Here is a pic of a recent hdu sign that was vandalized, double sided, between poles. The two pieces seem to match up ok, so is it salvageable? I was thinking rods joining the two pieces together along with Gorilla glue. It does a have a pebble finish from sandblasting.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
You could glue it back together but that doesn't guarantee it won't be broken again, especially if the person who did the damage is inclined to try out the "remedy".
Good sample of why it is important to sandwich two pieces together over a frame or solid aluminum.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
I had good luck glueing back a small single sided sign. After it was glued up I backed it with Dibond. I know that won't work with a double sided sign. Raymond is right about it breaking again, most likely not at the glue joint but elsewhere. So unless you could drive the rods the length of the sign, you will leave other areas exposed.
Posted by Robert Beverly (Member # 1907) on :
David
Run two 1/8" flat plates of steel along top and bottom, attach with screws into the foam, paint to match. this is all done after you have glued the pcs together.
Robert
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
An HDU sign we did sixteen or seventeen years ago became the subject of a teenager's karate kick right after installation and looked like yours when done. It was between two post structures and resting on a base unit.
We told the customer we couldn't guarantee the repair wouldn't be seen but we'd do our best. We got a paddle bit and extension and drilled lengthwise holes through the faces and epoxied threaded rod in the holes and epoxied the sign back together--this was the days before Gorilla Glue. A little working of the joints, touch up and regilding a couple of letters and the repair could hardly be found.
Since then, I've built them as Raymond says.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
I've glued up broken HDU where the break disappeared completely. And I would do what the others said and add the steel at the top and bottom.
For future signs, I would suggest using 2 inch HDU for high signs and 2 one and a half inch thick pieces of HDU sandwiched around a 1 inch square steel tube frame for extra strength because of those hooligans.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Thanks for all the advice. I wasn't completely comfortable with the strength issue when I bid on this job and we even discussed doing this in cedar for that reason. The city didn't want to go that way and I should have pushed harder on doing it as a few here have said.
I will fix this using recommendations here, but they still have two others out there and I think this creep or another like him will be back.
Never again.
Posted by Joe Crumley (Member # 2307) on :
There isn't any good reason to use Screws, or Steel on a HDU sign. Both will cause problems.
It looks as if the panel can be glue back to gether with a liberal amount of Gorilla glue, allowing some to oooze out. That would hide the crack. A sharp chisel and PB's Crack Filler would disguies any fault.
To stregnthen, I'd use a fiberglass cloth across the back of the sign. It would be tougher than the original piece. I found this techique on the Letterville forum a few years ago. Since then I alway back my panels with a thin coat of inexpensive Filon or fiberlass mesh. I've even used cotton musiln soaked in resin as a backing. That way they stay flat.
Since it's a double sided sign I would use some type of "biscuit" joinery (maybe a piece of .25" aluminum) and glue. Before putting it back up I'd add an aluminum angle along the top and bottom (as long as it's a flat shape), just paint it the same blue and it won't be real noticable. Then suggest they add the aluminum angles to the other signs.I like angle instead of flat stock for the added strength.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Joe...you can't use fiberglas on the back - it's a double faced sign.
Didn't take you medicine today, huh?
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
I've run into this a few times in the past and up-sold the clients to wood. It still could be damaged, but it takes a lot more effort Another thought, if this sign is a rectangle, what about supporting it with wood on the top and bottom? It would be a little more durable.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Tony Vickio (Member # 2265) on :
I always inform a "new sign" owner; "Make sure your sign is insured!"
The easiest way to fix a damaged or vandalized sign is with INSURANCE! Make a new one!
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Well this is the city of Riverview's new park dedicated to Lloyd Carr former coach of the University of Michigan. It's insured and there are two more like it. It came back to me totally dusted for fingerprints as they are really peeved about this one.
The director told me about their experiences with the wood signs at the other parks and how they get busted up and vandalized. Still, it takes a lot more dedication to ruin a wood sign than this sign in it's present configuration.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
With such a clean break, I think using Gorilla Glue and clamps would make it as strong as it was before. It would still be vulnerable to the same kind of vandalism, so I like the ideas that Robert and Checkers gave about adding support to the top and bottom. Without sandwiching something in the middle, it's always going to be weaker than wood when it comes to impact.
I hope they caught the vandals so they can pay for the fix.
Posted by Kellie Miller (Member # 2788) on :
Hi,
Everyone had great suggestions for fixing this sign.
