Putting down vinyl I noted that the avery Polo Green 2.5yr old wants to curl and not stick...The 3m and orical some close to the same age sticks geat... I contacted Avery this morning and was told tough-luck... Is Avery having problems again, or is this Averys attitude twards it's market? Even a sorry would have helped me feel a liitle better to go and find a close match and drive to the cities to get the replacment color. Any body else having these kinds of problems with Avery, bad product and bad customer service.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on September 18, 2007 10:37 AM:
I am having to replace Avery reflective roll striping that has lifted from two firetrucks after 2 weeks, applied dry.
I unknowingly bought the material from my normal online supplier, not realizing it was Avery. I applied it hoping that things have changed. Not one bit, apparently. Never again!
Love.....Jill
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on September 18, 2007 10:37 AM:
I believe your window to have a beef about the vinyl you have is past. Looking into manufacturer's literature, you will find that vinyl stock does indeed have a shelf life. While varying from manufacturer to manufacturer, the all have a time limit. They also specify humidity, temperature, methods of storage, etc.
As far as beating up on Avery, I will pass. Oracal is a fine product I recommend highly. Fred Floyd of Carolina Vinyl is an excellent person to buy this vinyl from. He is a real stand up guy.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on September 18, 2007 10:41 AM:
My stuff was brandy-spankin' new...and it was still crap. I will continue to bad-rap Avery at every opportunity. Besides my other losses from other jobs, I just had to buy $110 worth of 3M roll striping as a replacement...but at least I know it will stick! I plan to document this new failure, and try to get a refund, but I'm sure just like last time, the amount will be laughable (if I am acknowledged at all) The supplier WAS aware of many Avery complaints, too...but they still stock the garbage. Love....Jill
Posted by Rick Whitmire (Member # 3443) on September 18, 2007 11:13 AM:
I have never had a problem with Orical ... I wisk a wider color selection was available ... als 3m has worked well... I have a lot of history with Avery on early projects that customers want to match the same colors and look... but i can't trust Avery to stick... thats a major concern to me.
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on September 18, 2007 12:23 PM:
Vinyl does have a shelf life but the bigger question is why on Earth is anyone still using Avery??? It's crap people; the company is crap too!! Stop buying it!!!
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on September 18, 2007 12:26 PM:
Jill, the way you say it "and I applied it dry" makes it sound like it should have stuck better?
Actually it will stick better if the substrate is cleaned with Rapid Tac or TacII, and applied with same. We will soon have lab reports on our website to back this statement, for now visit www.rapidtac.com and watch the videos of the different films being applied wet at freezing temps.
Roger
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on September 18, 2007 12:33 PM:
Roger you have some amazing products. I would not have been able to do several jobs this summer without Tac II. I just miss the vanilla smell. Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on September 18, 2007 02:19 PM:
i hate AVERY.....but they Do have a wonderful red...HP 194C SPECTRA RED....it is red outside and white on the glue side. i have this on a truck i did in 2000....and did another truck fo the same co. 2006....and you cant tell by color which is the newly lettered one. almost no fade or shrinkage.
Posted by Rick Whitmire (Member # 3443) on September 18, 2007 02:46 PM:
RICKY, I agree its crap... but colors when possable need to stay the same... I made the mistake of my inventory being mostly Avery back 5 yrs ago... NOT ANY LONGER. I by no more AVERY.... Rick @ Trick
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on September 18, 2007 02:53 PM:
Rick, what series are you referring to? I'd pass on any A8, just to be safe as that was the product with the shrinkage issues. Look at your tubes and if you notice ANY shrinkage from the edges cut, throw it out. Even old vinyl should stick though. I do remember one colour I had a few years back that for the life of me, had a flaw in the adhesive. Could be a bad roll.
Jill, I've had no probs with the newer updated reflectives, my only beef is the reflectives are abit 'soft', therefore edges tend to flick up easier due to the softness of the product. The older reflective vinyls in Avery had sticking issues, perhaps you were given that old stock? The adhesive use to be an easy release formula that required heat to stay put. The new stuff is much more aggressive.
