Two years ago a very large company had us make signs for all the meeting rooms of their Canadian offices. Their corporate sign standard called for all the copy to be in a specific font that they had someone build specifically for them. They could only provide the font in Mac format and we are PC/Windows based. After a few unsuccessful trys at geting the font converted to work with Windows I convinced their graphics design person to type the text on her MAC convert it from a font to curves and email it to me. This soluton worked fine as there were only 15 signs with limited copy.
Today the client called and said we are ready to talk about employee name signs for their office or workstation. Probably 500 names involved. I know the custom font available only in Mac's font format subject is going to come up. Does anyone have an idea as to how to "make" a PC version of a MAC font? How would you go about getting all the upper and lower case characters, accents and pucuation marks in a format that you can typeset a lot of names on a PC.
Most likely we will be cutting the names in vinyl once we figure out the Mac font problem.
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
There is one solution. But it requires a mac, which is part of your problem. You simply put the font into the macintosh version of fontographer and tell it to generate a windows version TrueType. Problem solved. Except that you need a mac ... and fontographer for the mac!
At one time I know there were old convertors out there for this, but they won't work on these "newfangled" computers.
Any of you letterheads know of any new mac to pc font convertors? Let's don't leave this guy hanging-!!! Otherwise he'll have to send the font to me on a CD so I can do it for him-!!!
mike
Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
This sounds like the very best excuse I've EVER heard to buy a Mac!
With a Mac you can now run windows (faster than on a PC) for the programs you don't want to or can't switch to. Best of both worlds!
I've now had my Mac for a few months... and I'm ready to do a complete change as we upgrade our system in the next while.
Good luck with your challenge!
-grampa dan
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
Chuck, I'll give it a try if you like. Can you email it?
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
This is a very good reason to never buy a MAC.. Proprietary concepts are bad.. No matter what the platform. There are just a few fonts that have not been issued in both PC and MAC versions.
On the other hand,, Using MAC only will make it impossible for grandma to come by with her nephew art. And makes it hard for jonny low baller. But on the other foot. If I said I accept ONLY mac files then I would've lost a small number of jobs..
And finally I have never come across this challenge. yet..
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I'm not sure I understand.....
My pc fonts work fine on my mac....I just saved a Mac illustrator file on disk with 4 different fonts on it and it opens fine on my pc....
You just need the font on your system to be able to open it up from either a pc or a mac - - don't you?
Works for me.
Even 500 pieces of text doesn't seem like a big deal to convert to curves.... they simply select the fonts convert them to curves, save them as an .eps, .ai, etc and send them to you.
quote:This is a very good reason to never buy a MAC.. Proprietary concepts are bad
Curtis - you're showing your smug pc bias here....bashing platforms again?
I like both platforms myself.... and am open-minded enough to use and enjoy both successfully.
I work between a mac and pc everyday without a problem. How "proprietary" is opening up an Illustrator and Photoshop file from a PC on a Mac? and vice-versa? MS office files? No problem...
Like Dan says....the new dual OS Macs are the best of both worlds... if you do have an application such as CorelDraw that is PC only (which used to be available on Mac - showing you the more widespread industry standard of Illustrator over Corel) you can simply boot the new macs up into windows and work as you would on a pc only machine. It's great!
Here's a couple good reasons to consider buying a Mac:
Let us know how it works out for you.....
[ May 09, 2008, 07:13 AM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Bevin Finlay (Member # 2159) on :
Hope this doesn't turn into another nasty Mac versus PC bashing, as that won't really help Chuck out with his situation... lol
Having said that, I thought I would chime in here for the benefit of anyone who has been considering buying a Mac. I'm with Dan on this one! Purchased my first Mac at the beginning of the year... a real kick-but desktop Mac Pro and I love it.
It is just a pleasure to work on!!! With Windows XP loaded onto it, and running faster as Dan said, I can work in Omega or Corel, etc, when needed, and open and save files back and forth to the Mac side of the system like it was all one operating system.
A couple of times now I have opened files for another sign company that they were having trouble with... so I don't think Grandma's nephew's art would be much of a problem. As for Jonny low baller... you get what you pay for!
By the way, I still use my PC laptop and have no problem in doing so.
I'm sure you will get this worked out Chuck, as there are plenty of good people on here to help!
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
Hey, Russ,
you on PC or mac? both? perhaps? I've got nothing on PC that will open his mac font to get the conversions process going. My antique iMac is for that. (assuming he isn't dealing with an opentype, my old fontographer will open it, I don't have fontlab for mac). But I just think it's pretty lame and elitist that designers won't supply both mac and pc fonts. If I had done that, I would have lost more than 90% of my font sales over the last 10 years.
mike
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
Mike, I have a Mac and a PC. On the Mac I have the newer Fontographer, and on the PC I have FontLab. At least one of them should be able to open it. Did he send you the file?
