That's what I call them: "Sticky People". If they can't stick it, they can't do it. I'm talking about the folks that start "Mom & Pop" strip center vinyl sign stores, usually a franchise deal, and don't know what the hell they are doing. They come and go, but some of them that are well run "stick" around and do well. Still, however, they need your help and you may could use their money. Here's why and how:
They couldn't build a Lincoln Log house if their lives depended on it. They don't know which end of a screw gun to hold or what kind of screws to use. Digging a hole in the ground to plant a sign is something too much like getting dirty and busting a sweat, and as far as routing or sandblasting anything dimensional, forget it, because it's not "sticky". They have not the equipment, knowledge or ability. And a hand-lettered sign? A painted mural? What?
I don't hand letter, but I make a good living off of sticky people by doing the other things that they can't do, and that is the point of this thread: If you are an experienced sign person and perhaps struggling with you own business for whatever reason, go see the sticky people. They often turn down business that ain't sticky enough because they haven't met YOU yet! You can help them out, and visa versa! It'll get to where they can't hardly live without you. It's easy money.
Sticky People are here to stay. I say take advantage of them. Use them. Make $$$ off of them! Money is money, and I for one don't care WHERE it comes from!
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
How dare you! Taking advantage of poor struggling wannabe "signwriters". Shame on you!!! That's like asking $5 to push a cripple across the road in his wheelchair!
Never do it for less than $10! ... aint yer got any business sense?
Posted by Richard Flint (Member # 6602) on :
That's right...you tell 'em, Jon!
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Tucker: ...strip center vinyl sign stores, usually a franchise deal, and don't know what the hell they are doing.
To quote another famous phrase: "If you're so damn smart, why ain't you rich?" Mark, I can hand letter with quills, liners, fitches, cutters and probably a pine top and a bucket of cow manure if I had to. I can hand carve with the best of em, lay surface or glass gold, do all the trick macaroni centers, multi-karat blends, split-blended shades, abalone, mother of pearl or watch crystal inlays. I can airbrush and screenprint. I can do marblized and just about any other faux finish. I can do smalts or wire up a lighted sign can. I also build all my own computers from scratch, format the drives, install the software and get it all working. For all of that, it didn't make me enough money, even working 60 hours a week to get out of living in a double-wide trailer. I'm one of the "strip center vinyl franchise stores" I'm happy to say. We're closing on our 5th house next week; how many do you have? It's not about "signs"; it's about "business". Call me crazy but I'm really happy to wear the sticker people lable; at least I have a future and won't have to depend on my children to live off of.
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
Ricky, even though you have all those skills and abilities, I don't believe you have the ego it takes to be a true master of the craft. Sorry.
Nyah, nyah, you're just a sticky person....
[ April 06, 2007, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Jon Jantz ]
Posted by Bob Peach (Member # 2620) on :
I`m impressed Ricky, but I hear you failed Smuggling 101.
Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
I had the same attitude toward the sticky people but after seeing Ricky and how he has done things, I have a WHOLE nother respect for them. Ricky has proven that it can be done. Oh sure there are still the low ballin schmucks, but Ricky has made it the level it should be. Many of us should take the "BUSINESS" side of signs more to heart like Ricky did. It's the guns thing that I don't get...haha
Posted by Paul Luszcz (Member # 4042) on :
Ricky:
A few years ago you were planning to explain how your franchise worked for you. I was looking forward to hearing first hand how the franchises worked.
Did you ever do it or did I miss it?
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Easy Ricky! Like the rest of us there is somethings we cannot do like in crossing borders...LOL
As for "Mark Tucker" I truly have to laugh at You and not with You!
One day! You may know how to use a peferation wheel or just how to twist the Quill to make the better letter.
But please do believe most people on this site can 'DANCE' all around your claims to Flames!
Not myself as I am only the RavenGraphics. I know nothing about this business after 32 years...
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
You can't argue with success.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Good idea. Instead of moaning about them , you go to them and let them work for you. Thats true marketing and co-op work.
