This is a problem that seems to happen more and more. You make a custom designed sign for a new customer.
They email or call you a week or month later and want you to email them the "Artwork" so they can use it for something else. This isn't necessarily a logo, but they want it off your computer to use for other purposes. This seem be be happening more and more!
Now I could be just be a nice guy and go find the original file, convert it and send it to them. THIS ALL TAKES TIME! I've tried to explain the time involved and I take credit cards ($25 fee) over the phone, to cover the time. They think I just slapped them in the face! What do you do?
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
I have a clause on the work order they sign that says the artwork belongs to me and all they are buying is the sign.
I let them know that for $250 I'll provide them with the file on a CD in jpg and pdf formats in both black and white and color.
I also let them know that if they use my design in any fashion, newspaper or other print matter, on tee shirts, trucks , etc. , that they are in copyright violation and I will pursue it.
I don't know if I really could pursue it or how to go about that, but they often buy the rights to the design and not feel angry about it long. Seems like two days later they are proud of what they now own.
Posted by Weston Pulley (Member # 10330) on :
I've been guilty in the past for giving artwork/layouts away to the customer so they can pass it in to their printer for brochures, business cards, etc.
Now, I inform them that I offer these services, so now they don't need the artwork. I also inform them that there is an additional charge if they require the artwork for any "outside" use.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
John,
Yep, I've noticed the trend. I will offer a small low res 72dpi jpg but anything beyond that starts at $250 and goes up depending on the size and complexity of the design.
Like Weston, its one of the things that has prompted me to begin offering other services such as websites, business cards and embroidery.
Edited to add....
IMHO, computer files are tools just like a hammer or jig is to a carpenter or cabinetmaker. Imagine a client asking a cabinetmaker for his custom-made dovetail jig so he can use it for something else.
[ March 29, 2009, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
The point is that the customers loose their own computer file or need me to find something they sent me and send it back. This all takes time. I'm not trying to sell them a logo, I'm only trying to find a tactful way of explaining why I need to get payment for "ANY" computer time to "HELP" them. What do you tell them? How would you answer an email after such a request?
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
If its something they sent you in the first place, I would just send it to them and chalk it up to the cost of doing business. A little goodwill is far less expensive than replacing a lost customer.
Posted by Weston Pulley (Member # 10330) on :
I have to agree with Glen. You don't want to lose a customer over a little time.
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
I feel the same way. I can't count the amount of time I've wasted on youtube or whatever looking at national geographic videos or dunk contests, stupid stuff. I don't consider it a bother to email a file to a customer if he needs it for something I can't provide for him. I know we've discussed this before, but example...
This just happened to me last week. Customer calls me, I survey the sign. I give him a quote, he has his own "logo". he has to figure out who has his art then have them email it to me.(meaning he's not sure where it is... I've been through this before so I know this person may never email me or may take a week to actually get back to me. I look at the design, identify the font, figure it will take me 20 minutes to yank his logo off his website and clean it up. So, I tell him, "no problem, I'll take care of it" Don't worry about having them email me the file. I do it, make the sign, make a nice profit,I cleaned his logo up better than what was on his website so he asks me can I email it to him, i say sure, no problem, I'm glad I can help.
BAM, customer for life, he already referred me to 2 people who called me.
Sometimes, that extra $25 file handling fee can end up costing you more than you might ever know.
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
"Customer for life"? No such thing. Not in today's business climate. Those referrals? I would love to hear what he told them... "Hey Joe! Go see this guy. He does the sign and then gives you the art for free! Hot damn!"
I remember recreating a logo design for a client. We were making a new sign for their new second facility. So he wants prices on another ground sign, some truck lettering, and assorted other stuff we quoted for him. Weeks go by and no word on the job...
Then he calls and asks for the art file. Says he wants it use in his computer but he needs in a vector format. I told him the file was in a proprietary file format. He asks if I couldn't just export it. I know I can and he probably knows I can but I told him my program didn't have that feature. Hey, so I fibbed... I just wasn't as gullible as he thought I was going to be.
Then he gets all PO'd and says "That's MY F'ing logo!", So I told him "Yeah, maybe it is but it is in MY computer! I built it and I am not giving it away for free".
This was back in 1993. Things haven't improved any since. We charged people for scanning art and cleaning it. Hardly any other shops around us did and just set that bar really low. People working for free. Gee, that makes a whole lot of sense.
I think giving away art for free is just bad business. People do not appreciate what they get for free. They don't attach any value to it. Why should they? You didn't.
Giving stuff away doesn't make you a hero. It doesn't make you a good guy. In most cases, it doesn't generate any loyalty.
If you want to be a sign professional, then you need to act like one. You need to be fair to your customers but you also must be fair to yourself and to your business.
Posted by Elaine Beauchemin (Member # 136) on :
think of it this way.
you go to a restaurant order a meal / pay it / it's all yours to enjoy and eat it.
but
you don't own the recipe ah ah! try to ask the chef to "give" it to you free of charge!
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Before computers, did we give away our pounce patterns?
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
But thats not John's question.
The question is "The client gives you a copy of a pounce pattern. He loses his and is asking you for a copy of the one he gave you. What do you charge for your time to find it and send it to him?"
Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
Even after I sell the a CD with the artwork on it. AND TELL THEM NOT TO LOOSE IT. They call a year or more later and expect me to do them a favor,stop everything and find their job and then send it to them AGAIN!
I always try to tell them, up front, that I charge to burn another CD. WTF
Posted by Ben Diaz (Member # 7319) on :
If you suspect that they will lose the CD you gave them, then I would suggest making your own backup CD or have a folder on your computer somewhere with all the files already converted. That way when they lose their cd you don't have to spend all morning re-creating it. You should charge for another CD regardless. CDs are cheap, but not free, call it a CD processing fee.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
I agree with Ben.
That is actually what I do with all my clients for whom I do logo designs and websites. It just makes things a lot easier.
.
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Taylor: But thats not John's question.
The question is "The client gives you a copy of a pounce pattern. He loses his and is asking you for a copy of the one he gave you. What do you charge for your time to find it and send it to him?"
Sorry, my bad. I only read his first post.
Well, in that case, I'd charge a design fee to layout another pattern.
But if it's a file, on my computer, of vector art the customer has already PAID for, I would probably either just email them another, or charge a small fee....depending on the particular situation.
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Taylor: But thats not John's question.
The question is "The client gives you a copy of a pounce pattern. He loses his and is asking you for a copy of the one he gave you. What do you charge for your time to find it and send it to him?"
Sorry, my bad. I only read his first post.
Well, in that case, I'd charge a design fee to layout another pattern.
But if it's a file, on my computer, of vector art the customer has already PAID for, I would probably either just email them another, or charge a small fee....depending on the particular situation.
Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
ANY time you deal with a client - even if they're just asking you to send them a file - I think there's an opportunity.
It could be an opportunity to sell them a new logo design package.
It could be an opportunity to find out how their business is doing. The need the logo because they are making a new website... does that mean they need to promote their URL on their existing or new signs?
Maintaining an ongoing relationship with a customer is the EASIEST way to keep money coming in.
So, don't think of it as time wasted -- think of it as an opportunity to spend some time with a customer.
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