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
Russ--
That should do it-!!!
No, he didn't send it to me -- he'd have to snail mail it to me. My server and computer usually crushes incoming mac stuff. my imac isn't on the net. The newer fontographer on mac will do the job no problem. Of course, if it is in OpenType format, I can't promise what you'll get. Don't know on that one.
What the company or Chuck should do is to ask the supplier (assuming the font was actually purchased somewhere) to generate and sell them a pc version.
mike-!!!
Posted by Bob Noyes (Member # 8317) on :
Only true Open Type format Fonts are completely cross compatable between PC and Mac. There are plenty of utilites that can convert fonts from MAC to PC including the one at the following link for CrossFont.It also have a free 15 day trial and only cost $45.00.
Website claims the following. # Convert PostScript Type 1 fonts to OpenType fonts for Windows PC and Macintosh. # Convert PostScript Type 1 fonts between Windows PC and Macintosh. # Convert TrueType fonts between Windows PC and Macintosh. # Generate missing supporting font files (AFM, PFM, INF, PFA, etc.). # Support for OS X data fork fonts (.dfont). # Supports reading Stuffit (.sit, .sea) and Zip archives. # Preview fonts before conversion. # Character outlines, metrics and hinting are preserved between platforms. # Drop font files and folders onto main window for easy conversion. # Automatically search folders and subfolders for supported font files. # Automatically assigns kerning if it exists. # Create font families.
Hey guys, not 100% sure, but I think all fonts are available for both PC and Mac.. just have different names. If you look over the fonts on your PC, you may have the equivalent as the Mac font, just might need to play with the kerning.
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
Bob,
There we go-!!! Chuck should try that. I've used similar programs and they work fine. I figured there was something out there like that that would be more up to date.
Now if we could only hear from Chuck --- that purchase price could be charged back to his customer.
Posted by Chuck Churchill (Member # 68) on :
Thanks to all that have offered ideas and their time to consider my MAC font problem. I am pretty sure there is a solution or two among your replies.
First I would like to explain the situation a little more fully so everyone knows what I want to achieve.
The client is a large multinational (I believe they have office in about 50 countries worldwide). We have done lots of work for their Canadian operation over 15 years. Their European parent company set a worldwide sign standard about 3 years ago that incorporates this font that was commissioned by them for their use only. They want to sell and ship signs to the subs worldwide.
The Canadian Facilities Manger bought a couple of signs from the parent and found it obscenely expensive and time consuming. He then came to us and asked if we could duplicate the look of the pieces from head office. We said yes and he got the blessing of both local and international to proceed with us. In fact he suggested an improvement to the corporate design for meeting room signs to include a slider that would indicate if the meeting room was in use or available. A few weeks later we installed the new Canadian version of the corporate standard meeting room sign at a price they consider reasonable.
Phase II of his redecorating did not happen last year because of budget constraints. 2008...a new budget and time to look at the name plates! The name plate project will involve somewhere between 300 and 500 name plates initially. It will also likely generate 5 to 10 changes a month as staff is added or changed.
In 2006 I got the custom Mac font from them and found some software for Windows/XP that was suppose to convert it. It didn't! I also got them to send me a PC version of the font. TruType if my memory serves me correctly. Most of the characters were missing. Their Canadian graphics designer (a former employee that now runs a small graphics design firm) uses Macs. She willing agreed to type in the meeting room names, convert to curves and email a eps file to us. This worked pretty good but I don't see it happening with 300+ names now and a few every month ever after. Spelling mistakes alone could cause great embarsement to all of us. The time delay would also become an issue when the new hires start appearing.
Now for your suggestions to solving this. A TruType PC version of the font would make our job the easiest. I have three staff members that could knock these out in their sleep on our 4 PCs. When I get to the shop on Monday I am going to dig up the Mac font and send it off to Russ McMullen. I really appreciate his offer and hope his version of Fontographer can make a full PC based font work. I am also going to take Bob Noyes suggestion and see if CrossFont will do the trick. It will probably take me a week or more to do it as we have a very busy dance card next week. There isn't a major rush to get a PC version of the font yet as there is no deal. That may change on Tuesday when I meet with the client!
I see the benefits of the idea put forward by Dan and others to just get a Mac. I think this would help us with some other clients we have. However we have put out a lot of money in the pass 6 months on new equipment, new staff and training. The timing is not right to drop 2 to 3K for a fifth computer. Maybe by the time we actually have to make the signs our situation will change.
Thanks again for all the great ideas and offers of assistance.
[ May 10, 2008, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: Chuck Churchill ]
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
I don't foresee any problems converting it Chuck. I'll just wait for your email on Monday.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Lets get real here!
TTF (True Type Fonts")
It can have a crossover plateform.. You can crossover any file you like.
