I have been a professional pin striper since 1959. I started in 1956 but messed up a few cars until I got the hang of it. I really started getting good money in the sixties.
So.....My question is. How many of you have wanted to become a good pin striper and get paid a decent price for your work after the struggles of learning the trade?
Also, where would you go to seek knowledge of the craft?
The older I get,the more curiouser I get.
CrazyJack
Posted by Dusty Campbell (Member # 4601) on :
I'd like to have it in my bag of tricks. I'd dig making a living at it.
I'd pick as many brains of those who know that would let me for the technical side. I'd look at anything striped or decorated for nice looking lines.
My personal preference draws me to carriage type stuff right now, but my tastes will change I'm sure. As a striper, I'm still an infanct(read like Popeye's saying it). Less than a year old little baby. And to me my stuff looks like what a one year old makes after eating. I'm looking forward to going to the Dixie meet to get an overload of technique.
Edited for mis-spellimg.
[ September 28, 2006, 05:56 AM: Message edited by: Dusty Campbell ]
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
I get curious too, Jack. In the carraige trade downunder, most people who do a bit either put dreadfully wrong truck scrolls & too-heavy lines in the wrong places, or the few who know what goes where, get in their own rut and keep to the same colour combinations designs and line weights, irrespective of the vehicle type (passenger, classy, passenger common, trade business, trade haulage, farm) nor what was the go in the particular decade of that vehicle's construction.
I think I'm one of the five or fewer in Oz who try to expand the variety of traditionally correct styles and colour schemes.
Where did I learn- as a kid, I used to drive to Sydney (1100 km south) twice a year, to do work, and to Melbourne (1700 km south) once a year- for about 10 years. I'd try and look at whatever museums & collections I could find on each trip, and photograph & draw the designs. I also tried to meet up with any old coachpainters who learnt the trade back in the 1920s or earlier to discuss ideas. I also have old trade journals pre 1918 on microfilm- 28 years of it, back to 1890, which gives you a headache reading it, but it's a good resource.
They're not around any more, of course, and one day I'll make a book about it, but in the last say 10 to 15 years I've not known anyone trying to follow the history like I have done. Nor are people generally as fussy or particular, and that bothers me a bit.
I can't stand seeing vintage trucks, 'done up' by local businesses, then striped by a signie with no sympathy to what was correct in the 30s or 40s. It's out of ignorance of course, but you see too much of it for my liking...
Rant over!
As for making a living striping- it'd be nice, but the population of Australia isn't quite what the population of USA is- there's not as much to go around. It's a handy addition to signwriting- or to put it a better way, which is how I got into it- being able to signwrite is a handy addition to being able to stripe.
I've barely done any cars, except a score of vintage & veteran ones, and only a handful of trucks- I just haven't pushed that avenue yet.
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
I have been pinstriping for over 10 years, but it always seems where ever i turn there is some Crazy Jack, that is way better than me. At 36 yo, the only thing about getting older is being that old crazy guy myself. This past weekend we were at Karyn Bush's meet with Ted Kiley, a young inspired 24 yo striper, who reminds me alot of me 10 years ago. I think maybe I am starting to get the hang of this stuff, until I hangout with guys that got 20+ years in, then I start to feel like Teddy again.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
"How many of you have wanted to become a good pin striper and get paid a decent price for your work after the struggles of learning the trade?"
I wanted to get into pinstriping right from the get go but really had no one around here who both did it and was available to learn from. I made a few attempts when someone gave me a Mack sword brush 10+ years ago, got frusrtated and gave up trying. Hadn't owned a striping brush since.
"Also, where would you go to seek knowledge of the craft?" At my first Letterhead meet, there were a dozen people doing pinstriping and in 3 days I got more tips and training than I had ever imagined possible from Mike & Jay Z, Alan Johnson, Harris, Captain Ken and others. Heck, I hadda buy a brush that day just to join in the fun I was so terrified of them all those years.
Since then, being able to work with and just watch guys like Jim Norris, Artie Schilling, Frank Magoo, Brian Briskie, Bruce Cambriello, Joe Buck, Gary Cole and so many others at meets has only added to learning curve, not only in the mechanics of pinstriping, but in understanding the value of doing it well and continuing to practice and improve those skills. Although there's not a booming market for it here, having it as an additional weapon in the aresenal has been both profitable and enjoyable since.
