Maybe this has been covered before but with the weather changing I'm receiving requests for estimates on vehicle lettering. The way I'm going about it is to figure:
how much vinyl I'd use. design time installation time.
Have I left anything out of the equation?
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Overhead and fabrication labor.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
I have always been amazed that magnetics seem to sell for less, (at other shops), than directly applied lettering. Your actual material cost is higher when magnetics are included. Just plain goofy!
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Don't forget app tape, & if you need it, fluid & cleaners...(or build that into overhead)
plus plotting time, & weeding time, & travel, & wasted time, & invoicing time...
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
PROFIT!
Checkers
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
Rick, I agree totally about the magnetics. You see ads all over about 'magnetic signs for $35 - 40 per pair. That's nuts! No way is anyone making any money doing them that cheap.
That kind of stuff just drives the price down for all of us, and makes us look like we are ripping people off when we charge a realistic price. I never charge less than $75 a pair, and have gotten $150 for custom painted ones, designed to match the vehicle they went on.
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
I have a standard three tier pricing for truck lettering: plain, one colour; nice, two or three colours and full colour digital print. These prices are an average of 20-30% higher than what I'd get for labour/material. It also keeps me from guessing, when asked what the job is going to cost. I find that customers haggle much less when they see a fixed price on a list. Posted by Denis de Leon (Member # 5844) on :
All these answers make sense - especially Checkers (PROFIT).
Seems like I was on the right track. Figure out my overhead add in my profit and I'm rich. Too bad there's no quick way whereby I can give the customer a price on the spot.
Lotti, your method is interesting. Are you posting your costing method for the customer to see or the price? If it's the price, how does that square with time/labor/materials for different vehicle types/installations?
Posted by Mike O'Neill (Member # 470) on :
Get a copy of a pricing guide, even the one in last years Signcraft to give you an idea of the value of the work.
If you start doing work on a cost+ basis you'll leave a lot of money on the table.
I've stated before, it's just as important to know the value of a job, as it is to know the cost of a job.
[ May 29, 2006, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Mike O'Neill ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Glenn is on the money with the first obvious omissions. Mike hits the other one - "perceived value"
Rick, I'm one of those who doesn't have higher costs for magnets because there is no logistical cost for the timing to complete them. I can start, & stop as other demands require. I can start whenever I want, delay however long I want & complete at my leisure as well. I find this to allow more efficiency with the other goings on in the shop. I don't really like magnets much so I almost always try to upsell to vehicle graphics, which I have good luck with.. then I can offer some striping or lettering placement that jumps "outside the box" of a normal auto mag layout & justifies anywhere from an extra $50 to an extra $500 worth of work (and value)
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Vehicle lettering has the higest advertising value of anything we do - more people see a vehicle than a stationary sign.
Now, compare the cost of a display ad in your local newspaper for one day to the cost of lettering a van. How many people see that newspaper ad as opposed to how many will see the van over the life of the sign on the side?
I doubt that the person selling the newspaper ad figures the price from how much ink they use and the cost of the newsprint for the paper. But they will stress how that ad is going to help your business and influence people to buy your product or service.
Seems like we are missing something.
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
Hi Denis, in answer to your questions, no, I do not explain to the customers how I price a job if not specifically asked. I find it isn't helpful to volunteer more information than necessary.
With a fixed rate, some jobs will be more profitable and some less, but it evens itself out.
I have a separate list for semis, pickups, vans and cars. They list the popular installations for each(doors, tailgate, etc)with prices in different categories. It's basically a simple cross chart, like the one in the pricing guide, but based on my personal shop rates and local market value. Not exactly a science, I know, but it works to take the headache out of pricing, which is important for me. I can always adjust up or down for unusual jobs.
Of course you can always make different lists for different type of clients. After having seen the vehicle and heard the initial comments, you can then proceed to pull out either the prefered customer or PITA list. There's no end to the possibilities ... Posted by Robert Cole (Member # 477) on :
As I perseave this question, It is ALWAYS important for the sign person to realize that you are in the ADVERTISING business. Sell your finished product on the basis of its' ADVERTISING VALUE. If you don't start from that premise, you ARE LEAVING MONEY ON THE TABLE! It is NOT shameful to charge the customer a fair and reasonable fee for the ADVERTISING you are providing to them. If all you are doing is putting decorative graphics on their vehicle then charge for your creativity.
If you don't respect your ability to be creative I can assure you that the customer will NOT offer you additional money after the job is completed because he/she recognizes the "creative talent" you have.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.........
Charge them before you start, so they will know that they are working with a truly creative person, and they will be happy to let all their friends know what a great piece of ADVERTISING they have on their vehicle.
