I've got four retaining walls approximately 5' tall each that I need to mount signs to. Each of the four walls is curved. The wall is made of your typical retaining wall blocks one would buy at Lowe's / Depot etc. The entire project is for a memorial park being built on the site of a former high school.
Here's the catch, each of the four walls will have at least one sign mounted to it containing the names of each member that attended the school during that particular time frame. Some signs could have as many as 200 -300 names.
My question is: what process would you use to create the signs with all the names, and how in the heck would you mount it to the curved walls?
I'm struggling with this one....
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
Just a quick idea.
8x4 sheets of 1/4" aluminum or something similar.
Create the layout file of the names and take it to somebody with a flat bed router.
Rout the names on each sheet ... don't make any spelling mistakes cause you can't change them
Spray the routed sheets with black enamel then belt sand (very fine grit) the surface exposing the alloy and leaving the black names.
The alloy will curve to the wall OK and will be permanent and vertually vandal proof
Just a thought!
PS ... you can do it the other way arounf by spray the sheets first and then getting the letters routed. This would give silver letters on black or whatever background but I would confirm first with the router about scratching during the process.
[ May 31, 2007, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: Jon Butterworth ]
Posted by Michael R. Bendel (Member # 5847) on :
It'll take framing & a rigid framed, arced face.
To be honest... at this point I ask for the approximate budget.
This needs a sub-frame at the very least.
You were very specific of the brick type & very non-descript of the signage.
With all the names, I assume a one dimmensional sign.
As Jon said... Alum. is a great option. You could apply vinyl letters to the fromt or go Jon's route....
Approximate budget my friend!
Budget takes the guesswork out of the bid.
Don't get me wrong. You can submit a $4000.00 & a $1000.00 idea to fit a $1000.00 budget. It's all in the "feel" you get from the customers "budget".
This is a school & they generally like things that last & are fairly simple (depending on the budget constraints).
I would propose arced .1000 alum. panels mounted/rivited to square tubing, with mounts to the landscape brick.
Very simple & durable.
Now if the budget allowed...
Double layers, 3D alum. borders, Routed letters, etched letters, clear polycarbonate faces with rigid metal framing......
Reach for the sky!
Posted by TJ Duvall (Member # 3133) on :
Sandblasted black granite panels(like tombstones) would also look nice. Use sections of narrow panels with a little space in between to go around your curve.
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Any "good" sheet metal shop can roll a piece of 1/8" aluminum to the shape you require.
If the curve isn't to radical and you use good anchors you could probably "shape" .080 aluminum to it by simply anchoring one side the curving it around to the opposite anchor.
A good install would reqire clips mounted to each end and also clips mounted at the center. (set them in about 2" so they can't be easily seen from the sides.
If invisible mounts are require have someone weld clips to the back of the panels then clip mount it to the wall.
If it were me I would pre-fit these panels before painting and lettering...it will reassure you all is well before you do the finish work on them.
Posted by Denny Smith (Member # 6806) on :
so far, great ideas.
Approx budget at this point is $1,000 to $1,500. Personally, I'm more concerned with the signs being vandal proof as best as possible. I don't really think vinyl lettering for the names is the way to go at this point. Was thinking about laser engraving anodized aluminum panels and then covering them with something to protect from vandals. What do you think about this?
Posted by TJ Duvall (Member # 3133) on :
The anodized aluminum will last long in the weather. The only thing you want to be carefull of is that if you engrave after anodizing, that area will weather faster because you will "break-through" the anodize when you engrave.andrew7
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Denny, How much "curve is there on the wall (what is the radius)? Is it only curved in the one direction? In other words, is it like a cylindrical curve or does it also "step" back?
A nice technique is to sandblast into a piece of aluminum panel. You can use a standard sheet of .063 in Black and blast the letters in. Just enough to blast the color off. It actually raises the letters a little bit. Practice first, it can distort the metal if overdone, but it's a neat effect.
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
We had a similar problem with signs we used to do for Fantasy Island, an amusement park on Grand Island, NY.
People waiting in line used to stand and pick at the lettering on every sign along the walkways leading up to the rides. Consquently, they destroyed heaps of signs in the process.
We used vinyl lettering with several clear coats sprayed on. Several mist coats followed by two or three heavy coats works well for us. don't forget to scuff the vinyl and tack cloth and clean BEFORE you cut it to assure adhesion. Scuffing after you cut runs the chance of picking up letters and such.
If they held up under amusement park conditions, I would feel safe that this would work for you.
Posted by Denny Smith (Member # 6806) on :
I'm not sure what the radius is just yet. I've only seen the sketchings so far, but it appears like a 60 degree arc on each wall. The main thing to remember is that not all walls get the same number of signs. Where one wall my have 4 signs, the one next to it may only get one sign. I'm trying to keep them as uniform as possible.
