I have an interview for a spot as an airbrush artist at American Ironhorse here in Arlington,TX. First a couple of questions: I haven't worked in this industry before but am an experienced artist. What should I expect to start at as far as salary goes? Is there usually room for advancement or will I eventually end up opening my own shop (which wouldn't be all bad).
Secondly: I have a fairly secure job at a design agency w/benefits. All I've ever wanted to be is an airbrush artist, but I have a very young daughter and a wife to support.
Should I take the plunge...or put it off until older and more financially stable. (P.S. I'm 23 years old if that means anything)
I deeply value most of your inputs...I think the friendly and honest people know who they are.
Thanks.
Posted by Eric Houser (Member # 4461) on :
Kelsey, I'm not an airbrush artist so I can't help you with salary range, but if the money was right, and the business is established enough that you think it will last for a while, I'd go for it.
You're still young enough to take chances with your career. Better off to take the chances while you can.
If I could go back to 23, I'd take a bunch more chances! Posted by Blake Wright (Member # 6584) on :
Well, all I'll say is stability and insurance account for a lot when you have a family. Good luck man Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
You have nothing to lose by applying. Can't help you with the wage part, and I know insurance is a must. But I'd never discourage someone from following their heart. love....jill
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
May as well apply and find out what kinda money and benefits there may be.
As far as advancement, you'd have to see what else the company has to offer. There may not be much room within the company itself, you might be going in as the Chief (and only) airbrush artist or there might be other ranks to work your way up.. but once you're the top airbrush dude, where do you go from there?
Anyway, it's worth a shot checking into it, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Then again I'm 30 and single, no prospects and no dependants, and zero debt so I'm pretty much free to jump into whatever strikes my fancy at the moment. Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Kelsey,
Being an artist is great, but there are a number of other things you'll need to become versed for a job like that.
Most shop doing high end work deal with Kandy colors, pearls, effects and any number of automotive basecoat paints. I wish I could tell you it's a snap to learn it all, but that would be a lie. I've been spraying all kinds of paints for years and still have the occasional "total disaster" from time to time. It can get VERY costly when you're working on top notch custom vehicles and having to go back down to the primer to fix the boo boos.
Look into it, but if you really wanna make it work, get familiar not only with the materials you'll be using, but the way they are prepped. It's often the real key to making a bike come out great.
Wish I knew this stuff when I was 23.... Rapid
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Bluffing your way into a job working on someone's stuff is risky, at best. Why lose a sure secure gig to boot?
Your family should come first. You have child that relies on you to feed her and keep a roof over her head, not to mention the medical insurance. Your child and wife are your number one priority.
Ray knows what he is talking about. Learn what you can first and then take the plunge when you are truly ready. TRULY ready. Not because it is "something you always wanted to do".
Posted by R T Thomas (Member # 355) on :
Kelsey, All you ever wanted "was to be an airbrush artist"? Are you an airbrush artist? If you are, great, go for it! If you aren't........hmmmmm...first I better ask..do these folks know that you are not an airbrush artist? Is this a "learn as you go job"? I suppose the latter would be the case if your answer to my question is "no". I'm not doubting your ability. You probably have the ability to be an aibrush artist, but if you aren't one already all I can say is it's not just walk in and start painting. It takes years of practice to really have a clue. Hell, I've been practicing for years and I still don't have one. Even after doing it for a living for over 25 years! Good luck on whatever you choose to do. Airbrushing is a great job and you can make lotsa money doing it. Have fun!
See ya, R.T.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Kelsey..At your age,and with your family commitments. My advice would be to stick with what you know is a good thing. "Benefits" are a very good thing!!!
Wait until the child is pretty much grown up and the house is almost paid for..Then go for a change...
At age 23 you have a Looong time left to decide your options.
Trust me....40 years old is a VERY nice time of life to make a change..or stick with what you know..might not seem like it from the view of a 23 year old..but it IS....
(posted from the view of a 61 year old veteran of life)
Posted by Joel Nelson (Member # 6609) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bruce Bowers: Bluffing your way into a job working on someone's stuff is risky, at best. Why lose a sure secure gig to boot?
Your family should come first. You have child that relies on you to feed her and keep a roof over her head, not to mention the medical insurance. Your child and wife are your number one priority.
Ray knows what he is talking about. Learn what you can first and then take the plunge when you are truly ready. TRULY ready. Not because it is "something you always wanted to do".
Just thought Bruce's quote at the bottom of his post was kind of ironic.
