...
I will say this: My MacBook Pro stays pretty cool considering I don't see any major vent/fans on it...I guess it blows out a skinny slot at the back of the computer...but it's sooo thin that it really is quite amazing that it doesn't overheat.
I guess I'm kinda like Doug... I don't hate either. I know the Mac is a solid system, yet I kinda like windows better - - but admittedly because I'm more familiar with it.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Curtis, I'm just teasing. Its fun razz'n Mac users. They're such a sensitive bunch.
********
Just a few observations....
I've had Macs before. Can't say I'm been all that impressed. Some of the cutesy stuff is fun for about 5 minutes, but after that it gets annoying.
I think what started turning me off on Macs is when a local printer called me needing help with his Mac. The 3.5" floppy had died. I figured no big deal. I've replaced them on PCs easily costing me no more than $35 tops. Anyhow, we pulled the case off his Mac to get the drive out. Couldn't do it. It was soldered into the system. The printer called the nearest Apple repair center 50 miles away. They wanted $600 to fix it.
Then the iMacs came out. One of my employees bought one for $1200 and just bragged about how cool it was. Then the built-in DVD drive failed under warranty. So she packed it up and sent it off. It was two weeks before she got it back. Then the monitor died. It was gone for another two weeks. Within 2 years it was just a paperweight.
Same thing happened to an acquaintance of mine. Only his monitor died twice within a year's time.
Stuff like this is one reason why I'm not a big fan of all-in-one machines of any type or brand.
As for speed and functionality, I'm just as productive on one as I am the other. At the moment I'm using a PC with a quad-core, 8 gigs of ram and a 64bit OS for less than a $1000. I run PS-cs4 at the same time with CorelX4 while jamm'n to some Andrés Segovia and the computer doesn't blink.
Needed to add a new HD storage recently so I drove down to the local Best Buy and got an internal 1T hard drive for $100. Dropped it into the bay and was ready to roll. I really don't like having all of these USB devices with their cords all hanging out every which way. External HDs don't seem to have a good track record all though the two that I own have done well.
For me the ease of use is about the same between the two OS. I do like navigating for files in Windows better than I do Mac. But I think the main thing for me is that if anything goes wrong, my down time on a PC is going to be less than on a Mac and its something I can fix on my own rather easily.
But anyway that's just me.
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
Back in the early 90's I returned to college to earn an Industrial Design Degree. We had a class which required us to do some word processing so we had an intro to the computer training session. Now the library at the time had a bank of PC's in one area and the newfangled Apple Mac computers in another room. The teacher said we could use either one but she only showed us how to run a PC. So she took us into the PC area and showed us how to type in some crazy characters that would swith the machine from DOS to Windows I think. I was so confused with the whole semi-colon backslash commands I didn't know what to hell she was talking about? She said there was some program on the Mac that showed you how to use them if we were interested.
So, I walked over to the Mac and it had an onscreen program that went through and explained the mouse and how to drag and drop stuff. Then it explained how the hard drive was like a file cabinet and it was all very simple to understand and use. GUI heaven.
A little bit later I found myself in my first Graphic Design class and the lab next to it was running only Mac's using illustrator, photoshop, pagemaker, and QuarkXpress.
So the Mac was easier to use (for me) at that time and if I was to do any serious Graphic Design work (and wanted to pass the class)I needed to learn the Mac OS and Adobe stuff.
At the same time I was working my way through college in a sign shop which used PC's, Corel,Signlab I think, and it always seemed clunky and over-technical. Oh and the marvel that was the Gerber IV-B!
I bought my first Mac back in 1993 and have been using them ever since. I had a laptop that the hard drive crapped out on but I believed that was from being dropped at one point. Other than that not many problems. And I too do not enjoy fixing or working on computers and all that goes with virus prevention! I'd rather be sniffing fumes!
I use PC's with XP (no talk of upgrading to whatever they are trying to sell these days!)at work and can't understand how anyone can think it's easier to find stuff on a PC. We have a large network and I can't find anything on the whole G F Z drives?? My 1 year old HP desktop is already prompting I/O disc errors on restarts. The tech guys said it might need to be replaced!
