One thing I really miss about having my shop at home compared to “out in the public” is not being bothered by yahoos.
Yahoo #1 comes strolling in: (with a heavy Spanish accent) You got some old English letters?
Me: We don’t just have letters.
Y1: Your sign says lettering?
Me: Our stuff is custom cut for each job.
Y1: Man…you don’t just have some letters we can just buy right now?
Me: No…we don’t just have pre cut letters sitting around…maybe you could try WalMart.
Y1: Nooo…we were already there…they don’t got no old English… you should get some…a lot of peoples would buy from you.
Me: Can’t…it takes a different business license to sell just letters.
Y1: Oh…ok…thank you.
Yahoo #2: How much to put on these stickers I bought off the computer? The directions say just to spray some stuff on’em and stick’em right down…but we don’t want to mess’em up! (stripes for the back of the bed sides on a Dodge truck)
Me: No less than $55, could be as much as $80...depends on how it goes. If we happen to mess them up we’re not responsible for carry -in graphics.
Y2: Well we only paid a dollar for’em on Ebay!!!
(These are two 48”x8” stripes with a Ram head in the center)
Me: A DOLLAR!!!
Y2: Yes…thays only a dollar…shipping was $20 dollars…I think that’s where they make their money!
Y2’s wife: Well fer that much we can just put them on our selfs!
Me: I think you could probably do it just fine…You have a nice day now…ya here!
Jeff Posted by Jerry VanHorn (Member # 4704) on :
I made am offer on a 4400 sq/ft building today. I have been looking forward to getting out of the shop at our residence. I don't think it matters where you are, yahoos are everywhere.
Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
I have come to the conclusion that I pretty much HATE people. I am home-based, but today a guy's wife called and cancelled his $300 order. "It's not what I wanted". I have been dealing with him alone for 15 years. He's a good customer too. GRRRR. love....Jill
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
Where's Bob Burns with his tag line?
"The customer's your enemy. Act like it."
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
I'm trying to understand the need for the humiliation technique, or the lies. We don't treat people like that in our shop. We treat them like people.
The other day a guy came in the shop looking to get a price on duplicating a decal for a motor home club he belongs to. He had terrible art to work from, but I assured him we could make it look great if he wanted to pay the art charge. Initially I thought he might only want a few, but he ended up ordering 500 decals. Not too shabby. If we had treated him like trash we would have lost that sale.
A girl came in not too long ago asking if we could duplicate the graphic on her cracked windshield. State inspection required her to replace the windshield and she wanted the same graphic. She had bought it at a booth at the fair for $10. Instead of nailing her to a cross and lighting a fire under it, I told her we could duplicate the graphic, but it would be at least a half hour of computer time plus the price to produce and install it. She thought about it for a moment, and then said she'd better not spend that much money. She thanked me and left. Simple. No malice. No hate.
And, just because someone says, "Uh, ok. Thank you" doesn't mean they actually bought your story. A spanish accent doesn't equate to stupid. They see an impossible situation for what it is.
I'm sorry, but I don't see mistreating people as a cause for celebration, or a business practice I ever hope to emulate.
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Some of our best customers have come from trying to be understanding even when the request seems ridiculous and off the wall.
Would it have really killed you to open the computer and showed them what was available?
I'm confused with the attitude (you yourself depict in your post)...when your tag line says "my glass is half full".
I'm thinking that if you treated me that way I would spill some of your positive attitude by going out and telling people how I was treated in your shop.
Might be a good time to check your hubcaps.
[ October 03, 2006, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
I think you guys a being a little hard on Jeff... I can see both sides on this one. I know at our shop we try really hard to HELP our customers and make them happy, just like you describe. BUT sometimes alot of how a customer is treated here is what attitude THEY come in with! I don't like to be mistreated anymore than the next guy. If the customer is condescending and has an attitude like "What's wrong with you? Can't you see you are here to meet my every whim?", I can lose patience real quick! I don't like people coming in and telling me how I would be so much smarter if I just did everything THEIR way, especially when they don't have a clue what they are talking about! And even if there is a language barrier, I find it really difficult to be "kind and helpful" when they try to "horse trade" as Bill calls it. I had a guy call here last week wanting a price on a sign for their new business, which just happened to be a Mexican restaurant. I spent quite a bit of time trying to help him figure out what he needed (vs. what he wanted) and we finally came to a workable solution. I gave him a price and he said "No, No, No! You have to do better than that!" I said, "Well sir, when I come into your restaruant in the future and order a meal, I don't plan to say "no, No, No! You have to do better!" This is what it costs for me to run my business and I need to make a living just like you." Maybe that was a little harse, but he really wanted me to jump through hoops! He wanted it cheap, tomorrow, and deluxe....those really don't go together. I am sure we will see some cheap banner that someone made with a magic marker up there on his old sign in the next few days and you can bet THAT will bring a bunch of high dollar customers to their store. Again, we really ARE nice people, but NOBODY including Jeff, likes to be jacked around... Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
I think you guys are being way too hard on Jeff. I deal with this every day also, as I have a storefront right in town. Thing is, I dont do windshield stickers, or door names, etc. I have a75.00 minimum charge and very politely tell each one that when asked. They buy these things at flea markets and such, and come in not intending to put more than ten bucks into it, and get upset when they cant get it for that. I dont think Jeff treated the two customers bad at all. Ive seen some shop owners be much more harsh than that. Jeff probably knew from the banter between them that there wasnt any money to be made and dealt with it accordingly and respectfully.
