Last night I was watching Nascar on tv and they showed the new graphics that Dale Jr. has on his car this week, it's done up to look like his grandfathers car, they zoomed in on the number and it had been designed with brush strokes to make it look just like the old days when they painted all the stuff on the cars, but this was a full digital wrap.. The announcers started talking about the old days, how so many times they had to wait for the sign painter to finish lettering the car so they could get out on the track. One announcer made the comment that "boy those sign painters where kinda strange guys.....the other announcer said he thought they had too many close encounters with the paint fumes Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
What a stupid concept
If they wanted it done like in the old days, what would have been wrong with hand lettering it???? This one falls in the same catagory as the guys with street rods that bolt Cadillac or Olsmobile valve covers on 350 Chevrolets....
[ June 17, 2006, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: George Perkins ]
Posted by Brent Logan (Member # 6587) on :
It was more like close encounters with exhaust fumes. I remember once trying to outline a set of numbers on a stock car door while the guys were mounting the engine at the same time. Back in the old days...
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Painting it would not be feasable. These guys use the same body over and over again... IF they don't wreck. There was a show on TV not long ago that showed a crew of 6 guys wrapping a car in a few hours. Sponsors change and they just wrap the car again with new graphics. Look at the Fed Ex car. Sometimes Fed is orange, sometimes green.
Posted by Joel Nelson (Member # 6609) on :
quote:Originally posted by Brent Logan: It was more like close encounters with exhaust fumes. I remember once trying to outline a set of numbers on a stock car door while the guys were mounting the engine at the same time. Back in the old days...
I had a lot of the same experiences with lettering while the friends were thrashing to get the car ready!! Mostly street stock.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
The wraps are the way to go since they change the paint schemes so often and it's not due so much to changing sponsorships as it is to marketing. T-shirt sales along with collectables is a monumental business. Dale Earnhardt Sr. made more money off merchandise than he did by winning races.
I'd really like to see a picture of this particular car to see if they changed the number style to match that of Ralph's. The 8 that is on the cars now is a takeoff of the 3 that was on the car that Earnhardt Sr. drove for so many years. That 3, that is forever linked to Sr., is actually the number and style that car owner Richard Childress ran when he drove. Sr. used the same style number eight, a narrow rounded number, that his father Ralph ran for years.
[ June 18, 2006, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: George Perkins ]
Posted by Carl Wood (Member # 1223) on :
Nice Photo - Thanks for posting it - what model is the car? Engine? - just curious - carl
Posted by Luke Scanlan (Member # 2481) on :
George, that's the same style of number on Jr.'s car this weekend. Darrel Waltrip said "those painters kinda liked smellin their paint fumes too much". What a retard. Every time he says that "boogity, boogity, boogity" crap, I want to cut my wrists. I think after Daytona, he and his illiterate parter Larry McReynolds are gone. If they switch networks like they have the last few years. Thank God. They're both obnoxious.
Posted by Mike Murray (Member # 840) on :
Here's a picture of the car, George. They even used the retro Budweiser logos.
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
I guess, due to the vast marketing programs the big teams have now, it's necessary to use the wraps. It's still a shame that the sign painter is no longer involved in racing.
I can remember many 3 am "evenings" trying to get the car done before the next race. Every now and then, some 'Melvin' would lean over a fender I had just lettered and leave it all smeared. Do it all over. And, I guess we all lament how most racers would spend thousands of dollars on most every component on the car, and then wanted the lettering done for nothing.
The greatest thing I'd like to see happen would be a car, or two, coming down the straightaway at Daytona with their entire wraps peeling off, folding back over the car, and flapping in the breeze. Every now and then, you'll see a decal peeling up on the TV coverage, but a full wrap, that would be awesome.
I'm about done with nascar anyway....or NASCLONE, as it's coming to be. There's no room anymore for any form of individuality. The 'car of tomorrow', I hope spells a groundswell of dissent on the part of fans, for a 'too-big-for-its-britches' organization and sport.