I too have a family now and insurance is expensive. I would stick with what you have and do the custom stuff on the side where you can develop your skills without all the stress, keeping it fun.
Good luck
[ June 16, 2006, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: Joel Nelson ]
Posted by Joel Nelson (Member # 6609) on :
no offense Bruce.
[ June 16, 2006, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: Joel Nelson ]
Posted by Dana Bowers (Member # 780) on :
I see what you're saying Joel. But you have to weigh your risks vs your responsibilities. YES its GOOD to take chances, but make sure you aren't gonna regret those either.
And sometimes the risks are thrown at you and you don't have alot of choices.
Take it from us, after Bruce's heart attack and bypass surgery WITH NO INSURANCE and the TONS of $$$$$ we are in debt now (plus pretty much losing everything we had)... DO NOT LOSE YOUR INSURANCE.
You can take a risk at being an airbrush artist at home at night and on weekends.
Insurance is a REALLY hard thing to get and trust me, if you don't have it and something happens, you're gonna REALLY regret that!
[ June 16, 2006, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Dana Bowers ]
Posted by Kelsey Dum (Member # 6101) on :
I am a few years experienced with airbrushing and am confident in my skills. I agree that I don't have enough experience with the body work that goes along with it, but where better to get experience than in a shop. I doubt that they will be able to offer what I am currently making, but I want to at least do the interview... couldn't hurt!
I have always been seriously passionate about my art and eventually want to make a career out of my painting skills...not my computer skills.
Edited to add: Thanks for all the heart felt feedback. I'm young DUM and not afraid of life.
[ June 16, 2006, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Kelsey Dum ]
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Joel,
No offense taken here!
My quote refers to options and roads taken in the course of life. There are mitigating factors that determine what course of action to take and the chances that are acceptable.
Having a child and needing the insurance, as well as a stable and reliable source of income, is imperitive. She is counting on her Daddy to provide for her because she can't do it alone.
If Kelsey was unmarried and/or childless, my opinion would be different. While I can appreciate the chasing of one's dreams, the choices we make have to be a factor in which direction we choose to go.
Dana and I left New York because the circumstances dictated the path to choose. My ex-partner, while I was in the hospital under going my double bypass, locked me out of my business and my building and forced us to accept the offer he put on the table because we were in no position to do anything about it.
We came here to look into buying an operating shop north of here but the deal couldn't be made to work so we are exploring option "B" and possibly looking at options "C" and "D", too.
Point is, I am not going to regret moving here. I will not regret taking this chance but I had NOTHING to lose at the time. I could have pussed out, stayed in the Empire State, and whined and boo hoo'd about how Tracy screwed me or whatever but we left and came here.
I regret some of the chances I have taken in my life as well as regretting not taking some others.
I took a chance not going to college and chasing a career as a signpainter. No regrets there.
I took a chance going to California for 2-1/2 years to further my career. No regrets, either.
I opened my own shop in 1987. I have some regrets but it worked out in the end.
The underlying point is my risk factor was not determined by having a family or a child and the accompanying responsibilities. If I had, I would have choosen different paths.
I wish Kelsey the best in whatever path he chooses to go down and that it brings satisfaction and joy to him and his family.
Posted by Suelynn Sedor (Member # 442) on :
I have a different opinion than some of you here.
I think Kelsey should definitely at least go to the interview and find out what this new job is all about. If it is something he wants to do, and it offers him the chance to learn some new skill he's interested in, I say go for it.
I'm not sure how young your daughter is so I'm assuming she's an infant. Now is the time to make some moves, not when she is in school and possibly baby number 2 or 3 is in the picture. As she gets older, you are going to be busier running with her activities and it will get more and more expensive to raise a family.
Change can be a really scary thing at any time in your life and you will always find reasons NOT to do it.
I believe if you are patient, the right opportunities always present themselves to you. You have to be open to receive them. Good luck with your choice.
Suelynn
Posted by Kelsey Dum (Member # 6101) on :
Thanks Suelynn,
That's kind of how I feel. The wierd thing is that this kind of did fall into my lap. I by no means have the job yet but this is definitely a BIG opportunity for me. Maybe it will at least lead to some part time work or something. I learn something new from every experience and that's what it's about. The only thing that strikes me a little odd is that this is a larger corporation so they may actually offer benifits and all.