Why is it that we spend money to ADVERTISE our business in the phone book, ADVERTISE on the Internet, ADVERTISE on the radio, ADVERTISE on TV, ADVERTISE with flyers or handbills, ADVERTISE with business cards, ADVERTISE on our own vehicles..........
Then forget to sell ADVERTISING to our clients when they want their vehicles lettered. (ADVERTISING)
OH, BTW did I forget to mention "ADVERTISING" Posted by Denis de Leon (Member # 5844) on :
Thanks everyone. I was thinking that the perceived value was added in to the price but the labor + materials method sometimes doesn't do that (unless of course, its set up that way).
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hiya Denis, Here's a link to some comments I made about perceived value on another site... What's it worth? Vehicle lettering is marketing and can be a crtitical part of your advertising campaign. When priced in a way similar to traditional advertising, you'll find that vehicle advertising can be worth a lot more than what you think would be a high price.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Dawn Drake (Member # 6533) on :
What if something is kind of in between a vehicle wrap and "normal" truck lettering? I dont want to get involved with van lettering for less than $500 I have had customers ask for something like my splashes only on a van No takers yet. Since it involves creating art not fonts and click art and since I'd have to install it in my home garage.....?
Posted by Denis de Leon (Member # 5844) on :
Checkers, that kind of math is hard to argue with. One of the things I've noticed is that the more successful the business person the more inclined that person is to understand "how" to advertise.
It's the ones that don't "get it" that'll pass up the kind of math you've mentioned.
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
I had a old sign guy when I first started tell me a few things about pricing that I always try to keep in mind when pricing...
1) It is only worth what someone is willing to pay
2) Filene's can always have a sale but Kmart can never raise their prices.
3) would you rather letter 2 trucks for 1,000 bucks each, or 10 trucks for 200 each?
4) a $250 lettering job on a truck will last 5 years thats 50 bucks a year which is less than 5 bucks a month it works out to pennies a day.
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Last bump for now
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Michael R. Bendel (Member # 5847) on :
quote:Originally posted by Denis de Leon: how much vinyl I'd use. design time installation time.
Call the local successful competitors & see what they are getting for basic vehicle lettering. Do a better job & get more. That's a start.
You'll consistently leave money on the table if that's your only formula for pricing.
Be competitive & enjoy!
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
"Too bad there's no quick way whereby I can give the customer a price on the spot."
There is, Mike mentioned the SignCraft pricing guide. Get it. Truck lettering is pretty cut and dried. It's either a standard cab pickup/day cab 18 wheeler/dumptruck set of doors. A four door pick up, a van. They are all pretty much the same size in each group. You need to have a source for pricing readily available. 99% of truck lettering jobs will be able to be priced on the spot. I use a four tier method. I'll use my pricing on a set of doors as an example only because being in New Jersey, your prices will probably need to be higher.
1. Identification only $125 This is a very simple, one color job. The customer is only getting the truck lettered to meet state requirements. Around here, this would be 85% of the dumptrucks and 60% of the wreckers. You can offer an upsell but most times it's like trying to teach a pig to dance. I do all these type jobs in vinyl.
2. Standard $225 This is also a pretty basic layout but with a little more effort on the layout and I'll use two or three colors. I'll go either paint or vinyl on these. The painted versions would be considered "knockouts"
3. Custom $375 This job is tighter than the standard and may feature something like convex lettering or an outline/shadow with a pinline. There might be a little pinstriping thrown in.
4. High End $500 up The sky's the limit on these. Airbrushing, leafing, custom foils, striping....the works.
Posted by Mike Normington (Member # 7520) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Chapman: I doubt that the person selling the newspaper ad figures the price from how much ink they use and the cost of the newsprint for the paper. But they will stress how that ad is going to help your business and influence people to buy your product or service.
Seems like we are missing something.
What we are missing is that the newspaper ad guy doesn't have 5 other newspaper ad guys willing to do it for basically nothing competing with him for business. I don't know about where you all are from, but in Chicago it's cutthroat. People are giving it away for free. I just don't get it.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Mike..No sense in competing with guys who give it away for free.
Walk away, turn on the TV, watch a movie and wait for another customer to call.
I'd rather do that than work for free.
Posted by Mike Clayton (Member # 723) on :
Dennis, i used to live in NJ.
It all depends on what type of vehicle you are doing.
For example, on a pick up truck: I would get 100-150 bucks a door to start, and then add on for the tailgate and bedsides if they needed it. That was painted or vinyl, don't undersell yourself, sometimes it's better to pass up a job then give it away.
And as George added, if they want painted with airbrushed highlights, or gold leaf done, then it goes even higher. If you do that.
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