This morning I step from office to house for five minutes, only to return and find that a customer has picked up his $50 worth of signs without paying. A quick phone call to get him back to pay nets only his indifferent attitude that he "might" be able to make it in today. Otherwise, he will be out of town for most of the week, i.e., unavailable.
I'm too angry to give any details of the irrelevant backstory to this, so I'll just ask the question:
What would you do?
And no--we aren't close enough that he had a right to do this.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
Put a "back in 5 minutes" sign on the door & lock it before ya walk to the house.
Tell him you can take his credit card info over the phone so he doesn't have to come the whole way back to the shop or remember to write & mail a check.
No, he didn't have a right to do this. But how long was he suppose to wait hoping you were coming back?
Be glad that this time it was a customer picking up his order & not someone walking off with something more important or valuable.
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
What kind of business is he in? Just head over to his place and help yourself to about 2 grand worth of products.... tell him you might or might not be in to pay soon... you might be out of town a while... or if he wants you can just call it even.
After he pays, return his products.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
How many times have you said these words " what kind of moron leaves their place wide open "
Posted by Len Mort (Member # 7030) on :
I always leave lights on, door locked and a sign in window. Be right back, gone to lunch, gone for coffee or working on job site. To get to the shop they must drive right by sliding glass door in the back of the house and you will hear them when they drive by.
Then again just don't leave the items where it may be readly seen.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
Isn't it called theft if someone comes in without your being there, and takes something that doesn't belong to them?
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
he stole product from you.. His indifference shows he really don't care..call the fuzz and bust his rotten butt.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Ditto to Kissy!
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
Lectures on locking doors well taken, but house is only 30' from office and 99.9% of my customers in that past 11 years realize that's where I am because there WAS a sign on the door that SAYS that's where I am. And he knew that. He's just an *******.
I did think about the police angle!!! That would be hilarious!!! But I definitely won't go that route.
You guys are making me feel much better!!! By the way --- I think I know where these signs are going to be come tomorrow.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
did he put them up?
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
He should have them zip tied to his fence tomorrow--they aren't very big.
They may just be gone when he comes home, but I'm not 100% sure where his property is. I have an idea tho. And his address!!!
I may be small, but I'm scrappy!!!
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
from this point forward.. he would pay an extra 5 bux for every order he ever made.. guaranteed,,,
Posted by Anne McDonald (Member # 6842) on :
If he orders signs again add 10% to your usual price. It's called &%$#@ tax
He sounds like a most unpleasant fellow. Do you have a video surveillance so you can see your workspace when you do pop over to your home?
My mother set up a very basic system in her store, it didn't actually record anything but looked the part and it did deter a lot of petty thefts. My 2c worth Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
By my former post, I meant to be grateful he took only the sign, and not some tools or anything else readily removable...it could have so easily been so much worse.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
I run a pretty loose ship in a fairly small town. People come and get stuff when I am not here all the time.
I always leave a note or instructions (sign is in office, please leave check on counter) on the door if I will be out, and I always call to try to set up a pick-up time first. And I give them their total then so they can be prepared to pay when they get here.
People get their stuff and leave a check or cash in a designated spot. I have only had maybe two people take stuff and not leave payment. They usuallt send a check within a few days.
It works OK for me, sometimes even better than the people who come to get things when I am here and miraculously forget their check book. I'm talking signs for regulars. If they are a slow-pay type I would not leave the signs in the office, but meet them in person.
It sounds like your client was in a hurry as he is going out of town. It's not OK that he took the signs and then blew you off on the phone, but I am sure he will pay you ASAP once he gets back in town.
I have had signs sit here for up to three months waiting! And I waited about 10 months one time to be paid $75 from a new client who came to get her banner but was in a big hurry so I told her it was OK for her to mail me a check.
I wouldn't take his signs down just yet. He might be the one who calls the cops!
Love....Jill
Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
at this point here is nothing you can do but wait. "might" translated means never.
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
Isn't it only fifty bucks? I think your response is as if it were thousands.
