Back in 2000, I remember posting about a customer changing their mind on a logo I started for them. They put down 40% and for some reason, communication stopped and I didn't hear from them again. I had done proofs and had gone back and forth. It was my assumption they may have simply changed their mind. This customer was nervous at the get go of the project for he didn't know what he wanted and he was apprehensive about paying someone to figure that out for him.
It's now 2006 and his office has JUST contacted me and asked if there could be a reimursement for at least some of his deposit. (LOL) He did not use any of my designwork I did for him. (I just checked his website)
To begin with, I didn't offer him an hourly rate, but a contracted price. His deposit covered sending proofs to him. He chose not to use what he recieved and moved on.
If I went purely by hour, I could say I owe him $100, even though that's not how the contract read. Obviously the idea was to carry the project to the end result.
In a good faith gesture, I could offer him the $100, and hope that our biz could still prosper somehow from him in the future. I'm doubtful though, we haven't even been in contact for 6 years.
In a proper biz sence though, to me my sketches and communication were within a reasonable $ amount for the deposit that was made. That is why I allowed the contract to be null and void and didn't request further payment.
I'm debating saying so with perhaps if there was any future vehicle lettering within 2006, perhaps I could offer a discount of some sort to offset the logo investment. I just don't want to come across that he was overcharged.
I feel badly for the end result to finish like this.
Your thoughts?
Posted by Carl Wood (Member # 1223) on :
Donna - seems like 6 years is a little long & very petty of them - I would politely decline to refund any funds but would do their work with another deposit. . .
Posted by Steve Eisenreich (Member # 1444) on :
I think I would laugh and laugh and say to them that after six years they can not be serious. Next thing they will want interest.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
I can see them saying they are finally ready to move ahead on the project, well not really, but wanting the deposit back is even weirder. I think the statute of limitations would have run out in anyone's book by now.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I would really wonder if this is a serious inquiry, & would hesitate to put anything in writing. I would tell them that to reopen the file would cost you time & money. If they want to invest time in visiting you at your shop, then maybe you might have time to look into the file & discuss it face to face. Then I would tell them it was writtent off as a loss already, so they are free from further obligation, & express an interest in keeping the door open for further work together.
Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
Quite often our contracts don't make it all the way to completion. Our projectts are complex... many things can happen ... financing doesn;t go through, can't get zoning... whatever.
If I take a deposit for design and I do the preliminary design and the customer halts it... I get to keep the money.
If I have done more work than the deposit pays off I then bill for the extra at a fair rate.
A deposit is just that... its a retainer to buy your ideas and time. And it's non-refundable no matter what.
After 6 years I wouldn't sweat it. I don't think it is fair they do either.
-grampa dan
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
i wouldn't refund a dime! the freakin freakshows...6 years...gimmme a king kong break the size of china!
Posted by Dan Antonelli (Member # 86) on :
Donna-
This may be helpful for you in the future. It spells out deliverables, and 'kill' fees, etc. Lays it all of for them so that expectations are clear. My attorney wrote it up - havent had one person refuse to sign it.
Donna, its silly for them to think you owe them anything. They paid a deposit, you rendered a service and they failed to follow through without explaination.
Something tells me he's in financial trouble and is looking for any possible sources of money. No one simply comes back after six years looking for a partial refund on a deposit.
.
Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
"I'm debating saying so with perhaps if there was any future vehicle lettering within 2006, perhaps I could offer a discount..." ------------------------- Do what??? Let's see if I have this right:
1. Client did not follow-thru original job; in fact, 2. He used somebody else's product, and now 3. He wants a refund.
That's 3 strikes. You would give him 4? Occasionally you come across a hustler tactic that is truly breath-taking. It's like telemarketing and spam: Try something totally outrageous, decency be damned. It may offend 999,999 people, but maybe there's 1 in a million who will believe anything. The desperate have nothing to lose. Since you asked, I'd tell this scavenger to keep on looking.