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Customers... oh my goodness. You guys have often mentioned the "girlfriend or wife" of the customer stepping in. That is what I am dealing with.
It has taken me over a month to finally get a logo from the people who printed their tee shirts, & she is so angry, she is yelling at me over it. No logo, no sign. It is not my fault!!!!!!
She is telling me to keep it simple, they are simple people...but she wants what is on the tee shirt to fit on the sign!
SHE ASKS ME,"WHY DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE A LAYOUT WHEN YOU HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEED???????????"
She asks me why it is such a problem to remove the old vinyl off a 4'x8' sign, when she did it easily from her truck(which she taps on with her fingernails while she is snipping at me). I told her (trying hard not to lose my cool), "Have you tried to get that off that sign?"(motioning to the old sign) She says, "Well, yeaaaaa...." I can see where she tried to pick at it & quit!
Anyway, I kept my cool. I did not flame back at her, which I felt she deserved. I had this account for quite a while with the old owners. I dealt with the new owner before the new girlfriend came along, & I do not want to lose him. I have no problem with him.
The sad thing is, I had to vent so my hubby had to hear it!
Edited to correct punctuation!
[ October 03, 2006, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Bobbie Rochow ]
Posted by Jeff Spradling (Member # 1615) on :
It truly amazes me how things are perceived here.
I doubt you’ll find someone that goes more out of their way to accommodate a customer than I do! On many occasions I have read here the way people supposedly treat their customers and have thought either they’re making this up or embellishing a story. Either way I read it and let it roll off my shoulder.
The two above stories were an embellishment of actual events that took place at our shop recently. The actual events were handled in a professional way. They were meant to give a little ON TOPIC humor. Much like jokes that others tell here!
Sorry I didn’t post them as (OT JOKE)!!!!
Like anyone else that has been in this business for a lengthily time, I have definitely had customers that deserve to be treated poorly based on their attitude and only an a very few occasions have I “fired a customer”
Those of you that are quick to pass judgment on this post apparently haven’t read many other thing I have posted here.
Jeff Posted by tony dietz (Member # 4942) on :
Customer service doesn't always relate to giving in or doing what the customer wants..... 1/2 the time they have no clue what they want or can afford. The biggest issue is people who give their time and skills away for a less than standard return. Any good shop owner knows that you can't afford to lose money on any aspect of what we do.
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
Jeff, this is a serious forum, dedicated to the proper treatment of all customers regardless of their attitude and demeanor. Please refrain from any attempts at humor.
Now go to your room for 15 min. and NO TV.
<--- this means *I'M JOKIN', FOLKS" Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
Yeah, Jeff, shape up or we will have to take your recess away! Posted by jake snow (Member # 5889) on :
Store fronts are great if you are starting out (and not willing to get out and hussle biz) or in the "high volume" market. I personally would be back at home if I had the money to build the shop I want (which I could if my wife would quit wanting to build onto the house!! ) My shop is off a bizzy hwy in a industrial park. Me likey. I keep my door locked (just ask Mike Barnes) for several reasons. One reason is if someone happens to find me without calling first, then more than likely I don't want to fool with them. I do believe a customer should be treated with respect like I would want to be treated BUT, not having a store front can help you to NOT deal with the kind of clients that you would rather not. Consider it "caller I.D." if you will. Anybody that comes to my shop is someone I have already been dealing with OR someone I have spoke with on the phone. If I have a good customer, than I will put up with a little "pain in the a##", if I have a customer that is paying me $10 grand plus for a job I will put up with a little more (within reason). But having been in this biz since I was born and watching all the years of my dad dealing with customers, I have learned that the "tire kickers" or "yahoos"(I like that) are nothing more than a waste of time. And if they are rude also, than they are out the door before my brush dries.