Posted by Tony Vickio (Member # 2265) on :
My "First Paying Job" as a signpainter was for Grahm Hill in 1974. He was the Formula 1 World Champion. I am writing a book on all the experiences I have had lettering race cars (Formula 1, Indy, Sprint, CanAm, and NASCAR) and painting at many race tracks. I am on "Lap 46". If anyone is interested I will send you the first three Chapters. It is called, "Tales of the Famous". I post chapters on my website from time to time.
I agree, the combination of paint fumes and exhaust fumes mixed is LETHAL!
Dale, I call WWW Nascar! It is becoming a JOKE!
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
If painted lettering isn't feasable then is doing the base color in vinyl possible? In the 80's I striped and lettered most of PeeWee Griffins Nascar cars. The first time I met him, he said I'm going to win Daytona this weekend and I need you to stripe that car tonight, what a trip. It was car 72 of Buddy Baker 1980.
Guess what Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Well, at least they did it right, although I still think using a wrap to simulate paint is rediculous. I used to follow NASCAR really closely but lost complete interest a few years back. Like most things, success spoiled it.
I see way better racing on the short tracks.
Carl, I'd be guessing about the exact models of the cars, I just grabbed pics off the internet. The small pic is of one of Ralph's cars...looks to be a 66-67 Chevelle. The bigger shot is Dale Sr. with a 68-72 Nova. The Chevelle could have had a 327 or a 350. The Nova more than likely had a 350. These cars were called late model sportsman back then. Today they are the Busch series cars. They ran a lot more short tracks back then. I used to watch both Ralph, in the early seventies and Dale Sr., in the mid seventies, at the Nashville Fairgrounds at big LMS shows.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Over the last few years, it was obvious to me that that the racing industry was going the way of the vehicle wrap, but I still had a lot of folks saying "You oughtta hook up with NASCAR."
WHY?!?!?!?!?! I paint cars.......
What really makes me smile looking at that car is knowing that I coulda lettered it in about 6 hours by hand, top to bottom. Goofy part is, they probably spent 3 times as much time fudging on a computer trying to make it LOOK like it was painted.
This was most likely a one time design for the weekend...they shoulda got a painter. Rapid
PS: Darrel Waltrip said "those painters kinda liked smellin their paint fumes too much".
Better than slamming you brain against a windshield at 140 MPH...which would explain a lot about your inept "color commentary". Just keep in mind, without all those painters, you grease monkeys would have never had a way to get a sponsor's name on a car shy of shoe polish.. ...and NASCAR would never ever gotten off the ground.
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
Wonder how long it'll be before they take it to its logical conclusion....start doing "Mini-Wraps" on those grossly overpriced models?
They could double the price, cause you'd be getting two cars for the price of one.
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Well said, Rapid.
And Dale, yea, I would love to see a wrap flapping down the track! That would be too funny.
Posted by Rob Klyver (Member # 6626) on :
The additional bonus (wrap over paint) is the weight savings. I vaguely remember it being a 60 pound difference - lighter that is - weight is speed and that 60# would be better placed at the bottom of the drivers booty - lower center of gravity = easier to align around and helps set up. (day job is in the racing biz) night weekend and inbetween is stickers...
Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
...I'm no scientist, and I detest NASCAR, but how, pray tell, could all that vynull from a wrap weigh less than a couple of ounces of lettering enamel? I don't believe it. love....Jill
[ June 21, 2006, 07:25 AM: Message edited by: Jill Marie Welsh ]
Posted by Rob Klyver (Member # 6626) on :
Hi Jill Sorry you detest NASCAR - its not for everyone - actually I work in open wheel racing but I enjoy the variety- However there are 120,000 people coming to my workplace starting Friday so I get a three day weekend that makes NASCAR okay :-) As for paint I copied this from a Richard Childress Racing Team website - "Question: I know a car is only used for a few seasons, but I was wondering how many times a car is painted? ANSWER: Probably about seven or eight times, but we don't use that much paint. If we have to redo the whole car, we strip all the paint off first. We try to keep one paint job on the car at all times. It adds weight to the car. One coat is probably about seven pounds. I am a pretty poor typist and the 60# was indeed just that. Also this probably has something to do with the wrap vs paint from RCR also " Question: How long does it take to paint the car and then apply all those decals? ANSWER: Well with three of us working on it, we can decal the #88 car in about an hour. It takes three hours to paint the car. And that's both colors. That also includes giving the paint enough time to dry."
