ANY GUESS ON HOH MUCH GOLD LEAF BOOKS IT WOULD TAKE TO COVER THIS EAGLE IT IS 4' WIDE AND ABOUT 4.5' TALL. I BELIEVE IT IS MADE FROM BASS WOOD. ANY SPECIAL TIPS FOR PREPING THE WOOD. I THINK THAT THIS WOULD BE A NEAT PROJECT TO BRING TO MASS MAYHEM. Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
James, Here's how I do it. Take a piece of paper 3"x3" not 3 3/8"x3 3/8". Now simply hold it up to the piece and "Count" how many squares it will take to cover the front, then double for the back. Don't skimp, overlap but about 1/4 sheet each. Just looking, my guess is 12 s.f. About $540. These 3-D pieces or any curved surfaces take more gold sometimes, like the head. The wings are fairly flat. ($40 s.f.) I do this on a regular basis. $45 per s.f. not counting primer coat or shellac to seal it. Buy gold buy the pack. Have fun or don't do it. John
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
I would buy a pack of gold from art essentials of NY. I would prime and paint with a good oil base paint, spray on a coat of slow set size and gild like crazy the next day. I did a similar project for the city of Salem awhile ago and I think gold and labor I charged them 900 and some odd bucks.
Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on :
Ken, How do you SPRAY on slow size...its just so thick.
Posted by Steve Purcell (Member # 1140) on :
I'll guess about 21-23 books.
[ April 27, 2006, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Steve Purcell ]
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
Laura, I reduced it with mineral spirits and sprayed it with a automotive touch up gun. a nice even thin coat is better for a good gild.
Steve, I would guess less, 18-22 books
Jim, It would be a cool, but big project for Mass Mayhem. I am sure we could get it done, just bring lots of gold and slow size. We could spray it Friday night, and gild it Saturday, we could have 3-4 people gilding too. acutally would go quick. What is the final use for it?
[ April 27, 2006, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: captain ken ]
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
Jim,
You have probably already thought of this......but just in case....This is a job for patent leaf.
Joe,
Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
Posted by Linda Silver Eagle (Member # 274) on :
That is a beautiful piece you have there! How long did it take to carve?
Posted by Bill Burris (Member # 3570) on :
Jim Please bring the eagle to Tewksbury will be a great hit and good education for anyone who has not done this. Thanks Bill
Posted by Steve Racz (Member # 4376) on :
Joe, my opinion would be to use loose leaf - too many nooks and crannies for patent...
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
quote:Originally posted by Steve Racz: Joe, my opinion would be to use loose leaf - too many nooks and crannies for patent...
Loose would make the job go much faster too.
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
I agree with Joe... patent leaf
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
Here's my thinking.....
This puppy is 4ft+ x 4ft+. I can't think of a way to move this around to get at everything without getting my hands on the size. Gravity is gonna take a huge toll of gold on the entire underside of this bird if you use loose gold. Except inside the mouth, most of the details are pretty rounded including the valleys betweet the feathers. Using patent applied with a short haired stiff brush (pushing from the paper side), there shouln't be too many holidays. Steve....don't you remember the demo that Phil Ghi did at the Chisel Jam? He uses patent for all his incised letters.
Hey, I'm not paying for the gold....I'm just saying this is very doable with patent....IMO
You could also go with a combination of loose and patent....just make sure it's the same brand.
BTW, Good pics Jim...that really helps the discussion.
Joe,
Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
[ April 28, 2006, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Joe Cieslowski ]
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
No one has adressed the 2nd part of Jims question.....finishing it prior to gilding.
If it's raw wood....two primer coats (laytex or oil), sand smooth then 3 coats of 1Shot thinned with reducer and hardner added. Let's paint it RED....so we can spot the holidays.
That's one way.
It looks like there is something on it already. That could change things.
Joe,
Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
Posted by james chrimes (Member # 5864) on :
Thanks for the help. I mostly use patent leaf on my projects. The eagle sits on a stand that leaves it so that you can turn it without it falling. I did not carve it. It was carved buy an annomus person in our area. He did a wonderful job on it. Now that I have an idea of price I can tell the client and proceed.Thanks for all of your help.
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
Hey Joe,
quote:Originally posted by captain ken: I would prime and paint with a good oil base paint, spray on a coat of slow set size
Jim, I talked to Gary and it's cool to do it at Mass Mayhem
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
Sorry I missed that Capt!
Joe,
Makin Chips and havin Fun!
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
" Gravity is gonna take a huge toll of gold on the entire underside of this bird if you use loose gold."
Joe, I don't see a problem at all, the bird is mostly vertical. Rolling the loose leaf out of the book would be pretty easy on 98% of the bird. The only problem area I see would be the mouth.
