The last 3 or four National/International meets have really been off. Attendence has been rather poor and the sponsors have really taken a beating fincially.
No one has stepped foward to host next years or any thereafter.
Is this the end of the "Big" meets?
If so, what do you think happened?
What can or should be done to keep them alive.....or are they even necessary.
Joe,
Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
its probably because people lose their shirts hosting them. there's so much time involved you lose $ cause you're not working. who wants to step up to that plate? plus between wars and hurricanes...its been a tough few years for many. i'd rather host a small meet than a big meet...it's all my stress level can handle.
i think the moncton meet in 2007 will be as close to an international meet as any. it sure drew a big crowd in 04. what a blast!
Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
With the number of smaller meets happening I believe the Letterhead movement is alive and well... no worries there.
I've been to a number of letterhead meets, mostly regional or local ones with anywhere from 15 - 100 sign folks in attendance. I've been to three large meets... Banff, Cornwall and the last Mazeppa meet... I'm not sure if they were all considered "International" meets.
My favorite meets have been the smaller ones, with everyone in one place and a small enough crowd to be able to meet everyone and get to know many folks well.
Even the smaller meets have an international flavor with folks attending from far and wide.
Even though the picnic here at the ranch is still a little less than two weeks away I am beginning to fully understand (along with my crew) just what it takes to put even a small meet together.... and ours is a laid back one day event without sponsors, handouts, door prizes, T-shirts, entertainment and the like. I can only imagine the effort it takes to pull off a full blown extravaganza, never mind a true international event.
I've been to to many events where the hosts and their crew were so busy during the event they scarcely had time to breathe and didn't seem to be enjoying the gathering much.
Add in demonstrations, workshops, guest artists, murals and the thousand other things which sometimes go on during an event and it would be a HUGE task.
Just the same I am both proud and humbled that so many folks would take the time and spend the money to journey here from far and wide. We will be truly honored to have guests from British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario, Quebec, Newfoundland, Pennsylvania, Texas, Kansas, Washington, Australia, and perhaps even more...
The Picnic at the Ranch Letterhead Meet is the type of event which appeals to me the most and suits our style. I plan on having fun that day and I hope my crew does too. In the process I sincerely hope no one who makes the effort to come here goes away disappointed... but rather inspired to try new things creative having made some new friends.
-grampa dan
Posted by Kurt Gaber (Member # 256) on :
Joe,
I've only been to 4 of the international meets, the first of which was 1999 at Mazeppa. That one rocked and I'm not sure will ever be matched in my opinion. There was just something magical about that entire meet.
I went to Milwaukee in 2001 and I thought there was a decent turnout, and considering it was a PANEL JAM, it didn't have the outdoor flair and fresh air, but it was what it was... alot of pinstripers and panel jammers and vehicle graphics. Some of the very best stripers and lettermen were there... Bob Behounek, Alan Johnson, Tramp, Ken Millar, Mike Meyer, Dave Corell, I shouldn't have even started listing names... I don't want to slight anyone.
In 2002, I hosted my first meet and my world was spinning mighty quick for most of that summer, so I wasn't able to head out to Jill's meet in Mars, but it sounded like a great success, but I can't brag about it if I wasn't there.
In 2003, The Signcrafters Rendezvous in Tomahawk... I thought that was a fantastic meet. A mix of the big magazine all-stars and lots of new faces contributing to some beautiful outdoor murals, and a great auction to benefit the sign museum. Both indoor and outdoor work, informative seminars, good food and entertainment. I brought my daughter along and we stayed busy for days!
2004. I didn't go.
2005, back to Mazeppa. There was alot going on... projects, seminars, entertainment, food, monster trucks, huge projects like Rod Tickle's trailer lettering job. I was only there 2 days, but had a great time. Based on the photos and stories from the masquerade ball, it looks like I missed out on alot, but I had family committments. Mike put it all out there for us, and he can't guarantee utmost success... we have to make it happen.
