Customer wants chrome graphics for his motorcycles trailer and I show him the 5 year outdoor chrome that can be printed on. He goes for it. Comes back a few days later (after I printed them) and I install them...almost $1000 job. He is thrilled with the way that they have turned out.
He is leaving the next day or so to spend the summer camping 4 hours away. I get a call when he gets there and the graphics are coming off. They are peeling big time around the edges....even to the point of flapping in the wind.
I tell him that I will find out from the manufacturer whats going on and will re-do them. He wants me to wait until he gets back in Sept.
Quite a bit later, I get a call from him telling me that he has put a dispute into his credit card. I was really surprised as I thought that we had had good re pore. I tell him that he didn't need to do that as I was planning on coming up there to install them. (We have been camping some this year and I thought that it was a good excuse to go again.)
I get a call from his credit card and tell them that I will be repairing them as soon as I can hear from him. They are happy with this.
I have been emailing him, trying to make arrangements to come up and haven't heard from him until today. He said that the credit card refunded his money and that he is having someone local re-do the graphics.
The problem with the vinyl was that it needed 1/4 bleed outside of the cut line, needed to sit 24 hrs or more and should not have been installed using water. None of this info came with the roll of vinyl.
I am sorry that he doesn't want me to re-do the graphics but I don't want to be out the $1000 either. Can I put a claim into the vinyl manufacturer?
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
He has the right under 'His Insurance or CC' to go to anyplace he likes, as long as it is under the diductibule (SP?).
You can request first replacement on product and if he refuses!!!!! And diside to work with others
Your warranty is no longer valied.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Oldest trick in the book. Say it failed and actually ruined it with a pressure washer or car wash..
What did you use for the app juice?
I would go up there and take a look anyway.. If it is flappping,, or not,, then you do what you gotta do. If it is flappy but the rest of it is stuck firmly in place then you gotta guess if its failure or abuse. My guess is abuce. If it is easy to peel some more then you got an adhesion problem.
In any event. You have a warranty for products delivered. And if I remember right, Visa will not reverse the charges if you continue to work with the customer and try to make him satisfied. The entire job is not bad.. just one small part of it is.
[ July 19, 2007, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Curtis hammond ]
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
At this point, your client made the decision as to how you would administer YOUR warranty. You have to post your return policy in your showroom. If the product fails, your policies would dictate wheather you refund the money or repair it at no charge, period.
The important thing is to get it cleared up asap, don't let it linger if you can help it.
Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :
In the meantime, I'd try to recreate thoe same job on a much smaller scale. Maybe you could figure out yourself why this problem even occured.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
I would drop what I was doing and go get pix of the failure BEFORE the other sign guy removes it.
You've offered to repair it, yet he got a refund? Something smells fishy.
If anything, the pix may help you with any claim you might make to the vinyl manufacturer. At least you will have some sort of visual documentation. Better still if you took pix of the thing as soon as the job was finished for date comparison.
Love....Jill
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I wouldn't refund the money either....
But it does go to show you that you MUST know what the manufacturer recommends in regards to application techniques/ printing procedures before you do an app.
Yet, he had no right to circumvent your ability to make things right - as you told him you would gladly do.
I understand his being gunshy after the first failure though....which is a natural response.
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
i'd be bummed out too that he is going somewhere else and not giving you the opportunity to fix it. however you were wrong in your production if you didn't use a bleed(especially on a dark color) or didn't wait 12hours b4 lamination and /or installation. those are things that you should know as a versacamm user. i have definitely figured out the do-s and don't-s on printing...and it is our responsibility to know these things if we are going to charge for it. aint always fair but it is what it is.
Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on :
The customer sent me pics immediately. After talking with a rep, I know what I did to cause this.
Can his credit card company deduct money out of my account? or will they have to go thru my CCard processing company?
Posted by Patrick Wedel (Member # 5256) on :
quote:
The problem with the vinyl was that it needed 1/4 bleed outside of the cut line, needed to sit 24 hrs or more and should not have been installed using water. None of this info came with the roll of vinyl.
quote:
I can understand that some vinyls are not compatible with wet application, but I guess I'm a little ignorant here. You need a bleed for obvious reasons, and need to let the print gas out before you lam - but what do those 2 things have to do with the vinyl adhering to the substrate?
