I just bought a new laptop and it has Vista. I hate it with a passion. It will probably be great when I learn it but its like having to go from CorelDraw to CAD.
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on April 04, 2007 07:22 AM:
...Sorry Laura. Unless you are a PC holdout, (and you 'had' to buy one) why would anybody buy a PC (or anything sold by Bill Gates) after all of the warnings and negative rants that woefull PC users have already and repetedly been posting here? Did you miss the clue that these products will cause problems? It's like taking up cigarette smoking... perhaps, not such a good idea anymore.
Posted by Deri Russell (Member # 119) on April 04, 2007 07:39 AM:
Well Laura, I'm sure you'll get used to it. Just like XP when it first came out, and all the other ones. It's just a matter of spending some more time with it. I was considering getting a new 'puter but decided to leave it until all the bugs are worked out. It CAN'T be that complicated or they wouldn't be making it the operating system for the masses. ( I can say that because I haven't tried it yet.) Keep plugging away girl.
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on April 04, 2007 08:21 AM:
Laura, can you format the hard drive and load XP on it?
Posted by Joe Sciury (Member # 4653) on April 04, 2007 09:04 AM:
Laura, you'll get it figured out, just give it some time. You can reformat like Rick's saying but like it or not, I'm sure Vista is here to stay so you might as well learn it now. Just keep your production computers XP for now while your learning Vista on the new one.
W.R. You better watch it! The mere mention of the word Mac to some around here is despicable and you'll be sure to be labeled an elitist.....LOL
Posted by Dana Stanley (Member # 6786) on April 04, 2007 10:51 AM:
Say what is that guy Pickett some kinda MAC elitist or something. Bill Gates is the man!
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on April 04, 2007 11:01 AM:
...Guilty as charged.
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on April 04, 2007 12:30 PM:
Buy a new computer and then have to load an old OS.... makes sense to me....NOT!
I load every update onto my Mac OS X without a second thought...don't think i'll be going back to OS 9 though.
Bill needs to get a few original ideas and then make them work!
Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on April 04, 2007 12:36 PM:
I was real close to buying a MAAAC (I can't hardly say it) for the first time. I can still take this one back...up to 6 months.
Which MAC could/should I get for around $1000-1200? Is this possible?
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on April 04, 2007 12:45 PM:
Laura, you can get an iMac in that price range and they're pretty SWEET, both in aesthetics and performance! The whole computer is packed right in behind the LCD and the whole package is only 2" thick. It sits on a nice pedestal and hardly takes up any room, but if you want the ultimate desktop space saving you can even hang it right on the wall.
The 2.0Ghz 17" iMac would be in that price range. It's a nice machine.
Keep in mind there will be a learning curve, regardless of what the Mac evangelists tell you. Not everything on the Mac is intuitive.
Software and fonts are going to the be biggest problems you face. You have to make sure you can get Mac versions of the software you like best, unless you run the Parallels software, which allows you to run the Mac OS and XP at the same time.
Posted by Theresa Hoying (Member # 7330) on April 04, 2007 02:04 PM:
As my husband is in the computer industry, he too is not happy with Vista. He told me it is going to be a mess when I switch, but I plan to hold out for a long time. We had enough problems with XP.
And since I just got a new PC at the Beginning of this year, I am set for a while!
Good luck to those of you taking the plunge! T
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on April 04, 2007 02:29 PM:
I've never had any issues with fonts on my Mac. Fonts that I've been using for 10 years on PC work just fine on the Mac.
Software? Well all the main design, accounting, bookkeeping programs are all set for Mac. Sign specific programs are out there, I know there's a few Macheads here using them. There might be some specialized stuff that's not Mac friendly though.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on April 04, 2007 02:34 PM:
Is there a version of CorelDraw for the Mac?
Posted by Deri Russell (Member # 119) on April 04, 2007 02:36 PM:
Laura, lets think about this. You are going to switch what you already have to avoid a learning curve, so that you can buy a different system, with a learning curve?
Really?
Posted by Bill Modzel (Member # 22) on April 04, 2007 03:25 PM:
Laura, If your at all curious there is an amazing Mac User Group that meets close enough for you to visit. Wouldn't be a bad introduction and maybe you could find some other Mac/Sign folks. It's OK you can say Mac. http://macgroup.org/ Russ, No Corel, although there used to be. Just plain couldn't compete with Illustrator's already huge Mac base. They do have a mac version of Painter though. Deri, It's not only a learning curve, it's the farce that Vista became after 5 years of promises and postponements. It's another poor copy of what OS X was 5 years ago. In another couple of months Apple will releas OS X 10.5, Leopard, and the gap will widen even more.
If your really need some horsepower here's the new dual quad. http://www.apple.com/macpro/ As MacDailyNews puts it, "For when you absolutely, positively have to sequence the entire human genome before lunch."
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on April 04, 2007 03:26 PM:
Not to mention, you have to buy mac versions for all your computer software.
cha-ching.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on April 04, 2007 04:24 PM:
I'm using CorelDRAW 11, it's the last version made for Mac but it does everything I need it to, and for anything else there's Illustrator. Posted by Ben Diaz (Member # 7319) on April 04, 2007 06:23 PM:
We have been using Vista on some of our machines for a couple of weeks now, and although I will admit there was a learning curve. Now that I'm getting the hang of it I really like it. We do have a problem with our plotter not having drivers right now but that should be fixed before too long. If you have multiple computers I would keep at least one running XP. As far as switching to Macs there will be a learning curve with that too, and although alot of Mac users are super loyal, I see no real advantages to switching. And yes I have used a mac, and I am about equally familiar with both systems. What is your exact problem with Vista? Maybe it is something that can be solved easily, or something we already went through when setting up our system.
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on April 04, 2007 07:30 PM:
Laura, I was just on Dell's website looking at computers because my good one had a total meltdown. According to their site, they are still shipping computers with XP until the issues with Vista are resolved. You might want to look into it.
Posted by Joe Crumley (Member # 2307) on April 04, 2007 08:39 PM:
I've toyed with the idea of moving over to Mach but like Janette mentioned, get ready to find some extra money. Can you imagine having to buy a replacement verison of Enroute $5000 or ArtCam $7000 or Flexi %4000 not to mention all the other pc itmes. It's a real deal breaker.
For all those who taut, making the move over to another system, PC or Mac, should be more considerate. Even if one of these systems it superior, for many of us it's not ever going to an option.
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on April 04, 2007 10:08 PM:
With $79 "Parallels" software, you can run PC programs right in the Mac OS environment. I have CorelDRAW X3 that runs right along with the Mac stuff.
2 computers for the price of one-- it was a no brainer for me! I got the 24" imac for about $2k and a Macbook laptop for about $1100.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on April 04, 2007 11:23 PM:
Clanton, that's just too easy! Oh, wait... that's because you got Macs!! Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on April 04, 2007 11:47 PM:
I never thought to try a PC font on a Mac. Interesting. I tried it with two fonts today. One worked, and the other one didn't. Both installed fine, but one wouldn't show up when I tried to type something with it in Illustrator. I gave an error about not being able to preview. The other worked like a charm. I opened the failed font in Fontographer, saved it as a Mac font, and it worked fine after that. Anyway, I'm glad for that bit of info. Thanks Mike.
Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on April 04, 2007 11:47 PM:
Deri, If I am going to have to learn new software/computer it had better be worth it. A new OS like Vista is just not worth it to me. I guess that I am getting to that age that I am just tired of learning new software.
One of my concerns with getting a MAC how much of my existing software could I continue to use and how much was I going to have to purchase. I sounds like I could use pretty much everything.
Ben, I can't figure out how to create new identities in Microsoft Mail. I use my husband's dial up account at home and then create identities for about 3 different emails. It doesn't appear that I can do that now without having to log off and log on as a differnent user.
[ April 04, 2007, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: Laura Butler ]
Posted by Mark Tucker (Member # 6461) on April 05, 2007 12:00 AM:
If'n it ain't broke, don't "fix" it...
XP has pretty much been a rock-steady OS for me. Everything is working great, no problems. And it's paid for.