2006. I didn't go.
I guess a meet is what you make of it. Unless I missed out on something fantastic in the previous international meets, I'd say I was very satisfied with the past several meets I have been to. I'm not posting this reply in a retaliatory mode Joe, just a matter of fact point of view from a guy who was able to travel to these very close midwestern meets. The international sponsor part, I wouldn't know enough about, because the first meet I had, was really based on local hometown sponsors and my local sign suppliers helping out, and a small amount of help from some larger sponsors, namely One-Shot for some paint.
I know the number of meets has really increased over the years, so vendors and sponsors alike may be a bit more selective in which meets they might support. Maybe just the number of meets may cause attendance to drop. Again, I can only compare to the big meets I'v been to over the last 5 years or so.
The 2008 international meet.... I'm not sure, but isn't that the Hudson Hullabaloo? I may be wrong, so don't quote me.
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
This really is the type of response that I hoped this thread will generate. It's not a contest....it's our own experience and perspactive. I've been lucky to get to many meets including 3 internationals. I always return in awe.
Sometimes I like to stop and just take a look around to evaluate things. I tend to go overboard with things and after awhile I have to pull back. That is probably what brought this question in focus.
I think we'll see more regional meets with a bunch of small ones thrown in between. This is probably a good way to get more folks to come out, when you add it all up.
I'd like to hear how others feel.
Thanks Karen, Dan and Kurt.
Joe,
Makin Chips and Havin Fun !
Posted by Duncan Wilkie (Member # 132) on :
I personally think a most people prefer the medium to small meets. With the proliferation of these small meets, the need to attend a large meet is diminished because of the convenience and intimacy of the small ones. The Letterhead movement involves folks talented in traditional skills and those eager and willing to learn from them. The very soul of the movement is personal interaction and mentorship between those willing to teach and those that want to learn. Large meets are great for raw beginners and those that would rather watch from the outside rather than dig right in the first time around. Although I started painting signs in 1970, and had been in the sign industry ever since, I was very intimidated at my first meet in Banff. It had been years since I'd picked up a brush, and I just couldn't do it. Seeing all the talented and friendly folks, however, inspired me to go home and get out my quills. The next meet, a small one at Pat Welter's in Unity was the one that opened my eyes to what the Letterhead movement is all about...participation and sharing. I haven't looked back since. The Moncton meet (Medium Size) was a magical time, maybe the perfect one. It had it all, "Big" names, sponsors, world class food and beautiful surroundings... but it still had that intimate down to earth quality that is so appealing. Good food and time to share a meal with someone is obviously important and I doubt anyone will top the work in the ktchen of the Tardif crew at that meet.
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
I have only been to 3 meets, Jill's in Mars, Jill's last summer, & the Zoo. I am not abig shop, so it is hard for me to afford to go, but I sure hope we can go to the Circus one this year!
Maybe because there are so many to choose from now, that is why the attendance is lower at the big ones?
Sorry I did not get to talk to you at the Zoo, Joe, I was jumping from one seminar to another, then back to my panel!
Posted by BOB HINES (Member # 2702) on :
I had to go sailing in Shediac Bay on a 38 footer (not mine) and gave Brian a call in Irishtown.He was to come to Shediac on Fri. but we got hit with a tornado warning,one hour before race time & he didn't make it.We came second in a 62 mile night race to Charolettown.Yeah I still love sailing. In 04 we did our best to do it right with all fingers crossed. Again the Letterhead spirit came through. All who were asked to lead projects did so in their normal 110% manner.If you think of all that goes into these meets & then go to PAST MEETS you will see that there was time for the hosts to enjoy a little fun. Brian & I are putting our heads together again for next year & see if we can maintain the standards set by other hosts. Please reserve our dates. We loved doing it. As always, Bob
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
There was a time when all of the early meets were small. Then came the bigger international ones, later the regionals and a ton of smaller ones. The big meets are just that , BIG!!! A lot of people, a lot of things going on like seminars, demonstrations, dances and even golf tournements. They are in one word, overwhelming. It's impossible to take it all in. The smaller ones are way more people oriented and that's the main reason I prefer them to the larger events.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Bob..You probaly don't remember me, I tried to keep a low profile at the meet in 2004!!!
