A very nice retired GM employee friend of my brother-in-law is a 'gentleman farmer' and was sent to me for lettering of his farm semi doors.
He brought a very interesting board from a small trailer his father had. The board contained some neat sign-painting from an old fellow from a few years back.
Apparently, the guy doesn't paint anymore - which is how I came into the picture.
I was pretty impressed with the painted board, frankly.
Anyway... he wanted something VERY close to how the painted board looked.
My main criticism was that I didn't personally like the 'swooshes' that the guy painted on.
Here is a look at the board:
Here is what I came up with - but I did my own little hand-vectored swirly-gigs.
The RED color is actually the color of the semi door - so it's background only.
Nothing earth shattering...but I think it looks alright.
I tried to talk him out of the humped up farms in lieu of something different, but he wanted the distorted word as is.
He also did NOT want the border...as a side note.
I'm thinking my design could have been better with some different way of approaching "FARMS."
So... here is the design without the word "FARMS" and I'd like to see what solutions you might have suggested.
Just a note - it's already a done deal - it's what HE wanted, which is fine...but I thought it would be a nice game to play for educations' sake.
What say Ye?
Oh... I should mention...he didn't want to pay much and I reluctantly gave him more than the 1-color I originally told him I would do for the money...but, he was sooooo nice and it's approaching Christmas...where's Cam when you need him??
Here's the file sans "FARMS"... change anything you want and give me your honest critique. Let's let this be a fun learning thing.
[ November 24, 2008, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Todd, try using something like Stymie, which is closer to the original. It looks somewhat better distorted. I would have liked to move "FARMS" up tighter to the name but didn't want to mess with the scroll. Also, I would avoid making FARMS in black as there is not enough contrast. Love....Jill p.s.s. I do not care for the grey/silver drop shadow. If anything, use black or burgundy.
[ November 24, 2008, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: Jillbeans ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Jill - I do like that font better! Nice job....I haven't cut the job yet, so I may just email him a new comp just to see if he'll bite...
Keep 'em coming...
Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
Hi Todd,
Just from a first glance, I think I would put some height on the name to balance with the way farms is stretched.
Try thinning down the strokes on the pinstriping, maybe make it a little more calligraphy style instead of all equal strokes, they just seem to over power a bit.
Posted by Mark Matyjakowski (Member # 294) on :
Nice find with the old sign! I think your "scrolls" are a bit too modern, tribal, biker, vampire looking. Doubling up the original "scrolls" could make them work (a more farm/country simplicity). I don't mind any of your font choices but certain things bug me ... mainly the way the letters kind of slant, but not evenly, on the main copy (B= no slant, U=slight right slant, H's=slight, OLZ= way right slant). And what Jill said about farm being black. Here's my take on what you got... maybe some orange something in the corners also
.........oops, I meant "swooshes" not "scrolls" ......
....edit again (I should really read what I'm responding to first)... I think a border would tie it all together as long as it's not a predominant feature (why I went with a black one)
[ November 24, 2008, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: Mark Matyjakowski ]
Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
Sweet! Maybe scale Farms down in height a tad.
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
Mark, I believe that is your 512th homerun.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Looking good people!!
I likes what I sees.
Two things though...
The fellow (I forgot to mention this) specifically said he hated the orange flick of color in the current painted scroll....don't know why, but he didn't like that little swoosh/color.
Also - re also specifically did not want the border.
I kinda of like the border myself....
Definitely like the reverse of the white vs black - good call!!
Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
quote:Originally posted by Todd Gill: Looking good people!!
The fellow (I forgot to mention this) specifically said he hated the orange flick of color in the current painted scroll....don't know why, but he didn't like that little swoosh/color.
I kinda of like the border myself....
Definitely like the reverse of the white vs black - good call!!
Tone the swoosh down to a deeper color and show it with and with out the frame.
You maybe need to remind him of the Seinfeld episode- "The Soup Nazi"
My Way or--- "NO SIGN FOR YOU!" Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Matyjawhoozit's scrolls are dead-on.
Posted by Dan Beach (Member # 9850) on :
I do like the more simple scrolls. Seems to have more of an old time hand painted sign feel.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Much prefer Mark's scrolls...the others looked almost like tribal patterns and didn't fit the era you're trying to capture.
my 2 bits... Rapid
Posted by Don Hulsey (Member # 128) on :
I can't see any way to improve on Mark's design.