I think I'll do that too.
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
Jon you busted me on the ego thing buddy. I hate to say it but it's true. And Peach, you're just a "southern Canadian", LOL. The guns thing was a total fiasco, a completely honest mistake, ignorance of the laws of a foreign country, sleepy, weary from driving 17 straight hours, everything in the rearview mirror and only getting to Alaska on my mind. It cost me several thousand dollars total and I don't really care to go over it again. Everybody has their right to an opinion and I certainly have mine, but I was there and know exactly what happened. Had I been trying to smuggle a pistol into Canada I can *assure you* they would never have found it.
Mike I thank you for the compliments; that means an awful lot coming from you. Paul I guess you missed the post on how it worked out for me. Basically, when we started our Signs Now center we didn't have a pot to pee in. We borrowed $15K; we had a plotter, Signlab and an open ear to their way of doing things. There is no "secret" to our way of doing things; it's more a matter of doing *everything* the right way. There are a lot of guys on this board that I highly respect that has built an incredible business without being in a franchise. So being in a franchise is not the only way to do successfully. I don't want to start name calling for fear of slighting someone but two that stand out are Billy Bob DeBecker and Mike O'Neal.
I've had a few people say that I somehoe "sold out" in the beginning. I disagree. I've steadfastly refused to do lighted signs and a few other things that my heart just wasn't into. Sure we will letter a sheet of acrylic from time to time and even tho we could add half a million to our sales figures, it's not worth it to me so that's what lets me know I'm true to myself and my desires.
Bottom line: we started in debt, on a shoestring. Eleven years later we have several (nice) houses, all our vehicles are paid for (2000 mustang convertible, 2002 mustang convertible, 2002 Ford F-150, 94 Chevy S-10, 2005 Buick LeSabre Custom); we paid cash for all of our shop equiptment, large format, Edge, panel saw, etc; we stock enough materials and substrates so that we don't have to worry what comes in the door, we can turn it out next day 90% of the time. We have about $90K equity in our real estate holdings and a few tens of thousands in a money market account. We have a house brimming with nice expensive furnishings. We took a month off last year to go on a road trip "out west". Two weeks later we took our second 7 day cruise of 06 to St. Thomas, USVI. We take two weeks vacation in Alaska almost every year. We usually go to the Signs Now Rally every year and those are always very extravagant. I said all of that not to brag, only to let you know where I was 11 years ago and where I'm at today. That's the difference the franchise made for me. BTW, since we started 11 years ago, we've *never* opened on Saturday and I've only come in to work maybe a dozen times on Saturday. I work about 8 - 9 hours a day, most of which lately is screwing off in Letterville, LOL.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
I had a conversation with Ricky several years ago about his franchise sign business and at that time I was very impressed and still am. Ricky probably doesn't remember typing with me as it was on chat either in the late 90's or the early millennium. He's one guy who took it to a higher level and made it work. I guess others can do it if they were a creationist as Ricky is.
nice word huh Posted by Michael Boone (Member # 308) on :
Some people have class and some never will... and it aint the suit ya wear that determines it...
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
let me look at this over the whole spectrum...of STICKY ONLY SHOPS....which RICKY DONT FALL INTO....when you go to your SIGN SNOW extravaganzas.....HOW MANY THERE...DO ALL THAT YOU DO????????thats the question ricky. you are a 1% er of the people with a SIGN SNOW hangin out front. for the rest of them that i have met most are REAL DODO'S. so ricky IN THIS THREAD YOU DONT COUNT AS A STICKY ONLY SHOP....now go buy more guns.....)))))))))))))))
[ April 06, 2007, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
BTW, OldPaint Joe's actual name is OldVinyl as he hasn't touched a real paint brush in ages outside of the time he painted his living room when he had to add the Chimney to the wood stove throught the ceiling.
Ain't that right OldVinyl?