THAT meet was one of a kind in my humble opinion. The venue was perfect and the amount of planning and work that went into it paid off big time for all attendees. If you and Brian can set up another one next year, I'll be there..with my "handler" Shirl..
The other memorable meet for me was Jimmy Chatham's in Georgia..it was smaller but it was a great experience.
But then there was Jack Jordan's and Bruce Bower's and Jill's..HECK they were ALL great experiences.
"Letterheads on Main Street" was the only "international" meet I have attended, and although it was good, it doesn't hold the memories that the various "local" and "regional" meets do.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
The only international I've been to was Jills. It was a good meet, but I just don't like large groups of people like that. 3 years later, I'll be talking to Jill & someone's name will come up. She'll tell me "they were at Mars, did you meet them?" No, there were too many people for me to meet there!
I like the smaller ones where by time it's over, you at least know everyone if not by name then by "the one with the paint kit that..." or "he was doing the ______ panel." Seems like there is less pressure and anxiety associated with the smaller meets.
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
...The Lhead movement is being seriously undercut and "watered down" by too many smalll gatherings. It's a real shame now that hosts of the larger meets are being undercut by "upstarts" scheduleing their meets too close to the same time. As a recent example, the CINCINNATI meet had been planned for over two years, when the LODI host announced that theirs, was being held ONE MONTH before Cinci. WHY would any potential host want to have a big meet, when many potential attendees will only be drawn away by small ones that pop up at the "last minute"?
...Rather than (go to the trouble of) traveling to a larger, more organized and long-time pre-scheduled meet, it seems like too many newbe "hosts" (now days) will just throw their own little party, in their own little town. Too many of these small meet hosts have very little experience attending meets, and (regretably) know very little about how to have one. I have been to some (and too many) dinky meets held by inexperienced hosts, where everything is "winged" and poorly planned, if planned at all.
...There was a time when the big, "international" gatherings were more anticipated, honored and attended. In the past, small meet hosts showed their respect by planning their meets to avoid conflicts with other hosts.
...I have been attending Letterhead meets for over 23 years, and I'm not trying to pi$$ any small meet hosts or newbes off here, just inform and perhaps enlighten the greater mass of newer Lheads. Thanks.
Posted by Sam Radoff (Member # 4972) on :
the art show in DETROIT this year had over 150 artists more than 1/2 of them were letterheads .
mar 9-10-11-07 detroit
contact yosemite@execulink.com 1-519-652-6956
Posted by Sam Radoff (Member # 4972) on :
the art show in DETROIT this year had over 150 artists more than 1/2 of them were letterheads .
mar 9-10-11-07 detroit
contact yosemite@execulink.com 1-519-652-6956
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
I co-hosted the '91 international meet where we had about 450. I swore I'd never do an international again. Not only can you lose your shirt, but the hours are enormous and the rewards are few. An international meet every 5 years would be good, and maybe absence will make the heart grow fonder of them.
I enjoy small meets where you can get around a few times and meet everyone. It's nice to have seminars and products available like at large meets, but I'd rather get around and visit.
I think the small meets and the walldog meets have grown in popularity, because they're more personal. Making lasting friends like we have are more a result of small meets.
Bonding is more important to me than going around to scheduled seminars and sitting in the back trying to get a good view. I didn't like sitting in class in school and I like it less now. If I want to pick somebody's brain, I like to get with them for a one on one exchange. If I'm made to feel like I'm bothering them I'll go somewhere else.
I feel sorry for the vendors as of late, because I think it's something they're made to feel like they should do, but I don't think they get much out of it financially.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
I planned to goto the cinci meet. When I called for tickets they had a family rate @ $300 for husband and wife. I am sure it was a bagrain for that type of team. However, I planned on going with my younger boy. But alas no kids rates. I didn't know for sure,,if kids were welcome or not and paying adult rate for a kid was more than I could tackle especially with out more info.