The only thing I would suggest is... If the guy is dead set against ORANGE replace it with Imitation Gold(Not as effective, but not Orange)
Then explain to him that while the white border was a little distracting, the black border really helps tie the whole thing together. Also having the name extend slightly beyond the border adds emphasis to the name.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Alright then... my task is to somehow see if I can change his mind - because I'm supposed to do the job 'this evening!'
I have reconfigured the piece to more closely emulate Mark's - with the differently styled scrolls, etc.
So - let's see if the client will be equally impressed and open to a last second change.
I'll keep you posted.
Thanks everyone!! Nothing like a good-ol-brainstorming session to give you a different look at things and enhance your creative grab-bag.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
The only thing I can suggest which may help, is to lift the black outline & shadow of Farms off it a bit, and have an outline of background colour immediately around the letters, so the shading & outline more closely matches that of Buchholz.
As it is, the black right against the white of Farms makes it stand out a little too boldly for my liking, especially the M. I wouldn't mind seeing little mid points on the vertical strokes, like in Buchholz also, possibly. Maybe not...
Or else give Farms a smallish slab serif like Buchholz...I'm not so keen on the vast difference in the serifed fonts. I'd rather see no serifs on Farms, than differing ones, I think.
Buchholz is clearly of a thick & thin,(or thick & thicker) font, while Farms is a more evenly stroked font. I'd prefer if there was more similarity of style, I think.
I'm just trying to link Farms with Buchholz in some other way than just the white colour, that's all. I'd like to see some harmony or consistency across the words- not necessarily total duplication of font at all, but some consistancy, I think.
Maybe I think too much...it's late & I'm off to bed! Good work, Mark! Fun job, Todd- I'd tackle it with a brush & some good music, & leave the plotter turned off!
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Good suggestions Ian - and valid one's in regards to the "FARMS".... I might just go ahead and tweak that so it does have the red space between the letters and black outline....makes sense.
Still debating the font choice... time's running out!
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
I agree with others, scrolls too tribal, Mark's is much better. He really needs to be talked into a border.
No period after MI or spell out Michigan which makes it look less like a postal code.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Ian's comments make a whole lot of sense. The point about the red space is especially important. Notice how the white in Buchholz looks warmer than the white in Farms and the town name. This is a result of the eye mixing a little of the red into the white, "optical mixing".
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
I personally don't care for the heavier Farms. But that's just a personal thing. (lhf Fairground)
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
I'm really surprised. After all the time, tips and tricks that have been shared here for so long, everyone's been missing the obvious!
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I saw your name on the thread and my first thought was, "Ok... this is going to be good!"
I don't even want to ask 'what's up with the barcode.'
Posted by Michael Boone (Member # 308) on :
the border is good for a sign... its not necessary or even desirable on the doors of a truck......which is what Todd is doing.
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
David, I think if you put a skull on top of the B at the beginning of the gray flames, we would really have a WINNER!
here, let me do it....
there you go...you can thank me later
Oh yeah!
edited to say that Brush Script, all caps.... SCHWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!
[ November 25, 2008, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Dawud Shaheed ]
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
David, Grand Ledge would be better in process blue helvetica, I feel.
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
Never think I don't appreciate constructive criticism. I pay attention and take the advise to improve my layouts. Dawud nailed it--a skull is needed. However, since this is a farm, I thought a cow skull would be nice.
I have such respect for Ian's input and have made the changes he suggested. As a personal tribute to Ian, I also included a tractor, complete with pinstriped carriage wheels. A few sunbursts and...
I stink I'm done!
Posted by Mark Matyjakowski (Member # 294) on :
I like William's "Farm" and can appreciate the inline of red (the "optical mixing" ... I like that, learn something new )
That Boone is a wise man, I can see where a rectangle border might even look odd competing with body likes ... in that case I might leave the box around Grand Ledge, run the double lines out left and right and loose the border above that... or maybe turn the border 90 degrees and run it down the door ... or ... I don't know it aint my job, I'z just having fun.
David, you can't be done ... none of the lettering has bevels.
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
cow head, Perfect!, How did I miss that? You, sir, Have vision.
Posted by Philip Swanson (Member # 6097) on :
You guys are NUTS! (But funny) PS How 'bout some barbed wire?
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
Phil is on to something. No farm sign is complete without "bob wahr"--that's "barbed wire" for all you funny talkin' folks who ain't from Texas.
Todd, with all the input you've gotten to date, I think you should insert a digital print and upsell him to a full wrap.
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
Hey, I recognize that last layout. There's a bunch of van's running around Pensacola with that same design. I've never been able to figure out their company, so I'm gonna guess they are a plumbing outfit.
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
Hey! isn't the tractor supposed to be red with printing bands thru it?
Something wrong with my monitor too ... "farms" aint "gold"!
Geeeez ... a few more layers yer might nail it Dave!
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
I think it needs a few airbrushed bullet holes in it now- that'll make it look really 'homely'!
(P.S. if you needed some real bullet holes, I'm sure I read somewhere that Roy Frisby was cutting up some of the smaller oil-well holes he was selling, into smaller packs- some might even be bullet-sized. It's worth an enquiry...)
Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
And now that the final draft is done, here is the best part.
We can print them for you for $0.25, no $0.15 sq.ft.
And you can have them in 24, wait no 12 hrs no um Ok 6 hrs, and we will throw in free shipping, Oh and we will laminate and cut them to size. But you have to buy at least two to make it worth our time.
[ November 26, 2008, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: Sam Staffan ]
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
See, this is where you guys all screw this up.
The first part of the Toddler's post talked about wanting something just like the first guy painted. Notice the inclusion of the five-letter word - P A I N T. So here's what you do, Todd. Most of us are getting a four-day weekend - just enough time to drive that rig over here and let me letter it up with P A I N T.
Too damn far, you say? Hell, take it over to Mike Meyer, or find one of the last two or three sign guys in Michigan who still knows which end of a brush gets wet, and give the customer what he WANTS - which is a painted sign. The fact that the original was no masterpiece isn't the point - he likes that because it was real and human and organic, not designed and produced by a machine.
Does anyone else get that? Or am I just pi$$ing into the wind over here? Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
Chill Cam,
OK I will do it for $0.10sq.ft. and I will do it on Thanksgiving day, but that is my best offer
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
The last time I painted a sign, it came out looking like that. Blame Raymond--he's a bad teacher.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
What? No diamond plate??? Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
Hey Cam... winds been blowing about 35 mph from the north here and I felt pi$$. Would you please stop?
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
Sam's gonna have to reprint these, but since he's getting all our business and can reuse the ones he's already done if he just cleans the ink off, I think he should do them for a dime a square foot.
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
Ok David. That looks AWESOME. I'll take 20 prints of that. But first I want to make SURE your printer is Pantone calibrated and I need the gray to be PMS 4233, the tractor Pantone 2353 and the skull PMS 9384.243... on the blue lettering, I like the PMS 299.5 but you MIGHT want to bump it up to a 300. And do you know, until I took that online tutorial on logo design, I thought PMS stood for something completely different!
Oh, and just a couple things I'd like to see adjusted, shouldn't take you more than a minute. Could you move the flames up about 3/8"? And I'd like to see it with the tractor facing the other way... I think it would convey more of the spirit that we are reaching 'out' instead of looking 'in'. Also, the cows skull is missing a few teeth and we don't have redneck cows here. Just add a few in there to make sure it looks appropriate. Also, I may be looking at it wrong but to me, the little tail thingies on the letters look like they may be just a little bigger on the 'B' than the other letters... can you just shrink them a tad?
Other than that, I LOVE IT. I guess you'll be printing them as soon as you make the changes. Can I just wait on it?
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
Jon,
Better yet. Why don't you pull up a chair and look over my shoulder as we design it together? We could even throw in your cell number, website, office number, fax number, "if no answer please call" number, and all three email addresses in some artsy font like Papyrus. Oh... and bring your nephew, I'm sure he has some good ideas to add to the mix.
And Cam... how much beer did you drink?
[ November 26, 2008, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: David Harding ]
Posted by Jerry Berg (Member # 7841) on :
C'mon now, We need more bar codes, A few of those items are not bar coded. You all really need to get with the times here.
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
Harding . . . HAHAHAHA . . . your first attempt . . . HAHAHAHAHAHA . . . wiping up the pee right now . . . laughed too hard!! Then the additions!!
I know a guy who designs just like that!! And he must do a lot of work cuz' I see sh!t just like that at least once a week.
Funny . . .
Happy Thanksgiving all!!