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
I don't know where you'd find a laser big enough to do that size. Monte gave you the same advice that I would. I also agree with TJ about going thru the anodizing; it will lead to corrosion. You might want to consider just doing a vinyl mask and rolling epoxy paint.
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hiya Denny, I'm sure it's for a good cause, but I don't see enough room in the budget to make anything durable to happen. On the low budget side, I cound see, reverse laser etched polycarbonate panels, perhaps back filled and sprayed. They could be mounted to the wall using a vandal resistant, custom frame (where the vandals can't get behind it and pry the signs off) or stand-offs. On the high end, I would recommend cast or etched plaques (or stone) mounted in a similar manner as above. Just one goofy thought, what about blasting the names into the "bricks" on the wall?
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Denny Smith (Member # 6806) on :
can't blast them into the bricks because the surface is way too rough. We did blast all of their fund raiser bricks & that was my initial thought until they told me what blocks they were using.
Checkers, do you have a good source for a vandal resistant custom frame?
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hiya Denny, You can always have someone else grind the bricks smooth before they're installed. Or, another "shot in the dark", maybe the manufacturer can supply smooth bricks for ya? From what I understand of the manufacturing process, the texture is applied after the brick is made. One last guess would be to somehow buld the wall with flat faces that you can mount the signs to. For the frames, I would just use my local metal fabricator. But, I think that will break your budget though. Depending on the intended design, I would make a rough sketch and cardboard templates to contour the shape of the wall and bring them to the fabricator and go from there. Some more "cost saving" ideas would be to use a standard design template; require the client to provide the names electronically and hold the client responsible for all proof reading. The more I think about this, the more options I'm coming up with. There are still a lot of variables that need to be addressed ahead of time though.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
I hope this budget is each???
Posted by Denny Smith (Member # 6806) on :
Randy, you're gonna'charge them $4,000 to $6,000 for this....Man, I need to move further North!
Yes, the client is providing the names in electronic file format and is responsible for spell checking. Originally we talked about 18x24 sheets of lasered anodized, that's why the budget is what it is. I know they will spend more if I can come back to them with various options (like so many of you have suggested)
So yes, $1500 for 4 18x24 pieces lasered with client providing spell checked electronic file seemed decent to me....
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
I still dunno Denny. I think you'll need a larger budget, a very inexpensive source for engraving/etching or plan on using vinyl - which I would dread that thought. If you went with 1/4" lettering, you'll need an average space of .375" x 2" per name. Figuring on tight margins and a header, I you should be able to get your 200-300 names per sign. Now comes the fun part though. 1/4" thick etched stainless steel, Gemini's least expensive etched substrate, retails for $3.10 a square inch, or about $1,340 per plaque. They do have thinner substrates as low as $2.10 sq. in. However, I would be concerned about durability. Assuming this can be done as a cast aluminum plaque, the retail price would be about $630, plus shipping, per plaque. When I worked for a quicky sticky, we would charge $1 per word for more than 10 words per sign. So, even being generous, I would be charging you about $500 per sign. The additional $400 per sign would be just for the additional names. Then you would still have to make them vandal resistant. I would assume that laser engraved acrylic or polycarbonate would be priced somewhere around the same price as the bronze. But I haven't priced a project of this scope yet. And don't forget that you still have to figure out a way to securely mount them.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Len Mort (Member # 7030) on :
Denny Quarter inch aluminum is good, not all sheet metal shops have the ability to roll the metal but look around you will find someone out there. Weld blind fastners on back side, drill holes for studs in wall and install with construction adhesive.
For the lettering cut light duty sandblast resist apply to your substrate and sandblast copy into the aluminum,if you do not have the ability to sandblast yourself take it to a monument maker for that service. Before removing mask blow or vacuum all residue from surface and spray with contrasting color, remove mask and spray with automotive clear two part urathane. You can polish the aluminum if you like before starting the process, depends on what final appearance you desire.
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Denny...I like the sounds of a sand blast effect on the anodized aluminum.The economics are certainly there over laser cut for sure.
Two things tho...if you need to weld clips to the back (for hidden mounting) you must weld them before the anodizing process (it will damage the anodizing otherwise) might be a huge problem if you don't have a local anodizer to do anodizing after the welding. Also there can be a slight darkening where the weld is. Another alternative might be a thru panel decorative rosette that will screww into a clip mount.
The second ...if you do sand blast you'll have to be careful not to remain in one spot too long the heat from the abrasive is capable of warping the sheet.
Let us k now how you end up doing this job and post some pics when you're thru...we'd like to see it.
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