Posted by Deri Russell (Member # 119) on :
I have the same thing with my clients as Jill. And out of the 15 years in business I have only had 2 problems with people paying. (maybe that's because I have a 2nd degree blackbelt though, dunno ) I would be willing to be that only about 30% of my clients pay me when I give them the signs. As Rick says, relax man, you are going to put yourself in the hospital with a heart attack. If he was the type of guy that you thought would rip you off why are you doing work for him in the first place?
Ooooohhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmm. Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
Seriously, having got that kind of attitude over the phone from this scumbag, I would call the cops on him. What he did was theft, no question.
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
Derri and Jill, you are right on. I have a pretty loose and open shop policy.
The anger over this has nothing to do with the money, it's the proverbial principle. Plus this is just one of those customers who feels it his job get under your sking, even going so far as to walk you thru every step of even the most bone-headely simple layouts as if you just learned how to type the day before he got there!
The anger also comes from the ridiculous backstory of this guy just pushing my buttons for two weeks straight over this sign and then he does this.
Anyway, I have anger issues sometimes...
But my decision has been reached ...
$50 actually is a small amount, a small amount to let slip for awhile, because I know that he is only doing this as a way (in his twisted mind) to teach me a lesson. He tries to demean people in every way he can--I think because he once had a very successful business in town that has left him fairly comfortable. So whether he pays or not (and I suspect he will, with his trademark overbearing attitude) it gives me a perfect excuse next time to be rid of him or refer him to one of the other sign shops in town and tell him that this is not the way we do business.
I needed an out and for $5 worth of plastic and vinyl, he gave it to me.
It's not my preferred method of flying off the handle and making a total idiot of myself, but it's the one that has worked best for me over the year!!!
Posted by Tony Ray Mattingly (Member # 469) on :
quote:Originally posted by Russ McMullin: Isn't it called theft if someone comes in without your being there, and takes something that doesn't belong to them?
I don't exactly how the laws are in the state that this occured but, in the state of Kentucky, If a person enters a BUILDING with the intent to committ a crime, then he has committed a burglary which is a felony. Entering into an area which the person has no right to be is criminal tresspassing. There are different levels. Each one depends on the level of privacy that a person would assume. Such as going into a fenced area would be a higher level. Just a simple theft would only be a misdermeanor not committed in an officers presence which an officer would not be able to make an arrest.
It would probably come down to the police advising to take out a warrent on the person.
If it was me, around here you can call the police and have a report made by phone and obtain a police report #. Then, if you have all the person's info, take out a warrent on the person. I would really try for the burglary. If you do not have all his info, call the police they SHOULD be able to provide the info so you can take out a warrent.
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
Come on people, make business decisions with your heads, not your hearts. Just give him a few days and if he doesn't show up with payment. $50 isn't worth the negative energy and backlash. Yes you could file a police report and have him arrested but in the long run you'd probably lose a lot of business. I also agree with Curtis; tack on an additional $10 or so to subsequent orders for a PIA fee.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
PS I forgot to mention that there is nothing worth taking in my office, that's why it's always unlocked! No plotters, no equipment, no tools. Love....Jill
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
Guess who came in to pay!
I bit my tongue while he tried to play all nice and sweet. So tired of this guy. Since he did pay (guess he lied about being out of town just to irk me) I'll just play it by ear and next time add the PIA tax-!!! And hide the signs!!!
Still, it irks me. Good thing we can all come here to vent, where no one actually gets hurt, insulted or arrested-!!!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
PITA tax... and hiding some embarrassing typo's in his next job (embarrassing to his company)
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doug Allan: and hiding some embarrassing typo's in his next job
I would get myself into so much trouble doing this if I had my own printer. Tiny text, similar color to the background behind it, maybe just enough transparency for it to barely show up. Nobody would ever see it unless they studied it up close and for a good long time.
