Just curious as to peoples thoughts and opinions on pricing on this. By charging by the square ft., what ends up becoming of the waste (IE: the part of the roll that you don't use and can't reuse? You still pay for the entire roll, so why wouldn't you calculate pricing by the amount of the roll that you use? For example, if I have to cut or print something 6 times that's 18"x18" on a 30" wide roll (28" usable), that works out to 2.25 square feet per piece & 13.5 square feet total, but is going to use 23.95 square feet (9.5 feet off the roll) of material and leave you with roughly an 8.25" x 114" piece of waste. Wouldn't going by the foot of the roll cover the material that you'll most likely have to throw away? I thought of this while using 3M 680 reflective that runs around $1200 for a 30"x150yd roll.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Since the name of your company is Phenomenon Designs shouldn't you be selling "design" rather than letters by the pound (or square foot)?
Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
In this case I would charge for the entire amount of special material used including scrap. Then charge for the print or cut as normal.
Posted by Mike Faig (Member # 6104) on :
Cranky, cranky there Mr. Chapman.
Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
We don't do vinyl signs in our shop but like Raymond I am amazed that people charge by the pound (square foot) rather than by the value of the sign.
I was visiting a friend's sign shop yesterday and we had a discussion about pricing... and how he was so concerned about the competition and what they charged...
I'm glad I don't live there!
-grampa dan
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Sorry Mike...no nap yet today.
But since the customer is the one actually buying the material (not me) I'm going to be charging him a lot more than the material cost me. If the customer buys a 4' x 6' MDO sign, he is paying for the entire sheet and I get to keep the scrap for something else.
Must just be getting grumpy in my old age.
Edited to add: Dan Antonelli, in his class Friday, said that most of us have the problem of selling a commodity rather than a design (idea). The drawback of selling a product and nothing else is that someone will always sell it cheaper...and the public doesn't know the difference between your "product" and the product of the guy down the street. I'm trying to improve the image of his business, not sell him a board with letters on it.
Nap time.
[ December 04, 2007, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Raymond Chapman ]
Posted by Kenny Lund (Member # 5559) on :
Ray, I agree wholeheartedly! I just hear a lot of people discussing prices by the square foot and at the place I used to work at, that's how it had to be done (pricing by material usage-their rules, not mine) and was just wondering how other people look at it. The last thing in the world I'm looking to do is be the cheapest guy on the block-been through all that in the t-shirt screen printing market. The shop I work for has the same philosophy - when people come in with the old "so and so said they'll do it for a dollar less", our usual response is, "They know what their work is worth more than we do." Besides, I'm more of a brush & One Shot guy than the hack vinyl jockey!
Posted by Rene Giroux (Member # 4980) on :
That would be why I sold my plotter and the whole vynull stuff that came with it.......
It's like I was born again
Now I sell signs as a whole, not by the pound !
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
Come on guys.... I would think when you are pricing digital printing you pretty much have to charge by the square foot. I mean if you are printing out 100 caution stickers how are you going to charge for value to the customer...I suspect the value of a caution sign that could save a customer a law suit could have a heck of a lot more value than an pretty image.
The fact that Kenny mentioned he thought of this while using reflective vinyl should have pointed out he is likely talking more about production than real high end design. Having an expensive machine that you need to make payments on often means you have to do some "blah" work in order to help finance it. In those cases you need to be competitive. There is no shame in combining the extraordinary with the ordinary, or in just doing the ordinary for that matter.
Kenny, I'd think that charging by the linear foot is justifiable as long as you are putting a reasonable amount of effort into making good use of the materials. You have to pay for the materials. If you can easily gang a couple of different runs then great. The other thing you might consider is running some decals for good customers in the material that would be wasted when printing. If you offer little perks like that I imagine you could probably charge a little more. I'm not really knowledgeable in the ink costs vs the substrate, so it might not be an economical viability, but I think it would be fair to the customer if he is paying for the materials.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Uh oh...now I've got Kelly mad at me.
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
Watch out! After mixing and pouring 5000 tons of concrete, she can whup any Texan that gets in her way. She'll do it by the foot or the "perceived beating", whichever is worse.
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Chapman: Uh oh...now I've got Kelly mad at me.
You'll have to try a little harder than that to get me mad at you, Ray.
David, you slay me. Posted by Talisman (Member # 1869) on :
quote: She'll do it by the foot or the "perceived beating", whichever is worse.
Nice ! Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
Kelly has the best answer. Thats what I would say. I only type with 1 finger.
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
Kenny, when I'm not doing "Mission Accomplished" banners for the President or graphics on Airforce 1.....
You know.. when I doing the normal little signs that Kelly was speaking of I figure by the linear foot. I never even worry about what the 'square footage' of the lettering will be.
I don't advertise that I will cut vinyl for X amount per foot, because the complexity of the graphics and/or setup can affect the price... I also try to consider the value of the sign, but on normal bill-paying signs, sometimes that doesn't make much difference. I can't charge someone $400 a piece for four 12"x18" "Watch for Children" signs, just because I know they'd pay that to keep their kids from getting run over.
I know, I know... many of you would not deign to do such signs... but then again, in several thousand hours of operating John Deere tractors, I've never managed to tear up a transmission, either... (Sorry, Grampa Dan... )
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![[Confused]](confused.gif)
I would think when you are pricing digital printing you pretty much have to charge by the square foot. I mean if you are printing out 100 caution stickers how are you going to charge for value to the customer...I suspect the value of a caution sign that could save a customer a law suit could have a heck of a lot more value than an pretty image. ![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
![[For Your Information]](graemlins/fyi.gif)
You'll have to try a little harder than that to get me mad at you, Ray. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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