To reply to Jeff's question. If you can move home and you have a good customer base, or are willing to get out and pound the pavement to make up for slow times. MOVE HOME! Posted by Jerry VanHorn (Member # 4704) on :
I am looking at things a little differently right now. We have worked from our home shop for nearly 16 years. I buy shop equipment almost weekly, so we are very well set up to make any kind of sign. The problem I see is working from our home based shop is I feel we are looked at at a part-timer in the publics eye. How often do you go to someone's house to buy anything?? We have an excellent client base, but most of it is carved signs, digital prints and vehicle lettering. We have lately been bidding on $20,000 - $40,000 message centers, illuminated pole signs, channel letters and the like. I will never turn away a customer because of the size of the job, but I feel working from an attractive commercial storefront is going to make it easier to get the better jobs, and some of the better customers. My goal it to continue working for some of the larger commercial costruction companies in the area. We are moving into a very large commercial property soon with 4 bays, reception area, offices, layout room and a very large shop area to house our screen printing equipment, router table, ect. My first job at the new shop is going to be a kick a$$ sign for myself. I haven't made a sign for us for close to 5 or 6 years.
The grass always looks greener on the other side, right?
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Yeah..lighten up on Jeff will ya? Don't you remember his longsuffering story on Jose A and Jose B?
He seems like the type to give people far more than they probably deserve.
If ya can't vent here, where can you?! Just be glad you're not in the local theatre when I decide to go out for a movie...hehehe.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Hey Jeff, that guy was here yesterday!
Now, seriously, it's hard to judge Jeff's situation unless you have a retail studio. I happen to have one. I can see his feeling, especially if you are working on a design, you're behind the 8 ball, and in walks a tire kicker....AARRRRGHHHH! Or, you are painting something very detailed and in walks the tire kicker. I'm telling you, it's frustrating! I never make a profit on "stickers" With art time, plotter time, etc. The onsie-twozie stuff is a waste of time. For that, the Internet is a better option.
I can see Russ' point too. There have been times that a tire kicker became a great client! But, veeeeeery rarely.
[ October 03, 2006, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by Deri Russell (Member # 119) on :
quote:"The grass always looks greener on the other side, right?"
RIGHT!!! And it doesn't matter whether you have retail space or you don't, there are good and bad points to both. And either way you get tire-kickers. And yes sometimes they actually do see the error of their ways and become good clients. But let's face it, generally they don't.
And sometimes its not only fun to poke fun at them but it vents your frustrations.
ksssssssssshhhhhhhhhh mayday mayday- spotted enemy customer approching.............into positions everyone kssssssssshhhhhhhhhhh Rodger that sign man!! ksssssssshhhhhhhhhhhh Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
I am baffled gy this obsessiom to sell to every Yahoo that walks in!
The world will not end if you escort them to the door and point to another shop!
We are in business to earn a living by making a profit, not to cater to every piddling whim someone desires. How do you expect to make money on a $40 sign if you have to spend an hour messing with the customer...before you even start?
Deaton has one answer...$75 minimum! That gets rid of the 'sticker for my car window' type. Or, "Sorry, we are not set up for that type of work." usually works.
When the typs that wants to grind you down on price, I have two types of remarks:
1. "$350! I don't like that price!" "OH! Then it's now $400!"
2. "I have been in business for 39 years and don't need the practice, if I can't make a profit, I don't want the job!"
At that point you have set the ground rules...it is up to them to deal with you as a professional, or for them to leave!
Just my 2¢ !
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
It seems like I have been misunderstood as well. I'm not saying you have to adjust your prices to accomodate the client. I'm not saying you have to let someone waste all your time. If you state a price and they leave - great. It is the idea of being rude to a someone almost before they can speak. What really bugged me about Jeff's response was the lie about the business license. I have been a consumer on the receiving end of nonsense like that, and it makes my blood boil when it happens. There are people who hate to have their time wasted, but they will spend their time freely if it involves messing with other people's heads. In our shop we are polite to customers until they give us good reason not to be. It's certainly possible I read too much into Jeff's mix of fiction and non-fiction, but that was what set me off.
Posted by Rene Giroux (Member # 4980) on :
You know Jeff, if there was one of them yahoos in the middle of your next big vinyl ball in the shop... nobody would know !!! Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
I guess it takes all kinds to make the world go round. I take these little pita jobs every week, charging an average of about $30. It takes about 20 - 30 minutes tops; they pay in cash and I stash the money. We take a posh 2 week trip to Alaska every year, with airfare, on that money. Every time I'm tempted to whine about someone that can't make up their mind about what they want or whatever, I just think about the reward next summer. It's all in how you look at it.