[ April 06, 2007, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Joey Madden ]
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
Well OP, the original rant was that we sticky people "don't know what the hell we're doing". That's a broad brush. I'm sure Mark didn't include me in the bunch on purpose and I suppose he's right to a certain extent; most of them wouldn't know which end of the brush to dip in the paint. But still... it's about *business*, not signs. If you consider building Lincoln log houses, how-to-hold a screw gun or digging a hole to be of major importance then by all means I hope that makes you happy. As far as dimensional signs go, I'd bet that there are more franchisees that own Multi-Cam's than everyone else here in Letterville combined. Two things I remember about Henry Ford: (1) When asked how he was qualified to start Ford Motor Company if he didn't know beans about engineering, he replied that he didn't need to know; he had employees that knew. (2) he told his son, Edsel to put a few million dollars in the bank and forget that it's there in case of a rainy day. We've twice had Michael Gerber, author of the E-Myth and the E-Myth Revisited, as the keynote speaker at our Rallys. If you read his book(s) you'll see the paridigm that we use as our business model.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Digging holes is something I've done for a long time. And I know how to use a screw gun, although I've never built a log house. The brush thing is something I'm familiar with, also.
Ricky knows how to do all those things (and a lot more) also, but that doesn't make him or me successful or better than the rest of the world.
Ricky is one of those sticky folks and so am I. It's been years since I did a complete sign with a brush. That doesn't make us less professional or the outcast step child.
There are franchise folks who do a great job making signs and there are jerks that turn out junk. The same can be said of those who push a brush for a living.
I'm not sure how we keep score in this game, but Ricky has listed his homes and cars and bank accounts. Many look down their noses at such things and choose to remain "pure" (even while being envious of those who have such things).
Some point to a portfolio of masterpieces as the measure of their success and are content with that and have little of what many consider achiving the "brass ring".
Success is one the hardest words to define, but most of us know if we have achieved it or not.
Contentment with what you have and where you are (and who you are) seems to be my best definition of success. It's ironic that not many have found it, no matter how much money or "things" they have.
I've never understood why we have to put everyone in a pigeon hole according to how they earn a living or what particular process they use in trying to achieve "success". As an example, Dan Sawatzky and I both are passionate about what we do (probably Dan is way off the meter) but we don't approach our work/play in the same way. He wouldn't be comfortable doing what I do and I'm pretty sure that all those dragons and airplanes are not something that I would want to face every morning. I greatly admire his creativity and attitude, but I am not going to say that he is more or less of a success than me or Gary Anderson or Mark Yearwood or OP.
In this area of Texas we have a lot of fine signmen (and signwomen) and some that give our craft a black eye. And yet, most of them have some quality that I admire and would like to imitate. Trying to put myself above them because I can paint a widget and they can't is absurd.
OK..it's another sermon, but I just see each of as learners. Some have learned more than others, but we all have a long way to go before we are perfect.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
One other thing...I've read Michael Gerber's books and disagree with one statement he made.
"The only reason for owning a business is to sell it".
Some of us find our achievement in just owning a business and producing what we love, with little thought of ever turning loose of it.
I know, that's not what the E-Myth is all about, but that's what struck me.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Joe is still mad at the franchise president who called him and threatened him. In any event. Now that this thread is turning educational
Ricky is proof that a good bizz model works. He is proof that a sticky shops are not all bozo's In fact, every signs Now I ever saw made a lot of money with some really competant operators.
I've been to more than a few training seminars, and spoke at more than a few,, and MC'd a few myself.
Michael Gerber is a guru and has been a guest speaker and a contributer to some of our (bizz consultants) symposiums and to our business model. He has some great words to say. Why? because he put a problem into words we all relate too and then gave a solution to a problem that so many of us have.
And yes, one of his premise is,, you prepare a business to sell it. Maybe not today or tomorrow. But you put it into a position to sell it just in case the need arises.
I personally fell into this mode just a short time ago. I had no intention of ever selling my biz. In fact it was no secret among those who I chat with I was having a record year with income doubling every month. But when the situation changed I was able to sell what little I had left at a nice amount and certainly more than I expected because of that premise.