So, are kids welcome to these meets? yes or no. IF so, are there projects specifically set up for the kids to tackle? And will they be timed long enough for them to spend more than a few minutes?
If they are not then something is missing. If they are then could it be helpful to inform such.
And then, when looking for an agenda all I could find was the flyer page on another site. Not much to go on when trying to make a decision.
Is the above info helpfull for the next one?
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
As long as Letterheads remain a non-organization with no leaders or structure, we're going to run into scheduling conflicts and, perhaps, poor attendance at some events. But, that's no reason to stop having them. Another problem is that these events are hosted and run by sign makers and artist, not event planners or meeting organizers. So, we have a tendency to be a little narrow minded or too focused with what we want to achieve or expect from these events, and this could be a double edge sword. While there may be specific things included or excluded (link vinyl) from a meet to improve attendance, I'm sure the organizers don't intentionally discriminate against families with children or significant others who don't participate. Simply put, if you try to accommodate and keep everyone happy, you’ll end up pleasing nobody. I’ve hosted a small gathering and attended several meets. While it is a unique experience, hosting a larger or international meet is not something I would want to take on without a lot of help. And yes, I would expect to loose money.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
I went to the Lodi meet and loved it. That meet was also planned years in advance. Tony Segale did a great job of coordination, and it was a smashing success.
So far I have been to 3 small west coast meets, and they have each been excellent.
Posted by Miles Cullinane (Member # 980) on :
I have been to 5 meets, First Irish meet in Dublin, two local in Cork, Stockport and Jacksonville Walldog meet.
I can't imagine ever wanting to attend an international meet like the one Bill described. 450 people, wow!
The smaller meets have the attraction of getting to know people and a walldog meet can mean a lot of interaction with a local community.
What is the purpose of an international meet? If that can be answered, then you'll know if they should continue.
my two cents worth
Posted by Denis de Leon (Member # 5844) on :
I'm kinda new to Letterville running on about 6 months so I can't say I've noticed any drop off in attendance. I can say that I've been to Mass Mayhem, had a great time and learned a lot.
I'm a small shop so my ability to attend meets would more than likely be kept to the local or close to local meets.
Posted by Sarah May (Member # 4849) on :
To reply to Mr. Pickett's comments: As a newbie letterhead I appreciate the smaller meets more because I get more one on one experience with all of you older wiser folk. The experience and friendship that we have received is overwhelming. I also just want to clear the water a bit as well. Adam and I with the help of our great friend and mentor Mike Meyer have held 2 walldog meets in the last 3 years. We have only been officially letterheads for 3 years but in our hearts we have been letterheads all of our meger 28 years of life. Our last meet (Jacksonville) yes landed the weekend following the International meet. We planned our meet for 1 and half years (almost 2)beforehand. We planned to announce our meet during the Mazeppa Meet last year to only be informed when we got there that the International meet was on the exact same dates we had established for ours so to not offend anyone we had to change our dates. Now our meet was being financed by the Main Street Organization and picking the dates involved not only us but them. The only other set of dates they could do was the following weekend after the International. They couldn't wait the next year because a majority of their money was from grants that had to be used this year. No lack of planning here just unfortunate that the dates landed where they did. And as far as being "dinky" or "winged" you can ask anyone who attended and they would tell you otherwise. I also know for fact that Tony Segale also planned for 2 years for Lodi and was also financed by the city. I highly suggest researching your meets before you speak next time. And at our small meets we did what we were suppose to do...passed on the craft and had fun too! We both agree with Bill the International meets are so large that having them every 3-5 years would be best (fondness of the heart plus more time to find financing and to plan it). Of course there is always going to be no guarantee on the attendance numbers. But if you market it right, over a longer time period, I bet more people would put it on their calendars.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Well said Sarah!!! Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
I agree with the fact the Lodi meet was planned a long time ago. I was first asked to participate on a mural there in late 2004. That seems plenty long enough for me! I know I knew about Lodi long before I heard of the National in Cincinnati.
