Hi all I did a qoute spent time with the customer coming up with options for there new shop changed the layouts for them a few times took photo of new building and imposed layouts over the top to show what it would look like. No problem way the owner is talking I have got the job. Get a phone call from them saying got another sign company doing the job they can do it cheaper and are doing extra signs for them. Had ****s on as you do for awhile then let it go.
Anyway to rub salt into my wounds they have my photo of their shop i took and layout over it in the local newspaper promoting there up coming move. Do I ask for a please explain send them a bill for using my time or what? what would you do?
Posted by Dana Stanley (Member # 6786) on :
You could send them the bill for photo, and photo rework. Explain that it is your property and it was only for presentation reference. They really do not have a right to publish YOUR work unless you granted them that right.
Posted by Brad Farha (Member # 931) on :
I would learn from my mistake. Don't go to that much trouble without a deposit.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
"they have my photo of their shop i took and layout over it in the local newspaper promoting there up coming move."
1 - If they have not paid you for the artwork/photo, you retain the rights to it. They are in copyright violation to produce it without your consent. Keep any correspondence they have sent you that states they are doing this intentionally. It determines it to be a willful act with disregard to your rights of ownership.
2 - If the other sign shop replicates your design, unless they modify or change it markedly, they are doing so without your permission as the owner of the design as well.
In either case, proving your rights to the design can usually get you a cease and desist order. This will immediately stop them from producing any further work, reproducing it in other mediums (newspaper) or force them to change the design.
It's your baby...protect it. Rapid
[ June 05, 2007, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
LET IT GO. . . . . Now the next time, have it printed on your drawing. Never, Ever give a drawing to ANTONE without you policy "The fine print" on it. It works well, without having to explain to them that you will bill them for your expert time if they copy, reproduce, or use your design for anything other. I've sent bills for this quite a few times, and it does work.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
I'd let it go, chalk it up to experience, and not make the same mistake in the future, Mark.
Folks, if you want to run around screaming about copyright violations it's time YOU step up to the plate to educate YOUR clients (or potential clients) about them UP FRONT. Expecting everyone to just know about copyrights then getting mad when they shop your design around is pointless. They simply do not know about copyright, you can't expect them to know when it's not their business. If YOU want to protect YOUR work, that job is up to YOU. It may be an unpleasant part of the business but it's a part of it nonetheless so step up and deal with it head-on, or don't do anything at all and don't worry or complain about it.
Read up on copyright laws in Australia as I'm sure they are different than the States. In the US all original works are protected under copyright by default BUT in order to actually push the issue and get resolution in court, the item absolutely MUST be registered. The court will hear your case without registration but will only award a pittance for damages, IF they even award you anything at all. Register that work and magically, damages are potentially in the 6 figure$.
Posted by Dana Stanley (Member # 6786) on :
I would try to get money for my time. Anyone with a conscience at all, would have that little knot in there stomach as they used the things they know you worked on. The others would feel like they scored by robbing you and that's even worse.
Lesson learned is; get a signature and deposit on a work order form that allows you to retain the copy rights. That's whats so great about this forum we can learn from other folks mistakes, and they from ours.
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hiya Mark, Assuming our copyright laws are similar, I would register your design(s) right away! Here in the state's I think the cost is less than $50 and I think it can be done online. Then, if he uses the design, hire a copyright attorney and wash your hands of it. Again, assuming the laws are the same or very similar, by registering the design with the copyright office, you are entitled to recoup damages, along with reasonable attorney's fees. Plus, you can have the offending design destroyed As long as you have the documentation, I don't know of any self respecting attorney that would not take the case As the others stated, the best way to avoid this situation is don't work without a signed contract.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
We all have done this I don't care what they say; it's just too easy to trust people. You spent a lot of time and gave them professional consulting as well as layouts, photos, comping, etc. I would definately send him a reasonable bill for all your services (considering also that you didn't have a written contract or deposit). You don't have to register the trademark; it already belongs to you by default. If they give you any crap just tell them you'll see them in court then take it to small claims. I've never seen a thieving client get by with it yet.
Posted by Brad Farha (Member # 931) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ricky Jackson: If they give you any crap just tell them you'll see them in court then take it to small claims. I've never seen a thieving client get by with it yet.
That happens here all of the time. If you have to take them to court, you're probably just wasting more of your time.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Mark, it hurts, I know. "Get over it" is well said, but not so easy to do, till you get used to being able to do that- put it behind you and move on. Don't carry worry & bad vibes around with you.
You could try a sincere bluff- telling them that they obviously approve of your work since they are using it in their advertising program, and this is the bill for your work done to date...
Keep a dated copy of that letter. If they ignore that, you'll have to decide what to do next, yourself. I've been to small claims, and won, but the 'trauma' and time wasted wasn't worth the time lost, in my opinion.
Chalk it up to experience.
Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
Forget about it. Your not going to get anywhere. You didnt get the sign job. choke it up as a lesson. next time document eveything as YOUR property unless they buy. LET IT GO
Posted by Mark Stokes (Member # 5351) on :
thanks for the advice people. I have decided to let it go and remember the situation for next time.
Posted by Deri Russell (Member # 119) on :
Mark I wouldn't even talk to the client about this. Perhaps they are niaeve (sp?) about the ways of the copyright. But I'd be willing to bet the sign company that slashed it isn't. I think I would be talking to them. If you walk into their shop with your work in hand I would think they would be pretty red in the face. If they don't know anything about it perhaps they will talk to the client. And if they did, and get their hand caught in the cookie jar perhaps they won't do it again. It may not get you any compensation money wise but it will make you feel better. And they really need their fingers slapped.
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Tell the shop guy you plan on including him in the lawsuit...
Then watch his face turn red. LOL!
Posted by Brian Diver (Member # 1552) on :
Mark,
Because of this type of crap, I've recently decided to make & enforce "new policies." Unfortunately, many of us take on these unscrupulous clients for their word and then get screwed. I'm not playing that game anymore, hence the new policies.
Sorry for your loss.
Posted by Clinton Cooper (Member # 6802) on :
What goes around comes around!
I had a similar situation about 12 mths ago. I gave them a quote they rang and said you have the job. i usually do nothing without a deposit but they lived an hour away so I did artwork photos and sent it off to them. Said I would pick the deposit up later that week. I rang a few days later, after ordering materials. The client said Sorry gone with someone else. They used my artwork, my photos the whole bit. I wrote a nice letter to the sign company that produced the signs and to the client. I got paid for the artwork at least.
Last week drove by the store, up for lease! They went bust...
I'm sorry they did, but thats Karma for you!
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Something similar happened to two clients of mine in a different way- they still owe me money I'll never get, but they won't live to enjoy what they saved either, as over time their own health issues have turned them into cripples, one physically and one mentally. Karma, also, I guess...
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