Posted by Jeff Wisdom (Member # 6193) on :
I would definitely just check it out and ask thorough questions in the interview. Find out more about the company, how established it is, what their goals are. Even talk to other employees if you can. It is best to find out as much as you can about Ironhorse, its work environment, how they treat their employees, etc. Be wary of "future" promises, I have had a few jobs where I was told I would have benefits or a certain hours, schedule etc. and since I didn't have anything in writing, I had nothing to stand on. Also consider the option of freelancing for one of the companies, either the design firm you are with now, (working from home) or ironhorse. Keep your options open, don't make a hasty decision and do what is best for your family and your future.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Posted by Suelynn Sedor (Member # 442) on :
I just wanted to add that I am really glad my husband didn't stay were he was when he was 23. (He's now 43) He took some opportunities as they came along, and is in a great position today. We had to make some sacrifices in our starting years, but I think it enriched us in alot of ways to have to work together.
Keep us posted! Suelynn
Posted by Rose Davidson (Member # 6168) on :
I will echo Jeff's warning: "Be wary of "future" promises, I have had a few jobs where I was told I would have benefits or a certain hours, schedule etc. and since I didn't have anything in writing, I had nothing to stand on." This happens more often than not, no matter how nice of a person you are, no matter how nice they are, no matter how talented you are, no matter how many hours of your life you give the company instead of spending it with your family.... oh, now I am sounding bitter..... don't let that happen to you... get it in writing!!!!
Posted by Jim Moser (Member # 6526) on :
We all make choices in life, which in retrospect are not always the best ones, but we chose the best path based on the information we have at the time. At least go check it out and see what they offer you. American Iron Horse is a fairly large company so they should have some sort of insurance plan and maybe other benefits.
When you go for the interview ask lots of questions....Ask to see where you will be working and what kind of equipment they have and what materials you will be using....in other words, interview them.
In most of the motorcycle and other vehicle painting I have done over almost 50 years, I have used a combination of Airbrush and Brush work. You will probably be dealing with automotive urethane type materials and House of Color urethane striping paint which can be brushed or sprayed. These can be rather toxic so I would imagine they have a good exhaust system and expect you to wear a mask. Although it is possible that they are using some sort of water based system.... Anyway ...at least go check it out...if you don't you will allways wish you had...
[ June 16, 2006, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: Jim Moser ]
Posted by Dawn Drake (Member # 6533) on :
Things to consider: -How long have you been at your curent job If your not established where you are maybe your lucky to have the stability- benefits etc. -Do you have contacts that could help you get back to a "safe" job you could live with and have in reasonable time if you needed to -Will your pay at the new job allow enough for a cobra insurance payment? -If you had to could your wife work at something that would allow you to get benefits? I've Known of women working in a school system in the office for example- part time not great pay but excellent benefit pkg.
Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
Ive been chasing dreams all my life and still havent caught one. If you have a stable job, making good money, insurance, and you like what you do, stay with it. The airbrush field is full of artists, some great, some not so great, who make decent money, but most of them have nothing else. Sometimes I get the urge to just chuck it all, and take a job with a steady paycheck, insurance, 401k, etc. If you were single and no dependents, I might say something different, but you have a family that depends on you. That changes everything. Then again, if you were an airbrush artist on the scale of Mike Lavallee, Id say go for it, but them kind is few and far between. Ive been working for myself for umpteen years now, and although I live pretty good, I have no medical insurance, not much savings, and worry that one day the jobs will stop coming in. What a life. Posted by Dana Bowers (Member # 780) on :
Suelynn - where you in the position of being able to support your family as he was taking chances? That makes a big difference.
Going on an interview and checking things out isn't a problem. Its that final decision of what to do if a job is offered.
Taking chances can be a very good thing for growth. Especially if you have a second person available to back up financially.
I just look at it this way. You do NOT want to be where we are with a young child. Heck, I don't want to be where we are without a young child.
I don't think people realize how important insurance is. I know we didn't. Yeah, you know you should have it, but what the heck? Can't afford it, nothing will happen to me - it always happens to the other guy, and we'll just cross that bridge when we get there.
UM... yeah.
You look at your family, your living situation, your savings for the future, your short term plans, your long term hopes... all of that and ask yourself what would happen with a sudden unexpected accident, or health issue or whatever.
Now what? Are you in a position where you can recover from it?
Are you willing to loose EVERYTHING and start over from scratch, but in the hole at the same time?
Before people take leaps towards chances, make sure you got some sort of a safety net below you.
Sometimes the chances are best taken when you have nothing to lose. We're being forced into taking chances ourselves right now, but we've already lost everything, so have nothing left to lose.
And things don't always go as planned. You can work your butt off trying really hard to make something work, but with other people involved, you don't know where they are in their chance-taking mode for their families either.
