Customer comes in and wants to order a sign. You discuss size, copy, price, a quick sketch is made and all is agreeable. Then the customer says they need to choose which fonts for you to use. What would be your reply? Honest answers please.
[ May 12, 2006, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Roy Frisby ]
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
I would ask them what kind of feel they are looking for. I would explain to them that I am a professional and as far as letterstyle choices go they need to trust my judgement.
That is how I handle those situations because I have been there and done that...
[ May 12, 2006, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Bowers ]
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
I would have them give me an example and try to match the look and feel.
I'm not a font salesman. Maybe they are used to doing that at another shop. I have been to too many shops that have a font list on the wall or even books or fonts and clip-art for the customer to pick and choose.
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
"That's OUR job and that's why you trust us with your work... We can do some sketches for you to choose from if you like, but we charge for that. What style did you have in mind? Modern, scripty, old fashioned?" OR "You can sit at the computer with us and pick out alphabets but we have 4000+ and we charge hourly for that. Would you like to schedule something like that?"
USUALLY when they hear HOURLY or CHARGE, they are fine with you taking over and doing your thing. Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
I would ask if there is a specific reason they want to choose the fonts. Are they trying to match something else? Once I know the reason, I can come up with a strategy for getting them something nice.
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
Usually, I cringe when someone wants to do this, however, I just sold a sign to a family law attorney that wished to pick her type style.
She had a certain feel in mind for what she wanted. From her description, we narrowed it down to some choices and scrolled through examples and she picked one. She had good taste and we are building her plaque. I did figure the time into the bill.
Posted by Stefanie Fox (Member # 6523) on :
I usually tell them that "I will take care of everything for them" and that it is "all under control" and they "dont have to worry about a thing"...and "I have done this sort of thing a million times" blah blah blah...
basically I try to put them at ease, and assure them that they are paying me to do my job and I am going to do it properly for them because I want them to be happy and have success from the work I am about to do for them. (after all, if they are not happy they won't hire me back, and since I am the only window splasher in town, my work is on display for all to see...so we both need it to be great)
I only have one customer that still thinks she gets to design her windows. (?) Usually I take her components and redesign it anyway into something that will really work and when I come back to do the install, I show her the new sketch and she says "oh, yeah!" I paint the new design, and voila, everyone is happy. I have done lots of work for them and they have become almost like family to me. true story. :-)
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
I usually hand them the Gerber Typestyle book, after 2 or 3 pages of fonts they quickly become bored and confused and just hand it back and let me do the job.
but I just made a sign that the customer even supplied with her own typestyle, no biggie!
[ May 12, 2006, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :
350 fonts in the computer and 7,00+ on CD's. We have Omega's on our computers. Type in whatever she's wanting to say on the comp-page, click on the "T" icon, show her how to hit the up arrow and the down arrow. "Call me when you find it". This is literally how we handle that. Nobody has ever gone beyond the first 75 or so before saying "This is it!" Takes typically a max of 10 minutes and saves an hour of conversation or two hours of "show & tell". Not rocket science.
P
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
That my brush Dosen't have enough storage to keep more then 4 fonts on file so they will have to settle on which one is loaded at the time. But I have heard that Mack may be making a larger brush that has more storage...
Ok Maybe not since I can't hand letter but sounds good. We have a general Font Board with 100 or so fonts they can look at and they can pick from that or to just trust us and they will se what we come up with. Very rarely do they ever balk at this and if they want a specific font and I dont have it they have to supply it to us.
Posted by Tracie Johnson (Member # 6117) on :
I usually try to keep it vague as well. I tell them we have between 300 and 400 fonts on our machine, but if they have "a look" in mind, I'll try to pick a similar type font that will work well on their sign. I let them know they'll get to see proof before we make the sign. That usually satisfies them.
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
Ummm....we've got 24 different fonts on an 8' x 8' section of the wall right next to the desk we take orders at. Very rarely, maybe once a week, someone will actually want to pick a font. Usually when somebody asks we point them to the board while giving them the option to pick or let us make it look good for them. Just those 24 fonts are enough to confuse them into letting us do it. If they do pick it gives us an idea of the style they are looking for and we pick something similar.
The funny part is that we got so burned out using the fonts on that board that I don't even have half of them loaded anymore.
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
It's an Arkansas thing Roy! They just don't trust us!
Posted by Ron Helliar (Member # 398) on :
"They should consult with their designer. The time involved in type style choices would make us too expensive." Spend an hour with the designer and have them send over an eps for printing and everyone will be happier & on budget.
The humor is dry today but it usually gets us where we want to be.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
My response in all honesty....
"Ok, but you are only allowed to pick the good ones, otherwise I get to charge extra."
I've used that line more times than I care to count. They tend to chuckle and get my point.
.
