I have a customer that I'm doing some sign work for who also needs a concrete (or something along those lines) monument sign. I of course told him, "Okay, no problem." I have actually never done one before...
So, there was a company that used to get, I believe, some type of foam letters from the last place I worked, to do just this type of sign. I think they were a concrete company and not a sign company. I've contacted my old boss who is going to be nice enough to look up their name for me. So I can order the letters and sub the work to them--one possibility.
Now I happened to mention this job to my signpainter friend whom I collaborate with on occasion and he said, "Oh, don't contact them, we can do it. We just need to build the mold, rent the mixer and pour it ourselves." This idea freaks me out a little, cause although the guy is handy, I don't know if he's ever actually done this before.
So is this something I should take on or definitely sub out? Any suggestions on how to go about the manufacturing of this, and how to build a foundation or base for it and so on? It will be going into a corner facing dirt planter, so probably single-sided and approximately 4x8 size I'm not sure how thick, maybe 6" or 8". It's in an industrial area, so will probably be a rectangular shape, nothing to fancy; I don't know if well be doing any decorative brick or columns of any sort on the sides.
Also, I have absolutely no idea how to go about pricing.
Any help or suggestions are appreciated.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
Hard to give an idea of price without seeing all the specs...
I have been around concrete signs for a while.
On the idea of doing it yourself. There are issues with pouring it in place with a mixer...
What size mixer? Mixers range from 1 1/2 cubic feet to 10 cubic feet. (your proposed measurements is around 16-22 cubic feet, that means at least 3 mixes, and up to 7 mixes on a 3 1/2 cubic foot mixer.
If it's colored concrete, then you are going to have a hard time keeping color consistent, even regular concrete will vary a little. Then you have to mix in enough time to be of uniform strength.
With vertical concrete and inset details, you have to vibrate (there is a specialized tool you can rent for that) the concrete to get in all the nooks and crannies of the letters. With each pour/vibrate you may compromise color, texture consistency and strength. You probably want to reinforce the concrete with rebar/admix. I prefer PVC for the letters, foam can fail during the pour depending on the stroke width. It would help if the letters had a slight bevel overall so they release easier, a bevel on the sign corners would not hurt either, You have to use the correct release agent on the letters/form. And you may think about using something other than mdo or plywood as a form face so the finish is smooth... or at least smooth enough for any special finish. When making the form you want to make sure that it is reinforced so it does not bow, you are working with around 3200 pounds of wet concrete and you want a solid form with all that shaking and pouring going on.
On the base, that is easier, but my feeling is, if you have to ask about that, then you may want to farm out the whole sign to someone. Especially when getting your permits and inspection sign off.
There is the option of precast, where you have more control of the site conditions, but then you have to deal with incorporating some eyebolt attachment/rebar footing and then getting the finish sign to the project and grouted in.
There are a few good precast companies in Southern California. One I am familiar with is Quickcrete... http://www.quickcrete.com/monument.html Posted by Cody Reich (Member # 8052) on :
You might want to consider looking at a Peachtree Foamcraft prefabbed sign. Just a thought.
Posted by Tracie Johnson (Member # 6117) on :
Thank you so much, Rick. This is exactly the infomation I was looking for. Again, I wouldn't have even dreamed of doing it myself, if it wasn't for my friend being so adament. I knew it was probably biting off a bit more than we could chew. I will check into the company your recommended tomorrow.
Thanks again!
Posted by Tracie Johnson (Member # 6117) on :
Oh, and Cody, thanks. I've actually seen them at sign shows and have some catalogs. My only problem is they only guarantee there product for like 8 years I think. It might last longer in this climate, but still, I wouldn't want to chance it. Their product certainly LOOKS impressive though.
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
Rick, thanks for taking the time to explain in a thorough manner.
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
Thanks, Rick. I've been wanting to try one of those ever since I was out in Cali last year and saw a sign one of my friends (who is a concrete man, and not a sign person) made for his church.
From what I remember he told me, he did it very similar to how you said... although he did do it at his house and then take it out to the site. He has a concrete grinder at his house, so after he had the sign poured and the molds off, he ground the face of it to give it a terrazo look. I believe he had colored the concrete a creme color already and then painted the letters brown.
My pictures are not too great, but the sign looks really good in real life. Especially for something built by someone who doesn't do signs.
I can't remember what kind of letters he used, I need to contact him again and ask him... anyway, here's a few pictures. (This sign is in Ballico, CA, which is close to Merced....)
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Joe Crumely cuts lots of letters for concrete molds and he uses Extira. I would be afraid of foam myself. I may be wrong but I would think MDO would be a perfect forming substrate. I heard that's what MDO was originally designed for before it became a popular sign panel.
Joe uses a special bit that he bought from Gary Beckwith. It has a slight taper which helps the concrete release from the mold better. It's a big honkin' bit that looks somewhat like an arrow head.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
