A local has an instant-up canopy (white) that they want their logo on. Anyone have success at this? The polyester ink from Naz-Dar is not reccomended for outdoors. 9700 series? Or maybe the Thermo-Flex iron on material you cut on the plotter? Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
John,
I generally use a vinyl ink on those. It seems to have a bit more bite.
And, as in all things, I strongly recommend testing a small sample first. Murphy's Law.
Posted by Bob Noyes (Member # 8317) on :
I just completed a project with a polyester tent that involved the placing of logos and text on all 4 sides (and Flaps). I used the FabricBrite Material from Creative Banner Systems. After a few cutting issues to start, a few adjustments with speed and depth and it worked fine. Application went well (stuff sticks to air). Applied heat to it and used my rivet brush to work it into the fabric. Make sure you use high tack Application Tape.
First time in use the client had to deal with wind and downpours. Says it worked great.
Posted by John Byrd (Member # 825) on :
Bob, I thought the same thing but worried about longevity. When I went by to see the customer, she took me to the storage area to show me the canopy, and there was the material, all wadded up in a small box. I'm sure it will be treated that way after the graphics are applied and be in that box 360 days of the year. I would like to hear from someone who has used for your application and has seen the results a year or so later.
Posted by Bill Modzel (Member # 22) on :
John, We've screen printed them with NazDar's DA series catalyzed nylon ink. It's expensive and nasty stuff but it's pretty much indestructible once it's cured. I've seen old street banners that we've printed that the nylon was faded and shredded and the ink was the only thing holding them together.
I've also used the adhesive dacron that Bob used and have heard no complaints but haven't seen the product myself after any time has passed. I took one extra step before applying it and that is buffing down the gloss of the tent with 400 grit wet sandpaper used dry. It was subtle but it helped adhesion.
I want to reiterate that you absolutely have to use high tack transfer paper or you can't even lift the stuff off the backing. I've used straight 3" masking tape and even our removable adhesive vinyl for transferring the stuff.
Posted by Sonny Franks (Member # 588) on :
John, I bought the same material from a sailmaker on Lake Lanier and, like Bob says, it'll stick hard to anything. I cut some 24" graphics and applied it to racing jibs (sails) - they get wet, wadded up and unfurled regularly but the graphics stayed put for 3 years, no problem........
Posted by John Byrd (Member # 825) on :
ding! ding! ding! I think we have a winner!
Thanks for all the help guys!
Posted by Kymi Hum (Member # 2140) on :
I do alot of lettering for an awning company, they use Sunbrella material and I used to paint/stencil them with OS enamel, then went to nazdars vinyl ink, then their flock, (didn't have any problems with any of these applications, just a matter of fewer coats and drying times) now they are having me cut Oracal 751 and iron it on. It seems to be working but I don't have much confidence in it lasting very long, although there is suppose to be an awning "system" out there and that is how they do it..? (anyone have info about this?) Anyway this FabricBrite Material from Creative Banner sounds like it might be the ticket if the Oracal fails. My question is has anyone tried FB on Sunbrella and do you have any longevity reports? Anything that sticks to air aught to stick to Sunbrella....right? Wish I heard about this material earlier as my friend who also owns a sign company just had the exact same job as Bob. I think he used the thermo-flex, but we had the same concerns about it being wadded up when in storage. Thanks in advance
Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
they are ironing down oracal 751??!! My awning company irons down HP 3m vinyl. I was wondering if they could move to a lower cost vinyl. they are using the sunbrella lettering system, what are your guys using to iron down vinyl with
Posted by Kerry Hargraves (Member # 6837) on :
I've used FabricBrite (insignia cloth) on Sunbrella. I've had a sample hanging on the clothesline for 2-1/2 years now, flapping in the wind. Other than being pretty grimy it's still in fine shape.
Did one big awning job with it and determined that it should be applied after the fabric is installed. I had to replace about 30% of the lettering that got wrinkled when the canopy was stretched onto the frame.
Didn't have this problem with the EZ-Up since they don't get stretched anywhere near as much when being installed on the frame.
Posted by Kymi Hum (Member # 2140) on :
Bruce, Sorry it took so long to get back with you, just now checked on my recent posts and saw your question. Originally the awning company started shipping the material down to Tampa and having the people that have (you are right) the sunbrella lettering system cut the vinyl (they used 3M hp also) and press the vinyl into the sunbrella, which totally cut me out of the loop with a long time customer. Apparently the tampa folks have a large press 8-10' long and they use low heat for a long period of time...1/2 hr or there about, (this info was told to me by the awning company and she wasn't really exactly sure how it was done and obviously neither was I). I told her that I could do the same thing using (don't laugh...) my t-shirt press and I could provide her with the 3M vinyl also, I would just have to do some testing to get the right heat and time etc. Well, I bought a 50 yd roll of white 3m thinking I was back in the game, then they get a rush job for red and blue...all I had was oracal, which we decided we would have to try since there was no time to order 3m. It worked...(so far) she said it looked and acted the same as the ones from Tampa. So now she wants the oracal and says she will just use her hand iron and have me provide the cut vinyl. So they have a few jobs out there, some from tampa (who have a tried system) some with 3M and Oracal 751 that I pressed on with much higher heat with about 30-45 seconds, and a couple jobs that she used her regular clothes iron. Honestly, I have a hard time believing that vinyl is going to stick to sunbrella for any length of time and I have lots of painted awnings out there that still look great several years later, and I sure as heck can't figure out how I'm going to iron on vinyl up in the air (not) if and when it does fail and will I have to eat it (oh yeah)???. I guess the awning company is just trying to make the profit instead of me, although I don't think I ever charged them more than $300 for even a painted 16 footer. Also I think that the low temps and longer press times (which I found out after pressing my jobs) might make the vinyl really sink into the sunbrella and kinda weld together. I know mine wasn't welded into the material as they decided to change the red to white and i was able to pull it off, it took a little more effort than I expected but still no problem. So I guess it is just a wait and see thing. Trying to get a long time customer back is probably going to cost me in the long run. And now that Bruce has replied, and I just found the website I see that the Sunbrella Grapic System (http://www.sunbrella.com/na/en/graphics.pl) is a heat and vacuum system that does "weld" the materials together, I really think I'm gonna be in deep do-do. If I had only done a little more research...I'm such a goob. Hey maybe it will last 5 years (like the Sunbrella systems warranty)...ya think?
Kerry, Do you have to use any heat to apply the FabricBrite? cuz I'm getting out of the ironing business...
Posted by Kerry Hargraves (Member # 6837) on :
I used heat on the FabricBrite when I did the EZ-Up canopy, but it may not have been necesary. On the Sunbrella - no ironing. Just rub it down as best you can. The instructions recommend waiting 24 hours before exposing the material to the elements but I never get that much time. The awning cover goes on the frame, I apply the lettering and the whole thing gets installed right then. So far everything has stayed stuck.
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
I just finished a couple Easy-Ups made from that stuff. After all the questions and research and being told what won't work, I tried a quick stroke with some thinned 1 Shot and a black fitch. Worked fine.
![[Confused]](confused.gif)