On the other hand, when people do start discovering these little easter eggs, it could become one of those things where people expect it all the time and they start looking at everything you do just to see if there's a funny hidden message somewhere. Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
i work from the house, and my shop is 50 ft from it. the only easily accessed door to it is on the side that faces the house. that being said, that door is usually unlocked or wide open. i also do some vinyl work on the house carport, since the plotter and computer are in the house. on the wall near the door i have a white plastic sort of in/out office thing you see on doctor offices so the can put your file in it. on it its say: A SIGN MINT PLEASE LEAVE NOTES OR PAYMENTS IN THIS CONTAINER. THANK YOU. so i never feel ripped if the money aint there, i call and ask them....WHEN CAN I EXPECT PAYMENT?
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
My question is...if this guy is such a PITA...why is he still a customer?
I would have fired him long ago!
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
Old Paint,
There's a printshop in the neighboring town who runs his pickup and delivery exactly the same way!
Si,
You and my wife would have blast ripping me on that question!!!
This customer's most irritating trait is that he wants to stand directly between me and the computer screen while I do his layouts, insisting on scaling everything in tiny, tiny increments until he's got it right back to where I had it in the first place!!!
The PIA (aka PITA) tax should begin to cover the liability he brings with him.
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
quote:Originally posted by Michael Gene Adkins: This customer's most irritating trait is that he wants to stand directly between me and the computer screen while I do his layouts, insisting on scaling everything in tiny, tiny increments until he's got it right back to where I had it in the first place!!!
The PIA (aka PITA) tax should begin to cover the liability he brings with him.
Make a sign above your computer that says "Dear Customer, You do realize you are currently being billed my going shop rate of $xx per hour. Carry on. "
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Don't let the customer watch you design on the computer. Anything under $100, have the customer pay up front. Lock the shop door while you're out.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
"This customer's most irritating trait is that he wants to stand directly between me and the computer screen while I do his layouts"
You're thread title asked the question, "What would you do?"
The first thing is not let the guy stand behind me doing the design.
And there are about a dozen other things that I would have done differently, also. Mainly...not getting raging mad. Life is way too short to allow someone else to control my emotions.
Posted by J & N Signs (Member # 901) on :
Fire him. Probably worth the fifty bucks. Consider yourself lucky that it wasn't any more! Put a $50.00 dollar reward ad in your local newspaper for the culprits that stole the signs.
[ September 30, 2008, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: J & N Signs ]
Posted by Rodger MacMunn (Member # 4316) on :
I don't know about you guys, but I've had a couple of customers **** me off when they came & paid their bill............usually when they owe you money, they avoid you. It's often worth $50 or more just to NOT have them as an active customer!
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
Raymond,
GET THIS: I have my primary computer setting on a table because I just can't handle sitting all day, and he LITERALLY tries to stand between me and the screen! It's almost as funny as it is annoying!
Normally I'm a nice guy and fairly tolerant because I like money. And yes, I got paid. And yes, I got mad (not to his face). But it is interesting to see how everyone would handle this situation. We can all learn some things here. Plus it is great to be able to vent here so you don't ultimately do something foolish. Like not locking the office door.
Like I said, the PITA tax will be my approach with him. Plus I will never hurry on a sign for him. He'll be done in the order his job was taken.
If he had not paid, the $50 would have been worth it to see him gone.
And yes, life is too short to allow any kind of stress to get to you.
Only twice have customers pushed me to the breaking point. Once I got so mad I couldn't even remember walking across the yard and threatening to do whatever it was I was threatening to do. Of course he was threatening me first so it was quite a different story.
It ain't worth it.
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
Micheal Gene;
Alot of good advice and quite the variety of opinions has transpired here, the most obvious is fact you aren't ridding yourself of this customer, excuse me, a customer deserves your respect, so I'll assume your version is the truth and step out on a limb here and also consider this person the bad guy, hence he's the PITA...back to it, I'd fire this pita and never look back, as delightful and entertaining as charging a pita charge is, it like the preverbial wind, will eventually enlighten more than just him, your other customer base will catch wind of it and be left to always wonder if the price you're charging them includes a pita charge as well...if you don't practice such a method, you'll never have to be put on the spot someday w/a good customer on that particular subject and left w/descision as to lie or not, which is also taboo...I'd not entertain such an idea, rather, I'd be up front and inform them your company can no longer do business w/them, the reason, past performances...and let it go....
To put it in another view, is $385 a month for high blood pressure medicine and another $290 for heart medicine worth putting up w/his brand of doing business? That is a viable question you should answer for yourself, like me, you sound as if anger and intimidation was tool of doing business when set upon w/problems such as these, sure, I'll be first to tell you, I used my fists to settle all arguements in the past, and now those figures a month are my reality and will be till the day I die, because I didn't have the sense to not get mad and let the adrenalin take over...of course it felt good at the time, but longterm effects also included customers that were terrified to do business w/me, something that I found out years down the road and definitely to late to benefit from it's discovery...cool your jets, rid yourself of negative notions and thoughts, if something positive can't come from it, rethink relationship and end it, be done w/constant worry, it's not just the immediate reponses that will harm you, it's the constant reminder that keeps your blood boiling, which isn't condusive to good health later, when you'll need it the most, besides, it's the better man to step aside....my two cents worth, I know, it looks like a $1.40, sorry... Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
mike, the PROBLEM IS YOU, MR NICE GUY))))you shoulda, coulda, woulda PUT HIM IN HIS PLACE THE 1ST TIME HE GOT INTO YOURE SPACE!!!!!! iam a PITA about people TOUCHING MY MONITOR!!!!! nothin P.O.'s more then some doo doo putin his FINGER ON MY MONITOR!!!!!! I DONT DO IT, & DONT LIKE ANYONE ELSE DOIN THAT!!! they come here and i start to do them a lay out.... as soon as they reach their hand out to point at whats on the screen, i politely say,"you can point but you touch that screen and iam gona break youre finger." and then its eye contact, and i got a big smile on my face!!!!!!!!! they dont get that close EVER AGAIN!!!!! its called "setting boundaries." iam same way if iam havin a conversation with some one, and they get to close........i put a finger in their chest, and gently but with pressure, tell them please dont do that!!!! MY SPACE IS MY SPACE.....
[ October 01, 2008, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Anne McDonald (Member # 6842) on :
Is it a PITA charge if you are actually charging him for the time he stands with you altering the design? Charge by the quarter hour or part there of and let all of your customers know that's how you charge.
That's not PITA that's a good way of getting paid for your time Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
The tax is a legal requirement on your part, not something to administer as a penalty when you feel like it. Should you be faced with an audit, you could become real angry when you're faced with the bottom line. Please be fair to yourself.
Another tactic would be to see how long it takes to make this person your friend, someone that would not want to abuse you. Imagine if you had thrown in an extra sign with a note so it's clear that it wasn't a mistake? Give him something to demonstrate that you are in control. When you get angry, you're giving him control over you. This might not be someone to get rid of, it might be a gift for you.
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
Rick, the 'PITA tax' is not an actual tax, nor is it a separate line item on an invoice. It is simply that mental note that you know a customer is going to be a problem so you bump up their prices by about 10-15% in order to cover yourself for the extra aggravation...
I have a customer who can order $5,000 worth of signs in 5 minutes and I don't hear from him until he picks them up.... but I also have a customer that every $50 sign takes at least 3 proofs, multiple phone calls, and a couple visits. The second one is going to pay a higher price than normal....
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
I like that Rick! I agree, sometimes adversity in circumstances, or people can be a gift to us. helps us to grow if we learn by it. Your comment is causing me to think about things, thank you!
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
hmmmm,
one would guess that many of you have had a customer just like this one!
It is true that he, like many customers out there, has allowed himself to be in control, and we, like many businesses, have inadvertantly allowed it.
The reasoning behind charging him more is that we have given him nothing but the best of bargains from the beginning because he has allowed his to pick from our scrap pile and build odd-sized signs that most people can't use. He has shown very little realization or appreciation for this, so the PITA charge is really just the prices coming back to where they should have been in the first place.
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
Ahhhhhh... "scrap pile"! Get that word out of your vocabulary and never ever use it with a customer. You don't generate scrap; you generate "off cuts". Scrap has no value; off cuts have value. Yes it is semantics but it works.
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
Jon, thank you for clarifying the PITA tax.