It is only a text font! Right! Outline it in 'Illy'
Then again 'Chuck',
If this company is that large.. where is your vector file?
I know what I would ask for..
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
Stephen, it's not that easy. If I copy a TrueType font from my Mac to my PC, it shows up as an generic document with a generic icon. If I add .ttf to the end, the icon remains generic, even though the info says it's now a TrueType font. But, if I try to double click it, I get a message that it is not a valid font file. I can't open it with FontLab either. On the other hand, if I copy a TrueType font from the PC to the Mac, it will show up just fine.
In a sense, TrueType fonts for the PC are cross-platform, since they seem to work on both platforms. I'm not sure if there are any possible complications or limitations. If not, it seems pretty useless to buy Mac TrueType fonts, as they only work on Macs.
OpenType is a cross-platform font format with a lot more features. Given the choice, I prefer OpenType for the portability alone.
Converting 500 names to outlines would be a nightmare, especially if any changes were ever needed. Converting the font would be much easier.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Russ
OpenType is a great crossover,. But not everyone uses it.
If someone gave myself a logo then the question would be.. 'TTF or Vector. Outline' Unless I designed it! Then I don't try to resample others works.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
This guy buys old Macs and refurbs them with accelerated motherboards, brand new hard drives and optical drives. I bought a fairly speedy G4 that looked almost new when it came in and has worked flawlessly.
He sells older rebuilt Macs really cheap but I'd consider buying one that is at least new enough to hook up a flat panel lcd display.
Here's an example for $400 including freight. BEST BUY-NEW RAM, HARD DRIVE & SUPERDRIVE! Burn your own DVD's/CD's. Watch DVD Movies! These Upgraded Sawtooth PowerMac Single G4/500's (*optimized) come nicely configured. We install our NEW Pioneer A15 SuperDrive (Burn DVD & CD!) and include Toast 5.2OEM for CD burning only. Burn DVD's with your software. 512MB of RAM Installed. We put in a NEW 80 GB Seagate 7200 rpm Drive for INCREASED performance. We thoroughly clean and rigorously test each unit. Video Card: 16 MB ATI RAGE 128 Pro AGP includes keyboard and mouse. 100MB Zip built (can be upgraded to 250MB +$40. Built in 10/100 Ethernet, NO MODEM - add a built in 56K Modem +$20. It has a spot for the optional Airport card. Install more ram $69.77 for 512MB. These systems come with two each built in Firewire and USB ports. Manuals (.pdf) and free Kitchen Sink CD (a $9.99 value) on system. Aftermarket keyboard and mouse included. Weight: 30 lbs. Dimensions: 17"Hx8.9"Wx18.4"D. Has both DVI or HD15 (PC Style) Video out. OSX Jaguar thru Tiger capable. Was 449.77 SALE $399.77 includes domestic shipping. In stock.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Dave
You must love to spend money! I like to collect it!
[ May 11, 2008, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Stephen Deveau ]
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
We tend to find ourselves on opposite sides of these issues don't we Dave? Without wishing to give offense, I have to admit I can't see the logic in buying a Mac for this project. Even if you buy a Mac, the ability to see that custom font on the screen won't get the signs made. You need software, and the software on your PC won't run on the Mac. Even if you choose to buy the software, there is the learning curve and the time required to set things up. The costs keep adding up. To me it looks like a very good reason to stick with the PC and find a solution for the problem at hand: converting the font.
In this case, the solution is easy. Chuck can email me the file, and I can save it as a PC TrueType font. Simple.
[ May 11, 2008, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: Russ McMullin ]
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Mr. McMullin
Thank You! For your wisdom. I mean this.....
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Russ, always a voice of reason in this ongoing silly debate.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Its kind person like Russ...
Who will be the death of proprietary closed architecture. Long live open systems..
Death to closed loop systems.
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
Amazing.
Someone needs a mac font converted to pc, something super simple that Russ is willing to do to help out a fellow letterhead, and it turns into a forum on mac vs pc -- and suddenly chuck should buy a mac just to type in some names and cut vinyl? My Windows 3.11 hard-drive died last month after 13 flawless, crashless years of non-stop five-days-a-week work. I thought about buying an all-new, all-out, full-blown whatever. Instead, I dug a friend's win95 out of the closet, fired it up, kept going. Total cost: $0.00. My XP machine is jealous.
Chuck just needs a font converted, guys! No biggie! But the opinions are interesting to read.
Let me know how it turns out Russ!