When putting screws, eyebolts, etc into HDU, we recommend drilling a hole that is larger than the screw and filling with a good 2 part epoxy. Since HDU is a cellular material, over time the hardware will work itself back out of the material. I believe this is the point that Joe was trying to make.
If anyone would like to try either of our one part urethane adhesives (which would great products to use to fix this) please call or email. We manufacture PB Bond-240 (12 hr cure) and PB Fast Set (30 min cure)
Thanks, Kellie
Posted by Steve Thomas Greer (Member # 4566) on :
Did someone say Magic SMooth yet that stuff works awesome! www.abracadabrasigns.com click on the magic
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Steve, I don't remember anyone saying Magic Smooth (or SMooth).
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
I can see why some would prefer to use Aluminum over steel.
For many, Aluminum is easier to work with since it's lighter, it can be cut with the same tools used for wood and HDU, and there is no rust issue. I buy two part Grip-Gard Aluminum primer from my standard sign suppliers and mix what I need when I need it. For small jobs, a Preval sprayer works well. Grip-Gard also works on steel, another reason I like it.
I think it boils down to the fact that any approach has processes that must be considered and the choice of which way to the solution often depends on a person's equipment set up, comfort level, and experience.
Posted by Steve Purcell (Member # 1140) on :
You have some options here. a.) rout a lengthwise channel at the top & bottom edges and bury t-rods. b.) resaw the sign and glue up over an mdo or stressed skin panel. (I've been using mdo for the structural reinforcement of SignFoam for over 20 years with no failures.)
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
Maybe gluing it together and encasing the whole thing in a wood or metlal frame might be an option. I don't know how much wiggle room you have between the posts, but it would protect the HDU somewhat.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Those of you following this thread may notice a few responces have been removed. One in particular was a blatant personal attack. It was so mean and nasty that removed the post. Other posts that addressed that particular post were also removed because they were no longer relevent.
In the past few Months, we've enjoyed a considerable decline in postings that attack the poster instead of their opinion. I have no intention of returning to those days. Those that insist on ignoring our "House Rules" concerning personal attacks risk having their post privilages removed.
There was also an opinion expressed that talanted people no longer participate in Letterville. Is that so?
I consider all of you talanted. To me letterheads will always include everyone that is interested in sharing and learning. We've only been involved in this Letterhead thing since 1983, but still do our best to respect the original goals. Let's review them.
As Letterheads we strive to preserve the best of our Past, and learn the best of our new technologies together.
Something else to remember. This is our house. We're doing our best to run an online Letterhead Meet. So far, it has been a 14 year meet!
The truth is, many of you "talented" people met here. I have got a few letters from people that don't love Letterville or me over the years. They often claim to represent a team of fellow supporters who don't wish to be identified. It always gives me great satisfaction to know they all came to know each other here in Letterville.
Over the years, we've shared marriages, divorces, births, deaths and and all the other events life throws our way. The fact that we have endured while using our real names is one indication that some of our ideas just may be working.
I apoligize for highjacking David's post, but it was turning ugly. It has some good info in it that I did not want to see deleted. I tend to agree with those that feel this is just an unfortunate case of vadalism and the sign should be replaced by insurance. A few kicks or a baseball bat taken to a car could result in a much greater cost.
Keep the discussion going. Just remember. Address the question without attacking the poster!
Posted by Gary Boros (Member # 8487) on :
Good job Steve S.
Kellie..I would like to ask you for a little more detail about your products, and I think it's appropriate here as it pertains to the variety of gluing procedures suggested. Does Coastal make a 2 part adhesive for adhering fastners as you suggested? Is the PB240 product just for HDU to HDU or can that be used to adhere HDU to dibond or other materials for the sandwhiched construction method? Are any of your adhesives good for use with plastic materials, such as PVC, that contain plasticizers?
Steve Greer..Is your Magic Smooth an appropriate product for HDU to HDU gluing? Can it be used to adhere HDU to dibond or other materials for the sandwhiched construction method? Are any of your adhesives good for use with plastic materials, such as PVC, that contain plasticizers?
Posted by Kellie Miller (Member # 2788) on :
Hi Gary,
It was nice talking to you. I'll send you samples of the PB Fast Set and PB Bond-240. As we discussed, both products work great with other substrates. If you'd like more info on using the fiberglass mesh/drywall screen (people call it different things) for strengthening, let me know. I have the pictures that Chris Lovelady posted on here awhile ago.
If anyone else would like samples of what I'm sending to Gary, or has any questions, please let me know.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)