The real fun has been watching Gump's progress. Going to meets, he's gotten a love for pinstriping and learned a lot at just 16 years old. After spending some time with Bill Reidel this past weekend, he's motivated to practice and improve his lettering skills.
If you've ever sat on the fence as to whether you should go to a live meet, trust me, it can change your life in many ways. There's a couple of guys in this shop pulling pinstripes who never thought they would or could. Rapid
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Well, I sure hope I DO get to be good enough to make some good money at it. I have enough things to practice on, that is for sure!
I agree with you, Ray, going to Letterhead Meets is the best way, I think, & being here to post questions. You guys have been more than gracious to give me tips & encourage me. I know I still am far from being as good as you, but I will get there if I keep at it!
Ian, let me know when you decide to put that book together & publish it! I would just love to meet you someday, & looking at all your research sure would be something.
I NEVER thought I would EVER be able to stripe ANY thing at all, til Bill Diaz showed me hands on at Jill's last summer. When I first got there, I saw a few striped panels, & right away I thought, "Boy, I will never have one of THOSE." The Bill took the time to show me some things. So patient that man is!!!!!
I happened to be sitting next to Mark that weekend, & Sunday morning, I watched Mark, how he drew his grid & everything. I asked him if he would add to my panel if I could do something on one, & he agreed. I tell you what, after I put my first stripes on that panel, I ran over to show Bill "my teacher", & at first I could not talk! Oh my, my throat got all choked up & I almost thought I might cry, I was so filled with emotion!!!
I know, I know, you GUYS are thinking how stupid that sounds! But I NEVER thought I could do that! I took home a really nice panel that had my work, Mark's, Bill's, Sal's, Danz's, & Rapid's!!!!
Now when I see some of you again, you will see my work needs a lot more practicing, but that is ok! I am not quitting!
Sure hope I get to meet you sometime Jack, & Joey, & Frank, & oh...all you people who can stripe!
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Letterhead meets???? How bout Pinstriping meets, theres where you learn pinstriping. Theres a meet coming up this weekend from SketchKult on long Island which in time will change the face of pinstriping and vehicle art in general and one at Bob Bonds place in Missouri shortly. Why do some take one thing and believe it to be part of another trade.
Sorry, but I'm bothered by persons who believe that crap where signs and pinstriping are the same, its like going to a shoemaker and asking him to make you a leather suit.
Just like when persons put me into a catagory where they want someone elses style but wants me to do it. I'm a straight line striper who never had the need to do signage for a living no less use a friggin computer and clipart as if my imagination isn't good enough and I'm certainly not going to copy work that I saw 40 friggin years ago where persons today are painting over and over as if these new vehicles were stuck in a time warp which they aren't.
And I never wake up on the wrong side of the bed, its just that I am me and you are you and we are not all together at all times. The only time we are together is when we have the same paint on our work station.
My rant is that there are just to many persons believing that nothing really changes where it really counts and after 50 plus years of me not giving a flying f--- of what the next guy is doing makes me fly into a rage over frivolous unadulterated bullcrap which is what these two seperate crafts have in common, almost nothing except that sometimes I have to paint three small half inch initials for someones monogram or their name across their drivers door.
I have seen so many Pseudo pinstripers buy into plotters, sign programs and clipart only to make less money then they could have if they actually did great friggin work with what they were trained for and some of them actually made money teaching others because their own work sucked in general.
Hows that for an answer Jack
Speak at ya soon......
[ September 28, 2006, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Joey Madden ]
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
Now I lay me down to sleep... I pray thee Joey my soul to keep...
Seriously, I would love to learn the art of striping, and look forward to being exposed to it at the (*gasp*) Dixie Meet. At this point going to a huge pinstriping show would be information overload. I need to take the time to read through a lot of the online help.. (such as on Joey's site), then do like Bobbie and get a slap in the right direction from someone who knows what they are doing....
Let me be crystal clear, this will all be a hobby totally unrelated to my sign work.
Posted by Kelsey Dum (Member # 6101) on :
Hey guys and gals.
I just turned 24 and hope to have pinstriping as one of the mediums in which I "master". "Master" is such a strong woord though. No matter how good you are at something there is always someone better. So being #1 is not my priority but being ONE of the best would be nice.
It's not a lost trade but there seem to be fewer and fewer people doing it by hand. I figure in 20 years from now there will be substantially less people in the craft and more into vinyl.
Finding a teacher is hard, but practice makes perfect and you could have the best teacher in the world and never become good at pinstriping. The more you pull out the brushes the better you will get. Trial and Error are a big role in the learning process.