I've attended a few middle sized meets recently (100), but have to say that Lodi was by far the most planned, organized and executed meet I have ever attended. I commend Tony on all the work he did to pull it off and am extremely grateful to him for his help with planning our Moose Jaw 2007 meet. We picked and posted a date early as we wanted to make sure we were not stepping on any toes.
Posted by Jason Davie (Member # 2172) on :
As to MR. Pickett
Thanks for the enlightenment.. but regardless of a small meet or a large meet.. and if there is one close to me that is the one I'm going to. I'm not sure who's meets you are refering to as throw together but why don't you host one and see if you can do any better. The only thing that you seem capable of doing is belittling people. i have yet to see one post of yours that shows the letterhead spirit. So to show the letterhead spirit check your ego at the door.
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
I don't know if this can be done......but I'll try.
I asked for opinions about what the future holds for "Internationa/National" meets. Lots of folks have opinions and I was just kinda hoping that we could just hear those opinions and just sorta leave them there and offer our own idea in the next post.
I think it would be kool if we didn't get into the "defend/attack" mode. I think you know what I mean.
I think I like that idea about having a big one every 2 or 3 years. That seems to be my pattern anyway
Be Kool!!!
Joe,
Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
I am one of those no talent half azz hosts that has been throwing together a small to mid sized meet for the past 6 years, in that time Mass Mayhem has had attendance between 25 and 125, last year we had about 35 people come from all over new England, New Jersy and New York but none from Virgina. Even though most of my time at our meets I am running around "winging it" I still have time to meet fellow letterheads, share stories, tips, and get into a panel jam or 2 at the end, we say good bye to old friends, new friends and look forward to seeing next year or at the next thrown tgether 'dinky' local meet. As for National meets I have yet to attend a 'big' meet but in 2003 we had over 120 people at our little unorganized non-corporate event, not bad for a bunch of ameteurs? Maybe next year we will get it right? Mass Mayhem 7, Tewksbury Ma, May 2007....see ya there?
Posted by Jason Davie (Member # 2172) on :
Capt. .. If I can get a PB&J Ill definatly make it to the next one..
Jason D
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
too bad you missed last year jason, we had Bobby Flay serve a 7 course meal, next year I am making PB&J for everyone!
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
... I have never met JASON and I did not mean to "belittle" him or anyone w. my comments here. I am sorry that he has any animosity and would get defensive and attack me for writing a valid perspective that he didn't like reading.
...As far as letterhead spirit and EGO goes, How is yours? This thread is about what people think about big meets. While everything I wrote is true, I sinerely regret that anything I wrote offended JD or anybody.
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
Bill I think some people looked at your post as bashing anyone who hosts a smaller meet, making it sound like anyone hosting a small meet is unoganized, and lacks talent.... " it seems like too many newbe "hosts" (now days) will just throw their own little party, in their own little town. Too many of these small meet hosts have very little experience attending meets, and (regretably) know very little about how to have one. I have been to some (and too many) dinky meets held by inexperienced hosts, where everything is "winged" and poorly planned, if planned at all. "
that offends ME because at 36 years old I have now hosted or co-hosted 6 Mass Mayhem meets, and you have not attended any of them so who are you to judge? I don't know. maybe a guy with only 15 years in the business has no seniority to host a meet? I think planning and sponsorship is over-rated, our meet is more of a party, invite 100 of your closest friends. Maybe your right, we don't have a bunch of "who's who's" giving lectures or seminars, but if you keep your eyes open, you might just catch, Bill Ridel doing one of his famous portaits, or Alan Johnson taping off and painting a flame job, or Joe Ceislowski, hand carving a sign, you might see Mike Z doing some faux finishes, or Bruce Deveau doing his magic with gold leaf, or Karen Sousa doing her amazing blended shade techinque you might even meet some younger pinstripers like myself and JayZee, stepping away from typical symetrical stripe designs... we may not have big banners hanging up from Signcraft or Signs of the Times, but the place is always overflowing with Letterhead spirit.