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Donna, the brunt of the work involved in logo design is the creative thought process ... the ideas. You've done and presented that work for them. Whether or not they actually put those ideas to use is a moot point. They very well could have. In either case, you lived up to your end of the bargain and gave them creative time for a fee.
Nettie
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Actually Dan S., the word "retainer" has a nice ring to it. I feel that it implies a higher standard than a "refundable" deposit. I'm going to start using that one And Donna, I probably would have laughed out loud if a client asked me a question like that. When you added up your hours, did you figure your full profit into the job too? When dealing with contracts and change orders, by law you are entitled to full payment of profit that you expected from that job, even if the client down-sizes or reduces the scope of the project. So, if you intended to make a $100 profit off the completed design, you are entitled to keep it.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
retainer Definition
A partial fee paid in advance for professional services.
Donna, I read your post & had to look at the date again. Sounded like April Fools Day to me.
You didn't overcharge him, refunding anything would give the impression that you did. You provided what was spelled out in the contract, correct?
After this much time, it was either accounted for totally wrong and a new accountant is trying to get his books straight or he's hurting for money.
Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
You should have horse laughed them Donna. Thats freakin' stupid of them.
Posted by Tony Vickio (Member # 2265) on :
I'd send them a letter with a lot of the what you posted above in it. 6 years is way too much time for them to even consider a response from you.
If the letter fails........call Dick Cheney!!
Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
Totally bizare. But I've had it happen too. If you seriously think there is a possibilty of getting some work from them I would give them a $100 credit towards their next order. Make sure you get a deposit and payment on completion with whatever that is.
Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
Donna, This has happeded to me too. After I told the guy no, the next morning I found the back window of my pick-up shot out! Simply explain to him that you already spent the time on the projest, that is what deposits are for. I would not spend any more time in thought about a loosing project like this one. Next!
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
LOL!!
Six years!!
I think I'd be tellin' them they owed YOU a contractual 'stoppin'-in-mid-stream' fee for every month they never made a decision!
I'm just curious, Did'nt you ever keep tryin' to call them back or anything??
Posted by James McLain (Member # 4877) on :
I don't think you owe them anything!
I like your idea of giving them a $100 credit toward NEW WORK though. Getting new work out of the deal for a $100 discount sounds reasonable.
Simply giving back $100 for nothing is out of the question in my opinion.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Write him a check for the $100 if you feel that is fair....
....but date it for February 16th, 2012.
Just an idea... Rapid
Posted by jake snow (Member # 5889) on :
If you feel the need to give them the $100, do it to clear your mind.
But I would send it to them in unrolled pennies, covered in goat droppings, in a 100 condoms, the lubricated kind, tied in knots, filled with water(so the droppings would float), incased in several porn tape cases, the freaky kind, in a bright orange box with a label that said "Beastality r us"
just for the fun of it Posted by Mark M. Kottwitz (Member # 1764) on :
quote:Originally posted by jake snow: If you feel the need to give them the $100, do it to clear your mind.
But I would send it to them in unrolled pennies, covered in goat droppings, in a 100 condoms, the lubricated kind, tied in knots, filled with water(so the droppings would float), incased in several porn tape cases, the freaky kind, in a bright orange box with a label that said "Beastality r us"
just for the fun of it
Jake, do you happen to keep that stuff in a locked storage cabinet in the back of your shop? You know, just in case an occasion like this comes up?
Yeah, I wouldn't give any portion of the deposit back if they backed out at any time, much less 6 years later.
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Bill's right!
Why not turn it into an opportunity for a sale? Put a dollar figure on it..."$100 credit toward your next purchase of $1000". For all you know, he might tell a pile of people how fair you are and send more business your way - and what does it cost you, really?
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
Thanks for all your suggestions.
Sheila, yes, of course I have. I gave up after so long. The ball was left in their court. I'm not my client's mother after all!
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Jake, do you happen to keep that stuff in a locked storage cabinet in the back of your shop? You know, just in case an occasion like this comes up?