Any tips for a sprite-sized post hole diggin fool who will be installing a 4X6 on 12ft posts in the next few days. I live in the Appalachian Mountains. The temperature is has been in single digits or below zero with wind chill. The ground is frozen solid. The frost line is app. 15". I do have a gas powered auger but....man, it really doesn't work very well. I prefer the manual route. It gets bound up so easily and there is ALWAYS ridiculous rock along the way. Any advice would be useful and much appreciated. -Sarah
Posted by Mark Pinkse (Member # 1204) on :
Hi Sarah
I have found when it gets to this time of year ( and I live in Northern Ontario )it is just easier, faster and usually cheaper to get in a contractor with a Auger Truck. They have the horse power and should easily get through the frost. It will cost usually the min charge of 1 hour but it is well worth it.
Good Luck
Mark
Posted by Gary Hove (Member # 4970) on :
You could always thaw the ground before you dig. If you only have 15inches of frost. I have placed burning coal on the ground and then covered it with straw. takes a while but it does work. A bit of a mess to clean up afterwards as well.
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
or a 20lb bag of meltaway..cover with hay and the next morning the ground will be thawed.
Posted by Mike O'Neill (Member # 470) on :
8-12ft frost here now, depends on snow cover, only way to dig a hole is with a D8 equipped with a ripper. Talk about messy... We (and everyone else here) install only "In Season"
Broken pipes in winter tend to be real expensive, water break last year in January cost me 12k, my portion and the town was more than fair.
Posted by Ivan Allan (Member # 885) on :
Sarah,
Yes, in season only here in Saskatchewan.
Hey Mike,
59 was an extremely good year eh!
Posted by Mike O'Neill (Member # 470) on :
Lately I wish it was '79...
Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
The above mentioned experiences are all right on the money..but if you need to put it up now, I have made a "Skid" out of 6"X 6" posts that can be put in place, til the ground is warm.
Then take the "Skid Sign" down and mount up as you would have in warm weather, and keep the "Skid Sign" for other jobs.
I have a picture of one....
Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
Sarah, the above do sound great, but if the sign must go up as do alot of mine here when they are completed here is what we use. I go to the rental center and rent a small electric Hilti Jackhammer and I have dug plenty of holes with this buy chipping down the frost line and then finishing with beleive it or not a hand post hole digger. The Jackhammer is a great tool also when working in alot of the Lime rock shelfs we have around here. When you dig a nice hole and get that one big rock it sure is nice to be able to set it in the hole and a couple of chatters at it and it will break right up. Remember this is an Electric one a big difference from an air powered one. I would'nt work without it. Sam
Posted by Dave Correll (Member # 100) on :
Here's a pioture of Mike's skid sign....(I gotta get over to Mazep' to show him how post photos!}
Posted by Duncan Wilkie (Member # 132) on :
Here's an install we did today. This is an impact resistant system post (IRS)The post pivots if it gets run into. We hammer drilled holes in the asphalt then usually use epoxy caulk to set the bolts. I figured we should give Magic Smooth a shot this time. It was -15C. This was a panic job, normally we'd wait for better weather. I'll check it in the spring. Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Even if you could dig the hole, you can't set concrete in this weather unless you replace it in the spring. We do what Mike Meyer's does.
I had a hospital that had to have their sign up as soon as I was done making it. They screwed around and didn't get me the deposit until December. I found an outfit that can bore through frost. He wouldn't even quote me a price. He simply said "you can't afford us."
Now I don't know what kind of temps you have around you, but around here in Upper Michigan, even the power augers just sit and spin on the frost.
By the way, last night on the news they reported many areas with the frost 4 feet down already.
Posted by Sarah F.Evans (Member # 7022) on :
I can't do the "Skid Sign" in this circumstance. It is a 4X6 with a hanging sign underneath, on 12ft posts, on the side of a mountain in bum @##%#$%D! Egypt. It could go through somebody's windshield if not set in the ground. The winds here are fierce. I'm wondering if I should wait for warmer weather. However, he may get fed up and go somewhere else. Thanks so much for all of the good advice guys!
Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
Sure you can! The "Ranch Rodeo" is approx 4'X 6' and I use long spikes that drive thru the 6" X6" posts to make it stable....this thing is NOT blowing down....I usually put it together in-shop, then load it on a trailer and drop it off where it's needed.....oh hell, I'll be right down to give you a hand Sarah, ya got any Moon Pies and RC Cola down yonder?
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
u can set mud when its this cold.. but you have to treat it.. calcium chloride or something like taht
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Curtis, not where we live. The calcium chloride is good for slightly freezing temps, but with our cold you won't have good concrete. I discussed this at length with an engineer for power dams up here. You would have to insulate the hole to have any success.
Mike's right. We did that with a 5 x 8 electric sign sitting in a wind tunnel. Spiked the ends down and dowsed them with water to freeze them in. Held tight the rest of the winter.
[ February 08, 2007, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: Dave Sherby ]
Posted by Sarah F.Evans (Member # 7022) on :
The biggest issue I have (my customer would have) with doing a temporary system would be price. I would have to charge him for the time to do it twice. This guy has been nickel and diming me to death! But another question, what material do you "spike" it down with? Thanks again guys for all this great info!
Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
An big ol Nail! Barn nails I gues they are called....the biggest damn nails you can find! North Kakalacky can't be that cold!
Moon Pie?
Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
Dave,
I have a church sign that will be set the begining of next week in Sault Ste. Marie, MI.
It will be a piece of cake. I have been setting winter signs for the last 15 years around here and I have never (Knock on wood). No never mind knock on wood. I trust my settings and I have never had a sign tilt, uplift, or fail in any other way because of frost freeze. And they are all set with dry cement.
As I said in another post. An electric Hilti jackhammer takes out the frost and leaves a very clean hole to finish. Sam
Posted by Rick Milne (Member # 4621) on :
Sarah, Go to the rental store and get one of those large propane torches and a couple 20# propane tanks. Scrape everything flammable away from where you need to dig, and blast away. Dig out the warmed area as you go - it helps if you have a partner with you to hold the torch. Goes pretty quick!
Rick
Posted by Mike Faig (Member # 6104) on :
I'm a double poster.
[ February 10, 2007, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: Mike Faig ]
Posted by Mike Faig (Member # 6104) on :
Mike Meyer, I'll bring the moon pies and my snowboard. Don't know abour RC cola. How about CheerWine. Grab your boards and let's go.
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
I'm with Sam on this one. Get an electric hammer from a tool rental, if the job has to be done now. It will do the job. Bust up some ground; use a post hole digger to clean it up. Do it again until you get below the frost. It'll work.
Next, tell your customer how you will have to do it, and that he is going to be charged EXTRA to compensate for the extra effort to serve him.
If he balks, let him go elsewhere. You don't need this kind of customer. Good luck.
Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
I have 19" arms and a well worn slatebar. If I cant get through it with that, I go home. Posted by Sarah F.Evans (Member # 7022) on :
Okay, the thought of renting a jack hammer makes me want to hybernate for the winter. I really don't want to have any additional expenses with this job. I won't be able to get any more from this guy than he has already agreed to pay. I'm testing the ground at my house with this ice melt thing. If that doesn't work, I'm not sure what I'll do. P.S. Are the Jack Hammers gas powered?
Posted by Sarah F.Evans (Member # 7022) on :
Ya'll be careful what you say about coming up here to snowboard and dig holes with a Jack Hammer. I might take you seriously. My folks do have a vacation home up here...........LOL
Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
$45.00 for an all day rental and it will take you through 18" of frost in no time. I said not to let the word Jackhammer throw you, this thing does wonders.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Sam, I'll stop over on my way down state in 2 weeks and you can show me. That's what I get for listening to an engineer.
Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
Dave, I will be around I would love to have you stop by. Once your down of the bridge ask anyone they will get you here.
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