I did a search and found some varied comments on Extira here . . . I'd just like to compile a list of pro's and con's . . .
I am going to be bidding on a project where it is used as both 'half-wall' and sign on a gazebo - and will be close to a concrete pad outdoors - maybe 5" off the ground.
Any issues that should be addressed in a installation like that?
I see rounding the edges is important (as with all painted exterior signage) - and adhesion of paint is an issue.
Any other comments?
Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
The stuff is heavy, so you need a good way to transport, offload, and install it when using it for panels. I would treat it the way you treat thick panes of glass - keep it stacked vertically, and figure your expansion into your retainer/hardware system.
Posted by Brad Farha (Member # 931) on :
Yes, it's very heavy and not terribly paint or adhesive friendly. The advantage is that it's typically less expensive than comparable substrates. It seems to hold up reasonably well if properly installed and coated.
Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
Love it. Never had a problem with it failing or problems with paint yet.
As for weight some of it can be overcome by using proper ratios 3/4 mdo does not mean it has to be 3/4 extira.
Another tip from Joe Crumley which I must say works really great,-Thanks Joe, WASH THE PANEL DOWN WITH DISH SOAP AND RINSE GOOD.
You will find a great difference in primer adhesion, it takes the film right away.
[ March 18, 2009, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Sam Staffan ]
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Speaking from experience, I'd say that the extra prep time and material required for longevity is hardly worth the initial money saved.
I followed a proceedure outlined here to make it weather proof. I really feel as though I would have saved money if I'd just bought SignFoam to begin with.
I do feel that the finished product is a good quality. It does carve well on the router. Yes, it's heavy, but it has a great look. Just my .02
Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
quote:Originally posted by Rick Beisiegel: Speaking from experience, I'd say that the extra prep time and material required for longevity is hardly worth the initial money saved.
I followed a procedure outlined here to make it weather proof. I really feel as though I would have saved money if I'd just bought SignFoam to begin with.
I do feel that the finished product is a good quality. It does carve well on the router. Yes, it's heavy, but it has a great look. Just my .02
Their both great products in their own place. I do not see any extra time in prep to make it "waterproof"?? it already is 99% waterproof.
Again not sticking up for it just showing where it has a place.
Here are two signs the green is cast and is in for a strip down, painted and then leafed. This type of sign has hands on them all day long.
Now imagine if that was in signfoam. How many of the small letters do you think would be missing after one summer? I will bet there would not be an i dotted anymore.
As for the Blue sign - Sandblasted Extira with silver Aqua Leaf. Every letter is as strong as can be, some cannot even tell that it is not cast.
And for skirting out post the Extira is great!
The ground moisture has not affected any that I have done to date. Just keep the weed wackers away from them. But if you cannot we wrap the bottom with metal and then paint.
Posted by Dennis Raap (Member # 3632) on :
Sam, great ideas for the use of Extira. What do you use for primer?
Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
Good morning Dennis. Ronans Prime-all
Posted by Dennis Raap (Member # 3632) on :
Sam, do you use Ronans Prime-all for your HDU also? I like the idea of it being water base.
Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
Jay, Why extira? How will you be using it? Is it going to be shaped & dimensional or just a background for graphics? I've used it, like it, and as Sam pointed out it has great advantages in certain applications.
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
Another trick if you want even more water proof and Paint acceptable is to take some Epoxy (West system or USG) and thin it with acetone then brush it on. Talk about rock hard.
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
Thanks, guys!! All great info . . . Bill, it's an architect's spec. Need I say more?
Rick . . . I've used that logic before. In this case, it is used as a wall for a gazebo AND a sign - so HDU wouldn't fill the bill. Otherwise, I'd agree. There is a hump in the leak of the sign - so it isn't a recatangular sign and rules out some materials - unless you reinforced on the backside of the hump.
Sam, that's a dandy 'bronze plaque' look there on those Lake View Hotel signs . . . how long do you think those will last outdoors? Is that acrylic latex paint with silver leaf? Cost vs. a bronze plaque?
Posted by Doug Bernhardt (Member # 1568) on :
Jay...the product is fine and have used it a half dozen times in the last 5 or so years. It's brittle (edges will chip) but other than that follow the manu's instructions for finishing. Last I used it they were oil primers.
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
Thanks, Doug . . .
How ya' been? It's been too long, my friend . . .
Posted by Joe Crumley (Member # 2307) on :
Rick,
Disadvantages: Heavy Flaky on edges (If rounded over it performs well.) 1/2" full sheets will warp without support. Epoxy is best adhesive Water resistan which means latex primers are questionable. Glue, any kind, won't penetrate very deep.
Advantages: Once scrubed down with soap and water it can be primed with any distilate primer.
Extremely water resistant. Carves like a dream Routes like a dream Not expensive
Like any substrate, it has limitations and your is very timely and smart.
Good luck on the job.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Hmmm
Maybe I over prepared my surfaces. As directed in a post here, I used Helmsman marine clear, followed by white oil based primer. then color layers. What a mess. Id much rather rinse and coat with Jay Cooke's primer. Lots easier
Sam
I can see the advantage of a firmer substrate with signs like those...I've actually seen some of those in mny travels.....nice work
[ March 20, 2009, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by Doug Bernhardt (Member # 1568) on :
Jay......all is well here and very busy. Thats a good thing from what I see everywhere else....Would love to know how are things in your area, so my take...talk to the designer architect about HDU. They usually have a set of ideas that are open for better ones. It would seem Joe and Rick's advice is sound if ya gotta use it. I see no benefit except for price.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
I would like to try it. But try and find it. My sign suppliers have never even heard of it.
Posted by Richard Heller (Member # 2443) on :
Dave I buy it at our local plywood and sheet goods/counter top supplier. Locally here it's called Distributor Service, Inc. I looked and they don't have a location in Michigan, but you have to have a Building Supplier other than the box chain stores around. Maybe look on the Extira website for distributors in your area.
Posted by Marty Happy (Member # 302) on :
I have used Extira for dimensional signs for at least 5 years now without a failure and love it. The main reason... several of my HDU signs were damaged by hail which is not uncommon in this area. Extira is tough enough to withstand hail.
Yes, it's extremely heavy but signs can be built in smaller pieces for easier handling. Besides weight is rarely a factor on anything with the exception of bracket hung signs.
As recommended on the Extira site I have always used oilbase primers with either oilbase or acrylic paint depending which is more suitable.
On several earlier projects I used a 2 part polyurethane encapsulant but rarely use that anymore except on complex handcarved elements made from laminated pieces of Extira to positively seal out moisture intrusion between layers.
Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
Like Rick said, it's more likely at a good lumber yard or sheet goods dealer. We have one place here that carries it.
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