I'm doing a boxtruck wrap for a car dealer. I'm wondering what people out there like to use as far as material for a job like this. (with plenty of rivets) I don't think I want to use regular calendared vinyl.
Laminated or no?
My main issue is installation, not longevity. It probably only needs to last a year and a half.
Also, a few tips on installation (heatgun?) would help. I've done plenty of vinyl jobs, but never a full digital wrap and I want to make sure I walk into this with all the proper tools.
thanks in andvance
Posted by stein Saether (Member # 430) on :
for wrapping I think you must use 3M controltac, let you reposition, and stretch to stay. bit costly though
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hiya Dawud, If you don't already have a source, use a reputable printer/supplier for the printing and print on 3M 180C. The "C" means comply, which is a lot easier to install when compared to regular vinyl. Yes, definitely laminate the print with a compatible pressure sensitive laminate or be prepared for some fun. The must have tools I use for a typical box truck or trailer install are: 1 sturdy ladder that will get you to work comfortably at the top of the vehicle 2 half-moon felt squeegees (in case you drop one) 2 gold squeegees (same reason as above) 1 propane torch with trigger switch 1 1" rivet brush 1 Exacto knive and extra blades 1 36"+ metal ruler/straight edge 1 25'+ tape measure 1" & 2" tape (I prefer the 3M blue painters tape) stabilos/markers scissors paper towels/rags cleaners trash bags, and a good pair of shoes These are optional, depending on the graphics and conditions you're working in... A wide brim hat, sunscreen & sunglasses Air release tool RollePro rivet tool Heat gun w/extension cords 2nd ladder and plank work table calculator (if you're bad at math) Make sure the client washes the vehicle the day before the install and, ideally, let it dry overnight. If you wash it the same morning of the install, water can collect in and around the rivets and create adheasion issues during the install. I normally give the truck a wipe-down with Rapid Tac before I start laying out the graphics. Then, I'll layout the graphics on the truck to insure positioning and a proper fit. From there, I'll remove the graphics and store them, in their proper order, some place safe.I'll be sure to roll them up, starting at the bottom so, when I'm ready to install, I climb the ladder and just let the graphic unroll. Start applying the graphics at the rear of the vehicle and work forward, overlapping the panels by, at least 1/4". The technique us use for applying the graphics will depend on the tools and materials us use. However, if you do a search here for Rivetron, you'll find some good info. There's a lot more we can cover, but if you subscribe to sign business (I think) there was an inser in last months edition called wraps or something like that.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
Thanks, especially checkers...You sure you didn't miss anything on the list?
so, the propane torch is to heat up the rivets I assume. I'm not using any application juice on this one, just 3m controltac vinyl is enough to be able to reposition?
oh, and what happens if I don't laminate?
[ October 03, 2007, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: Dawud Shaheed ]
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Dawud, Checkers was telling you to "clean first with Rapid Tac" to insure a good bond.
Assuming as you say that the graphic is temporary - needing only to last a year - I would guess that most outdoor durable inkjet output such as from the Soljet or similar unit will be fine without lamination.....as they are generally rated at 3 year outdoor durability.
To laminate in this instance is a waste of money....and time.
Just make sure that this timeframe is indeed accurate.
Checkers offers good advice....3M comply will allow you to easily and confidently apply and remove all bubbles that might present themselves.
Great stuff for a quick, no-nonsense dry app.
Posted by Deri Russell (Member # 119) on :
Lamination is only a waste of money if you have the confidence and the expertise to deal with it not laminated. The lamination is what makes the product so repositionable, reformable and makes the heat "fix" your wrinkles should you have to take it a portion of it off during install (after it has been stretched). How much is your time worth? How much is your material reprint worth if you wreck a piece? It may only be on the vehicle a year but laminating it will save you hours of headaches in install. And if the truck is a duelly particularly, larger curves around the tires, make your design so that there is no lines that have to stay straight with the top body line.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I'd like a little clarification on the laminate Deri/Checkers:
I'm assuming you're talking about a vinyl laminate.... which adds a thickness to the printed vinyl piece. This adds a degree of rigidity which would make the application less conformable, wouldn't it?