For any new vinyl I get in, no matter what grade or company, I now always do a 'stick' test on a similar substrate to what I'm planning to apply to. Can't be too careful!
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on September 18, 2007 04:56 PM:
quote:Originally posted by Jillbeans: I am having to replace Avery reflective roll striping that has lifted from two firetrucks after 2 weeks, applied dry.
Jill
Good for you for following the mnufacturers direction. I had an issue with a recent roll of Avery, and Grimcom sent me another roll. I was impressed with Grimco, not Avery. The only way you can hope for reimbersment is to apply dry as directed.
Posted by Greg McRoberts (Member # 3501) on September 19, 2007 08:15 AM:
Avery just plain blows.
Posted by Dana Stanley (Member # 6786) on September 19, 2007 08:34 AM:
I have some A-7 because it was free, as a promotion. Should I use it only for temporary signage?
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on September 19, 2007 12:01 PM:
Dana, request more info on the roll. If it's older A7, I would throw it out. If it's the newer stuff with the more aggressive adhesive, it will be ok. Hit it with a heatgun after application if you are usure. JMO Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on September 19, 2007 12:41 PM:
I miss Univeral and SparCal.
.
Posted by Henry Barker (Member # 174) on September 19, 2007 02:19 PM:
Funny how we all are regarding products.
We have used Avery for years, I don't know how the series match up to the US numbers we have 900 series a 12 year plus cast 800 series a 8 year +cast and 700 series an 8 year calendered vinyl.
We used to use just 800 series maybe its similar to A8?? but had lots of failures, adhesive sat on vehicles but the vinyl lifted so it wasn't a prep issue, all applied dry and we're talking flat areas.
So we switched to 700 series for most everything, and have not had any problems at all, one customer that complained he pressure washed off cast avery in the winter got his stuff changed to 700 and has never complained since.
I too have had issues with Avery reflex, and it was rubbish, stopped using it years ago, we have been using Kiwalite reflex a japanese reflex which is formable and dead easy to remove if you ever have too, doesn't break up in small pieces.
Since buying our Roland Soljet 3 we thought we'd try Oracal, I like the print vinyl but tried some 751c for vehicles and we just can't get on with it, I'm sure its a great product, but find the adhesive far too aggressive. We apply dry, and with Politape clear application tape, and normally pull off a big old length when doing the side of a truck and snap it to a stabilo line, well that works great with Avery but not with Oracal it sticks too quick with no chance to reposition. I guess its techniques but we're back to Avery and happy with it.
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on September 19, 2007 02:25 PM:
I agree, Glenn. Universal and SparCal were slightly stiff vinyls that made weeding easier - and the colors were all good. Plus, they still confomed to irregular surfaces.
Funny thing is, we stil use Avery's black, white, red and blue for our stock colors and have never had any trouble with them. I have had nobody - not one person - ever request any repairs, refunds, etc.
But Jeff Spradling (from my area) had all kinds of trouble with Avery (see old posts here). He does a lot of vehicles - so we're wondering if we had the same trouble too - but since we do so few vehicles (mostly signs people don't get right up next to) maybe that's why we don't see the vinyl shrinkage as much. Nobody is that close to most of our signs. But we didn't even see the edges pulling back on our other vinyl colors of Avery.
If I remember right, it was the glue that was found to be bad. Can somebody refresh me on the final outcome? I know you had to have really good records to be reimbursed for labor - but product got paid for.
So is Avery still a bad vinyl? There's only 4 or 5 companies making vinyl nationally anyway - all the vinyl company's cut off their logs and repackage, right? So there must be other "Avery" vinyls out there - but which? Who does Avery buy their stock from?
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on September 19, 2007 03:53 PM:
like i said..the AVERY SPECTRA RED....A8 is wonderful.....aperently someone else makes this for AVERY. the black A8 i had a big failure with it......shrunk almost 1/2".....and left the glue at original position. nasty lookin and i got a $45 CREDIT from DENVER SIGN SUPPLY....and not a WORD FROM AVERY.
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on September 19, 2007 09:09 PM:
Sparcal was the best! Great selection of metallics too. I still have 14 yr old applications out there that look brand new.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on September 19, 2007 09:16 PM:
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