A neighboring Township requires that I dig the two holes for a sign installation (for 4"posts). Then I have to call to have the holes inspected.
Have you ever heard such a crock?
The sign is only 6' to the top! What type of engineering do they think I need?
I've been doing signs for 31 years now, and I've never heard anything so ridiculous.
And of COURSE the location is 30 miles each way. Is this normal for anyone?
Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
There's a town here that requires a signed/stamped engneered drawing for EVERY sign in town. That includes a 2'x8' piece of dibond screwed to a wall.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
I was watching an editorial piece on TV a few days ago. They were talking about swimming holes that have been used for decades, and how the fear of liability has shut them down. Then they talked about how the high dives have been removed from many swimming pools. The reporter looked into the number of injuries related to high dives. They found no cause for concern whatsoever. But, the POSSIBILITY of injury was what motivated the removal of the diving boards.
The fear of injury and liability have motivated some of the stupidest restrictions. We sing patriotic songs of independence and freedom, but then allow the straightjacket of idiotic regulation to be placed upon us.
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
It would be my guess that it's being done to ensure "hand dug holes"...versus "computor generated" ones, as witnessed in here last year and more recently when a Letterhead offered pre-dug holes in here....problem w/pre-dugs are they are computor generated and will cause problems down the road...
(truth be known, Russ is probably the closest in his thoughts)
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
This is a totally off the wall thought. But considering the historic region in which you live, Gene... could they be worried that you might dig up old battlefield artifacts? I mean, Gettysburg, Chambersburg, Cashtown, Hagerstown all had Civil War activity. Love....Jill
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Duhhhh...what part of 'revenue enhancement' don't you understand?
[ July 09, 2007, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
Posted by Mike South (Member # 4523) on :
Our city requires inspection for all concrete foundations. Buildings, signs, homes etc. You can't have a good structure if you don't have a good foundation. Our city is relaxed about the inspections(for signs). They don't care about a couple of 4"x4" set in concrete. Larger sign structures they will inpect and should.
Our city requires sign structures to be engineered to 90mph wind loads without structural failure. This is the reason for inspections.
Set 20 4x4 post in a week and overload them. They will stop looking at 2' holes. Make a suggestion to your city engineers on small structure under so many square feet should not require inspection.
Russ mentioned the increasing liab. Have a city inspect a sign foundation. Then have it blow off and damage or cause an injury. They assume more liability.
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
Don't you charge a significant fee for making the second trip out because of their assinine regs? I'd hit them with an additional $150; gas ain't cheap you know.
Posted by Roy Frisby (Member # 736) on :
Hey Magoo, I beg your pardon! My pre-made post holes are recycled oilwell holes, not computer generated. Well, maybe the "hole" saw is computer driven to cut them to length. As of late, I have been having trouble with a guy in a pig costume trying to steal the holes. I suppose he's is trying to go "Whole hog" about it. Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
Boss Hog?????? Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
had a tripod sign post were 3x3 aluminum. specs were 36" deep and 24" circumference. I dont think cell phone towers are put in this good. complete overkill. I avoid permits (if posssible) at all costs. Waste of energy, time, money and materials
Posted by goddinfla (Member # 1502) on :
I dug some holes a few years back and called for inspection. Because the part of town where the sign was going had a lot of homeless I covered the holes with plywood to keep them from falling in. We went later that day to check the permit. It was red tagged. The inspector wrote "Must dig holes for inspection" I called the supervisor and she sent the inspector to meet us at the site. He arrived wearing a white shirt with epaulets, looking like Gopher from Love Boat and was astounded when I moved the pieces of plywood next to the piles of dirt and revealed holes, imagine that. I could visualize him standing there looking up at the sky saying,"Now where could those holes be?"
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
They require it here too ...however no one enforces it...so they had just as well take it off the books.
I set all my signs 3' no matter what...then I never have to go back and straighten anything.
All that having been said I welcome the city to check my hole anytime they feel the need! :0
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Proof positive that it takes one kind of hole to know another.
I'm gonna go away now... Rapid
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
What you poeple fail to realize....you stop by the inspector and let him inspect the predug holes that Roy provides...before you install them! That way you both avoid the necessity of an extra trip!