I'll "upgrade" to Vista when Bill Gates puts a gun to my head.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on April 05, 2007 03:12 AM:
OLD ADAGE FOR PC OWNERS....ALWAY STAY ONE VERSION BEHINF NEWEST AVILABLE VERSION!!!!! ive alway stuck to this, and have had little problems moving from 95 to 98, wasnt dumb enough to load MILLENIUM...went to xp after the 1st SERVICE PACK was out a couple months..... VISTA is the MONOPOLY PACKAGE for M/S!!!!! it makes you pay and pay and pay....
Posted by Paul Bierce (Member # 5412) on April 05, 2007 06:44 AM:
quote:Originally posted by Russ McMullin: I never thought to try a PC font on a Mac. Interesting. I tried it with two fonts today. One worked, and the other one didn't. Both installed fine, but one wouldn't show up when I tried to type something with it in Illustrator. I gave an error about not being able to preview. The other worked like a charm. I opened the failed font in Fontographer, saved it as a Mac font, and it worked fine after that. Anyway, I'm glad for that bit of info. Thanks Mike.
The fact that PC fonts will work on a Mac, but Mac fonts WON'T WORK on a PC speaks volumes to me.
I use a Mac for my work from home and a PC at my part-time job and I can honestly say that once Illustrator or Photoshop (or Dreamweaver etc. etc.) are open, there's virtually no difference between the two platforms.
I wonder if Adobe allows you to upgrade from the PC version to the Mac version. Anyone know?
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on April 05, 2007 09:54 AM:
Mercy! What's all this fuss about. Vista works fine for us. I like it. It's not THAT much different!
Why would you suggest to somebody to switch to a Mac just because they're getting their feet wet on a new operating system? Why would you want to scold somebody for their choice of computer systems instead of trying to help them out? If you don't have something helpful to say on this forum move to another post.
I've heard it before on other updates, and I heard it when people moved to XP. People like to rag and 2 weeks later when they finally get it they're singin' praises.
Give this some time and you will like it as we have.
Posted by Joseph Diaz (Member # 5913) on April 05, 2007 10:45 AM:
So, Laura, let me get this straight, you hate Vista because you can’t get the mail to work? And so you are planning on switching to a Mac platform where you have to learn even more? I’ve used Macs quite frequently and I’ll admit OSX isn’t that hard to learn but I don’t think Vista is that hard either. But I do know this: the amount of things you would have to relearn if you bought a Mac greatly outnumbers the things you need to know to switch to Vista. Like my Dad said it isn’t that different from XP. And He’s an old guy!!!!
As others suggested before, you could load up other software or XP on to a Mac so that you can run you Windows compatible software. But doesn’t that defeat the purpose. It sounds to me like you are having problems with the OS not the computer it’s self. It doesn’t make sense to me to trade in a perfectly good machine to buy a completely different one only to have to reload Microsoft software.
I don’t think these Mac fans are being helpful at all… the advice they are giving you is bad. To me it seems like they want you to switch systems just to support their claims that Mac is better then PC, not to help you, It seems like they see this post as a another chance to bash PC users and make them feel inferior. Just another chance to complain about an OS they haven’t even used.
I suggest you give Vista a chance. We love it here. And if that’s not an option, if you really hate Vista, reformat and put your older XP on it. But you don’t need to buy a whole new Computer and OS, mainly because that won’t solve your problems. You will have to learn a new system (which it sounds to me like that’s your problem in the first place) and you will most likely spend even more money.
I can possibly help you with your problems with Windows Mail. To add new users go to “Tools” then “Accounts” then the “Add” button, simply fill out the information for the additional accounts. It’s also very possible to install your older Mail program on Vista. That is always an option
Also, feel free to call us if you need any help.
[ April 05, 2007, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Joseph Diaz ]
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on April 05, 2007 10:51 AM:
Give it some time and you will probably adapt to it fine Laura. I guess when you post in frustration with a title "I HATE Vista" you are basically inviting all the "switch to Mac and your problems will be over" posts. I find that I get really frustrated when I have to work with a new OS as well. I quite enjoy working with new software, but an OS is in your face all the time. There are diehard Mac fans and diehard PC fans here, those who I have spoken to that operate with both seem to think that there isn't a huge difference although they lean slightly towards the Mac for performance and slightly to the PC for software compatability. I think that switching platforms is going to have a learning curve as well. If you have the time to handle the learning as well as the finances to replace software then maybe this is as a good a time as any. But I do think you should seriously consider whether it will be the right solution for you. Good Luck whichever road you take. Eventually your choice will become familiar and comfortable to you.....and then they will change it again.
Posted by Joe Sciury (Member # 4653) on April 05, 2007 10:56 AM:
Well, I think a lot of people are really getting disgruntled with Windows in general so I really see no harm in recommending something different. It's so easy for me to spend your money....LOL
IF YOU ENJOY THE GYMNASTICS OF KEEPING WINDOWS SECURE THEN BY ALL MEANS CONTINUE ON.
As Michael so elegantly pointed out the so called Holy Grail of sign making (Corel) can be run on a Mac along with all your Cad programs. Have many times does it need to be pointed out, that all these old arguments of "it will cost you way too much money to move to a Mac. You'll have to replace all your software" and on and on and on, no longer hold true!
A learning curve is a learning curve no matter which OS. But again like Michael said, for $79 "Parallels" will allow you to run XP or Vista right along side OS-X....no rebooting, just like jumping from one program to the next. You will need a legal retail copy of Windows too.
I've seen 20" refurbed (same warranty as new) iMacs at the Apple store for a little over $1000.....For about another $120 you can buy Apple Care and the entire system down to the mouse will be repaired or replaced for 3 years if anything should go wrong. This also includes technical phone support for the whole 3 years so any questions you have about how to operate the new OS will be answered and anytime I've called Apple I was talking to an ENGLISH SPEAKING human being from the US not India or God knows where, in max of 5 mins.
So in a nut shell you get two computers. One that is extremely secure and stable, that you can start to fall in love with and eventually maybe switch over completely to and one that is extremely un-secure and finicky, that you can continue to run all your existing software on.
Posted by Joseph Diaz (Member # 5913) on April 05, 2007 11:20 AM:
Joe, so what you suggest is to buy a Mac and load it up with OSX and Vista? How does that solve the problem she’s having? Now she would have to learn two new operating systems, and pay for both of them too. So even if she gets the replacement Mac that cost the same as a PC she will still be spending more and learning more. And… chances are if she were to do what you suggest she would be using windows the majority of the time anyway to run windows based software that she already owns, she wouldn’t be taking advantage of all the superior features that you claim Mac has. She is having an issue with learning new “software” so your advice would be to change the “hardware”? I don’t get it. I’m not trying to say one system is better than the other, but I wonder if your advice is helpful.
Posted by Joe Sciury (Member # 4653) on April 05, 2007 11:30 AM:
Joe, NO she can load XP, it doesn't have to be Vista. Laura is familiar with XP correct? So instead of learning two OSs like your saying, just one really good one OS-X Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on April 05, 2007 11:45 AM:
I hated Vista at first, but am getting a little used to it. We don't have it on our computers but I've done a couple doc/prog/file swaps for people getting new computers and it seems to work pretty good. The problems I had were more with getting the internet to work well, but after I went in and turned off a bunch of the advanced services, it seems to have fix the problem...
I agree with Kelly, it may just take a little time to get used to it. My dad is the world's worst for resisting changes to new programs. He even had an old Win98 box running just so he could use his DOS CAD program. He'd updated to the new ones but didn't like them as well... when I started doing CAD for him, I used the newest and loved it so much I got him talked into using it and now he can't believe he used to like that old DOS program better...
As far as the Mac to PC debate, you hear a lot of these sign/graphic guys touting Macs but they have their problems too... I'm sure if you type in 'Mac problems' in g00gle you'd see tens of thousands of hits...