Having someone to answer questions for you is nice, ,but the only way to become a pinstriper is to PINSTRIPE...again...and again...and again...ect.
So to sum it up, yes, I would love to (and will) become good enough at pinstriping to make good money and earn the respect of my fellow pinstripers.
Posted by Dusty Campbell (Member # 4601) on :
Joey, will you do me an eyeball like that Von Drunk guy on the hood of my 79 TransAm?
Posted by Dusty Campbell (Member # 4601) on :
And to be a super smartass, why do you post on a sign painters' site?
I'm just pushing your buttons, you can give me one across the jaw fer it if I ever meet you.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Jon Jantz said it correctly even though he may have been trying to be a smartass : Let me be crystal clear, this will all be a hobby totally unrelated to my sign work.
and for you Dusty, I think a new pair of rollerblades will be in your stockings this Christmas. Dusty, FYI this isn't just a sign site and if you were here long enough you might have known that. Steve put this site up for many kinds of artists and at one time even wanted Tattooists to participate. For whatever reason you believe my outlook on this subject may be wrong it is what I believe and if persons think that doing many things makes them more money, only time will tell. So far doing many things keeps ones mind so occupied that there isn't enough time in the day to make money and thats why so many other professionals have a specific market that they are tuned into to. look around you and check out the many professionals I speak of without naming names.
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Joey...I STILL want to pinstripe! I began by being a signmaker, I know, but that doesn't mean I can't learn to stripe, right?
I know you especially do not want to hear this one, but this is true, from my heart... "I will do whatever the Good Lord leads me & enables me to do."
I happen to like gilding a heck of alot too, & would LOVE to learn to glass gild! Maybe someday I will be so busy glass gilding & striping that I will no longer do regular signage! Who knows?
I never "ran" toward being a sign person in the first place, I was "LED" (by you-know-Who) there, after I decided I was too tired of wasting my life on drugs & partying. (no offense to you pot smokers, either. to each his own) I found I love making signs, too! But, after seeing other things while being on this site, & going to a couple of meets, I feel a desire to do some of those other things.
I would LOVE to go to a pinstriper's meet! Yes! But one thing at a time. And that Kustom Kulture website is pretty neat, too! Uh-oh...don't look too close on there, some nut tried to combine her lettering skills & made a corny sign with stripes on it! Don't mix at all!
Lol! I'm just teasing you! (but really, I did see a sign like that on that site!)
Can I still learn to stripe?
Posted by Dusty Campbell (Member # 4601) on :
Rollerblades? That'd be a refreshing change from my usual lump of coal.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
of course you can Bobbie, I've helped you in some ways, haven't I?
For the others I ask, why must everything be taken out of text? Is it because of your Icons, Hero's and such or is it because you can't put reality into my perspective and it interferes with what you have learned from them.
From my view and perspective, I want perfection in my work and I get it, but it all relates to pinstriping and adorning vehicles and when I see persons who use colors they shouldn't and designs which haven't any heart and lines that have faded in three years I wonder what the heck was so important to them that they haven't learned simple proper procedures this art has offered them over the years.
Granted, you can pinstripe and make money but it doesn't necessarily mean it goes with signage although gilding does and yes there are quite a few who take this to a higher level but not all who pursue it do.
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
simmer down Joey, I for 1 think that it can be done, although you might argue wether or not I am a "pinstriper" because I can not pull a straight line more that 3' but none the less I do market meself as a "pinstriper" and DO get paid for it. i also just so happen to own a commecial sign shop where the mojority of the day is spent weeding vinyl and sticking it on stuff, even some cheesy clipart on occasion. So it may not be a harmonious coexistence, but i make it work. I even have been known to upsell some truck lettering customerswith some 'do-dads' on the hood and tailgate. So this pinhead meet in Long Island... you going? I might have to come down and teach you a few new trick, old dog.
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Yes, you HAVE helped me Joey, & I thank you a bunch for that!
Hey, don't get your "undies in a bunch!", when other stripers don't do it as well as you do, & their work fails, the customers know where to get it done right, right?
Dusty, you know, with that cute little hat turned around backwards on that smilie face in your picture, you probably would look right at home on some rollerblades!