Posted by Sonny Franks (Member # 588) on :
That happened last year when I tried to get a permit for a 3' x 4' hanging sign on a 4" x 4" post in Gainesville GA. The lady said the "footing" had to be inspected before I could install the sign. I told her there wasn't a footing, just a post in a hole. She then told me (with a straight face) "Well, then your hole will have to be inspected"......
45 mile drive - one trip for permit, second trip to dig hole, third trip to install sign. I was not a happy camper.
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Thanks, guys and Jill. I thought this was the only goofy area.
Jill, Do you really think there would be any items I find left in the bottom of the hole ?
I'm heading out to dig. Hi Ho! (not you Jill)
Posted by Mikes Mischeif (Member # 1744) on :
I have experienced this also, except we had already dug and poured the concrete. They said we need to have an engineer inspect the hole to make sure we were 36" deep.
I called an engineer and the charge was $450. I said how do you plan to check how far down we really are. He said he was going to dig right down beside our hole to measure.
I said, aren't you going to compromise the strenth of my hole when you pack the loose dirt back into your hole?
He said not my problem, at least you will have a permit for a weak hole.
I left the situation in the hands of the builder, who after two board meetings got an exemption.
UNBELIEVABLE!
Posted by Donald Miner (Member # 6472) on :
Well, Well here we go again. Friend of mine paid $50.00 for a hole inspection. Inspector showed up 3 hours late, took a look, said"Yep that's a hole". Got in his pickup amd drove off. On a more serious note here is one reason we need hole inspectors. Recently a single pole sign about 6'x8' d/f on a single pole about 16' over-all hieght fell over due to a very strong wind storm. Believe it or not when I checked to see what happened, I saw 4 -4' lag bolts through the bottom plate of the sign had been screwed into the asphalt parking lot.
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
About 20 years ago, I got a Monday morning call to clean up the mess after an illegally installed sign blew over. It was a 12' x 32' billboard with 8' ground clearance set on five telephone poles. It had been put up over the weekend without a permit--as if the city inspectors wouldn't notice that sign!
The first hole was dug 2' deep. They got progressively shallower and the last one was only 10". I guess the guy got tired.
It's a wonder the installers didn't get killed while they were up there nailing on the stringers.
Posted by Tony Segale (Member # 1380) on :
Five years ago, I obtained a sign installers contractors license. I include in the quoted price of the sign, drawings and plans for obtaining a permit, but it does not included the city permit fees. Now, learn your cities codes. Example: a moument sign over 6' requires engineer drawings. Well, I never design a monument sign taller than 6' including it's base or pedestal. I recently completed a sign which was 6 1/2' tall, leaving off the base or pedestal it is known as a 'free standing ' sign, therefor, no engineer drawings. The contractor's license helped me do three things... 1) obtain and charge for plans necessary to obtain sign permits 2) subcontract all installations out to other construction contractors who are almost always looking for more work to cover their work comp overloads, and 3) make more profit
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
I haven't "installed" a single sign in over 10 years. Why bother? There are all sorts of people who are experienced and have the equipment to do it. I just add their cost to the job with a mark-up.
I do do all my own "installs" on boats and trucks and pick-ups and vans and trailers though.
"Work smart, not hard" Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
This IS assinine. Sounds like some city-committee-guy created a job for some home-boy who needed SOMETHING to do.
What ever happened to the simple and straight-forward 'call-b-4-U-dig' campaigne?
I'm like Si. Anytime I deal with MORE bull it's going to gereate MORE $$$ into my pocket.
SOMEONE'S GONNA PAY. lol
Ya know, Gene . . . depending on what type of sign it is 2ft MIGHT not even be deep enough!. . . I think I would have an extra charge for having to dig holes NOT deep enough to sufficiently support the sign!
Stack up a bunch'a paper to look like a catalogue the first page being a wind-load chart and require the alleged 'inpsector' to read and sign your disclaimer saying they will pay for any and all expenses incured from repairs you might have to make due to the inadequate installation procedure they require. Demand their attention to YOUR inspection requirements!!
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