However its all I suppose academic for those not interested in such things -
Posted by Rob Klyver (Member # 6626) on :
Oh one of my graduates from the mechanic school I run works on the finish shop side of Ganassi racing and he confirmed the time listed here -
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
I remember reading somewhere about somebody sanding all the paint off a car ( I wanna say it was a funny car ) sweeping it up off the floor and weighing it. Seems like it was six pounds or so.
Rob is so right about racers being weight concious, My son spent one winter cutting 800 pounds off his race car. He had to put most of it back on to meet the weight limit but it went back on in different places and the car handled soooooo much better. So much so, that he was able to enter some races in a class higher than his against cars with a couple of hundred horsepower more and still be competetitive.
On the weight deal, I used to paint a lot of sprint cars in the eighties, bodiew, wings and all. These guys were extremely weight concious as there were no weight limits back then. The most popular color at the time was white, The heaviest color............white. I explained this one to a number of crew chiefs but nobody paid any attention. It might have only saved a pound or two, but when you're drilling bolts down the center to save grams, it would have been a big deal.
Posted by Dana Blair (Member # 951) on :
You know it George. I still work on the sprint car circuits. They will do anything to save on rotating weight. Many circuits have outlawed many titanium parts now due to the cost of the stuff. But now that the circuits have a 1375# minimum weight (with driver) the weight saved by lightening the rotating weight has to be moved elsewhere. I know one driver (you know him too George) that carries an extra foot rest block for the floorpan that weighs 7 pounds instead of the standard less than one pound. The weight savings from paint is also why many airlines went to the plain metal look for a while. A paint job on a plane (I think it was either a 727 or 737) weighs 400 pounds.
Posted by Mark Perkins (Member # 296) on :
I was watching a Formula 1 race a few weeks back and they showed this years Mclaren, it's painted with a chrome paint and they mentioned that they almost didn't use the chrome paint because it added one pound more than regular paint. Car sure looks good though! Just not very fast this year Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
I'm a little surprised that so many racers are conscious of the weight of paint. Many cars now have to have weight added to them to make it up to the minimum.
Anybody know how powder coating compares, weight-wise to paint?
Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
A while back I got to letter a "Legends" car I think they called it, a 30s' model body that raced in the 50s. Thye wanted to reproduce the "nephew art" numbers and logos that were on the original, well not nephew art, but definately not top notch lettering. Used to do a lot of local cars. I don't miss finishing up a car at 1am while they tune the engine.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Hehehehee Bill...been there, done that!
Just had to learn to stroke between the vrooooms!
Posted by Rob Klyver (Member # 6626) on :
Wow I was just reminded of doing the midnight to 3 AM 'shift" on a Trans Am.... It was in 1999 and the Ford guys decided to launch a new Mustang. So our customer (a vintage prep shop) has Parnelli Jones' 1970 Boss 302 Trans Am and its gonna be the centerfold then go to a race. Poor Scott is testing it prior to the race and gets pinched at turn 11 and wiped out the left front fender and part of the door - Fords coming in 24 hours ... well oh dear... they have to paint and it has to set and then we have to apply the graphics - so we do it it was a hot day and night like this week has been and we did it! All was well and then the brochures come out with an artsy fuzzy shot! ha ha there is a close up of the numbers on the hood with PJs gloves ha ha I'll try to figure out a posting process for the pix
Posted by Rob Klyver (Member # 6626) on :
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
![[Bash]](graemlins/bash.gif)
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)