Little old lady. Loves choclate brown Curtis cove refers to her personal gazebo, and one acre.
I am comissioned to do the sign only, they are going to build posts and install.
sign board is 3 x 6 feet
needs to be done for $500.00 or less???
I am scared to post it so I keep typing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted by Kelsey Dum (Member # 6101) on :
Very nice, Blake, especially for the price! First thing that bugs me is the "1938" looks like it is floating. Maybe a couple of small scrolls on the sides, or push it up and put a thin one underneath. Also, maybe less peach colored and more of a yellowish/white kind of tan...does that make sense?
How about adding a shadow to that tree as well...
Looks good!!! Keep up the enthusiasm!
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
I'm thinking all vinyl on Dibond or similar with some stingers to mount it to the posts. Size would be about 3' x 3'...
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Jim Moser (Member # 6526) on :
I like the layout and letter style! Look at the amount of negative space between the letters...the RTIS needs more space. You could pull the two words a little closer together too as the C is much larger than the S. Maybe try a shadow color that is just a little darker and the same hue as the background rather than the black....might make it read a little better....
Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
Blake! I hope I'm not giving you a complex! I was thinking chocolate for the panel not the lettering. You can never have enough chocolate. These are Atkinson alphabets, no time to do anything fancy today. Try what you have with a chocolate background and cream lettering, and do tighten up your elements. love....Jill Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
Blake, I really like it. I think the simple oval works. When you have a fancy font like that, less is more. I think if you tighten up the kerning on "tis" and perhaps try moving the main copy down about a third to half of the height of the small letters and bring the tree down a tad too, just to pull the elements together so they relate more and reduce the negative space between the main copy and the date. You may be able to get away with stretching the font vertically just a bit. Duplicte what you have there and play with the copy along side the original until you like it. That is the joy of computers. It isn't uncommon for me to have 4 or five copies tweaked. I find it very useful to do something else and come back to them periodically. It gives your head a chance to refresh the images. Other than that I wouldn't change it a bit. It's got loads of class.
Posted by Jim Moser (Member # 6526) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kelly Thorson: I think if you tighten up the kerning on "tis".
Did you mean open up the kerning ?
Posted by Blake Koehn (Member # 5984) on :
A few tweaks
Posted by Stevo Chartrand (Member # 2094) on :
Better. But still find it very difficult to read what it says. Kerning out the lettering as suggested will work a little bit. I'd like to see the lettering ivory with a darker brown outline, like Jill mentioned, with no drop shadow. It's looking cluttered with the inline and shadow on it. The rule (line) going through the lettering isn't helping here and making things look too tight.
But it's getting there!
Stevo
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I agree with Stevo on the "rule line."
try lowering the rule line down so it "just clips" the bottom descender of the "r" in the word "Curtis."
If you're going to use the rule line...ya need more space between it and the words in this instance.
Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
Id reverse the color arrangement, something to the effect that Stevo mentioned. Signs read alot better with dark backgrounds and lighter type. Id also put the 1938 on a small panel right where it is. A square one, oval, etc. Layout looks good, just the colors need tweaking.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
This isn't going to be a $500 dollar sign....but I had some fun working with it anyway...maybe you'll get some ideas here....
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
Yes I meant widen Jim, thanks for pointing that out. I'd use the other R in that font. It is a little simpler....I might even be tempted to simplify it some more. I also agree with Jim on the softening of the shadow or perhaps even eliminating it. Remember that we all have different tastes. I, personally think you have a very good start there. To tell you the truth it is my favourite layout of the ones on this post, so I say stick to your guns guy. Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Different tastes aside...I think the font you have chosen doesn't work well Blake. Here's my reasoning for that:
Using all caps with a heavily serifed font...in combination with swirly doodad serifs - and then giving it tight kerning is a design mistake and visually troublesome. Outling a decorative, swirly font like that only adds to it's visual difficulties.
It's almost presents the same problems as using Old English or a script font in all caps....it's just too confusing.
I'm assuming that for the price stated, this sign won't be dimensional.
And if that's the case...you can still give her a lot of look with paint or vinyl.
Give it a little more umph. There are a lot o good ideas posted here. Pick them out of the various posts and try and re-design this in so that the elements relate better to one-another, there is more road appeal (add a little more jazz - such as the suggestions to add some kind of coordinating scroll elements and/or another border to house the numerals)and sincerely consider changing the font.
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
Blake, I like your "improved" layout. What software are you using, by the way? My main concern with this concept, and Todd's also, is how do you mount this oval to the posts? As pictured, both offer basically no means of support for the sign panel.
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
Here is my take on your vision Blake. I'd still open up the kerning on the date and play with the main copy a little more, but you'll get the idea. Sorry I don't do pink
The fact that this is for an elderly lady's gazebo makes me think that the readability isn't much of a concern as far as traffic or wayfinding. It is more a decoration for her yard. Had it been a highway billboard or something, I'd consider the font too ornate. I'm not challenging the others, some of whom obviously excell in the design game, but sometimes I think these makeovers tend to discount the potential of an idea. Rather than showing how to improve the actual design it becomes a showcase for new ideas. This isn't meant as a critisism of those who take the time to show what they think would work, because it is definitly both fun and inspirational to see the ideas. I just liked the direction you were going for this particular situation. In my eyes, your design best fit the intended situation. Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Thanks for saying what I was going to say too, Kelly & Todd! Good start Blake, but you still need to study Mike Stevens' book on layout & negative space & kerning, and ensure the signs pass "the squint test". After that, you can think about embellishments to enhance the design, but not before then! (Nice fix, Kelly!)
edited to add P.S. Blake, what's that font called? edited a second time to correct the spelling of "add" above- and to wonder why the S is so close to the D on the keyboard! (thanks, Doug!)
