There are things I hear repeated over and over in this business that don't make sense to me. Kind of like old wives tales. When I read them I end up wondering who actually had the experience, and what the actual problem was. Anybody else think of any "old signmaker tales"?
Don't letter a newly painted vehicle for at least a month after it's been painted. --If this is a rule then how come factory applied graphics get stuck on hours after the paint is applied and those never want to come off.
You've got to remove the cover off sheets of acrylic for a couple of days before you letter them because they have to outgas. --If outgassing is such an issue then why doesn't the protective cover ever have bubbles under it?
Banners have to be rolled with the vinyl on the outside or it will tunnel and fall off the banner. --We average about 600 banners a year. I've been here 14 years. In all that time, through all those banners I've NEVER had one come back with tunnelled vinyl on it. We roll everything with the graphics on the inside. I've got banners that I've been relettering once a year for church picnics that are 8 or 9 years old now.
Vinyl can only be applied when it's bright and sunny and happy outside. --I've lettered stuff in the rain, lettered black metal trailers in the middle of summer, and lettered vans when the weather was dang close to freezing (okay, so it rarely gets below freezing in Alabama.) The vans I lettered when it was that cold were among the hardest to remove graphics I've ever done. They lasted 4 1/2 years before he wanted to trade the vans in and had to bring them to us because the graphics wouldn't come off.
Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
Im impressed I aint heard them before. of course I dont listen very well either so...............
Posted by Jon Jantz (Member # 6137) on :
Patrick, I've heard all those, and wondered about them too.
Had a guy that used to work for me that had worked in a sign shop in LA and had some of those rules ingrained in him. He'd roll banners letters out, I'd roll them letters in. I would have him put finished banners back into the original wrapping and after having a poorly sqeegeed letter or two stick to the insides of those bags while trying to slide it in, he started rolling them my way. (hmm.. that sounds like the P0Thead forum instead of Letterhead.)
Here's a couple more:
Always lap vinyl so the upper layer is on top, so the water can't sit on the lap and peel the vinyl.
What's the difference between a lap and a multi-layered design with a edge exposed to the top? Never had trouble with either one, due to water getting behind the vinyl.
A variation: if putting vertical laps on a vehicle, always lap it so the lap is facing the back, so the wind can't pull up the vinyl.
Again, how is a lap different than the rest of the vinyl with edges exposed to the front? I've Lettered Nascar All-pro cars that pushed 200 mph at Kentucky Motor Speedway, and never had a number or graphic blow off.
I say lap it whichever way makes it show up the least, especially if you use cast vinyls.
[ August 02, 2006, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Jon Jantz ]
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
(Don't letter a newly painted vehicle for at least a month after it's been painted.)
Yup! You void the painters warranty!
(You've got to remove the cover off sheets of acrylic for a couple of days before you letter them because they have to outgas.)
Thats Lexan not Acrylic!
(Banners have to be rolled with the vinyl on the outside or it will tunnel and fall off the banner.)
You never had one come back because the customer got pi$$ off and never came back! Just tell them to fold it into eight and store next to a heater.
(Vinyl can only be applied when it's bright and sunny and happy outside.)
Thats a smart graphic artist! Who wants to stand in the freezing cold trying to apply vinyl to a vehicle or window?
LOL
Posted by Tracie Johnson (Member # 6117) on :
Don't letter a newly painted vehicle for at least a month after it's been painted.
Isn't the factory finish baked on? That would make the difference from a repainted vehicle. Wouldn't it?
Banners have to be rolled with the vinyl on the outside or it will tunnel and fall off the banner.
Yes, this one I have had personal experience with. When a customer brings back a banner for a date change, or something of the sort, and the banner has been rolled inside out, I don't know what "tunneling" is exactly, but it does separate in kind of long vertical pockets. This is with calendared film; maybe if you use 2 mil it wouldn't be a problem.
[ August 02, 2006, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Tracie Johnson ]
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
Old Wives Sign Shop Tales?
If you break a piece of polycarbonate you will have bad luck for 7 years.
If you drop a piece of black coroplast you will have bad luck (undetermined amount of time but it is generally considered a short one).
If you use Avery vinyl you will have to re-do everything you put it on.
Rapid Tac will actually make vinyl stick to air or water if it's properly applied using small overlapping strokes with a 3M PA1 gold squeegie.
If a client forgets to bring his checkbook it means that you are screwed.
If your left ear itches it means that someone is speaking ill of your sign work.
If your right eye twitches it means that you will soon have a new plotter.
If the palm of your right hand itches it means that a deadbeat will soon be in to pay his bill.
It is bad luck to walk under a ladder that has an open can of paint on it.
A Kolinsky squirell hair brush brings good financial luck to it's owner, especially if is dipped regularly into One Shot Lettering Enamel.
Dropping an Exacto knife while wearing sneakers can mean a sore foot or toe.
Laying an injet printer on a white carpet is bad luck.
Eating a PB&J sandwich, sitting nekkid in a beanbag watching Robert Tilton on TV... oh God, that's just plain sick!
[ August 02, 2006, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Ricky Jackson ]
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ricky Jackson: If you use Avery vinyl you will have to re-do everything you put it on.