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Hand lettering and pinstriping go hand and hand. Sure, there are a lot of stripers that don't/won't letter and there are a lot more sign painters that don't/won't stripe, but there are a lot out there that do both. I won't name drop, but some of the most respected sign guys out there are also dynamite stripers. There's also a lot of guys/gals that do it all. Custom painting/airbrushing/signs/striping. I started out doing signs in the early seventies. I picked up striping a few years later and it's a good thing I did. The market for painted signs has shrunk considerably! I have a plotter. It sits idle for months on end. I simply don't like doing vinyl signs! Not only is it boring, ungratifying and absolutely no fun, I find it damn near impossible to make decent money with it. These days the bulk of our work is painted striping. We paint pinstripes. I really don't care what the hell anybody calls us as long as they call! We use Finesse tape for 95% of our straight lines. Some folks do it completely freehand, some use a magnetic guide and some use a Beugler wheel. When it all comes down to it, firewood is firewood regardless if you used a hand saw, an axe or a chainsaw
For anybody considering why they should learn striping let me toss this one out there....our material bill is less than 4% of our gross sales!
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
Amen George! I paint pinstripes too.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
well said George and vinyl does suck
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
Hey Joey, wassup with the cry-baby IM? I never said you didn't know what you were doing or weren't the best damn pinstriper in the U.S. You could be for all I know. Never doubted your expertise, knowledge, capabilities or experience. Also never implied I was smarter than you...
What IS obvious and comes out in every post is your condescending attitude toward anyone who is not exclusively (for the millionth time) a "STRAIGHT-LINE PINSTRIPER." If I listened to you, I'd think God did pinstriping for a living, and you taught him.
I have no problem with you, and enjoy your posts... I read some of them just for the extreme English language twisting. I also enjoy your passion for your craft. But since you don't have any hesitation to tell it like it is in IM's and messages, you won't have any problem with this post...
Have a nice evening, hope tomorrow is better and I would love to watch you pull lines if you make a surprise appearance at the Dixie meet..
BTW- I also visit your website occasionally and admire your work. However, I am a newbie and have a question about the main picture... is that a 1/4" roll of masking tape or a vinyl pinstripe?
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Jon, ya mean the IM that I sent to everyone saying I was just a 7-11 stock boy and not really a striper?
And I have no problems with God either, God loves me God loves ornery old men, God keeps ornery persons like myself around to keep other persons on their toes Posted by William Holohan (Member # 2514) on :
Joey, You are an inigma to me. You have unquestioned talent, experience, and hard earned knowledge. You share it freely. Yet you insist on insulting and demeaning the very people that Steve and Barb do, in fact run this site for. Your contemporaries, colleagues, brothers and sisters of the brush. Why do you insist on saying things that must hurt some of those reading your high and mighty, eletist comments. They only annoy me. I am niether a signwriter or pinstriper. I'm a sign groupie for lack of a better definition. I am also a human being, and recognise un-called for nastiness for nastiness' sake when I see it printed or hear it spoken. You are nasty for no other reason than liking to be nasty. Don't cover it up with that BS about it being a rant.
[ September 29, 2006, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: William Holohan ]
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
Joey,talk to your dandelions and put a plotter in your garage...trust me on this one.
Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on :
I offer my appology to all concerned. I should have re-phrased my my post to read: Who wants to become a professional Pin Striper?"
There are many aspects to the answer. Most of all it will mean at least a few years of disipline and disapointment at least. Unless you are a fast learner and see things as abstract in view.
Originally everyone who came to the post has legitimate motives. So can I get a witness? (chuckle)
I personally do not do a lot of pin stripe work as a living but use it a lot in the abstact fine art that I create. I have had my day and thus I sucumb to the new cats that can carry the load. Hitherto: I do have many years of knowledge that is being documented and archived. Including what I know about many paint tricks.
I leave you with that!
CrazyJack...I have proof!
Posted by Kristie Byrnes (Member # 3510) on :
I have to agree with George. All my work is in paint. Primarily pinstriping, auto art, and lettering, with an occasional sign. I've never done any vinyl, and have no idea what everyone means by "weeding" etc. All of my work is out of my head, and any stencils I might use I make myself. Unless, of course, I'm given a design or logo to use. I think that if you really want to learn to stripe, you just do all you can to learn how....like reading, observing, talking to stripers, and practice, practice, practice. Like in my spare time, I make display panels for my customers who come to my shop to see, because I suck at photography, and also to experiment with colors on backgrounds, etc. And as with anything else, you never quit learning. .....Kristie
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I began by being a signmaker, I know, but that doesn't mean I can't learn to stripe, right?