[ July 03, 2006, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Ian Stewart-Koster ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Ok...if you don't want to deviate too far from your original Blake....here's my suggestion - building on Kelly's:
1.) Kelly did a great job with the legibility of your original text - opened up the kerning, simplified outline.
2.) I'd go one step further with the text - ditch the rule line through the big loops of your "C's" (that rule line as it is really is a negative on the design in my opinion)
3.) Drop the rule line - it's crowding the letters.
4.) Reduce the numerals - still way too huge - competes with the Curtis Cove.
5.) Add some kind of plaque-y outline to the numerals to help anchor the design - everything seems like a "floater" to me.
6.) Spice up the trees a bit - this is a real visual interest area, why not pull the viewer in with it?
7.) I also added a little additional elemental twist to the bottom inside of the loopy "C's" to bolster up that negative space a bit....
And per Ian......what IS that font?
Here's my take on just tweaking your existing design:
Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
...when I post suggestions it is sometimes because I have no idea what the font was, or don't have the font, etc. just easier to type in something different than try to copy/paste/trace.
I do like Todd's suggestion of coloring in the tree (easy as pie with sponges) and the sunsetty-thing behind it (an easy wet blend with Foamies)
I would put it in an oval panel echoing the sign shape and still reverse the sign colors to a chocolate background with cream letters.
I's simply make the number in a sans-serif, not frame around it, and make it smaller if it is the "established" year. If it's a street addy keep it the size it is.
Love....Jill
Posted by Robert Cole (Member # 477) on :
Could someone explain to me why I cannot view Blakes illustrations?
Every post that Blake has his illustrations will not load on my screen. The other posters illustrations show up just fine. I have posed this question on another post of Blakes, but no one has answered my question. I have tried to go to Blakes web page, and it will not load either. I am using Firefox on a dedicated DSL line. I have also used Safari on a DSL line, and no luck. How are the rest of you viewing these illustrations?
regards. Bob Cole
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Bob - it's showing up fine for me....What web browser are you using?
You can see the rest of our samples, but not Blake's?
That is strange.....hmmmmmmm.
I'm using FireFox....
Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
Bob....we're psychic... (Just Kidding) love....Jill
Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
Blake, heres what me and Jill are talking about with the colors being switched around. Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
Bingo! Nice treatment of the rule as well, Tater. Mmmm...now maybe sponge in a few autumn tones in that tree... love....Jill
Posted by Bill Jarvis (Member # 1754) on :
I don't want to hijack this thread but Todd I REALLY want to know how you are adding so much dimension to your layouts. I'd love to know how you applied that beveled edge look in the layout.
Oh! and as for this sign I think the color combo's in Deatons last example are spot on. The first thing you see is the name then my eyes just dance around tasting the other features. Nice piece though Wish your customer had more of a budget too afford high dimension here.
Posted by Blake Koehn (Member # 5984) on :
Hi everybody, thank you all for taking the time to help me get a better handle on this whole layout thing.
I am very busy today with my other occupation and so I do not have time to work on all the tweaks you have mentioned here. I hope to this evening or something.
I really like John's version.
As to the font it is: "Corina BETA" a free download right now from Letterheadfonts.
thanks again, i will be back shortly.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Bill - which beveled edge look? What vector program are you using? I'm using Illustrator mostly....
If you're talking my first example at the beginning of this thread...I hacked that out pretty quickly with inlines and inline knockouts....I need to get a good screenshot program so I can do a little step by step easier for you....
Posted by Blake Koehn (Member # 5984) on :
One thing is the customer was here when I designed the first one and she loved it. So anything I do to the design will have to be cleared with her. After she left I posted it on here.
For the sake of the budget I am trying to stay with only about two colors of vinyl and a painted background.
I also don't want to come back to her with an entirely different design. I just want to tweak what I got into something she can be proud of if that is possible.
Here is another version, fire away!
Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
Blake, you have just lost all your contrast. And now the kerning beside the "C"s looks wonky!
If you are really stuck on this one, maybe try making that 1938 reverse cut in an oval panel to balance out the tree. The scrolls don't really need to be there, even if they are purty.
Even if you or your client are not keen on the reversed color idea, check out JD3's letter spacing and his treatment of the header text. And stick with your initial pallette because that new color just did not help.
love...Jill (I feel like I should start calling you "grasshopper" like in that old TV show)
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
If there's no room for tweaking and she loved what she saw....give it to her as is.
I do agree with Jill....the mirrored scrolls are unecessary and add nothing to the design the way they are presented.
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
No offense, Blake, but if you didn't want to use the advice, why ask for it?
Your initial design was not bad. Deaton's redesign was about the best of the replies. However, your last revision was a step backward - you gave yourself kerning and contrast problems, and added scrolls with a higher contrast than the copy (a design 101 basic error).
There is a lot of good advice on this board, but at some point you have to be able to understand what is good about it, and why. Otherwise you can end up making the same mistakes repeatedly. The fact that you come here and ask is a big first step; most of us, when starting out, didn't have this resource of talent to bounce ideas around. Keep working on this one.
Posted by Dan Antonelli (Member # 86) on :
THe optical center of the final sign is devoid of any content.... (aside from contrast issues).
Blake if its helpful, design in B&W first, or take your design into Photoshop as is, and then convert to greyscale and you will see your contrast issues.
Edited to add:
$500 or less? That price seems insane. By the time you cut the shape, prime it, paint it, installed it, you might as well have been working for minimum wage.
Figure your true costs on this - I cant fathom how anyone could make a sign like that for $500.
[ July 05, 2006, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: Dan Antonelli ]
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