I worked at a PC sales/repair place for several years and we sold on average probably 5 or 6 systems per day and had a bunch of techs running around, with MCSE, CCNE, RHCP, and other cool initial certifications... none of them knew how to fix a Mac. We did get a fair amount of people bringing them in with problems, and we didn't even know where to send them. We didn't know of one repair shop in the Pensacola/Mobile area (about 1.5 mil people) that dealt with Mac repair.. I think there may be one place in Pensacola now, but it looks like a fly-by-night outfit and still don't know if I'd send anyone there.
I guess my point is, Macs are great, I've operated them but never owned one, but for the normal user who would like to be able to go out and get local service, you need to realize you have a lot less options...
LOL... A SIDENOTE: I wondered how many hits I'd get so I typed "Mac Problems" into Google... hmm.. 75.8 million results, so SOMEONE SOMEWHERE is having a problem, they ain't perfect.. hehe.
[ April 05, 2007, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Jon Jantz ]
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on April 05, 2007 12:48 PM:
Only 173 million hits for "windows problems" and only 32 million for Vista so far...how long has that system been out? Maybe I'll switch over....just kid'n!
I must say that when I first upgraded to Mac's OSX from OS9, I was a bit freaked out. There were a few things I thought I didn't like very much. I could easily switch back to OS9 whenever I wanted to (it was built in to the upgrade), but the new features in OSX soon won me over and I never looked back.
If you give Vista a little time Laura, I'm sure you'll get used to it.
good luck
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on April 05, 2007 01:06 PM:
Honestly...I'd never buy a Mac that is built along with the lcd....I've had too many lcd's go out and if your computer is part of it - you're screwed....
To me...the desktop quad would be the way to go. If the monitor takes a dive, you can quickly hook up another...
Posted by Ben Diaz (Member # 7319) on April 05, 2007 01:16 PM:
All these Mac users are trying to get you to convert. Next thing you know you're gonna be sittin in the middle of a field waitin for Hale Bop and they'll be askin you to drink the juice. Just kidding Mac users only drink blood.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on April 05, 2007 01:43 PM:
Sorry Jon, I came up with 73.1 Million for Mac problems..
and 202 Million for Windows problems.
Not that *all* those results in either search are even specific to computer issues though.
Laura wants a new computer, she's buying new hardware either way.
If she buys a Windows system now she's going to get Vista. Now, it sounds like her current mail problems are an easy enough fix, but what about all her other software? Will she still have to upgrade to new Windows versions of her current software so it all works bug-free under Vista? Adobe isn't supporting their current software under Vista so if she's using any of it and has problems that mean downtime for her business, she'll have to buy *completely new seats* of everything because upgrade versions based on the previous installs will still not work right. Actually, if she's adding a computer to the game and not just replacing one with something new, she'd have to buy all new seats of software anyway. What about her sign-specific software? Does it all work bug-free *today*? If the sign software companies plan to update their software for Vista that's all well and good but what about the work that needs to get done today?
OK, she could format the new system and install XP to get around those issues. She'd have her familiar OS back, she could keep using all her current software, and she'd probably have killer performance on that new system using the less bloated software too.
So, if she goes one way she has bugs to contend with, maybe software and dongle compatibility issues. Another way she's having to reinstall an OS she already has.
Well, there's a third way here. She could buy Apple hardware. The hardware is hardware, Mac or PC it doesn't matter, it all works the same. The new hardware will come with a new OS that she'd have to learn, which is a boat she's already in anyway with her current new setup. If she's going to take the time to format a new system to install XP, which she already owns, she could just install it on Apple hardware right along the existing OSX. With her familiar XP she can now use her other current software without buggy issues.
She really hasn't lost anything by going with Apple hardware. She has her new sleeker faster hardware, she's got her familiar OS and software so she's in business and cooking with gas and no bugs in the soup.
She also has a new OS to mess around with, one that could bring her a different computing experience. She could take her time to explore it and see if she likes it, without risking productivity in her business because all her previous software works just as it used to. Maybe at some point she decides she likes it and upgrades her software to Mac format one title at a time. If she doesn't like it, no big loss, her computer still works just the same with her familiar OS and if she decides to jump into Vista again in the future, she can still put it on her Apple hardware.
There's nothing at stake, nothing to lose by trying out an Apple.
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on April 05, 2007 01:47 PM:
Hey Dale, you just proved my theory... here are the numbers of problems based on hard evidence.. (guestimations from Google results)
Personal Computer sales have averaged (roughly) 200 million a year for the last five years...
That's 1 Billion computers... MAC's market share is approximately 6% of that... SO..
That's 60 million MACs and 940 million PCs...
So...
So 78.5 million problems on 60 million MACs equals 1.3 problem per MAC user...
And 206 million problems on 940 million PC's equals .22 problems per PC user...
So according to my astounding and extremely reliable research, MAC users have 5.45 times more problems than PC users.
(((I'm sure the MAC guys will dispute this, but the numbers don't lie folks!!)))
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on April 05, 2007 01:54 PM:
Jon. did that rabbit claw up your colon on the way out? Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on April 05, 2007 02:16 PM:
Jon ....as long as your calculator is handy, why not add in Virus problems to the equation?
And time spent doing battle with them?
If only we could add in Microsofts hardware problems...oh yeah, they don't make hardware!
Posted by Joe Sciury (Member # 4653) on April 05, 2007 02:32 PM:
Yea Jon nice try
If you google "Mac Virus" you'll come up with 41 million....Now just how many Mac viruses are there? I've never had a one and never have purchased or installed any virus software on any Mac.
Mike, yea if she switches her world will come to an end as she knows it, her wallet will wither and she will never get any work accomplished trying to figure out which anti-viral software to buy for all the Mac illnesses and she'll never find anyone to service all the "Mac Problems"
I think what it really boils down to is some Freudian thing deep in their mind that Laura may switch and like the Mac like 99.9% of everyone who has ever switched.
Todd, I agree with you, about rather having a Mac Pro but believe that is out of her budget. That's what we use for work but use iMacs for home use and really wouldn't hesitate to use one for work either. Apple has some of the best, most color accurate monitors out there and I doubt she would have any problems for a many years. The iMac does have dual monitor and mirroring so you could always just place another LCD directly in front of it and problem solved. Or just buy the Apple Care and be covered for 3 years.
Just a funny post I came across and had saved. Not my words but thought I'd share since we now discovered searching google and using fuzzy math, that the Mac has many more problems than Windows:
"As a dual platform consultant that earns my living working on both systems I can assure you that the Mac OS-X is light years ahead of Windows XP. I often joke with my clients that if I only worked on Apple computers I would spend most of my day playing checkers with the "Matag repairman" and drive an old VW. Thankfully since I branched out and got certified on the darkside I drive a Mercedes and can afford to buy all the nice Macintosh hardware I enjoy. I am just today setting up the first client machine with the new crap from MS called Vista, and I am going to be one busy consultant."
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on April 05, 2007 02:49 PM:
Hahahahahaaaa....I love it when these kind of posts come out!
All the Mac Cultists come down from their ivory towers and start thumping their drums singing:
"Mac Saves! Mac Saves!"
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on April 05, 2007 03:15 PM:
Yeah, that was just meant to be funny... I didn't actually think it was an actually representation of the percentages of problems... I really don't care what people use, I just like yanking the MAC guys chains.. I do the same thing to my Linux buddies who are so diehard they run Linux on their PDA's... I'm always telling them stuff like the following:::
I did try to buy a Mac once, but I wasn't allowed... see I went into this Mac store because I just thought they seemed cool and was ready for something a little different. I started looking at the different machines and saw one I liked so starting asking about it, the price etc.
Well, the salesman told me, "Sir, we don't just let anyone buy these.... we have to administer the seriousness test."
Now naturally, being a very unserious type of guy, I was a little apprehensive about this.... sure enough, this 6'3" 250 lb. dude comes out carrying some kind of meter made by Fluke that said 'Panty-Wad Tester' on it...
First he asked if I was ready and I said 'Yeah' to which he said, when I ask you a question, you say "SIR" so I said, "SIR, YES SIR." Then he proceeded to ask questions and watch his meter.. such as.... "PC's RULE, MAC SUCKS" and watch my score on the meter... then he'd reverse the question like "MAC RULES, WINDOWS SUCKS" and watch the reaction. Well, he kept getting a "0" and he finally decided the meter was broken.. he said they'd had a couple guys from the Letterhead movement in a week before had scored a 123 and maybe messed the meter up....
Anyway, he finally asked "SIR, DO YOU GIVE EVEN GIVE A SH!T.." and I said, "no sir" and he said "SIR DO YOU EVEN WEAR PANTIES" and I said "no sir" and he said "SECURITY!!"
The thing I knew I was on my ear on the pavement outside... I really wanted one, but I didn't pass the Wound-tight Test...
((I made this up, it never really happened))
[ April 05, 2007, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Jon Jantz ]
Posted by Joe Sciury (Member # 4653) on April 05, 2007 03:15 PM:
Si, it is pretty fun and funny how defensive the Windows faithful get when someone recommends the Mac.
Personally if you read my first post I didn't recommend a Mac at all. I told Laura to give Vista some time and continue using XP for production but then it all started again and I couldn't resist
I haven't left my ivory tower but will if you pop your head out from your anti-viral bubble Posted by Joe Sciury (Member # 4653) on April 05, 2007 03:19 PM:
Jon, I agree. I'm really just having a little fun today. Only Laura can make up her mind. But we will plant some seeds Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on April 05, 2007 03:33 PM:
Time for some TV. All you maggots watch this, you understand?
If the Vista interface is making you nuts, turn off all those bells and whistles in the control panel.
Stuff like transparent windows, the sidebar and gadgets, hi resolution icons....they chew up processor resources, slowing the whole system down by running in the backround.
Antivirus? Get a third party one. Microsoft antivirus programs have been crap since Windows 3.1. AVG Free, Kapersky, Mcafee and Norton's are far more reliable and update their virus lists more frequently.
Browsers...Mozilla Firefox. The newest IE has more holes that a 100 square yards of cheesecloth and there's already dozens of companies that will install stuff like search bars and bookmarks before you know what hit you.
Overall, the best thing about Vista is that you can kill off all the crap they stuffed into it...if you take the time...and wind up with something that...um...might work?
Personally, I may get Vista on the home system sometime soon, but I'm sure not gonna risk stalling or crashing my work system until I know for sure EVERYTHING is gonna work.
I hate downtime... Rapid
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on April 05, 2007 05:03 PM:
I never worry about catching a virus or other malware!
I am fully protected!
Posted by Ben Diaz (Member # 7319) on April 05, 2007 05:08 PM:
Laura, Did you finally get the mailbox thing figured out? I know we have been going back and forth alot PC or Mac, but if the multiple users in the mailbox is your only problem, I would either try adding them like Joe said earlier or just install and use Microsoft Outlook just like you used to. I never had a personal e-mail, nonetheless three e-mails, back when I used to work with Macs so I don't know if switching is even going to help the situation.
Posted by Karin Nichols (Member # 6954) on April 05, 2007 09:32 PM:
Being familiar with Laura's set up in her shop, and being a Mac user myself... I recommend not switching from PC to a Mac... Between the learning curve and the cost factor of switching all her programs over, really make investing in a Mac redundant... I myself... Have a Toshiba laptop... just to keep my fingers in Bill Gates world.. But my main work horse is my iMac... which I totally love...
Just my two cents worth, Karin Nichols
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on April 06, 2007 12:37 AM:
Si, YOU DID IT!! You came up with the redneck Faraday cage! (Say what?) Well, we have REALLY BAD lightning storms around here. I toasted a good serial port because of one. (Good as in the PCI slot replacement was junk) I figure the reason that port got hit was because the cable going to it is extra long. So, I realized that I could take that woven material that's used for coaxials, or race cars, and shroud the cables with that. Then, for the boxes, I could build Faraday cages, which are a box made of woven copper mesh, around each computer. But woven copper, that's not cheap. So I realized, hey, aluminum conducts electricity fairly well. There are decorative mesh panels sold at the hardware stores, made of aluminun, which might do the trick.
But aluminum foil? Awesome! There's a logical principal known as Ockham's razor, which says something like one need not rely on a more complex explanation, when a simpler one will do.
So-o-o-o-o, I hereby bestow you with the highly esteemed and coveted RODESOLA: Redneck-Ockham DESign SOLution Award.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on April 06, 2007 03:57 AM:
welcome to Letterville Karin. It's refreshing to see a balanced individual make a balanced & objective comment, even having one foot in the mac world.
I used Mac exclusively from 89 to 94... but then I got involved with DOS engraving programs, & PC based sign programs. I've used macs intermittently since then, but in 12 years of using pc's and owning a gradually increasing amount, up to 6 as of today... I've never had any virus trouble, & don't consider them all that unstable either.
yeah, I've used macs recently... I have no gripes with them... bought a G5 imac.... it was cool, but not relevant or needed in my business, so I returned it. My gripe is with the mac cult here, I guess they really don't see how ridiculous they look here, which is the biggest part of what makes them look so much like Bills joke of waiting in a field for Hale Bop comet.
Get over it guys... feel good about your little minority club if you must, but quit acting like nobody else knows about it, & just need to be "turned on" to it, to enter the fold... plently folks know what you know, but just don't care.
I really don't see any "windows faithful" getting defensive... I see a lot of "don't really give a damn" faithful defending the fact that it's just a tool people... not a religion!
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on April 06, 2007 05:09 AM:
OK, I'm an "old phart" still running Win98se on both PC's here. Mainly because my Signus sign system which is dos based won't run on anything newer than that. It's basicly bullet proof after all these years and I don't see any advantages in upgrading at this stage. If it works, why fix it?
Don't tell me to change to Corel Draw. Signus still runs rings in speed and accuracy over Corel for straight vinyl design and cutting. I'm working on the transition now.
Compatable hardware and programs will finally force an upgrade, but until then I'll sit in this comfortable "backwater" and watch the world self-destruct in "disposable" systems and software.
Besides in five years when I retire all I want is a Laptop to stay connected and who knows where the technology will be by then!
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on April 06, 2007 09:03 AM:
Well, since the PC vs Mac thing has run its course let's rehash the vinyl vs paint debate or we can even start the Canon vs Nikon war since now photography is gaining hold in the sign industry with the expansion of the digital market. Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on April 06, 2007 09:51 AM:
Thank you James.
I remember back in the early days og the Space program....we spent $8 million developing a ball point pen that would work in zero gravity. The Russians spent $0.... they used pencils!
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on April 06, 2007 03:16 PM:
iam sorry mac folks...but if BILL GATES hadnt jumped in to save your precious macs....YOU WOULD ALL BE ON PC'S NOW!!!!! was a smart move on bills part.....fund the competion and this way MS dont have to spend money to defend itself from MONOPOLY CHARGES from the GOVT!!!!!!!ergo...let keep macs alive and let the fathful ride that hail bop comet for the rest of their lives....................)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on April 06, 2007 04:51 PM:
quote:welcome to Letterville Karin. It's refreshing to see a balanced individual make a balanced & objective comment
That's because she's from Michigan Doug....
Still....I am going to try a MAC next....and I have a sneaking suspicion it'll rock....if not, it'll be a great place to hide my money.....the side panel opens up very easily.
Posted by Joe Sciury (Member # 4653) on April 06, 2007 05:34 PM:
It's Doug the Defender to the rescue.
SI.....Love the foil pic and your sense of humor.
Old Paint, if MS saved Apple it was only so they didn't have to put anything into R&D.....Billy and the boys sat around and said "If Apple goes down where will we get all our ideas? Crap we better save them".
This could go on an on but quite frankly you guys are wearing me out....LOL....I don't know how many times it needs to be repeated before you comprehend, HER SOFTWARE WILL NOT NEED TO BE REPLACED. now lets say it again. HER SOFTWARE WILL NOT NEED TO BE REPLACED Eventually all software needs to be upgraded/replaced anyway, you can't keep it forever.
Posted by Joseph Diaz (Member # 5913) on April 06, 2007 06:08 PM:
SHE WILL STILL NEED WINDOWS LOADED UP ON A MAC TO RUN HER WINDOWS BASED PROGRAMS. now lets say it agian. SHE WILL STILL NEED WINDOWS LOADED UP ON A MAC TO RUN HER WINDOWS BASED PROGRAMS.
HAVING WINDOWS ON A MAC DEFEATS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF OWNING A MAC. one more time. HAVING WINDOWS ON A MAC DEFEATS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF OWNING A MAC.
Just having some fun... Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on April 06, 2007 06:41 PM:
When all else fails...
do this...
or...do this...
. . . . ...and you'll have more time to
Rapid
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on April 07, 2007 10:01 AM:
Many moons ago I let a MacHead convince me that I needed a Mac. (The printer I was going to at the time ... who has long been out of business)
I went for it, spent alotta money, and got a headache. Must have been THE ONLY Mac lemon out there right? They crammed all the crashes into one machine, and it became mine! Worse yet, all those Mac zealots were nowhere to be found in the way of helping me get rolling with it.
Even my Mac friends that came to look at my system, scratched their heads and were of little help to me. They recommended I hire a Mac Geek at a gizzion bux per hour to help me with a machine that was straight out of the box. hmmmmmm.
In hindsight, I should have packed it back up and sent it back. But I kept trying to work with it. Intuitive? HAH, that's funny!
Meanwhile, my PC kept me in business, while the Mac became a paperweight on my desk. Made for a great conversation peice. I sold it several years later for peanuts. Not one of my wisest investments.
Apparently, they've made great strides since then.
Today, my decision to stick with a PC, and remain "Mac Free" has got nothing to do with whether I think either machine is superior to the other. It's got everything to do with the support available to me when and if I ever need it. (incidentally, no big, "hire a geek" type problems to date yet with my PC's ...knock on wood)
There are all kinds of people in the PC world that are close by to help, without breaking your bank. Past experience tells me that in the Mac World ... not so much.
Maybe that too has changed, but I wouldn't be willing to roll that expensive pair of dice again.
Laura, I'm still on XP, and have been resisting Vista. I hope that by the time I'm ready to upgrade, things will be better figured out. I've never been one to upgrade computer stuff frequently. I don't mind being abit behind the times on that stuff. I'll let someone else work the kinks out the "new and improved" first. hahaaa
If I were in your shoes I would maybe try to switch my computer back out for one with XP since someone on this thread said they were still available. Most likely though, I'd try to adapt to the Vista, now that I already had it.
~nettie
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on April 07, 2007 11:33 AM:
Ohhhhhhhh... Nettie.....
So much for your ride on the spaceship to heaven!
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on April 07, 2007 01:23 PM:
XP will be supported until 2011. By then most of us will be retired.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on April 08, 2007 07:55 AM:
A friend & neighbour just got a new mail-order Dell, with Vista on it, last week. He didn't realise there was an option to request XP instead. He's wishing he did that. It's S--L--O--W to boot up, s..l..o..w to start any M$Office apps, and s__l__o__w to do anything else, including shut itself down. It plays video dvds well though. It looks nice. Maybe like Nettie, he got all the left-over pieces when they built it!
Posted by Joseph Diaz (Member # 5913) on April 08, 2007 10:34 AM:
We just got new Dells at our shop… They run great, but then again we got top of the line. One thing is for sure you need a faster machine, to run vista… not super fast but Ian, if your friend got one of the $400.00 machines it might not have what it takes to run vista smoothly. I would suggest shutting down some of the special effects. That should help. Also you can still get XP from Dell on certain machines, mainly if you are browsing the small business section of their website. It seems like on a lot of the home based machines you have no choice but to get vista. The particular models we bought (Dimension 9200) which were in the small business section only came with vista also.
I noticed that ours was slow to boot too. I went on line and did some research and found that if I changed the boot order in the bios it helped big time. For what ever reason Dell had put the USB drives in front of the hard drives in the boot up sequence. So it would go through and checks your USB ports, your DVD drive, your floppy drive, …., …., and then your hard drive. In our case we have an external USB hard drive hooked up and it was looking for the OS on that hard drive first. I don’t think this really is a result of the OS but the way the computer itself is set up, but I’m not totally sure. It’s pretty easy to correct. If your friend needs help I would be glad to help.
I also noticed by looking over the Dell manual that they encourage you to use the sleep button rather than shut down option. Sleep basically turns most of the machine off, only leaving a small amount of power on to keep your session in memory. This way when you come back to your computer, press the power button to turn it back on it takes like 2 seconds for windows to start back up and all of the files and programs you were working on before you put the computer in sleep mode will be right where you left them. It’s actually pretty cool.
One thing I really like about our new Dells is that they are the quietist computers I’ve ever heard. In fact, it’s more quite that my friends G5, which I didn’t think was possible at the time. Also Dell seems to be taking a few notes from apple. The side panel of the case is very easy to remove (no screws), the hard drives are easy to get to you just slide them into their slot, the processor or processors are nicely covered (for cooling reasons I imagine), and most importantly there is plenty of room to expand if you want to add more stuff. These Dells have really come a long way. I’m actually glad we went with Dell this time around. I was going to build them myself like my work station, but we decided at the last minute we would order then from Dell and save some time.
Back to the problem at hand…. I guess I don’t see how having two operating systems on a computer just to run the software she already has is going to make Laura’s life any easier. She has stated that she has a problem learning vista, not that her computer hardware is faulty. And, it sounds like her problem with vista is an easy fix. If she thinks it will be easier deal with these minor problems by switching to a Mac I believe she will be in for quite a shock. I truly doubt leaning OSX is going to be easier, especially if she is already used to XP. Meanwhile I think I’ll stick with just one Operating System.
[ April 08, 2007, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Joseph Diaz ]
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on April 08, 2007 01:16 PM:
"Dell seems to be taking a few notes from APPLE" Well, that's exactly the point isn't it? ...Thanks for supporting DELL, they need it.
...Vista really sounds like a pain to use now. Anyone (or PC user) who buys a new MAC with OSX will experience NONE of the dreaded "learning curve". They'll only totally enjoy how great everything works. And then there is the amazing iPhoto, ITunes, Garage band, SAFARI , and more.
...Bill Gates, Microsoft and Dell are just a bunch of copy cats.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on April 08, 2007 01:22 PM:
****z! Sorry I meant Sit down.....
And if you could listen to my Logitech surround sound speakers! I can't even hear myself. "Tangerine Dream" I Like it Alot! (Forest Gump)
Wireless Mouse and Board working at lightning speed as I have more then 10 programs open ...
I think they call this Multitasking?
Next working to and from Illy/Photo. full size screens.
Printing off too! What is that machine called again?
Sizing and Sending Tiff and Bits around to people and then giving E_files to others...
But doing this on a Dual core system and going for the Quad next. "Big Smile on my face!" I will run anything like XP or Vista.
"MAC what the Quack" is that thing?
PC's or Macs are no better then the person in front of them?
It is still 0 or 1 ..programing format with titles in front of them!
Sorry I forgot I am addresing this site as well. Got to go now,. Things to do!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on April 08, 2007 05:18 PM:
quote:Originally posted by Joseph Diaz: Also Dell seems to be taking a few notes from apple. The side panel of the case is very easy to remove (no screws),
...or taking notes from Sony. My 4 Sony Vaio computers have slide off sides (no screws) & this goes back at least 7 years.
Billy, I think "intuitive" is a concept that takes into account one's background. OSX may be more intuitive for an OS9 guy upgrading... but for me, who had just started exploring the advantages of OS7 when a detour took me to several years on "the dark side", I would disagree that "any PC user switching to a Mac will experience NONE of the dreaded learning curve." There are many things that are different (or "better" as some would say) ...each one of those "different" thing is something for a new user to learn. Sure, it's not that hard to learn, and if one is learning something that is truely "better" ...then it's well worth it, but I think what makes a tool "better" is also a product of an individual, their circumstances. & their business.. just as what is "intuitive" is.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on April 08, 2007 05:22 PM:
quote:Originally posted by Todd Gill: [QUOTE]Still....I am going to try a MAC next...