Posted by Mark Tucker (Member # 6461) on :
Ha! Reminds me of a sign I did for a customer several years back. It was for a bed & breakfast joint, "King's Bed & Breakfast", a 4' x 6' routed HDU sign with a lot of copy on it (rates, hours, parking, etc.) The customer wanted the entire sign in Old English. I said, "Well, for the header "King's Bed & Breakfast", fine! But the rest of this smaller copy needs to be something more readable." I showed her about a dozen options, to no avail. "I want EVERYTHING in Old English!" I did a drawing as directed and she approved it. I made the sign and installed it. About a month later the phone rings and it's the customer. "This sign you did for us is very hard to read. Can you fix it?"
Posted by Stefanie Fox (Member # 6523) on :
Maybe the Queen should have listened to the King?
Posted by Mark Tucker (Member # 6461) on :
quote:Originally posted by Stefanie Fox: Maybe the Queen should have listened to the King?
Well naturally, Stefanie! Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
The client either has a good idea of what he wants, and can name several fonts, or else he has no idea how many fonts there are. I'd make a wall display like Patrick's. I might also print a paragraph in some fonts, as a hint at what a B&B's small copy would look like in Olde English.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
This is my opinion (note the word "opinion") - there should never be anything in the showroom that shows font styles or color samples. The only reason for having them there would be for the customer to choose one. When that happens you are no longer the designer, the customer is and you are simply taking the order....just like at McDonalds.
Letters do more than just spell something - they create an image or mood. Your job as a designer is to know when to use what. Most of our clients do not have that ability.
With that said, my approach is normally to let them know that we have their best interest in mind and that we will provide them with a design that enhances their image. Usually I will point to some of the photos that we have on the wall and briefly explain the differences.
If that fails, I hand them a catalog of fonts from Precision Type that has thousands of fonts from various typographers (all in very small print) and they are confused immediately.
If that fails, I ask them to bring me a font that they would like to use or we could choose one together but the rate is $100 an hour with a one hour minumum.
At no time does the customer look over my shoulder while scrolling through all the fonts on the computer. I have better things to do with my time. In fact, at no time does the customer ever even see my computer monitor. I either make a quick pencil sketch for a general idea or ask them to come back later to see a print out. Or I email them a drawing.
And sometimes you just swallow hard and do the sign with Brush Script, just like they wanted.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
I just tell them I have over 1900 fonts on my comuter and more I can whip up with a brush...usually scares them away from the whole "I gotta pick a font" thing.
Just like Brudda Bruce, I ask them what kind of feel they want to project in their design. I break it down to slick, fancy or fun. Slick - Bold, clean, italics. Hard edges and maybe slight serifs. Serpentine, revue, golden, compacta and incised fall into this catagory. Fancy - Most people relate this to serif letterstyles, Times New Roman being top of the list since it's so common. Many of the Letterhead Fonts, Tifany Heavy, and script lettering falls into this group. Fun - Cartoon time. Personally, I much prefer when a customer goes this route. Once a good cartoonish (is that a word?)font is chosen, many will go the next step and add an illustration or characture. It often upsells a job to design something less formal.
Brush script has been deleted from both my computers...ends that problem, Ray. Rapid
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
I ask if there is something they had in mind, perhaps used elsewhere. If not, I ask what type of 'feel' they are going for & explain that I have thousands of fonts. I'll come up with a few that fit that feel AND will be effective on their sign as some of the ones they see used in print advertising where you can hold it in your hand & take as long as you want to read it isn't effective for signs when they generally have 3-5 seconds to read it.
I agree with Raymond, no one sits at my computer & scrolls through the fonts (except me). I don't have color samples on display either. Last week I did pull out the pantone chart as a customer was ordering a sign for her parent's house and I had her pick the color of the house so I knew what I was working with. Other that that, the guide stays in the drawer.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
A customer requesting a specific font is apparently a very irritating request for many sign designers. I'm wondering what the reason would be. Intimidation? What is so threatening about that request? If the customer has something specific in mind, I want to know up front before I waste a lot of time going in the wrong direction.
I would simply ask what font they want to use and why. The reason may be valid, or it may not. When a customer makes requests, they have generally seen something elsewhere that they like. I ask them to bring examples if they have something in mind. If I think there is a problem with their choice, I will politely tell them my reason. I might point out problems with contrast, or scale. Some customers aren't willing to bend, but I find them to be the very small minority. Most will listen to reason, if I give them a good reason.
Also, just because the customer requests something, doesn't mean I can't present them with something else along side of it. I have had customers choose designs that completely contradict what they have requested. When they see their design next to several others, they change their mind. Does this mean the customers are stupid? Nope. They have sense enough to choose a more attractive option.
There are so many ways to solve the same problem. It's especially nice if I can take the customer's requests and fit them into a solution that really works. Then we both end up happy.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Do they have fonts to work with? The rest is... "Vectors by You"!