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
I'm firmly in the loose-leaf camp on this one.
I wish I could be there. I'd size this chicken with some of my Hastings Yellow Oil Size (don't ask, it's not available; my can sat on a shelf for twenty years), wipe most of it off, gild her with loose leaf and a tip on a tack you can't even feel - and that bitch would be so bright she'd be effin illegal! Posted by Michael Boone (Member # 308) on :
Hay...I got a can of Hastings as well and a full unopened 1/2 pint of Heins dualing sizes!
Posted by Steve Purcell (Member # 1140) on :
The carving certainly looks shallow enough to use patent & a brush.
But I'd rather blast it out in loose & let the customer pay for all the skewings
Definately, a generous, well cured foundation will increase the luster.
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
Leave it to a Computer Geek to convert Johns formula for figuring Gold..I was Board waiting for a client. Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on :
Ken,
How long does the gild hold up when you spray. and when 12 hr is reduced and sprayed, how long, on the average, before its ready to gild?
[ April 29, 2006, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: Laura Butler ]
Posted by Kimmy Fitzgerald (Member # 5109) on :
[ April 29, 2006, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: Kimmy Fitzgerald ]
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
Laura, It is kind of along the same theory as Cam's wipe of technique, the thinner the layer of size, the better and shinnier the gild. I used mineral spirits to reduce it at about 6pm and started gilding at 8am, it stayed open until about 6-7pm, I think if I was going to do it again I might use OS low temp reducer, just so I know it is evaporating quickly.
Bill, I have to ask... with your 2D model and computer formula, have we got an estimate on "gold leaf quantity"?.... that is, after all the question at hand. If we do it at Mass Mayhem maybe we can have a pool, closest guess on how many sheet, without going over, wins.
[ April 29, 2006, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: captain ken ]
Posted by james chrimes (Member # 5864) on :
Ken if we do this at Mass Mayhem I will supply anything needed. Gold, size, anything you would suggest that I bring.
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
Ken, By using the Formula Hellifiknow. (AxB/PI*R Square/tangent of the coefficient of friction of the bass wood vs adding the current wind speed of Venezuela and dividing by the Exchange rate of gold as of close on Friday night in Zambezi.) I would venture to say. 12 to 13 Books.
Hope this helps. Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
I think somewhere around half a pack, and I'd definatly use loose leaf...surface, double thick.
Posted by Doug Bernhardt (Member # 1568) on :
I wouldn't even think of doing this in patent leaf (sorry Joe)...waaaayyy too much work. Loose is the only way to go when it comes to large dimensional letters and carvings. Should be able to size this at 3pm and finish the gilding between 9am and noon next day. The finishing as mentioned previously with a couple coats of 1-shot after a proper priming is good sound advice.
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
got a guess on how much gold Doug?
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
Well,
We have one bird with two wings, hmmmmm?
It certainly would be educational to do one wing with patent and one with loose and compare which is the most economical in regards to amount of gold used and application time.
Would this be possible to do??
Would the gilds match?
Just thinking out loud.....
Joe,
Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
Your gilds won't match, Joe. Loose gold can be adhered to much less tacky size than patent, and will ultimately polish out brighter.
But, hey, if you are wanting to do comparisons, carve another bird and do them side by side. Then you know for sure. You can raffle off the extra bird to defray the costs.
Let me know how it works out. I'll be in Scotland gilding some bigass letters for Stewart, and I'm sure there will be pics.
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
Oh Well.....It was just a thought.
BTW, Thanks for the rediculous suggestion.
Joe,
Makin Chips and havin Fun!
Posted by Steve Purcell (Member # 1140) on :
This particular carving could be gilded quite successfully with patent or loose. Either way, it will be a boring, tedious excercise.
I would go with loose, even though it will consume considerably more gold, because I'd just want to get it done quickly.
Even with the loose, you'll need some patent to chase the holidays.
High burnish on a piece like that is overrated, imho. I'd prefer a nice soft glow.
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
Steve are you coming to Mass Mayhem?
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
follow up: Jim brought the bird to Mass Mayhem with a nice coat of white paint on it. We sized it up and sprayed it on Saturady night about 10pm and Sunday 3-4 guys applied just about 18 books of gold in about 2+ hours.
[ May 21, 2006, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: captain ken ]
Posted by Steve Purcell (Member # 1140) on :
Looks like you win the cee-gar Cap'n!
Waydago! Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
NIce! That's not something I've ever attempted, even on a smaller scale.
(were there any difficulties? what kind of brush do you use to 'poke' the leaf into cavities & crevices ?)
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