(just had my versacamm seven months)
Posted by Chris Lovelady (Member # 2540) on :
i have had simular problems with crome vinyl as well...not printed but cut on the plotte. I have not heard of a crome that is ment for outdoors for 5 years...most all the crome material i have seen are polyester. this is not ment to last more that 6 months outside. though i have seen it done i have not had sucsess with it and do not offer it.
i may have not under stood fully, was this a rap? crome does not conform...this might be some of the problem. most vinyl company recomend a dry application and the adheasives are water based. some 3M say waranty is void is you use a application fluid.
In my opinon...
Lovelady
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
I REFUSE TO CUT THAT CRAP.....and if do IT HAS NO GAR-ON-TEE or WARRENTY. and i also WILL CHARGE CLIENT FOR A NEW PLOTTER BLADE. stuff dont stick...IF IT HAS A POINTED AREA, ONLY ON A FLAT SURFACE AND NO SERIFED LETTERS!!!!! AND THE LETTERS NEED TO BE FAT...TO HOLD.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Mylar or polyester, either one will bond stronger and stay bonded longer if cleaned and applied with Rapid TacII, I speak from lots of experience.
But better yet, watch chrome mylar being applied to glass at 35 degrees f. (while snowing). Check out the FREE videos;
Your credit card processor will issue a chargeback on your account and yes, the money will come out of the bank account associated with your merchant account.
Not only will they hit you with the $1000 chargeback, but there will be additional fees, plus the chargeback stays on your account history. You might check your merchant account policy because once you get a certain number of chargebacks they start increasing your CC processing fees too.
Posted by Dana Stanley (Member # 6786) on :
It stinks to have to give the money back; but lets face it if you bought tires and they fell off in a week would you trust the guy to put other ones on or get your money back?
Bleed? I'm not familiar with that term, perhaps because I only have a plotter. I hate to argue with Roger as he has helped me out , but if the manufacturer specifies dry install only then they wont warranty it if you do a wet installation.
karyn has the most honest view on your situation. Now when I screw up bad(as I will) I wont have to feel so bad.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
quote: I hate to argue with Roger as he has helped me out , but if the manufacturer specifies dry install only then they wont warranty it if you do a wet installation.
\\
Warranty? HAH! What warranty.. Oh you mean the one where they will only replace all 4 ft. of the vinyl but not any of the other layers with it? But only if its on the third Sunday of the 15th month of the year? Oh! that warranty.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Curtis - I received a decent reimbursement from both Avery on a few failed projects and from Ameriban on some failed in-house branded Permacast vinyl. The Ameriban job had about 5 layers of different vinyl and of course the color that failed was on layer #1. They replaced ALL the vinyl for me....and that's one reason why I like them so much.
I had no real problem ... other than it took a few weeks to find out what the Avery settlement would be - but they did come through.
I tend to follow the original manufacturer's recommendations...seems like they are there for a reason. Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
i did a $400 job on a truck with BLACK AVERY A-8 as a outline with a lime green A-8 letter on top of the black....i sent pics to avery distrubutor DENVER SIGN SUPPLY...they in turn sent ME A IN HOUSE CREDIT FOR $45 FRICKIN DOLLARS!!!!!!! nice huh????? DENVER SIGN SUPPLY....AND AVERY both can go pound sand...............
[ July 20, 2007, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
good on you.. But not so good for me. I had a roll of it that shrank up until it was over 1/2 inch total STILL on da ROLL and never got a kiss.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Chris,
Gerber has a "Deluxe Silver" (chrome) vinyl manufactured by 3M that is rated for 3 to 5 years (vertical). I've used it on a lot of trucks and seen it last as long as 6 years. Its much thinner and more flexible than the standard polyester chrome vinyls.
Posted by Jerry VanHorn (Member # 4704) on :
make sure the graphics get removed since he has his money back. I had a customer about 10 years ago that said he would remove the vinyl on his own. He had no intention of removing it, he only tried to get his money back to end up with a freebie. - a racer!!
Posted by VICTORGEORGIOU (Member # 474) on :
Laura - I think you have the right to reperform the work, but who is to say what the law is in your particular situation?
I doubt that your customer has his money back at this point. The credit slip is most likely in a claims status.
At this point your credit card processor is your judge and jury. You need to ask them how they make the final decision on chargebacks, and then give them in writing everything to back your position.
Nova is our credit card processor and they are very "by the book". You can tell them the problem and they can tell you the rules. Then you live or die on their policy. Your situation is probably the same.
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