[ May 13, 2006, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: Stephen Deveau ]
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
quote:A customer requesting a specific font is apparently a very irritating request for many sign designers. I'm wondering what the reason would be. Intimidation? What is so threatening about that request? If the customer has something specific in mind, I want to know up front before I waste a lot of time going in the wrong direction.
Russ, the point isn't suggestions made by the client but rather letting them sit down and go through every font at my disposal.
Frankly, who has time for it? I don't feel intimidated by people asking for a specific font for the job. I don't get intimidated by much at all, especially when dealing with clients.
I do, however, get annoyed when a non-artist client honestly thinks that they know more about what I do because the have Photo Shop on their home computer.
I would never dream of going to an auto mechanic and tell him how to repair my vehicle or a doctor and tell him how to do his job as well. It does amuse me that some of those people would have no trouble telling me how to make a sign, though... LOL!
It all boils down to the fact that people can now produce awfully bad stuff in Word and they think it is just awesome. Our skills have become trivialized because we, as a collective whole, have let them. I don't.
Posted by lolita leblanc (Member # 3453) on :
Like Raymond says I don't have fonts on display either, I did at one time and it only gave problems because often the font they choosed dosen't look good for the lenght or size of the sign.
I usually tell them that it's my job to suggest fonts, and will e-mail them 3 styles to choose from.
After I select a shape to draw around the type style choosen, and again let them see it and usually this is the best way to settle the font problem for me.
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
Russ does have some good points like saving time and creative solutions, but Bruce is right about the annoying thing. I saw John Deaton in SC magazine yesterday (way to go John). Did anyone make a post about that? I've been gone for more than a week.
Anyway, John's comments got me thinking. He considers himself a 'design focused sign shop' or something like that. I started pondering this very topic about clients who think they're designers. So maybe I could come up with a line of questioning like this: Are you familiar with what a business plan is? (if no:) It's a plan you write out when you're starting a business, maybe getting a business loan, it spells out your goals for the business as far as what products and services you'll offer, what market you'll try to reach, and so on. At that point I might ask what they plan for their own business. Listen intently, this could be useful design wise. Then, tell them about a few of MY goals, high on the list is the desire not to produce homemade artwork, or something to that effect.
I was just pondering it, might be a very clear yet gentle way of getting the point across Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :
If this happens, I usually type out about five samples of their copy (the ones I like along with a weaker one that I don't see useful) and then tell them to step across the room to visualize how it would look from a distance. They always pick the most legible one and if they want something more unique than the four I've chosen, I then charge a bit for my time, and tell them so. The legibility factor usually does the trick, as it brings more business into the equation. $$$$$ for them and less hassle for me.
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
I show them a sample of 3 letter 'types' block, roman and script... I usually get a good idea what they like from that and also gives me a bit of freedom. Print out a sheet with 2 of each... A light face and a bold face... serif, san-serif, script and just for fun a few gothic styles... no more than 8 styles. Just to give them an 'idea' of what they might get... if they want more specific choices, thats when I mention our design fee, most people will pick from the sheet and say "something like this one, but bolder"
Posted by Brad Ferguson (Member # 33) on :
just bumping.
Posted by Michael Boone (Member # 308) on :
I see Ferguson has really progressed
Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
oh god...a customer wants to pick out fonts. give them on of your 10,000 fonts on cd....and they will never come back they will be so perplexed it will keep them busy for several weeks.
but it would be fun to see what they come up with
Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
If they are trying to match an existing business card, or if they have a fleet lettered in a particular font, I just use it.
If they fancy themselves to be designers just because they have a computer, I ask why they like that particular font. If it's legible, I just use it. If it really sucks, but they still want that font, I use it anyway. Life is too short to argue with an idiot.
There is a sense of intimidation or rivalry sometimes, as Russ mentioned. Sometimes I secretly think "Who are YOU to tell ME what to do, little man?" Sometimes someone will drive up in a vehicle lettered by another shop that looks pretty slick. Other times they'll be carrying a reallly crappy corosign from some licky-sticky.
Most people are open to suggestion, and I tell them that I have a pretty good eye after doing this for 21 years. I no longer scroll through umpteen fonts like I did in ages past. Most people can decipher what is readable from the illegible. It is hard to trust someone, and their sign is usually pretty important to them. I have them look through my portfolio or do a thumbnail for them on the spot, to get a feel for what they'd like.
On the other hand, the few die-hard "designers" will argue to the end that they know what is best. In that case, I make their sign with their crappy font choice, take their money (usually charging a minor nuisance fee of say $25) and don't autograph my work. Just had to do this last night for a rude SOB who had an absolutely hideous layout.
love....jill
Posted by Carl Wood (Member # 1223) on :
good answer Jill - I have rearely had people ask for specific font - usually Engineers & advertising types still wet behind the ears pull that - I have no patience for them - I educate them quickly & tell them there will be an up-charge for something I don't have - Iff'n they can't live with my lay-out I can alter it slightly to fit their tastes usually pretty easily - after that they are FIRED ! ! !
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