Todd... you've been saying that for how long??
I remember a 2 page post of you threatening to buy an Ipod... & the Mac camp was cheering you on for days...
...& then you bought a cheaper MP3 player because it was cheaper & you didn't want to cave in to your attraction to a better looking case.
Posted by Bill Dewison (Member # 5752) on April 08, 2007 05:32 PM:
Made the leap from Win98se to Windows Vista about 6 weeks ago... the first thing I did was switch off everything, from the fancy backgrounds to the virus systems... the lot. Only added in what I needed to keep the OS secure, then started loading programs.
My plotter is supported for Vista yet, so I have an XP machine that runs that, but other than that, all the software works and it is nice and stable.
Only thing that really bugs me about Vista, it has a tendancy to tell me things I really don't need to know with annoying popups. I missed all that with XP as I stuck with Win98 till the very last moment... and my wife runs the XP machine for the plotter to run on now. I don't understand why there can't just be a really bare bones operating system for those who just want to use a computer, rather than endure hours of popups and warning messages that some programmer has been paid to insert to make it so-called 'user friendly'
Cheers, Dewi
Posted by Joseph Diaz (Member # 5913) on April 08, 2007 08:28 PM:
quote: Dell seems to be taking a few notes from APPLE" Well, that's exactly the point isn't it? ....
Man now I wish I didn't say that. In fact I take it back. (Heck, I like my toaster because it has a pull out crumb catcher and you don’t need to unscrew anything to pull that out. Perhaps Mac copied Black & Decker) We all know how everybody and their grandma has copied "The Great and Powerful Mac" and how we should forever bow our heads to the creator Steve Jobs. All I was trying to state was how I think both these machines are well designed from a hardware prospective. Most people would never open up one of these computers and it really doesn’t have anything to do with Laura’s problem. That was the point I was trying to make earlier. She’s having a problem with the operating system and the learning curve that goes with it not the computer.
The only reason I said anything about the Dells is that we just got ours and we are very happy with them. And because we have had experience setting them up, I thought I could possibly give Ian some helpful advice that he could pass on to his friend.
quote: Thanks for supporting DELL, they need it
I’m not sure what that is supposed to mean. I was under the assumption that Dell had many happy customers, us included. Why else would they be so popular.
Look… I’m not trying to get in a debate about which computer is better Mac or PC because I would be stupid to think that I could change the mind of a Mac cultist. The fact is I’ve had good luck with Macs as well, although I certainly don't think they deserve all the hype. The thing is these are just computers, tools that we use to get our work done. We are the artists that control them.
I also believe that it is bad advice to tell Laura to scrap her PC for a Mac and all of her problems will disappear. I’ve used Vista, XP, OSX, and OS9. A switch from OS9 to OSX… not too hard. A switch from XP to Vista… not that hard at all. Switching from XP to OSX… a much bigger learning curve. Switching from OSX to XP on a daily basis just to run your programs… seems like a lot of unnecessary work to me.
Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on April 08, 2007 08:36 PM:
I didn't know this was going to cause such an uproar. I have been too busy to follow the thread and it looks like there is lots to read here and much good info. I'll have to read tomorrow. Thanks everyone.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on April 08, 2007 11:11 PM:
Thanks, Joe, I'll suggest he switch off any & all 'special'/wasteful effects, and check the boot sequence. It was $1600, not the $400 special, though those cost $700 here. They're on generator & solar power, so leaving it on sleep is not an option, unless it uses its internal battery.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on April 08, 2007 11:28 PM:
quote: The side panel of the case is very easy to remove (no screws),
Just wanted to point out. Dells have used use easy open cases for many years. I would guess they are among the first.. I have never seen a dell that didn't have easy open.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on April 09, 2007 01:32 AM:
there was a BARE BONES O/S one time it was called GEOS............took up 1 floppy disc!!!!!
Posted by Mark Tucker (Member # 6461) on April 09, 2007 01:38 AM:
quote:Originally posted by old paint: there was a BARE BONES O/S one time it was called GEOS............took up 1 floppy disc!!!!!
The Gerber SignMaker IV had no OS at all and was simple and dependable as rain! Of course, if you wanted a new font, THAT was about $250.00! Posted by Paul Bierce (Member # 5412) on April 09, 2007 06:34 AM:
When I found this, I just couldn't resist posting it.
Posted by Joe Sciury (Member # 4653) on April 09, 2007 10:31 AM:
quote: Also Dell seems to be taking a few notes from apple.
Funniest thing about that quote is about 8 years ago Michael DELL said about Apple "They ought to just close the doors up now and get it over with"......Ahhh, what's Dells stocks selling for now?....Kind of like the Apple haters standing in the field waiting on Hale Bop
As Apple, Google and few other are innovating for this millennium, Michael Dell, MS and most of the PC/Windoze world is still stuck in the 1990s.
quote: ...or taking notes from Sony. My 4 Sony Vaio computers have slide off sides (no screws) & this goes back at least 7 years.
Hello, earth to Doug, since at least 1993 with the LC/Quadra, Apple has had no screws, slip off covers and simple, flip open sides since 1999.
quote: ...& then you bought a cheaper MP3 player because it was cheaper & you didn't want to cave in to your attraction to a better looking case.
Earth to Doug again. There's a lot more than just an attractive case.
Straight from Wikipedia: "According to Apple's quarterly financial results from 2002 Q1 to 2007 Q1, total iPod sales reached 88,701,000 units as of January 2007."
"iPods have won several awards ranging from engineering excellence,[67] to most innovative audio product,[68] to fourth best computer product of 2006.[69] iPods often receive favorable reviews; scoring on looks, clean design and ease of use. PC World says that iPods have "altered the landscape for portable audio players".
When you buy tools, do you buy the cheapest junk you can? ie: Black & Decker, Harbor Freight brand etc. or Milwaukee, Makita etc?
quote: I guess I don’t see how having two operating systems on a computer just to run the software she already has is going to make Laura’s life any easier.
Again, it sounds like she is going to be running two OSs anyway. XP for production and learning a second one, Vista or whatever. Might as well release the chains of Windows and MS and use an OS that has a CLUE. While still being productive on XP during the learning curve. It sounds like half of nothing is working with Vista anyway or very slowly like Ian stated.....BTW what does one of those top line business Dells cost, to be able to run Vista reasonably? There goes the argument for my cheap hardware is capable of doing what ever I want so why buy Apple's over priced hardware.
Rumor mill is but I'm not holding my breath, that with Apple's upcoming OS release "Leopard" this spring, probably June. That you may be able to run Windows apps. right in OS-X....In other words no Windows OS will need to be installed on your system.....If that happens the sky will truly be falling. Posted by Joseph Diaz (Member # 5913) on April 09, 2007 11:37 AM:
I think it’s kind of hard to compare two different companies like Dell with Mac anyway. I mean, Dell isn’t really competing in the OS market. Dell doesn’t really compete with ipod or itunes either. They just sell Hardware. And really hardware doesn’t have anything to do with Laura’s problem. If you really wanted to compare (which I don’t) you should compare apple with all of the PC community. I would assume the PC community is making a bit more money… but I don’t really see how stock standings have anything to do with Laura’s problem.
Joe, I hope I’m not upsetting you; I’m just trying to be helpful not push your buttons. I'm sorry if i have. You seem to be very knowledgeable when it comes to the Mac products, But truth be told anyone can spend time researching and sighting material that already supports their claims. If I had a little more time, or cared that strongly about this little debate, I’m sure I could find lots of info about how Macs, suck. Honestly I don’t think they do. I think Mac has a great thing going. I still stand by my opinion that switching to Mac won’t fix all of Laura’s problems, but you can only do so much right?
Curtis I didn’t know that about Dell, and Doug I didn’t know that about Sony. I’ve never owned a Sony, and the last time we had Dell’s was when they were still in the old school Tan cases (they had thumb screws). Those Dells are about 7-8 years old and still running strong. They are too slow for us to do design work on, but we are using one to run our display computer upfront that has a slide show of our work. Also if a trucker is waiting on his truck he can sit down and watch a movie. But really, who has ever purchased a computer because the side panel was easy to remove. Like I said earlier these new computers are all well designed form a hardware perspective.
quote: Again, it sounds like she is going to be running two OSs anyway
That’s not true, I think she should give Vista a try… then she is using only one… especially if the only problem is the Mail program. I would suggest installing a different mail program if that is the case.
quote: It sounds like half of nothing is working with Vista anyway or very slowly like Ian stated
The funny thing about this type of statement is that Mac fanatics want to here only the negative things about Vista and PCs in general, because they obviously like Macs, I get that. In the same breath they ignore the positive things people have to say or choose to argue with them about their opinions. This isn’t just true with Mac users; people in general usually only pay attention to the negatives and forget to say positive things towards someone or something.
[ April 09, 2007, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Joseph Diaz ]
Posted by Joe Sciury (Member # 4653) on April 09, 2007 12:30 PM:
Joe, don't sweat it, you're not upsetting me! Most of YOUR arguments are logical even if slightly flawed...LOL
I really haven't spent much time researching this just for this debate. Apple has these neat little programs called "Widgets" you know Windows/Vista just added these, they call them "Gadgets" how creative they are! Anyway I just clicked on the scroll wheel of my mouse and up pop the Widgets. I then typed iPod in the Wikipedia widget to see what the sales of iPods were. It's really pretty neat, I didn't even have to go to the Wikipedia web site and it took about 5 seconds to figure it out.
Actually I've been using Macs for so long that I had some of those machines and knew about the slip off/no screw lids. Also the Michael Dell quote about "Apple should close the doors" has kind of been a hoot in the Mac community for years.
Truthfully I checked out Vista at the local Best Buy and thought it was a very nice looking OS, if nothing else at least they finally got that part right. I really didn't think it seamed that hard to navigate in either but the funny thing was the first Vista computer I started playing with crashed and I had to move to a different computer. My first impression when that happened, was well I guess some things never change.
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on April 09, 2007 01:18 PM:
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on April 09, 2007 02:43 PM:
In an effert to be more informed about MAC's and to have an open mind about the product. I found that MAC's do in fact have mechanical problems just like any other product.
We have just one local shop dealing with MACS and this is their webpage. Right there on the front page is a special repair notice concerning the power supply problem. Thank god MAC's are normal machines. I think I could learn to fix these items and make some money too.
Curtis, you're absolutely right that Macs can have hardware problems too, just like anything else but the best thing about this problem is: Did you notice where it said "Apple is offering a repair extension program for certain models of the iMac G5 and Power Mac G5".
Yes, there was high heat issues with the G5 but really the G5 is yesteryears computer and that's why Apple dropped the G5. For anyone considering the purchase of new Mac, this old news would not be relevant.
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on April 09, 2007 03:11 PM:
quote:Originally posted by Jon Jantz: Since we seem to be pulling up random crackpot websites....
I resemble that! Did you click on the link I posted? It has nothing to do with Vista, LOL.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on April 09, 2007 03:50 PM:
quote:Originally posted by Joe Sciury: the G5 is yesteryears computer and that's why Apple dropped the G5. For anyone considering the purchase of new Mac, this old news would not be relevant.
Not to pick on you Joe, but your post got me thinking. The funny thing is, most Mac evangelists like to quote all kinds of info from yesteryear - as long as it has to do with PCs. For example, one of the Mac commercials talks about PCs being good with numbers and Macs being better for graphics? It is funny, but it's also bunk. It used to be true, but hasn't been for years. The reputation for PCs constantly crashing is outdated too. I'm trying to remember the last time my PC actually locked up on me. Before OS X, I remember how Macs used to crash, crash, crash. And, it was especially irritating because Apple decided not to put power switches on them at the time. You had to unplug it from the wall to reboot!
There are plenty of things I hate about the PC, and Vista isn't in my plans at all. However, there are lots of things I would change about the Mac too. For having such a head start on the PC, the Mac should be much better than it currently is.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on April 09, 2007 06:03 PM:
quote:Originally posted by Joe Sciury:
quote: [QUOTE] ...or taking notes from Sony. My 4 Sony Vaio computers have slide off sides (no screws) & this goes back at least 7 years.
Hello, earth to Doug, since at least 1993 with the LC/Quadra, Apple has had no screws, slip off covers and simple, flip open sides since 1999.
quote: ...& then you bought a cheaper MP3 player because it was cheaper & you didn't want to cave in to your attraction to a better looking case.
Earth to Doug again. There's a lot more than just an attractive case.
Joe... sorry, you're getting way to preachy to be of interest to me, but your meaningless, or out-of-context quote deserve a quick mention. I said 7 years with my own Sony's... & you can document 8... wow... well, I didn't do research, so I'll assum I had the first one... you win!
On the ipod comment, it is a comment to Todd about Todd's actual MP3 purchase... sorry you are so defensive about this topic. I love my ipod... almost as much as I love razzing Todd.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on April 09, 2007 07:06 PM:
had his day.. Posted by Joe Sciury (Member # 4653) on April 10, 2007 01:00 AM:
for the compliments! You guys kept prodding so I couldn't resist, stating some facts for you. I guess we all should get back to something constructive Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on April 10, 2007 08:29 PM:
I think everyone should pick out their favorite brush, a can of one shot and see who can top that. But then again there might be too many brush brands to quibble over. Man, this board is a gas! And I have no clue about what I just said.
Jack
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on April 10, 2007 08:51 PM:
"I guess we all should get back to something constructive..."
Absolutely. Now, where'd I put that Commodore 64....21 years and no crashes.
Rapid
[ April 10, 2007, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
Posted by Dusty Campbell (Member # 4601) on April 10, 2007 09:52 PM:
Ray, Amiga is where it's at. What are you some kind of mo-ron?
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on April 10, 2007 11:07 PM:
TI-99/4A
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on April 10, 2007 11:29 PM:
TRS-80 Model 4 upgraded to 128k...
All the computer you'll ever need.
(And David I had a TI-99/4A also... spending a couple hours typing in a program and saving it to an audio tape RULED)
[ April 10, 2007, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: Jon Jantz ]
Posted by Miles Cullinane (Member # 980) on April 11, 2007 05:30 AM:
Jon try the Sinclair ZX81 with a whopping 1K of memory but I did buy the 16K of extra ram.
moved from there to a short lived computer called the dragon32 with 32K of Ram.
Them were the days.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on April 11, 2007 12:26 PM:
Vic 20 guys! All jammed into a little white plastic case!
But if you really want to go there then.. the TelStar Pong Game... hours of fun watch a dot go back and forth!
But how many rember the ORANGE Computer system. Trying to compete with APPLE?
Posted by Paul Bierce (Member # 5412) on April 11, 2007 01:29 PM:
While not "ancient history", anyone remember the NEXT computer? Nobody made software for it but it sure looked cool.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on April 11, 2007 01:41 PM:
NEXT was UNIX-based, and I think that is why Apple bought them. They planned to integrate the NEXT OS with the Mac OS. I'm guessing that because the BSD development was well-developed, and open-source, Apple decided to use it rather than develop their own.
The big mistake with NEXT was they assumed nobody would want or need color. Macs flew off the shelves and the NEXT machines stayed put. It was a very promising product that went nowhere.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on April 11, 2007 01:43 PM:
Franklin was the company that made Apple clones...until they got stopped. It was proven that their computers contained proprietary Apple code.
Posted by Joe Sciury (Member # 4653) on April 11, 2007 03:36 PM:
Hey now, what about the Apple-ll......Looks like it's about to start all over again.....Just kidding
Yes, the Mac OS-X is basically a UNIX system built on technology that was developed at NEXT. When Steve Jobs got pushed out of Apple, I believe he went on to found NEXT Computer. Thus when returning to Apple in the late 90s along came the NEXT technology and OS-X .