Currently, I am running a pre-intel mac laptop at home and haven't seen the need to upgrade to a machine that will run windows. If I were doing more 3D work maybe?
Oh, I did work at a rapid prototyping shop for 3 years and we did a lot of prototypes for Compaq computers at the time. I sat in on a lot of crash and burn sessions with the engineers trying to make the latest greatest hardware fit inside the case of a laptop and desktop. Tossing last minute changes together into a unit and hoping it all works together....what a cluster!
have fun with your Mac Joey.....welcome to the Jungle.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Glenn Taylor: [QB] Curtis, I'm just teasing. Its fun razz'n Mac users. They're such a sensitive bunch.
********
Mac users aren't a sensitive bunch, we're more like missionaries but the natives just don't want to see the light.
Actually what you PeeCee users don't know is we're actually chuckling rather profusely when we see all the posts about what you have to do for security, and all the complaints about, "my PC doesn't see my hardware, I lost my root commands, where do you get drivers for everything".
It's a good thing that you can quickly get parts for PC's. You need them a lot.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
I agree Dave, its like looking for parts for your Chevy, the salvage yards are full of them.
I understand the dilemma perfectly
PC's are like string, every YoYo gotta have one
BTW, I also have a Chevy and a PC but also a Mercedes and a MAC
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
at Why Macs suck. The first 3/4 of that video was describing my DELL to a T. I think that guy got his computers mixed up.
The bike vs. crotch rocket is just plain ridiculous. You complained about the BS in the health care post and then you post that? See Curtis' post. Yeah... your PC Intel dual quad core is soooooo much faster than Apples Intel dual quad core. And not customizeable? Glen, you better go look at Apples website. Slide out tray for up to 32 GB of memory, 4 hard drive bays for up to 4TB of storage. 4 PCI express expansion slots, add hard drives with no cables or connectors, just slide into the bay, and no making slave drives & primary drives. Geez, the list goes on but the natives just won't listen. Time to rest and get some Chinese.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
[ August 25, 2009, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Again Glenn, get with it. I'm using a Logitech wireless laser mouse on my Mac and all the features on my 4 button mouse work the same as on my Dell. No, wait, better on my Mac than on my Dell. Example, I click the left side button and all my open windows show up at once on my desktop. Then I just click on the Window I want to the front. Better than that useless zoom feature on the PC. And when I plugged in the mouse on the Mac it just worked right from the get go. Had to load drivers (love those drivers...NOT!!!) on the PC.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
Macs use drivers as well. I have wrestled with a Mac for hours, trying to get a printer to work. When you have the right drivers, on the Mac or PC, the hardware works. It's not magic.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
All Your WDEF Are Belong To Us.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
That surprises me Russ. Every printer I've bought worked upon plug in. I know they all have drivers. Apple preloads most of the popular ones so you don't have to. Plug & play has alwasy been a Mac staple.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Dave - they do have drivers... I had a problem similar to Russ involving a printer... finally figured out that my NEW printer didn't have a driver for Mac's NEW OS yet.... They finally got one, and let me tell you it was a mother trying to get it installed vs a typical pc driver install. But it did finally work.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
I must be unlucky, because I have run into plenty of problems with the Macs I have owned. I had an iMac that couldn't seem to finish a movie without the DVD player software quitting in the middle. If there were any scratches at all, it wasn't going to work. I could play the same DVD on my Dell PC and have no problem. I never did get my Epson printer to print to CDs from the Mac. The rest of the features worked, but not that one. I spent hours with no satisfaction. With the PC it works easily.
That has been my contention all along: the Mac is just another computer. I haven't noticed the blinding speed that people talk about. Macs can run Windows, and the reverse is also true. There is no reason to believe that OSX can't easily run on Windows. Virtual Machines have been around for years, and Windows runs Linux and BSD without problems. Mac OSX is closely related to BSD. As far as hardware is concerned, the processors are the same. The memory is the same. The hard drives are the same. The video cards are the same. The CDROM/DVDROM drives are the same. Apple outsources to the same vendors that make parts for PCs.