[ July 18, 2006, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: captain ken ]
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
I have attended two "International" Meets, the Tomahawk meet up in northern Wisconsin, and last years "Mother of All Meets" down in Mazeppa. I met some great people at both meets and have life-long memories from both. I was very glad that I made it to both of them and look forward to my next one. I saw from the fringes just a glimpse of how much work goes into a large meet such as these. The only negative thing about the very large meets is that it is hard to get around and meet all the people in attendance. I too think that one every other year would probably be enough...but then again, can there be too many meets....I don't think so.
I have also attended several regional and smaller meets. The first Brush Bash, Aledo, Lincoln, The Winter Muster, the Hogtown Panel Jam, and more recently Lodi, Jacksonville. I really enjoyed all of these meets. I felt that Lodi was one of the best organized and fun meets I have attended. The projects were over the top which matched the talent that showed up there to work on them....it was a blast. Both the Lincoln and Jacksonville meets were well run meets and also a lot of fun. I have never seen any greater community involvement than I did in jacksonville this year. I applaud Sarah and Adam for putting on a great couple of meets....thank you!!. And my hat is off to Tony Segale for a great "West of the Rockies" Walldog event.
So, I think each meet is as good as you want it to be. I try to check my ego at the gate and see what I can give to the meet and not what the meet can give to me. I try to meet as many people as I can but I usually tend to get lost in a project somewhere.
I hope I will one day have the opportunty to host a Walldog event in New England once I get established there. I am look forward to attending my first Mass Mayhem gathering.....See you soon Captain Ken!
Take care be well, and if you haven't been to a live meet, get to one soon and decide for yourself how important they are!
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Ken, for what it's worth, your meets sound exactly like the ones I like the most. Who knows, maybe one day we'll make it up there for one.
Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
Mr Picket
When I read through your post... and I did a number of times I kinda took offence. But I'm getting over it.
You are certainly welcome to come up here and have a little fun at our hastily organized but loosely run little picnic.
For me a Letterhead meet is about having a little fun, slinging a little paint, exploring some new techniques, learning some new stuff, passing on some skills, meeting friends new and old, and perhaps giving a little encouragement and inspiration to fellow letterheads.
While I have more than three decades in the sign business, I am a newby at hosting a meet. I'm about to get some first hand experience. Hopefully we can show a good and memorable time to those who journey here.
-grampa dan
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
ok, I am over it now too! your welcome at Mass Mayhem anytime too!
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
I heve been to two well organized small meets: Looney in 2004 and Jill's in 2005. I cannot imagine attending a meet that is 10 times bigger than those. I personally learned many things from Letterheads with much more knowledge than me. More than anything, they taught me not to be afraid of something new.
I personally was not offended by WR's comments, but, if I were one who took the time & money to organze a smaller meet, I probably would have been offended.
[ July 18, 2006, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by Stefanie Fox (Member # 6523) on :
I am still a newby in Letterville, but a fairly seasoned sign artist of 22yrs. I am very excited to attend our first meet in October: Dixie Letterheads Circus. We would also like to work it out so we can fit in a Walldog meet next year as well as crash the party in MA next May by that "no talent half-azz strawberry jelly eatin' host"
Captain Ken posted July 17, 2006 10:43 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am one of those no talent half azz hosts -------------------------------------------------
I am just guessing...that the smaller to mid-sized meets would be more appealing to me, personally. I would relish (not necessarily a condiment pun) the opportunity to meet many of you and learn as much as I can. If I am able to offer any insight, I would like to do that too.
Posted by Sonny Franks (Member # 588) on :
Although this will be my first time hosting a meet, Bob and I have actually been planning it since we attended our first one 20 years ago.
I've gotten several comments about continuing the spontaneity and loose structure that's become a tradition with the Dixie Meets and that's what you'll get. The only promise we're making is that we'll feed you good - the rest is up to you. I think it's important to have meets of all sizes and in all locations so more people will be able to attend. The "International" part is just semantics.
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Who knows, maybe one day we'll make it up there for one.
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