Posted by Nikki Goral (Member # 7844) on :
Seems everyone forgot to mention the downpayment or "pre-payment" for jobs under x dollars and the contracts etc. that would normally accompany a discussion of this length. 2 cents
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
My favorite saying: That's not scrap, that's profit!
'course sometimes it is just scrap.....LOL
but I am more lenient when someone's willing to take an odd-sized piece of "profit" off my hands!
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Bump the bill by $25 bucks, tell him to knock on the house door next time (most of my customers do anyway) and let him know that what he did is criminal...theft of property. Unless he left a check or cash, he took something that was yours, not his.
If he doesn't agree to all of the above, tell him to go somewhere else...permanently.
The first customer I want to see is one who knows how to do business. The LAST ones I want to deal with are the $50 brain dead idiots who are not worth the aggravation like this...or the subsequent ulcers they cause.
Your shop, your rules....POST THEM! Rapid
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
Money is money, but at what cost? If you were raking in thousands from this guy, it might be worth it to hang onto him and add the PITA tax. But for chump change, I wouldn't even turn on my computer for him personally.
Next time he calls, double your price and tell him your deadline is a month away before you can even see him if you can't outright fire him. He won't be back and your blood pressure can stay down.
It's about choices. You can continue to 'take him on' and play games, and learn to control your anger around him, or just make a choice to stop the nonsense if it's a proven deal that he does business like this continuously. If you continue to deal with him, you're also chosing that route.
I guess what I don't understand is why.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Frank's post speaks volumes!!!! Luckily, I've learned to control my anger before it reached that point. I've also learned that there are some people in this world that just "don't get it". They are damn near impossible to deal with. I have a few members of my family that fall into this catagory, some of whom I basically have little or nothing to do with, it's just not worth it. Customers of this ilk are pretty easy to spot. I will do my best to deal with "difficult" customers and actually have a great deal of patience when it comes to "difficult". Cross over the line into "unreasonable" and I refuse to fool with them.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
It's interesting to see the difference between small town signshops and bigger Community shops. Here in Fergus, it's still not uncomman for roadside vendors to just leave a cardboard box. Everyone just works on the honor system.
This is just a blatant promotion for Letterville. If you feel $50 is nothing, why not become a Resident and help cover the costs of running this meet? With more and more Suppliers cutting back on advertising, the additional income is more than welcome.
Well said Mr Shortreed!
Posted by Tony Ray Mattingly (Member # 469) on :
quote:Originally posted by Steve Shortreed: It's interesting to see the difference between small town signshops and bigger Community shops. Here in Fergus, it's still not uncomman for roadside vendors to just leave a cardboard box. Everyone just works on the honor system.
This is just a blatant promotion for Letterville. If you feel $50 is nothing, why not become a Resident and help cover the costs of running this meet? With more and more Suppliers cutting back on advertising, the additional income is more than welcome.
Where does it say your membership is due? or do you send out e-mails? Mine has got to be due.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Not sure about everyone else, but I get a reminder email from Barb.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Hey, I'm sorry to say this . . . but it's just SO darn EASY to say . . .
Have you ever noticed the people who, quote: get "ABSOLUTELY RAGING MAD" and then ask, quote; "what would you do?"
. . . are often the same people who could have EASILY avoided the enraging situation in the first place and who also have some of the silliest responses to solutions provided by those who would humor their dilemma.
Meanwhile, as for what I DO . . . when I finish a job I call the customer to find out when they will come by, just so I can personally make the exchange I worked for, or I might make a provision to deliver the job COD.
I seriously doubt I would question anyone about a customer 'stealing' their signs from my unlocked shop . . . and the only person I would be enraged with would be myself if they did.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
) I would be willing to be that only about 30% of my clients pay me when I give them the signs. As Rick says, relax man, you are going to put yourself in the hospital with a heart attack. If he was the type of guy that you thought would rip you off why are you doing work for him in the first place? ![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Bash]](graemlins/bash.gif)
![[Applause]](graemlins/applause.gif)
Well said Mr Shortreed!
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