The one thing I will readily concede is the lack of spyware upkeep required for a Mac. I wish I liked the interface better.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Maybe if MAC made these, PC users would buy one Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Joey...WHERE CAN I BUY ONE OF THOSE???? Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
LOL....yeah, you'd have to be pretty drunk to buy a Mac.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Lets face it Glenn, everyone would have to be pretty drunk to agree with your views on everything from sign shops to health insurance, religion, politics and the MAC vs PC. Even these guys get it.
[ August 25, 2009, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: Joey Madden ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Nah. Just you, Joey. So whatcha drink'n. Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
My son introduced me to computers with a Commodore 64..i was a "clunky" thing but it did have GEOS "Graphic environment operating system" I think. Needed the typing in of weird commands though
My wonderful son then tore away my "user friendly" Commodore 64 and handed me a used and abused PC with the wonderful DOS 1.1 on it!!!!
All of a sudden I was looking at a black screen and had to type in new weird stuff to do pretty much nothing. Did have a lot of fun learning how to format the hard drive though..Even though it didn't need formating.
Then came Windows...WOW!!! NOW things are gonna work!! Kinda like the Commodore 64 but in full colour!! And with a hard drive AND RAM so I didn't have type in all those stupid codes to get it to work every time I started it up.
I've been thru Win 3.0, 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98, 2000, XP and Vista..So far XP wins
Had a chance to try out a mac laptop once at Jimmy Chatham's meet in Georgia. I gave it a run, but didn't care for it, even though it had my beloved CorelDraw installed.
At this point we run 2 desktops and 2 laptops..all are PCs and all run some version of Windows as an OS.
My second desktop is a 1999 machine with a whopping 256 meg of RAM. It has never failed and was once my primary machine and accesed the internet, with anti virus and protection..now it is just a humble slave that never sees the internet and has no anti-anything..It boots up in about a minute and shuts down in 10 seconds.
What point am I making...no point...
I am happy with what I have and am used to.
BTW Glenn..I drink..Joey doesn't!!! Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Glenn my life is as follows and I'll be perfectly honest with you.
I do not drink alcohol or soda pop. I rarely drink milk or never drink anything that has been pasteurized or comes in plastic or a container except for water or seltzer from a glass bottle. I do however cook with a good wine. I do not do drugs whatsoever and believe that doctors prescribe medication under the pretense that they know what's best and how a person is going to react an∂ also believe in kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies. If I truly need a medication of some kind from my doctor, the first thing I do is ask my friendly pharmacist what exactly it does but rarely do I need their drugs. My refrigerator is never bare as I make my own rice milk for whatever I'm going to use it for and juice all my veggies and fruits. I rarely eat meat but when I do, I like beef tenderloin, I eat fish and most anything from the sea.
And yes, I occasionally indulge in herbal pleasure but only at night to relax in my own surroundings. Marijuana is an herb and not a drug and here in Oregon as with several other states and more coming it is considered to be a medication prescribed by real doctors.
I am basically retired and have been since I turned 65 last November yet still dabble in what it is that I've done for over a 1/2 century and love adding my 2 cents on forums like this one. I rarely listen to the news and do not buy newspapers. The weather is going to be whatever it is so I do not watch the weather channel. I am not into sports except for drag racing and I'm having a W2-340, 525 horse power engine built for my 64 Signet Plymouth because I can.
I've posted here in Letterville for a very long time and have agreed and disagreed with you, all in all, I know where you're at and I am fine with you in regards to the purpose we are all here for. Other then that, I stand by my reasoning Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
Ive got three or four pcs at the shop, or at least whats left of them. Had to borrow parts to make each one work right. I like em okay, but I bought a 24" imac awhile back and its a cadillac. No comparison as far as boot up, programs starting up quickly, and ease of use. Illustrator cs4 works better on the mac. They are just better machines. Always have been , always will be. Ive tried em both, and thats my opinion. Ill keep using em both, but prefer the macs for the less problematic machine. Its a fact.
Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
[ August 26, 2009, 12:43 AM: Message edited by: John Deaton ]
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
quote:Originally posted by John Deaton: Illustrator cs4 works better on the mac.
In what way, John?
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Dave gets it.
Joey, I don't drink either. See, we have something in common.
John, you didn't happening to be on your Mac when you double posted were ya?
.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
David Wright made the most intelligent post on this thread. Virtually everything else could have been from any of the last 10 threads like this. What a silly waste!
Posted by Kevin Gaffney (Member # 4240) on :
Why do posts re macs and pc's on any forum, invariably turn into a mess like this. When you consider how far technology has moved forward, even in the last five years, we should be grateful to be involved in a business that has been made so much easier by either a pc or mac. Having said that, I'd still love a new mac, but can't afford one.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
quote:David Wright made the most intelligent post on this thread.
I think my post was pretty intelligent Doug - and it's on the verge of being realized:
quote:I'm waiting to see if this evolves into statistics which find that Mac users are 30% more likely to develop herpes, while PC users are 25% more likely to develop Gonorrhea.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Kevin, just wait. NFL season is about to start. Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
In my experience it does Russ. Faster and without any burps. I mean, Ive had three pcs in the last few years, all good pcs, but they all had hang ups when running certain software titles. On my pc, illustrator takes too long to boot up, and sometimes hangs while doing the actual work, and no it isnt a memory issue. Got plenty. When I got the imac, I bought cs4, and it boots up in like five seconds, and never hesitates while doing work. Its the operation system. Much more stable than windows, and thats coming from someone who uses them both. And Glenn, yep I was on the mac, but I actually posted something that I thought I should remove, as it wasnt like me, so I did. Cant blame that on the mac.
Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
Oh, and there is no way I would run paralells on my mac. To me, thats defeating the purpose, putting an unstable system on a stable one. Ill just own two computers. One mac, one pc. Posted by TJ Duvall (Member # 3133) on :
Well I for one was really upset by Glenn's comparison of the Kawasaki Ninja to a PC. You could have used a more problematic motorcycle like the Harley or something!! (Typed on my new 24" iMac).
I like to throw gasoline on fires too!!
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Hey now. You don't mess with Harley.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I'll have to agree with John Deaton on a few points:
My Mac also booted into the OS far quicker than a PC.
Programs launch quicker - and shut down quicker.
Not sure I can say that Illustrator runs any better.... well, maybe... as I think about it, everytime I try and shut Illustrator down on my PC (almost everytime) I always get a warning that Illustrator has become unstable and must shut down...so that's my general shut down routine. Can't really recall having that problem on my Mac.
And this has occurred on different PC's with different versions of Illustrator for years. But I think that has more to do with Illustrator being buggy and not properly tuned for the PC?
I still like the PC's explorer way of filing files better than the Mac.
And , with a few exceptions, most of the Mac programs won't fully enlarge to fill the screen by simply clicking a "maximize" button like the PC...it gets just a 'little' bit bigger - to make if fully fill the screen, I have to draw a corner of the application physically - which is a big pain.... maybe someone can enlighten me on a better way. Admittedly, I don't know the in's and out's of the Mac as well as the PC.
Mac's "Photo Album" is phenomenal.... for storing and tweaking photographs. And so is it's built in Photo Book, where you can easily make and purchase a hard cover book full of photos which you drop into customizable pages .... really cool.
Mac's are good machines - probably more stable in my opinion than PC's... however, I like PC's too... and I understand that Windows 7 is a great OS.
Maybe Curtis H can comment on the new Windows 7 and it's features and stability????
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Glenn - nice B... er, Boots in that Harley post!
[ August 26, 2009, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Who freaking cares?
I am going to the Peking Moon Super Buffet...
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Hehehe....watch out for those MSGs, Bruce!