Hehehehe, It's funny cause it's true (in my best Karen Walker voice).
Posted by Mark M. Kottwitz (Member # 1764) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ricky Jackson: Laying an injet printer on a white carpet is bad luck.
ONLY if the wife gets home before you can get out of the area, and if one of the kids was home to blame it on.
quote:Originally posted by Ricky Jackson: Eating a PB&J sandwich, sitting nekkid in a beanbag watching Robert Tilton on TV... oh God, that's just plain sick!
Great, thanks Ricky, I just shot Dr. Pepper out of my nose...Now I gotta clean my desk.
quote:Originally posted by Kissymatina:
quote:Originally posted by Ricky Jackson: If you use Avery vinyl you will have to re-do everything you put it on.
Hehehehe, It's funny cause it's true (in my best Karen Walker voice).
My fiancee got me interested in that show, Thanks Kissy, that was good.
Now here is mine:
When you plan on an early entry into the shop to "knock out" the vehicle that the customer "has" to have back by the end of the day, something will go wrong (ie. help not showing up, or not having quite enough vinly because of the "rush" job the night before.)
[ August 02, 2006, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Mark M. Kottwitz ]
Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
"Don't letter a newly painted vehicle for at least a month after it's been painted." I've done race cars that went from the spray booth to vinyl in hours without a problem, but I would always want to cover myself on a newly painted vehicle just because if there's any problem I'm the one that will get the blame, even if it was a crappy paint job's fault.
"You've got to remove the cover off sheets of acrylic for a couple of days before you letter them because they have to outgas." Never had a problem with acrylic or lexan. Vinyl "breathes" doesn't it?
"Banners have to be rolled with the vinyl on the outside or it will tunnel and fall off the banner." Never had an issue with this either, and we redo banners year after year and use both cast and cal vinyl on them. The only problems are if they fold instead of roll them
"Vinyl can only be applied when it's bright and sunny and happy outside." Never had an issue with this either, although cold and rain can make a difference. We almost always apply dry, maybe that's why.
[ August 03, 2006, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Bill Lynch ]
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Patrick, you don't have some of those problems cause you use Rapid Tac to guard against them (not to mention your outstanding abilities);
1- roll the banner anyway you want,if the vinyl(cast or calandered) was applied right to a CLEAN surfase (ask Pat)it won't come loose. Oh yeah, window cleaners, rubbin alcohol, paint solvents won't make it clean.
2-apply vinyl in any type weather (warmer then 15 degrees F.)with Rapid Tac or TacII, it WILL bond, especially cause you cleaned it with Rapid Tac or TacII. Ask Butch Anton about applying Prints in Minnasota in below Zero with TacII.
3- now cure times can vary, depending on type of paint, how it was mixed with reducer, was there hardner(catylst) used, weather cond., baked/unbaked,etc.
I like to smell the surfase then check with finger nail for hardness (sowewhere out of sight). If you can smell solvent fumes on the surfase, its still outgassing and WILL bubble under vinyl.
Most painters are using urethanes these days(two part/with hardner)and within a day or two they can usually be applied to.
Roger
Posted by jake snow (Member # 5889) on :
Never take a leak with wet paint on your hands
(man or woman) (thinner burns now matter what )
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Something similar Jake:
Never attempt to take out your contact lenses after making homemade salsa (ask me how I know)
Posted by jake snow (Member # 5889) on :
Ya that would really beauuuuurn too Rick.
(thats the reason I don't wear contacts...)
Posted by Jack Bass (Member # 6695) on :
Don't letter a newly painted vehicle for at least a month after it's been painted.
This is more for a safety stance for the sign shop. Safety??? How???? you ask... Customer comes in and wants a graphic on a car, you walk out and look at it and can smell the fresh paint. You tell them it has to cure for a month just to make sure the graphic won't harm it. They then argue with you that it has'nt been freshly painted and it's ok to graphic. You then inform them that since it's against your better judgement you will not be responsable for failer of the graphic or the paint just in case. "since the customer is allways right". You then continue to install the graphic, once you have one side complete the customer decides that they don't like that design and they want to change it to something else. You suggest to them to go with it after all, it looks good and matches the body lines and styling of the vehicle, but they don't want to hear it after all the customer is allways right. So.. what do you do... You grab one end of the freshly installed graphic and start pealing it of, and not only does the graphic come off, but so does the paint, straight down to the primer.
IN THIS INSTANCE THE SHOP OWNER WAS RIGHT, NOT THE CUSTOMER.
Posted by Brian Snyder (Member # 41) on :
I've always been told that the "baking" of a paint job is only good for getting the paint to dry more quickly and has nothing to do with the rate at which it cures. Makes sense to me. Any auto painting professionals here that can confirm or refute this?
[ August 02, 2006, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: Brian Snyder ]
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Brian..With 25 years of experience at painting vehicles.I COULD comment..but I will leave the final word to those more experienced!!!! LOL
If you would like my opinion..just e-mail me Posted by Tim Whitcher (Member # 685) on :
I informed a customer about how to roll his banner with the lettering on the out side of the roll..... he looked at me funny, and said, "It's a double sided banner!" I've never mentioned it to a customer again....
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