I guess I haven't seen a problem with applying non-laminated prints for a short term project.
Designing elements to compliment, rather than cut through, compound curves is a good idea Deri....elminates visual distortion.
[ October 04, 2007, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
On something large like this that you are unfamiliar with, I think I would be looking for someone to hire for help. Someone who has a lot of experience. Yes, paying them will cut into your profits greatly...but so will screwing up the wrap. You will get the job done and an education in the process so you will be able to do the next one on your own.
Posted by Jake Lyman (Member # 3280) on :
I agree with george. Also anything like that that I have done having it laminated helps alot you dont scratch the print by mistake and it helps to not stretch it also.
JAKE
Posted by Colleen Jones (Member # 1392) on :
Our material preference is ORAJET 3551RA, with ORAGUARD 290 over laminate for vehicle wraps. I agree with Deri! Save yourself hours of wasted time by laminating, it's worth the cost.
We recently wrapped a Sprinter van with customer supplied 3M prints. I was never so happy as the day this vehicle left our shop! We ran into problems with the material easily tearing, lots of bubbles especially around curves, and not enough adhesion around curves. Although we were happy with the memory return that the 3M material offers when heated. You may want to use 3M's Tape Primer 94 for added adhesion around the rivets. 3M has a short application video on their website and they also include tips on using their primer.
Colleen Action Signs & Designs colleen@actionsigndesign.com Mauldin, SC
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
I would suggest using laminated prints for a vehicle also, because if it's going to be washed anytime during the time they have it, the ink will wear off some with each washing, especially if they will be using any cleaning products with aggressive compounds.
When I first started digital printing a few years back, I made the mistake of washing some printed car door lettering with Simple Green, and started washing the ink right off with it.
Maybe the inks are better now, but I've been laminating vehicle lettering since then.
~nettie
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
We all ave to start somewhere Dawud The Controltac with Comply is repositionable and very forgiving material. I suggested laminated because it is, IMHO, the easier to install and it's the material that I learned with. Just avoid the Comply V2 stuff because there is a more of a technique required to apply it. As Todd suggested, you can go without laminate to save your client some material costs. However, for your first install, I would not recommend it, especially if you're installing outdoors or in a warm area. Also, since you're just learning, it will take you more time to install without laminate and there will be a better chance of screw ups. If you want to reduce the chance of screw ups even more, you can even add application tape over the laminate graphic too. But that can be overkill and it will add additional costs a lot of time to your efforts. As George suggested, you may want to sub your first one out and offer assistance to the installer to learn. If you were closer to me, I would have you installing on your own within a few hours.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Dawud, I have sworn never to to attempt an vehicle wrap. Not my thing! I give you credit for wanting to go it alone, but PLEASE take George's advice & hire someone who has done it before to help you!!!! They are right, you may waste so much $$$ by ruining the material.
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
If you use laminated Control-Tac ANYBODY can do a box van. Other than having to work down the rivets there's not a lot to them. Get a helper, preferably one with some vinyl experience, and get to work.
Posted by stein Saether (Member # 430) on :
beware of some of the metalic colored controltacs, i have been adviced they are NOT like the rest and do break easily
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
With a properly cleaned substrate, primer is not necc..
Have to disagree with you on that one Roger. Wrapped three GMC vans last year,all the same material (Comply) all prepped the same way with RapidTac. The one van which I did not apply the 3m primer had tunneling on the tight contours within a short period of time, not severe, but enough to convince me. The other two still look great.
Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :
I do also agree on getting some help; there are people that work for large companies just doing that, and have weekends for side jobs. Whatever you do, please get professional help and make sure they are experienced. As far as everything else, I don't know about laminates, as I rarely do wraps.
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
I appreciate the feedback, lots of good advice here. I'm going to go for it , though. Main reason is, that I've done lots of these on large storefront windows and I'm used to handling big peices of vinyl. Jon mentioned the rivets as opposed to the ones that can just be zipped off and put back. These are the type that can be put taken off, so I'm just going to do that (with the lamination). You guys all talked me into the lamination for so many reasons.