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Cam, I think I mentioned cleaning out the brushes & having some fun, earlier on in this thread.
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
Cue up theme music from The Outer Limits...
"There is nothing wrong with your design. Do not attempt to adjust the layout. We are controlling the graphics. If we wish to make it more garish, we will bring up the lime green. If we wish to make it softer, we will insert a highly pixilated web graphic. We will control the horizontal banding. We will control the vertical banding. We can digitally roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur by multiple outlines, bevels, and gradients around important copy or sharpen unnecessary text to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and try to figure out what on earth this wrap is supposed to say. We repeat, there is nothing wrong with your design. You are about to participate in a grating adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to... The Outer Limits of Nephew Art...
...Todd, we now return control of your thoroughly hijacked post to you."
If I act like this on Todd's design requests, I seriously doubt he'll be inviting me to the movies any time soon.
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Harding: ...Todd, we now return control of your thoroughly hijacked post to you."
If I act like this on Todd's design requests, I seriously doubt he'll be inviting me to the movies any time soon.
Well, that'd be kinda risky anyway.... you might forget to turn your cell phone off...
/"goin' Todd" //such a useful colloquialism Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
(...hmmm, after all this, I wonder if he'll post a photo of the finished article here...)
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
Please Note Well the title of the thread!!!!!
We is just "PLAYING" as invited, but David moved the goalposts a LITTLE bit.!!!!!
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
LOL...ok, just got a chance to get back and read the insane, but humorous mayhem. Thank you my fellow goofballs for the belly laughs.
Ok...here's what's transpired:
They chose to keep the filigrees I proposed over the modified ones Mark smartly suggested. They also liked the fonts in "FARMS" and "Grand Ledge" as is.
They did go for the idea of changing the word "Farms" to white - which was a good suggestion and a nice improvement.
I also snuck in the red outline around the word "FARMS" and ditched the "period" after "MI."
They didn't want the box borders - although I kinda liked them myself.
So, in the end - it was another compromise.
Thanks to EVERYONE for your suggestions - which some were able to be implemented and made the design better than the original.
Heck - I didn't even think I'd have time to do anything different at all, but I ended up doing the rig tonight instead of yesterday evening...so I at least had the opportunity to run some of these different ideas past them - last minute.
Here's what is ended up looking like... there was a LOT of room for additional possibilities on other fenders/panels - but they are nice, conservative country folk and I think they thought what they got on the door was a radical - even slightly scandalous look for them.
Great people though - and fun to work with. I couldn't have worked for a nicer couple.
Here's the finished piece - and thanks again to everyone, as well as those providing the comic relief.
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
Todd, that turned out looking very nice. I like the design elements better seeing them on the truck. Like was mentioned, I think it does look better ON the truck without the borders as well....
Glad they loved it!!!
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
Looks good mate! Very clean and smart.
PS: What's all that funny white stuff on the ground?
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Thanks guys...
Jon- that white stuff is *devil's dust* LOL.
Man, I'm starting to despise winter!
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
Nice work Todd!
David, I'm seeing a pattern in your design work. Seems to me you created something similar in Yarrow... minus the bar code.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
You have snow now? It hasn't hit here yet. Looks good.
Posted by Dan Beach (Member # 9850) on :
Looks good on the truck.
The rest of it is screaming for some pinstripe accents though . . . Shame you couldn't get the upsell.
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
Hey, Looks good, Todd.
No barbed wire and cow skull?
Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
Quoted: Shame you couldn't get the upsell.
Yes, imagine if you could have sold it in full color.
Then again maybe not! It was playing along on this anyway. Great job Todd.
I quess with this one it would have needed the pinstripes to make it POP!
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
I have to apologize. I forgot the torn metal with claws sticking through. I guess my design instincts still need work.
Donna, in Yarrow, while everyone else was making a bug, I created an entire ecosystem. I hated to waste all that Magic Sculpt left over from the other projects but I guess, after looking at my "creation", it could be debated whether or not the material was saved from being wasted. And yes, the overall design of my ecosystem was about the aesthetic quality of the average wrap.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Where are the dimensional elements? I wanna see 3D eggs and some cow pies. Other than that, it looks good, Todd.
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
......![[Applause]](graemlins/applause.gif)
Maybe scale Farms down in height a tad.
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Bash]](graemlins/bash.gif)
