Hello Everyone. I am feeling somewhat confused by my current situation, so I figured I'd drop a line here. I'll try to give a short version of this. Here goes:
I recently quoted a large 50sqft sign (2 sided) for a shopping center. Just to let you know, I have provided all other signage for the same building...16 businesses, and have a very good relationship with all involved. I have been working closely with the building's owners and leasers. So one biz owner says "I will possibly pay for the entire sign if my sign can be the header". Okay. So now my quote and artwork go to this person who then "takes a deep breath" and decides to get another quote". He was told that he must get a quote for the "Exact Same Sign"; that he must compare "apples to apples". So now I'm wondering, is this guy going to shop my quote and artwork around that I've worked on passionately for the past year? Is this legal? How would you react. Responses are much appreciated as usual. Thanks for listening. -SE
Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
It's common in this business.
Posted by Sarah F.Evans (Member # 7022) on :
That's comforting. However, is there a way around this? A clause on estimtates perhaps. Stating that all estimates and designs are proprietory and not to be shared with anyone without permission...or something of the like? Does anyone else do this? Thanks for your response John. Cheers, SE
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Sarah...this is what goes on all my layouts:
I also watermark the images.
Posted by Sarah F.Evans (Member # 7022) on :
Awesome. That sounds really good. I do watermark designs (proofs & graphics). I also have a clause declaring that my designs cannot be used by anyone other than myself without permission. What I'd really like to formulate is some phrase regarding the quote/estimate itself. I do not think it is right for someone to show your quotes to other sign co.'s. Truly appreciate you sharing your clause with me Si Allen! Over, Sarah
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Sarah,
Get PAID for the design. Break it out of the price of the job and sell clients on hiring you as the consultant to do the design work and write up the specs for the project, then it won't matter that the client puts it out for bid because at least you would have been paid for your effort up to this point.
This way, with a detailed spec sheet written out, anyone else that bids on it really will be comparing apples to apples, and if just so happens you place a bid as well, you have the advantage of already knowing all the specs/costs and the existing relationship with the client.
Posted by Sarah F.Evans (Member # 7022) on :
Sweet! I definitely see where you're coming from on that. I'm gonna ponder what you've said and I truly appreciate the feedback. Cheers, SE
Posted by vance galliher (Member # 581) on :
sara, mike makes a very good point....charge for what you do !........and the fun begins when you get known for the quality of your work, rather than the price they pay....
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Interesting topic for me today. I just wrote a draft, to be slept on and mulled over, of an email I may send to a less familiar branch of an otherwise very important & valuable client.
At the time that it first appeared I would be losing a job I had already offered design solutions on (based on $20K in previous work being given to me without solicitation of competitive bids) I was told I could bill for design time. I declined stating that as long as my designs weren't shared with the competitors, I would not send a design bill. (Don't ask me why I said I would not bill them... I regret saying that now)
A few months later, I saw the sign & was bummed out to realize it was too close to be a coincidence.
Here is 3 images. On top is the ugly & partially illegible layout I was asked to produce. In the center is the rough draft alternate design solution that I offered, eliminating half the logos & 2/3 of the copy. The bottom is the sign, which they now say was a result of providing the same info in the bid request (meaning a rough description of the top layout shown below)
Coincidence or not?
[ July 12, 2008, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
And, speaking of coincidences... another part of this thread is a timely topic for me.
Mike's suggestion is one I finally arrived at after too many big shots wanted extremely involved "quotes" for these amorphous projects that hadn't been thought through nearly well enough to establish how they would be made, with what, if possible at all, or what budget might ever get approved. I bid a few things like this in the early years, only to later find that the "idea" was some peon trying to impress the boss with an unapproved idea, with no budget, or interest from the check writers.
Anyway, I had the best laid out request for bid that I've ever received at the first of the year, but for an architectural signage project of over 500 signs, and what later materialized as a price tag of $20K... it still required too much homework for me to bid for free.
By this time I had successfully sold my consulting service, as Mike suggests, many times before.
What I explained to my client is that any sign shop could write up an articulate looking quote from their "specs", that could still have almost a $5K range of prices, just by cutting corners, or not cutting them. I told her she would defeat the purpose of competitive bidding if she solicited bids from the documentys she was providing, even though they were far better than I usually get.
She approved a $3K budget for me to create the complete sign plan, with scale drawings for each sign & extremely detailed specifications for each sign, which resulted in 3 bound sets of a 30 page document (after 3 rounds of revisions & fine tuning, at which point the original $2500 price went up to the aforementioned $3K)
Anyway, The board who were all invloved in the approval of my fee-based consultation idea, loved the resultant sign plan, and although I wasn't the low bidder, I got the job for $20K...
...and... I already had vector files completed for the entire project, which of course my competitors didn't have. I was't the high bidder either... I was the middle bid.
(& didn't leave much at all on the table, according to the 70-something year old firecracker I had been dealing with & come to enjoy a great deal of mutual respect with.)
[ July 12, 2008, 12:39 AM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
Posted by Cody Reich (Member # 8052) on :
What is the easiest way to watermark a layout in CorelDraw? Just leave the watermark in place over the draft? Or can you set it up to show on all PDFs without having to look at it on screen?
quote:Originally posted by Si Allen: Sarah...this is what goes on all my layouts:
