I am considering upgrading my printer to a Eco-Sol type digital printer.
I am aware that many of you have already taken this step, so I am looking for input to make my decision more informed than just putting manufactures claims in a hat and picking the lesser of several evils.
I am considering the Mutoh VJ series, the Prism JET Extra, and perhaps the HP 8000S.
Any personal hands on experience with these machines would be GREATLY appreciated.
I am not looking for any "my machine is BIGGER than yours'" debates. Only reasonable reasons for why YOU chose the unit you did.
Also what if any "suprises" you got after buying your particular machine.
Did the Cost per Sq. Ft. to produce any given project fall within reasonable limits of what you where promised by the machine sales persons.
Do you have any problems with the cost of maintenance?
Is your machine easy and inexpensive to maintain?
Do you feel that the cleaning schedule for maintaining your machine is reasonable, and cost effective?? {or does it waste unnecessary ink or cleaning solution?}
How was your experience with the supplier? Good service after the sale?
Any recommendations as to who to buy from?
Who to steer clear of?
And help with any areas that I haven't addressed, but are of a very real importance to consider BEFORE making a purchase.
These questions are being asked because I have a brief window of opportunity to take advantage of some REALLY attractive prices on major equipment.
Any and all replies will be GREATLY APPRECIATED!
regards, Bob C.
Posted by Ron Helliar (Member # 398) on :
Bob,
I don't have one of those named machines. But running a solvent machine, I've seen a few things that may be helpful for your choice.
I spend about $100-$150 a month in maintenance fluids, wipes, etc. By the time maint. waste ink, time, and maintenance contracts get involved, you could be looking at an additional monthly $600-$800 (real) costs that many people hide from themselves. The more robust the machine, usually the higher those costs.
Sq. foot costs usually are on the money from published reports. But I do not concern myself with them as they are a negligable part of what and how I sell.
You most likely will never find out the quirks that upset your workflow until a printer is operational. Our industry is such a diverse group of people from retail type to hands on commercial and are usually sold to a particular segment. You generally want to physically walk through the suggested maint. routine on a given printer to get a feel for what you are willing to do on a daily basis.
Sounds kind of vague but hope it's of any help.
Posted by Robert Cole (Member # 477) on :
Ron: Thanks for your insite.
Points well taken. Regards, Bob C.
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
Robert, I own a VJ 1604 and Have been Very Pleased with it. It replaced a Roland 30" which was just starting to wear out on us and Costing us more in down time and parts then what my payments are on the VJ. The Mutoh inks are priced right in line with everyone else's $59 for 220ml and 110 for the 440.
One issue I do run into with our Mutoh is that its printing too fast for the heater to dry the ink so on some of our prints that have a lot of dark colors will be sticking to the back of the carrier on the take up reel. We are looking at a stand alone infrared dryer to add to alleviate this problem. Two things that really Chapped my butt were. 1. All the settings/Sizes are in Metric only. 2. not the end of the world but there is no Automatic cut off. Just would have thought for a $20 something K. Printer they would have this feature.
Just don't have the same major brainfart I had and get a Good Laminator while your financing everything. In my infinite wisdom I thought I could get by with just a Liquid laminator. Well I was wrong. I would take a look at least the Royal sovereign or better.
As for Distributors. I would look for a local Area rep and steer clear of of Sign Warehouse Rebrands. You may pay a few dollars more through a local but at lease they are there if/when you have a problem and you know your getting a true version not a stripped down one.
Posted by Blake Koehn (Member # 5984) on :
I bought a Roland SP-540 last November. I can not say enough good about it.
It prints very economically, I haven't spent a dime on maintenance... I am still working thru the free fluid, cleaning swabs, and wipers that came with it.
It requires no daily routines, I have left on vacation and the machine has sat idle for 2 weeks... came back and went back to printing as if I had printed the day before.
The learning curve was almost nothing on the machine... now color management!?.... that is another story.
Oh!... and did I mention it prints AND cuts.
Posted by Robert Cole (Member # 477) on :
Bill, & Blake:
Thanks for your input. All very interesting comments. I am beginning to see that this is NOT going to be an easy decision.
Not that I thought it would in the first place.
I was at the INDY show last week and this got me thinking about this change.
If I could get a local source for my digital prints, perhaps I wouldn't even consider this move.
Thanks, Bob C.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
I got a coupel printers and was told they are a maintenance nitemare. What really happens is,, if you are handy with some basic common sence and mechanical skills you will be fine. If you are one who cannot start your toaster without a manual then pass on a printer..
Posted by Jerry VanHorn (Member # 4704) on :
my two cents:
we started with Roland SP300 three years ago- great printer. We were limited on banners mostly. If we needed something large we would panel it.
we ended up getting a VP540 last month - great printer also. I don't have practical expericence with all the other makes and models, but I know the VP540 is the only printer I will ever need. It is fast, prints great, and is pretty easy to learn. They have upgraded a lot of parts and pieces from the SP models that make it awesome. After we go through all the free inks that came with the machine we will be switching over to Triagle Inks like we were using in the SP300. They cost half as much, dry quicker, and bond much better.
good luck with your search.
Posted by Robert Cole (Member # 477) on :
Bump
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
I'm considering the VP540 also. Thanks for the advice guys!
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
Robert. If this your first Digital Printer I would say go with the Roland. The Rolands are very nice, Easy to use machines and Like I said I wore mine out and there is a lot to say for Print and Cut.
When we were looking at upgrading I actually had one of the new VP540s on order but the wait was 4 mos and I needed to replace the 30 quicker then that. Didn't want to go through another season nursing it along. Plus it was time for a new plotter also so we added a 54" Graphtec also.
As for the Size difference. 64 vs 54 The only thing I really print at 64 is banners and those aren't a daily occurence. But there are also times I wish I even had a bigger one. But I think that is more of an ego thing then actual useablity. If I have any regret about my printer I would have to say I wish I would have bought one with White ink capbilities.
Posted by Stephen Faulkner (Member # 2511) on :
current contract shop, nuttin but headaches there with brand new (March) VersaScamm, able to make drop dead awsome digital prints, sometimes.... then nasty prints follow (same job, same file, same media, etc.).
My biggest gripe is with the print cut being sparatic (alignment) and all over the place. stRoland has been reluctant to do a lot but finally shipped a new one after months of trying different fixes and tech's (time and money client will never get back).
New machine has been an improvment but still not able to count on it all the time with print cut.... still waitng on tech (3 weeks later).
for the money..... I'd get a Summa thermal printer, sub out the high-end fancy image prints and put in a BEER VAULT (less money, more fun) where the laminator would go! J.M.H.O.
I am in west central Ohio and have a printer for sale if you are interested. give me a call @ 937-465-0595
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Robert, I'm heading off to the office shortly, so I won't be able to write a personal reply right now... but I just wrote a post last week that says a good deal of what I'd want to suggest here, so I'll paste that in for now...
quote: ...as I've said on large format printer discussions many times... I honestly believe you should shop for a trustworthy supplier... not a printer. Honestly, all the main well known name brand printers do an awesome job & will add incredible quality products that any successful sign shop will turn dramatic profits with... BUT they need TLC & knowledgable experts in your corner.
Find the guy you want a long term business relationship with who will sell the printer AND inks and media... AND provide technical support. If they want lifelong profits selling you inks and media, then they should be there for you with lifelong support.
If you can find a vendor you trust that offers all that... whatever printer they sell is probably going to be a long term money machine for you, not matter what brand it is (within reason)
In my case it was Advantage Sign Supply. They got it covered so many times more then anyone else I've ever dealt with on supplies, or equipment... that not only did I turn down an opportunity to buy the same printer from a supplier right here in the Sate of Hawaii, I also ship all my media in all the way from Michigan, like I did with my printer, plotter, laminator, & air filter.. because these guys know how to take care of their customers!
For the record, my choice was a 63" Mimaki JV3-160 Solvent printer, a 63" Mimaki CG-130 plotter, and a 63" GBC Arctic Titan laminator.
The only thing that surprised me is that the 5-10 minutes a day of cleaning that they warned me about is really only 5-10 minutes a day... but it's also really important to try to do at least every other day.
I've skipped a week or more several times with no real problems, except it's more work after skipping... and I think it will reduce the life expectancy of the print heads to be irresponsible like that... so I stick to the suggested cleaning regimine.
I guess what I'm saying here is that I've heard the Rolands don't require this level of TLC. I really don't have any regrets, & I find the cutter as a seperate piece of equipment has really been an advantage for the workflow in my shop, but I'll concede that 5 minutes of required maintenance was difficult to fit in when I was between employees & stressed out with doing the work of two men, while trying to locate, interview, hire & then train a new guy...
...but I got over that hurdle & was lucky enough to find another guy to treat my printer like it was his own & as a result we continue to have trouble free printing very consistently.
[ September 17, 2007, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
Posted by Cis Pack (Member # 2011) on :
I just bought a Mutoh Valuejet and can't wait to get it. Spent several months studying all the brands and decided it was the one for me. The inks are reasonable and you don't have to have an aircleaner to use it. I didn't want the flumes because I work out of the house. We have seen the prints on different substates and they look great. Just do your homework before you but. I agree with Doug Allen about Advantage Sign Supply. The cost of the equipment is a little higher than you can get other places but if you have a problem you will be glad you spent the additional money. The service after the sell is better than most companies. Good luck in your decision.
Posted by Mike South (Member # 4523) on :
Ditto on Blakes commets. We've had our Roland sp-540v versacamm almost the same amount of time as Blake. I've only bought a few wipers. Very inexpensive. Almost NO monthly maintenance cost. Cleaning machine is easy and is a must on all solvent printers. Frequency depends on volume. Learning curve is low. Tranlates to making money immediatly.
A big factor for our purchase was local dealer/support/supplier. Actual users have very positive comments. Except Stephen, we've had none of those problems. Print & Cut has been great. We print alot of banners/vinyl just can not complain.
One of my first print jobs was a street banner (on mesh banner)48"x50' long. My sales rep was worried. It ran great with no problems.
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