Posted by Richard Mendrala (Member # 10885) on :
Aw come on. Mac's have to be good if M$ uses them in their ads.
and Doug Allan this is for you, in the beginning it was said when I started this post
I will continue using this MAC not only for my enjoyment but for home security as well and HOPEFULLY CAN GET SOME TIPS ALONG THE WAY. I probably need a newer version of the mac book for real dummies as I have a problem where I can read something but not put it into proper perspective unless I could hear it verbally. Anyway, that's all I wanted to say beside the fact that I love the MAC.
oh yes John Deaton, the start is unreal compared to waiting, like ya said, 5 seconds
Kevin Gaffney said we should be grateful to be involved in a business that has been made so much easier by either a pc or mac.
Yikes... as there are many who do it by hand without electronics and make five times the profit in less then 1/2 the time. And will still be working when the electric gets shut down
TJ Duvall Well I for one was really upset by Glenn's comparison of the Kawasaki Ninja to a PC. You could have used a more problematic motorcycle like the Harley or something!!
I would expect that would be a good uneducated answer from persons who couldn't afford a real bike and I bet there's more then a few Kawasaki owners that wished they owned a Harley while out cruising or a Vrod while they were racing.
and for Glenn, what can anyone really say besides this man really needing help
[ August 26, 2009, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: Joey Madden ]
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
I actually started with Macs before Windows was born. Gee, I wonder where Gates got the idea for Windows. It couldn't have been because he was writing software for Mac's and saw that it was better than DOS. Nahhh.
I laughed at Grundy's comment about all the Windows versions he's used through the years. They didn't get it right until XP??? Mac OS has been stable since day 1. Just an observation.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
I love it again....
quote: but they all had hang ups when running certain software titles. On my pc, illustrator takes too long to boot up, and sometimes hangs while doing the actual work, and no it isnt a memory issue
And there we have it..
The software title has the problem.. But the PC gets the blame.. Yahoo!! Users install tons of different little goodies on their machines some of which are pure junk code. They run in the background and conflict with the operation in some unknown way that later surfaces in strange places especially when someone wants to start a feature rich title.
Why is it a machine will sit on my bench and never give a hiccup. When it gets to the users office it suddenly turns into deathzilla.
It's because he gets in there and tries to add on some half backed supertweak.
Yes, blame the machine but never the users. Yes blame the machine but never the SOFTWARE.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
And now for something entirely different while I go outside and redesign and stripe a new Tundra
Curtis says: The software title has the problem.. But the PC gets the blame
Sounds the last administration had the problem but Obama gets the blame
and there we have it
Thanks Curtis
Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
Same software on both machines Curtis. No tweaks or add ons or junk on the pc I use at work. Dont have internet on it either. Illustrator runs okay on the pc, just boots up slow, and sometimes acts funny when completing a task. It dont on the mac. This is my experience with both systems, nothing else.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Well, I just worked on my MacBook Pro.... in Photoshop...
The computer booted up probably in less than 10 seconds. Program booted up even quicker... I shut the program down and it was instant... then shut down the Mac OS and it took probably 3 seconds....
This machine also has Windows XP loaded on a second partition of the hard drive via Bootcamp...
So... I'd have to agree with the Mac folks on the speed thing. Still using a PC 95% of the time though... because I'm mostly on my desktop which is a pc.
Posted by Mr Curtis Dalton (Member # 7547) on :
Okay Okay, so we all agree. 50% of sign makers are comfortable using Windows. The other 50% like using OSX and Glenn needs a ride to the mental institution..... now can we please move on and get our work done!?
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I hear the clank of the lock being clasped shut now....
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Yeah. I' thought I'd help Curtis out.
.
Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
Wow Glenn. Only you would bring politics into a discussion about computers and operating systems. If you dont like the topic, dont take part, but dont try to get it closed down by putting something political up. Man, you're starting to lose some respect....
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
I see. So when Joey injects politics, you don't say anything? But when I do it as a joke, you get upset.