Check it out. Get as much information as possible and really weigh the pros and cons. Talk it over with your family, and make sure you have a back-up plan.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Kelsey,
I started out in this business with nothing but an airbrush. Had never tried slinging a paint brush and never even heard of One Shot paint for the first two years. Every letter I did was masked off and sprayed on everything from race cars to signs.
Bruce makes a really important point about being ready to take the step. The job I have now is great, but it took a long time coming to the point where I felt ready to tackle it. My lettering and pinstriping skills had to come a long way, I did a lot of trial and error with different paints and effects, and worked full time jobs to pay the bills while my children were growing up.
In my first post, I said I wish I knew all this stuff when I was 23. Sure, knowledge is a great thing, but I certainly wouldn't have been any better for it. It was the hands on experience that was needed to get me ready for the job I have today. Without the ability to pinstripe and letter, as well as airbrush, I probably would have gotten the job.
It took a whole lot longer than I thought it would (impatience of my youth), but in the long run, knowing you're ready is a whole lot better than hoping you're ready.
Happy Father's Day! Rapid
[ June 18, 2006, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
Kelsey, something bothers me here. Two weeks ago you posted in the portfolio section mentioning that you were new to airbrushing. Fairly new is not ready to base your family's security on your skills. Ray was dead on. High end paint requires a hell of a lot more knowlege than just artistic skill. I'd really stress the importance of sticking with the sure thing until you're in such demand that you're being offered more than one job at a time. That way you know if you change and it doesn't work out you can quit at lunch and have a better job by the end of the day.
Posted by Kelsey Dum (Member # 6101) on :
Hello everyone,
I was made an offer of 30,000 plus benefits. This is nice but less than what I'm making now, and I am in no position for a pay cut with my daughter and school loans. However, with the setup they have I will get A LOOOOTTTTT of experience and practice...8 hours a day of strictly painting...about 25 bikes a day. I think they enjoyed my pinstriping skills a little better than my airbrushing skills, but I will be doing a little of both.
I really want to work here but am very nervous to take any risk financially. Should I ask for more and see if they follow? If I don't take the job I want to keep a good name with them in case I am in the position to work for them in the future.
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kelsey Dum: 8 hours a day of strictly painting...about 25 bikes a day
Custom airbrush work in 20 minutes per bike?
You do realize that works out to less than $5 per bike. (25 bikes x 5 days x 52 weeks for $30,000)
Posted by Kelsey Dum (Member # 6101) on :
Patrick, I'm not going to divulge their method of painting bikes just yet, but this is an extremely high volume business and they have the staff to compensate. I don't believe I would personally paint 25 bikes a day, but that's about how many bikes are painted each day.
Posted by Greg DePauw (Member # 6604) on :
Kelsey, I agree with SueLynn. Do the interview look for advancement in the air brush industry. Learn, then learn some more, FOLLOW your dreams. I DID! I had a dream to design and drive a car from my wheelchair! I DID IT! It took 20 years of dreaming and searching for the "right" people to guide me and now the car is a reality! the car has become a symbol of what we "CAN DO"....no matter what. But, I am also a full time fine artist and art instructor. I am secure with my personal ART and with over 30+ years experiance in selling my Art. The car, a 1937 Ford called ART ROD is a catalyst to promote the possibilities within each of us. The web site tells MY STORY. www.artrodfoundation.com Bottom line for you at age 23 with a child I would advise to definately look into it, go for the interview and know that you can always say NO. There will be people looking for you as a Airbrush artist as you develope over the years. Find a mentor in airbrush art. I read all the others advice,and it is all good. Now you need to make YOUR decision. All we can do is tell you our stories......and there is no one path towards your goal. But, have fun along the way cause we only go round once. Regards, GREG Posted by Greg DePauw (Member # 6604) on :
KELSEY, I just read that you CAN NOT take the financial cut...so pass on it. Practice more airbrush and keep in good with Iron Horse. Find someone at that shop to mentor you. Regards, GREG
Posted by Sonny Franks (Member # 588) on :
Thoreau said: "Ask no man's opinion but your own".
But make sure it's cool with your wife - I don't know if Thoreau was married. Speaking of that, what IS your wife's take on all this?
Posted by Kelsey Dum (Member # 6101) on :
Well, I had to turn the job down. Just didn't offer enough for me at the moment. Although the experience would have been great I'm sure it won't be my last opportunity. I'll keep panting and progressing in the meantime. At least I have some great people here that are willing to help me with questions I have.
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