And, I feel I should co-op and network with every one no matter how incompetant we think they are. And the oirginal idea of this post is a good one.
[ April 06, 2007, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Curtis hammond ]
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
SIGN SNOW is not the only franchise i ment that for. SIGNS IN ONE DAY, SIGNS BY TOMARROW, SIGN A RAMA, SIGNS UP YOUR PUTUTI....95% ALL THE SAME... BUSINESS PEOPLE(most fat pocketed)....who think they can be something more........WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE....of either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[ April 07, 2007, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
Time to post more Photoshopped OP pix! Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
95% ALL THE SAME...and i said ricky...you dont fit into that bunch...but it dont help you smuggling guns into canada either!!!!!!))))))))))))))))))
Posted by Chris Elliott (Member # 1262) on :
hmmm.......time for more photoshopped OP pix ...or time for more photoshoped Ricky pix....or BOTH? And while we're at it. is the past tense of "Photoshop" spelled with one "p" or 2 "p"s? In other words,"2 p or not 2 p"? Didn't Shakespeare's Hamlet wrestle with that question? (So many questions to ponder and so little time)
p.s. Ricky, I haven't had the chance to meet you yet so perhaps I shouldn't be pokin' fun at ya but on the other hand, you seem to have a pretty well-developed sense of humor and a thick enough hide to stand a lil' good natured jokin' around. As far as OP goes, I've met him & he's a friend of mine, besides that, he DESERVES it! Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Personally, I love the business..both the creative side and the business side.
But if it came to a choice I would choose the business side.
Creativity is self-fulfilling but business fills the belly.
Posted by Mark Tucker (Member # 6461) on :
quote:Originally posted by old paint: let me look at this over the whole spectrum...of STICKY ONLY SHOPS....which RICKY DONT FALL INTO....when you go to your SIGN SNOW extravaganzas.....HOW MANY THERE...DO ALL THAT YOU DO????????thats the question ricky. you are a 1% er of the people with a SIGN SNOW hangin out front. for the rest of them that i have met most are REAL DODO'S. so ricky IN THIS THREAD YOU DONT COUNT AS A STICKY ONLY SHOP....now go buy more guns.....)))))))))))))))
That's what I meant, I don't intentionally mean to offend ANYONE that works for a living. Curtis Hammond catches my drift best: "Instead of moaning about the sticky people, make $$$ off of them!"
I do my own thing, but I also make a substantial amount of money off of sticky people that can only "stick".
I have several local franchise stores that keeps me busy with my CNC and installs. I am NOT complaining! Just the other day, I did an install for one of 'em that took me all of 10 minutes after a short drive. I charged them $100.00 and they were glad to pay. Because they couldn't stick it, they couldn't figure it out. Hence, $100.00 to me! What's wrong with that? Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
What's wrong with that you ask?
Absolutely nothing from my perspective.
Posted by Mark Tucker (Member # 6461) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bruce Bowers: What's wrong with that you ask?
Absolutely nothing from my perspective.
It was a 2' x 6' D/F NuAlum vinyl copy sign installed between 2 existing 6 x 6 post, 3' from grade. I used 4 small aluminum clips, 8 one inch screws, and was done before I started.
Posted by Nancie W. Phillips (Member # 3484) on :
I agree with you Mark. I believe that those of us who specialize in painting could offer another dimension to "sticky only" shops. Working as a contractor could have it's benefits on both sides. I also agree that Ricky isn't your ordinary sticky person... He's in a league of his own.
Posted by Kathy Lowry (Member # 7353) on :
I guess I'm what you would call a "sticky person". There are some things that are beyond my capability but I must be doing something right because I've been in business for 16 years. If I can't do the job I will refer them to someone who I know can do it. I do alot of the small jobs that those other sign shops think that they're too good for. I treat those little jobs as if they were my biggest job in the shop and as a result those customers have brought me bigger jobs.
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