Posted by Mr Curtis Dalton (Member # 7547) on April 12, 2007 08:32 AM:
Hahaha, hey everyone. I haven't used Vista yet...hmmm... I doubt I ever will. I'm a Mac nerd..actually, I'm a mac dork! No, wait... I just left my wife and married my Mac last week!! I have to say, I truley think Mac is the answer, however.. while using a PowerMac G4 at home, an iMac G5 and a MacBook at work, I will say if you decide to get a Mac, I would look for a PowerMac G5 somewhere, ... that way you can attach any monitor you want and you don't have to go through the Intel mess with your old programs!! Also, CorelDRAW 11 works awesome on Mac! Plus Every version of Photoshop and Illustrator work amazing on the G5, G4, and G3 Macs!! But if you get an extra powerful PC and upgrade everything on the planet to run Vista (including your socks) well... that's cool too.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on April 12, 2007 08:42 AM:
Hi. My name is Ray and I'm a Windows user.
It wasn't a habitual user at first. It started out with Windows 3.1 and I only used it as a social thing. Emails and the internet at first. A guy I know at the computer store turned me on to Win 95 and Adobe Photoshop and I started using more frequently. Before long I was hooked on solitaire and Internet Explorer. I just couldn't get enough. By the time Win 98 came out, I'd gotten CorelDRAW. I was hooked. Right clicking, changing my desktop wallpaper all the time, upgrading my hardware....all the signs were there...but I was playing Doom 2. I was addicted. My work began to slack off, I'd get exteremly outraged at power outages, my social life in chat rooms. I took virus attacks personally and spent more time cleaning my cache than my shop.
Despite the temptation, I never got Win 2000 or Millenium. It was a turning point in my life.
I was starting to recover and doing things in the real world, spending more quality time with my friends and family and getting my work done again.
By the time Win XP came out, I'd learned how to surf in moderation. Solitaire...it didn't have that same thrill any more. System Restoring was cool, but I didn't get hooked by it. Haven't bought a new video card in years. It's been good.
Vista's out there now and it's got a lot of tempting, pretty bells and whistles, but thanks to the past, I've learned a lot. It's still a little too new and I don't want to digress back into the days of changing desktop icons for hours, tweaking the screen saver settings and surfing the net for driver patches.
Vista may be ready for me, but I'm not ready for it. Until then, I'm keeping my OS clean and sober. Rapidoholic
[ April 12, 2007, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on April 12, 2007 10:16 AM:
Dusty, I had am Amiga 2000 and a 500. How many other computers has 1 *megabyte* - not gigs - and can run the OS and program on it and still not crash? Anyone that's familiar with the Amiga knows how truly ahead of it's time it was. Mac was using them as a "peripheral" - the video toaster, like you really needed the Mac for that. Too bad it didn't get the support or money it deserved; the world would certainly be a lot better off.
Posted by Dusty Campbell (Member # 4601) on April 12, 2007 10:27 AM:
I just love the passionate responses.
I imagine cavemen having the same arguement about whether a pointy stick is better than a stick with a sharp stone lashed to it.
"The stone is much sharper and won't dull as soon."
"But the stone can come off and you're left with no point at all."
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on April 12, 2007 12:24 PM:
Those are just the apprentice cavemen, Dusty.
The senior cavemen are all saying "You damn kids and your sticks and wheels. Here's how we kill with our bare hands, and aside from Ugh being killed by a bear last week, our methods are far superior."
Posted by Dusty Campbell (Member # 4601) on April 12, 2007 01:29 PM:
"If you spent more time killing with your bare hands and less time playing with those sticks you'd be strong like me."
"And Ugh didn't know which jobs to pick and which to pass on. Another important caveman lesson."
Good fun.
Posted by Dana Stanley (Member # 6786) on April 12, 2007 08:42 PM:
Boys Boys Has the os debate digressed the Letterville mentality back into the stone age?
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on April 12, 2007 09:54 PM:
Shut up and get some more fur so we can put it on a stick..Got lots of cave walls to paint!
Posted by Mark Tucker (Member # 6461) on April 12, 2007 10:32 PM:
quote:Originally posted by Dana Stanley: Boys Boys Has the os debate digressed the Letterville mentality back into the stone age?
As a matter of fact, I tossed both of my computers in the lake yesterday after absorbing all of this and went out and bought a Gerber SignMaker IV.
So how am I managing to post this, you ask? It came with XP. Posted by Eric Barker (Member # 2972) on April 12, 2007 11:36 PM:
I have found this whole thread very entertaining. I use both Mac and PC systems and generally get along well with both. I do need to clear some misconceptions:
All those millions of "Mac problems" posts on Google are generated by a bunch of Dell tech support washouts who Bill (short for Beelzebub) Gates has locked in a Calcutta basement and whose families he holds hostage to insure their continued compliance.
Nettie's Mac is the only one to ever have problems...and yes it was sabotaged by BBG's toadies.
The world as we know it DID begin in 1983.
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on April 13, 2007 12:00 PM:
I thought the Mac was released in 1984.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on April 13, 2007 01:29 PM:
It was. Their TV commercial played off George Orwell's 1984.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on April 13, 2007 01:30 PM:
What, you guys never saw a computer punch card before??? My mom used to make cool Christmas wreaths out of them as far back as the 60s.
I'm gonna go get my 1983 Texas Instruments laptop, drop a cassette into it, write a few lines of basic, and play space invaders for the rest of the day...peace. Rapid
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on April 13, 2007 02:08 PM:
I shuffled many a deck of punch cards at George Mason College in my computer science class in 1969. We had IBM 360 and Xerox Sigma 7 mainframes. I think my watch has more computing power now.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on April 13, 2007 04:21 PM:
Ricky, I still have a few Amigas around and an emulator. You got to admit, this all looks too familiar. Amigaphiles were just as zealous in their support too. Of course, there was good reason to be, it was way ahead of the others. Now, what's the real difference? Not much, get a religion or join the local lodge.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on April 13, 2007 05:15 PM:
Did have the Amiga 1000 with all the signature of the production group under the main plastic cover. NOW WHERE DID I PUT IT? OK I remember! I'm sure it was the landfill sight! with the toaster and hard case 80mg drive.
I may have some of the MS_DOS 3.5 load up floppies here somewhere!
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on April 13, 2007 07:05 PM:
Holy crap Stephen, you had one with a hard drive?? We call that "tall cotton" down here.
David you are right on about the Amiga zealots. We had a "users group" called P.I.G.S. (pirates in georgia somewhere). We even had a logo of a wild boar with a bandana, nose ring and eye patch. Man I miss that system.
Posted by Mike Normington (Member # 7520) on April 14, 2007 05:58 PM:
This is to all the MAC elitists posting on this thread:
Get over yourselves AND your MACs. If they were worth paying a lot more for I would buy one, but they are not. They do have pretty cases though. Yup, they ARE pretty.
Bill Gates bashing is easy. Why don't you find yourselves a CHALLENGE?
Posted by Jason Davie (Member # 2172) on April 14, 2007 06:16 PM:
Mike Welcome to letterville.... Nice Introduction..
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on April 14, 2007 06:18 PM:
Posted by E. Balch (Member # 3545) on April 14, 2007 07:25 PM:
We have an Amiga 500 and a pile of games. Last year at christmas my 21 year old son and 25 year old daughter dug it out of the closet and marveled at the great graphics created by that 2 MHz processor and a few support chips. The operating system was a version of unix. Too bad Amiga didn't survive.
ernie
[ April 14, 2007, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: E. Balch ]
Posted by Mike Normington (Member # 7520) on April 14, 2007 07:37 PM:
I had a Timex Sinclair. I just saw one on EBay. Anybody ever have one of those? I also learned BASIC on a Commodore 64. Nice. Sprites! And you could save to a cassette.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on April 14, 2007 09:11 PM:
Soo! between Apples and Oranges!
How much are they worth? As much as you need them to be!
I'm still running '15' different programs as I type this with "XP"
I think I will buy "VISTA" as I know that I will run at least 20 to 30 programs with it........... Trouble Free.
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for the compliments! You guys kept prodding so I couldn't resist, stating some facts for you. I guess we all should get back to something constructive ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