Posted by Paul Bierce (Member # 5412) on :
I've become convinced that most people think Graphic Arts professionals aren't really in business, they just do it as a hobby.
Besides, with PC's in virtually every household most of the population thinks they could do the work themselves if they had the software and a little extra time.
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Jeff ...No offense intended I was only replying to the text as it was written...if it was in jest maybe a smiley or two would help.
It is very hard to discern someone elses feelings without seeing their face when something is being said.
I just know how I feel when someone is giving me the brush when I'm trying to give them my hard earned money.
Here's hoping you never get another "Yahoo"...oh and good luck!
[ October 05, 2006, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]
Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
I could not deal with a storefront. im not good with people and Im not good with phones. I go to everyone that needs help if the job is not desireable I send them elsewhere. If the job is too small I send them elsewhere. I have no patince for people picking out fonts and/or colors while I stand at the counter.
When I started this business I had always dreamend af a great showroom with lots of examples, gemini letters, color samples....you name it. Now I come to you I have a card and a brochure. If that dont get it for you go somewhere else. I have to agree with Jill I cannot stand people. The less Im around them the better off I am
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
I try to be polite to everyone who comes into the shop. But then you do get rude folks sometimes.
There was the guy who recently came in with black grease all over him. His hands were completely covered. This guy is a nice enough but he is handling signs, the samples, my nice clean WHITE walls, everything. I had to degrease the door facings, signs etc. when he finally left. He seemed to be of average intelligence but it didn't seem to bother him at all. I sold the job, lettered his truck and politely whisked him out the door.
Then you have folks who seem to be obsessed with performing tests on the physical properties and dent resistance of someone elses HDU sign...or one of our samples. They walk up to it, tap a couple of times and then their fingernails automatically rotate downward for the "dig". Got to see if it can take the punishment I guess. So you smile while firmly pointing out the small sample on the sales counter, put there just to satisfy their curiosity.
And we won't forget the lady who comes in for a $10 yard sign(in her mind) honouring her favorite football star or professional wrestler while she ignores her deranged 7-year-old who is on a mission to lay waste to everything in sight. He walks over, puts one foot on a new sandblasted sign, looks at mom as if to say "what you gonna do?" Yeah....I'm up to my elbows in epoxy...which is setting up on me....the only thing that saved me from going to prison for a long time and him being a quadriplegic. Yeah....I tried to use a friendly tone of voice when I suddenly blurted out a ridiculously high price for her sign. She wasted no time getting out the door.
And there are always those who come in with brilliant ideas like...."if you make my sign real cheap (or free), I'll let you put your name on it". I've heard that soooo many times, I could just scream.
Or, better yet, the "refined gentleman" who buffaloes in like he owns the place, kicks all the tires and the sales counter too. Spits gobs of 'backer juice all over your steps and threshold. Then gets a little hostile and is raving profanity after hearing a price quote. I guess that's meant to intimidate the nice guy into cowing down on the price? So you smile like Jimmy Carter, walk over to the front door, open it and sweetly say "have a nice day!...Y'all come back now...ya hear?" Yeah...store fronts are fun!!
Which reminds me of the one who needs to use "special words" for emphasis. Normally I just let them slide...I've heard 'em all, said most all the ones I know of....so who am I to judge huh? But when you have to give it your best shot at respectfully asking him not to talk that way in front of your wife and kids, who happen to be in the shop that day. Then the wife takes the kids outside. You give him a price quote, he goes from noticeably indignant to downright hostile, pulls out all the stops, cusses you real good and proper and huffs out the door.
But then, the majority of folks are nice and once in awhile you get someone who wants you to build him some parts for "coontraps".
"Ahhhh....only if you bring me a live 'coon." Yeah I did! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ October 05, 2006, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
dp
[ October 05, 2006, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
Wayne, I've had to reprimand the baccy-chewin' customer before... had one that would come in and spit in our trash cans, right on top of the vinyl scraps, premask, etc. I asked him nicely not to do it because we occasionally compress the garbage by hand, when the can is filled with just paper. He didn't pay much attention but didn't spit any more that trip...
Next time he came in, same thing. Constant spitting in the trash can. I was pretty rude about it that time and told him my employees were gonna force me to ban him as a customer if they put their hands in his tobacco juice one more time.
He apologized to me and them, and after that brought in a spit cup with him...
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