Thanks again...
Here's a few pictures of the design.
Posted by stein Saether (Member # 430) on :
its flat, mostly
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
yep, makes it easier for me. I was originally only worried about the rivets, but what I've learned asking the question was far more than I thought I would.
thanks again.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Sorry Dawud
This layout doesn't work.
If and only in a side by side newspaper add you can get the message.
You are missing to much information space. Please place a lower cap o in the word 'of'
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I'd rather not have such a different layout on each side, but that's the way they want it. I don't like to argue with my customers much, just collect checks from them and make them happy without committing too much of a design atrocity (and I think this one is not bad)
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
I think the layout is fine, but the capital "O" needs to be a lower case, but that's just my opinion. One other thing is that I try to educate the customer on "Not" reversing the copy on the front, the only vehicle that can read it is the one directly in front, that means the thousand of cars coming towards you can't read it, it's cute but it's meant for emergency vehicles only.. again that's only my opinion.. but great advice everyone gave.. Go For It!
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
What Neil said. About the design, "O" and hood lettering.
Studies show that 98.7% of the time you can't read what that lettering is in your rear-view mirror anyway.
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
man, this guy is dragging his feet, he said he loved the design, was ready to do it, and nothing from him yet....
I'll have to drop in on him Saturday... we'll see!
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
YEP! It's a Saturn.
Negative saying for a sports model of the company.
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
I wonder how much and ad company got paid for that?
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Don't know... But I will tell you that it lowers the quality of the manufacturer bigtime!
Doesn't even give a hint of the model name.
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
You're right about that. It's called the "sky" and I put it in the design a few days ago.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
I know that the model is a 'SKY' as I have been a 'Saturn' fan for many years.
I would buy another one in any class tomorrow. But the 'Sky' is something I like to reach for.
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
well, the guy finally bit the bullet and told me to come over and pick up a deposit. Time to finish up the design.
Posted by Sue Brown (Member # 6677) on :
quote:Originally posted by Colleen Jones: Our material preference is ORAJET 3551RA, with ORAGUARD 290 over laminate for vehicle wraps. I agree with Deri! Save yourself hours of wasted time by laminating, it's worth the cost.
I agree 100% on the orajet Our first wrap we ever did was a 16 ft long box truck.. and it was amazing how easy this stuff is to work with.. ..
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
Well, finally got it done last week. It was pretty smooth. I got a guy from a sign shop who does side work to help me out and I'm glad I did. He had the "technique"
Thanks for all the suggestions...(not reversing the copy, adding "sky" to the layout, getting help, I love this board...
Posted by Deri Russell (Member # 119) on :
Turned out great Dawud. Congratulations on a job well done. Pat yourself on the back for me my arms aren't that long.
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Very nice indeed Dawud! Now go back there and get some better pictures for your portfolio! Assuming you're willing to share, is there any more you would like to add about your first experience with wrapping? You said you had help, did your helper do most of the work while you watched and learned? What about the file prep? What media, ink and/or laminate did you use? Were there any surprises? Would you do it again? If so, what would you do differently?
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
Yeah, I definately need to get better pics. It was almost dark when I took those ones. I thought it was quite easy as far as the installation. My helper did most of the positioning and taught me the "technique". Basically, he rolled the image all the way up and slowly unrolled it down as he squeegeed it on. I did all the stray logos on the back, hood and sides, then when I was done with that I came behind him smoothing out around the rivets.
As for the file prep, I did all of that. It was printed on what Coleen suggested ORAJET 3551RA, with ORAGUARD 290. I think next time I'm going to try the 3M control tac though, because I can see where this would've been a problem had I not hired someone for help. Actually, one peice was printed wrong because the printer accidentally set his printing settings different and this is what happened.
sorry for the bad picture (night time) So, I had to come back and fix that panel without the help. It wasn't too difficult. It was a little rougher than the rest of the panels , but the customer didn't notice. I think I'll hire the help whenever I get a job, though. It's worth it. even for the extra hands because working around those rivets is a looooooooooooong process. I'd definately do it again. I made over $1000 that day, I can't think of many reasons why not to.
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