Posted by Mr Curtis Dalton (Member # 7547) on :
Hey Chuck, the problem is probably fixed by now, but this link might help you out for future jobs. http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html , This site shows most of the Mac equivalent fonts to the windows fonts. I do a lot of printing for a Ma & Pa small sign shop that don't have a wide format printer. They are strictly PC based, because the iMac can handle the PC fonts they send I don't have much problems. (I'm not trying to be an a$$ here or continue to PC bash or anything like that.) This small sign shop get request from Graphic Designers to plot or print their work. Just a week ago they asked me to cut vinyl for one of their customers because they were using a Mac font.. "Geneva". I told them "no problem" but if they retyped the names in "Tahoma" on their PC, it would look exactly the same and the customer wouldn't know the difference. Again, just a suggestion that might help you in the future.
As for Dave Sherby's suggestion, that's actually a good idea. Any old Mac from the G3 stage and up can handle a lot of work. Having one in a PC shop only means you can do more work then the shop without both options. (that's not bashing.. just common sense.. calm down.. hahaha.)
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
quote:proprietary closed architecture. Long live open systems..Death to closed loop systems.
Why do I picture someone with pitchforks, billyclubs, and torches shouting this??
Not sure how a computer that can easily run two different operating systems would be considered proprietary or closed loop......
Wouldn't *closed loop* be the system that can't run another os.....verses the system that can run both?
In any event.... long live open minds that see the benefits of either system.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
Chuck, are you going to send that file over?
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
Russ, when ya get that font done post a pic of what it looks like. It's got me all curious and itchy feeling. Wait ... that might be something else ...
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
Well, that was easy. No conversion required. Chuck sent me a .sitx file, which my Mac extracted - no problem. I sent the 6 font files back over the network to the PC, and they showed up as TTF font files. Tried them out, and they worked.
Posted by Michael Gene Adkins (Member # 882) on :
Russ,
you're waking up an old memory here ... someone emailed me a mac font many, many, MANY years back, yet when I opened it on the pc (win 3.11), it had automatically been turned into a win truetype. I completely forgot that it would do that. Didn't know why it did it, didn't know how, didn't ask. I just let the guy be amazed. Didn't even know the new windows would still do it. Had actually forgotten all about it until I read your post-!!!
Now --- what were all those mac praisers saying about windows being so incapable of all that miraculous cross-platform stuff? Sounds like windows is plenty capable after all-!!!!
good going-!!! bet chuck is happy-!!!
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
You bet I like to spend money, when it's going to make me more productive. Ever buy a tool to get the job done? It sounded like this was going to be an ongoing job for Chuck. It was just another option. Geez!
And software isn't an issue. You can get an old version of Illustrator for peanuts or better yet the very inexpensive Mac only Typestyler which is the best type manipulation software I've ever worked with.
By the way, I just spent some money on Estimate software. Yes, not cheap, but over the course of the next year or two, I know it will pay for itself in saved time. Quoting prices is my least favorite job at the shop and this software will speed up the process tremendously and be more accurate which will increase profit.
So yes I like to spend money when it makes me money.
And Todd, you nailed it, especially when the new Macs run XP faster than a PC. (as reported by the Wall Street Journal) The PC is the closed loop system now.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Dave, by definition and the current proprietary make up of the Mac, it is a closed system.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
I think either platform is fine. I'm not an anti-Mac crusader. For those who love the Mac interface, by all means, buy what you love.
On the other hand, I take exception to the idea that a Mac will make you more productive, especially in the sign business. If your job involves Final Cut Pro, yes, you need the Mac - since it only runs on a Mac. If you're designing signs and cutting vinyl, getting a Mac will not be the secret to your success. Trust me on this. I have both. They do the same thing.
Posted by Mr Curtis Dalton (Member # 7547) on :
haha, these threads are funny... yeah, all I know is, if you do your homework, both computers can do the same amount of work. For example, don't stuff a VHS Tape in a DVD Player!!
Put Illustrator, Photoshop, FlexiSign, and Final Cut (Mac Versions)on a Mac, you'll get your work done!
Put CorelDRAW, Photo-Paint, VersaCAMM, and Adobe Premiere on a PC, you'll get your work done!
Posted by Chuck Churchill (Member # 68) on :
Way to go Russ! You are my hero.
I got an email from Russ this morning at 10:30 with all of the fonts in a zip file. By 11:30 I had unziped, loaded all 6 TruType fonts on one of our Windows/XP machines, checked them over in Corel X4 and SignLab 5,laid out the facilities managers name, cut the vinyl and applied it to a sample employee name plate.
At 1:30 I took the sample to my meeting and showed it to him. It is exactly what they want (well almost exactly!). There biggest issue seems to be how fast can we turn them around when they have new hires. We decided they will email us a PO/layout form and we will keep a stock of blades and the right vinyl on hand. With the font on a PC in house we can cut and apply to the blade the same day and have it ready for there staff to pick up the next morning on the way to work. They pop the blade into the back half of the piece and the new employee has his name on the door before he is employed.
Now all I have to do it put a price to all of this. Looks like the initial order will have 5 numbers before the decimal point. I was right at about 5 a month for ongoing name changes.
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