Gee. Thanks John. If being humorless is what it takes to have your respect, I don't want it. Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
He didn't take offense when "Mr." Dalton made the mental institution crack either.
Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
I didnt see Joeys crack about politics. Sorry about that, he shouldnt have done it either. This aint a political thread, none of you should have injected it into the thread. And dont play it off as humor Glenn. You know better than that.No david, I didnt take offense. Mr. Dalton didnt direct that to me. You guys have been miffed ever since Barb shut down and deleted the thread the other day. Man, let it go.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Whoa....who's miffed? Did I say I was upset? Show me where I said I was upset. Hell, I defended Barb. This is her's and Steve's site and they can do anything they want with it. Moderating is a PITA job and frankly the don't need to answer to anyone for what they do.
Some of you people need to lighten up. I don't F'n care is someone has a Mac or a PC. They're just computers. Its just fun to razz Mac owners because they are so darn sensitive.
Hey! Look at me. I bought a Mac!
Whoopdeedoo. Good on ya. If owning one is going to cost you your sense of humor, you may want to reconsider. At least owning a PC requires you to have one.
****
BTW, I thought what Curtis said was funny even if it was at my expense. If we can't laugh at ourselves, lets all just crawl under a rock. Yeesh.
[ August 26, 2009, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
I still haven't decided regarding Mac vs. PC.
I don't know if the debate is politics... or religion!
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Did you mean this Glenn: everyone would have to be pretty drunk to agree with your views on everything from sign shops to health insurance, religion, politics and the MAC vs PC.
or did you mean this: Curtis says: The software title has the problem.. But the PC gets the blame
And I said, sounds the last administration had the problem but Obama gets the blame.
Either way it wasn't a full blown discussion with numbered photos and links to whatever is is that makes for craziness.
I personally find all this quite amusing and takes me away from an every day hum drum routine, plus I like when Glenn gets riled up and starts posting links and photos of things he knows little about. I should visit him
[ August 26, 2009, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: Joey Madden ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
C'mon over. I'll treat you to some Eastern Carolina BBQ. Just promise you'll leave the bong at home. Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
That's not barbeque.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Sorry Curtis.
Raymond and I are about to go a round. Posted by Kevin Gaffney (Member # 4240) on :
Is this too sensitive a time to ask one simple question. As someone, desperately wanting to move to the mac platform, but like most, strapped for cash at the moment, is a mac worth probably twice the money a similar pc would cost. Not trying to start another war, just trying to justify spending probably another 1000 dollars
Posted by Kevin Gaffney (Member # 4240) on :
Is this too sensitive a time to ask one simple question. As someone, desperately wanting to move to the mac platform, but like most, strapped for cash at the moment, is a mac worth probably twice the money a similar pc would cost. Not trying to start another war, just trying to justify spending probably another 1000 dollars
Posted by Mr Curtis Dalton (Member # 7547) on :
Hey Glenn, I'm glad you know I was joking about the "mental" crack I made. Cuz, it really was a joke. I actually thought you were being funny on here as well. Even though I honestly love using a Mac, I really don't dislike Windows users.. at all... I just like starting funny arguments.. I do that alot.. with my friends. I ask them to hang out, then I start a topic (even if I agree with them) I'll disagree just to drive them crazy!!! After they leave I think to myself.. "wow, I'm an a$$" but they all know I'm kidding around. Sometimes.
Anyway, I understand your political joke, it was funny cuz it was just a joke. Mine was just a joke as well. Thanks for finding it funny. Peace out... I'll join back in, on a topic about sign work.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Kevin...Buy what you wish to buy..
Don't let the "elitists" in either camp sway what you want, need nor can afford.
If you let others govern what you buy, you will probably be unhappy in the end.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
100!!!
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
BTW...... Double-Post Score....
Mac - 2 PC - 1
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Hahahahahahahaha.......finally got a picture of a typical Mac salesman:
Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
That does look like the guy that sold me mine Si. Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
Kevin- just wondering where you are getting your figures? $1000 really? What are you comparing?
When I bought my custom built Dell Laptop- $1800, My MacBook- $1600... pretty much the same specs When I bought my custom built Dell Desktop Workstation- $2100, My 24" IMac- $1800 pretty much similar specs except the monitor size (Dell was only a tiny 17")
Even if you look on the websites- Low end Studio Mini Desktop Dell- around $400-$600, Mac Mini- around $600 Dell Precision T7500 High End Graphics with 22" Monitor- around $2100, 24" IMac- between $1800-$2100
You have got to compare apples to apples, by the time you add on all the little bells and whistles, you would be surprised how close in price they are- sure you can get a PC at Wal-Mart for about $300, but I don't think I would trust it for work. You sure can't compare a $300 PC to a high end 8 core $3300 Mac Pro.
Plus- if you decide to buy a Mac, you get those cool little apple stickers to put on your car and show the world that you don't follow Glenn's advise- to be another Windows Beta Tester, like the rest of the world, hoping and praying that the next release will somehow magically work and people will stop talking about Macs-
And for sure don't pay any attention to the Canadian who spends his winters basking in the sun, wearing a sombrero, and drinking Mexican beer- and he has the nerve to call us "elitists"! haha
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Well now,, BBQ or grilling
I much prefer BBQ over grilling. Only a real man knows BBQ. The rest who grill are elitists.
Grillers,, They fire up some charcoal, lay on some meat and let it burn. They pretend to have all the answers on making a great dinner. They use this little steal pot with some kind of wire frame to hold the meat over a fire. They don't know it but they are making cancers coals. They build their fire on the back deck near the pool and look at their best friends daughter while she does the splits ofa the diving board. They use a little can to catch the drippings to make sure they don't land on the wood deck.
Now for a real way to cook a BBQ BBqr's Have a really fine set up for making a BBQ. They have a large kettle that would never fit on the back deck. They need space. They fire up the charcoal, add in some hickory and some mesquite for smoke. And then cook. They cook all day long. Never get the heat above 160 F. They never allow a fire to get up and burn the meat. They use the finest of ingredients to make a great BBQ sauce. Now that is the real BBQ. It dotn matter where its done though. Texas all the way East to the Carolina's. They all have a good deal of skill. And they use the RIGHT tool to cook a set of ribs.
I insist that the BBQ setup is the best. Any other way is just junk. BBQ, This is real cooking.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
What does any of this have to do with Letterheads? It's about people. Not machines!
What the hell is going on here? This is not the website we started. I ashamed to look at most of the crap being posted these days.
I accept most of the blame. As many have pointed out in phone calls and e-mails, I am not here to babysit the way I used to. The Letterheads I grew up with didn't need a babysitter. Well just me, but I had enough sense to keep my big mouth shut and listen to those that were doing what I wanted to accomplish.
Things are going to change. I want to get back to the Letterheads I love and the Letterville we envisioned. Some of you are leaving town.
I'm sorry it got to this point, but it's plain to me some are not here because of their passion in Letterheads. After 15 years, some of you have never even made an effort to attend a meet.
Times have changed, but I know most of you are more concerned about keeping the best of our trade's history alive and learning the new technology together. That learning process does not include insulting each other, and/or trying to improve our own self esteem by attempts to ridicule others.
Let me remind you all that this is our meet. That means we get to make the rules. It's obvious that has just become too big for Barb and I to look after ourselves. As a result, I am going to seek partners and volunteers to help out. It may even be time to let new owner's take things over. I'm tired. Barb cannot continue to do this herself.
This post will be locked. We want to see more participation in panel jams. More discussion on layout. Honest talk about the business end of doing what we do and how it effects all of you at home. Those that like to stir things up are going to be asked why they should stay. If you are not here to contribute in a positive manner you will be asked to leave.
We're going back to our Letterhead roots. Hope there are are enough of you left to make the trip with us.
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Many of my programs are not available for MAC so I'll always have a PC.![[Applause]](graemlins/applause.gif)
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