Material Safety Data Sheets are supposed to be kept on file by everyone in business.
The question is (for those who have been down this road with a run in from OSHA) Do you have to have a MSDS for EVERY product in the shop?
I'm talking things like: Windex, WD40, Lysol Spray, Comet toilet bowel cleaner, wood glue...stuff you would buy at a local store.
We found a place on the web where you can download just about any MSDS (except they didn't have Stryospray 715 which I need)
Thanks for any experienced info. I'm gettng a little paranoid these days as we expand, and I need to make sure my butt is covered.
[ February 14, 2006, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Dave Draper ]
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Windex ?
Roger
Posted by Steve Eisenreich (Member # 1444) on :
From what I read you do not need MSDS on consumer products if they are used by your employees just like consumers but if it is someones job to clean windows then you would need an MSDS on Windex. You should be able to get the MSDS from your supplier for the StyroSpray® 715.
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
It totally depends on how much of an a-hole whoever comes in to inspect is and how communistic the municipality is about it. If they see something sitting on the shelf they can easily decide that youre storing it not using it and demand an msds on it. I would keep msds on everything you have in the shop both on a cd and paper copy. Pain in the ass,but it also covers your ass,and in the event they crack on you for something you might not happen to have a sheet on they may let you slide for being so thorough with the rest or it may give you an avenue of appeal if they decide to still slam you for it.
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
Roger,rapid tac, yeah, were going to need your MSDS also or quit using it. Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Roger
Could you post MSDS sheets somewhere in a PDF format that we can download and print?
Oh yea...., there are still some uses for Windex? Posted by John Largent (Member # 4606) on :
Hmmm, lessee. Do you need to comply?
If . . you have over 10 employees, counting yourself, Yes. Less than this, NO.
ALL compounds that are used by the employees must have MSDS sheets on hand. Even if that employee provides it. As the Employer, you are responsible for all the materials and equipment your employees use. And your suppliers should have MSDS sheets on hand. In some cases you might have to go to the manufacturers web site and download them from there.
Contrary to popular belief, OSHA (nor State in most instances) does not just "Show Up" one day and take a tour of your operation. They must be "Invited" either by an accident that requires first aid and emergency equipment, a Workman's Comp claim, or an employee filing a complaint.
Then you get the "Full Monty" . . there is no such thing as a "Might be an Asshole" Inspector . . OSHA inspections look at EVERYTHING that your business must comply with and some you might not be familiar with. If you work with any scaffolding, look out, they'll go over your scaffolding and ladders (one of their sore points, excavations are the other) with a fine tooth comb, and all labels, stickers and tags had better be there. Same with rigging and chains.
Another Quickie, You are responsible for the actions (and equipment and supplies) of your sub-contractors also, if you are the prime contractor.
My recommendation would be to hire a one time consultant to do a "Walk through" and write up all the corrections that must be made to comply. Often your insurance Company will do this for you. If your company falls under OSHA these "Walk Throughs" can be big time money savers. If you are ever written up by OSHA, even if you "Negotiate Down" a fine, the trips and days spent doing this usually cost you a bunch. And they'll never let you slide completely, you're still gonna have to write a check!
Been there and done that.
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hiya Dave, The simple answer is yes. It's better to have too much info than not enough. OSHA can make your life miserable and shut you down if you don't have the proper docmentation. Another thing you'll need to consider is when you're on a job site. You're classified as a mobile shop and you'll need a book with you in vehicle and on-site too. So, while you're getting the MSDS sheets, you're better off getting several copies.
Haivin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
Store bought cleaners should already have this on the bottle or can.
Posted by James McLain (Member # 4877) on :
I'm not entirely sure about OHSA not just showing up one day, because that is exactly what happened to a friend of mine running a 10-12 man shop a few miles from me. The agents claimed they picked his shop at random from a pool of companies with the same SIC code.
He wouund up with in excess of $17,000 in fines. I found this amazing since this guy runs a tight ship and a spotless ship. You could practically eat off this guy's shop floor and OSHA still found lots to complain about!
[ February 14, 2006, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: James McLain ]
Posted by John Largent (Member # 4606) on :
There's always a remote possibility that they were just going by and something about the guy's operation P*ssed 'em off . . It has happened, but very rarely. OSHA inspectors are spread so thin and funded so sparse, they are almost always on an inspection call. I'd bet on an unhappy employee. "Payback!"
I do know of three instances where the inspectors were going to another inspection and happend to notice serious infractions in a couple of the instances, and one, just nit picking . .
The nit picking one was in Grand junction, CO. United Companies had a biiiig Gravel Pit adjacent to Hwy 50/Bus 70 and the inspectors were driving by as the 966 loader operator got off the machine to walk to the Porta Pot in the middle of the pit. Now we're talking about a clear area of about 10 acres, with the Cat out in the middle. They wrote him for not wearing his hard hat. Cost United Companies $15k after three appeals.
And yes, your friend did get off cheap, as minimums are usually in the $100k range. Sounds like he "negotiated" down. That is your right, you know.
The OSHA act covers 49 volumes, and the index is available (as are the books) from any U.S. Government Printing Store. I recommend obtaining the index and the volumes that cover your business particular. It might also help to have a 40 hour OSHA course as you're the Business owner.
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
There does exist such thing as an "asshole inspector". Inspectors whether from OSHA or local agencies have latitude and discretion in choosing whether or not to hold you in violation and cite you for a fine or issue you a warning and give you a time period under which you must come into compliance,in some cases the time period is required.....usualy they are hardline hardasses because they are greeted with poor attitudes from inspectees. If they walk into a neat shop,noone is smoking over a thinner can next to a pilot light, msds sheets,paint cabinets,fire extinguishers and first aid kits etc are where theyre supposed to be,and you do not argue with them or ask them what they are doing at every step and turn,they are far more likely to be lenient. Answer only what they ask,dont volunteer extra information,give them excuses,sobstories or anything else and do not follow them around the shop. Dont even speak to them while they are there,pretend like you couldnt care less that they are there and just go about your daily business,like you couldnt possibly have anything to hide so you dont care......also dont start tidying up things while they are there. I used to have to endure this crap 4x's a year......before anyone here with less than 5 people working for them becomes concerned about OSHA,what should be more in the forefront of your priorities is being in compliance with state and local agencies motivated to please people who justify their existance by caring more about 9toed anus bugs than doing business.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
A couple things, first, Rapid product MSDS are downloadable from website (www.rapidtac.com) just click on MSDS,its a free Adobie.
Randy, there is far tooooo much info. required to print on even a LARGE label.
I called the OSHA folks to my place of manufacture for a inspection, it shows consideration and a FREE pass on problem areas, they attached moniters to my employees to measure the amounts of chemical exposure they received in a day as well as the usual "looking for violations", luckily we were under the threshold for thr restricted chemicals, and very tidy and cautious on other work related issues.
Gives you a chance to get to know your accusers before they accuse you, and score some good points.
Roger
Posted by John Largent (Member # 4606) on :
Roger, the OSHA people in your area sound like they have their ducks in a row. Here in Colorado they're spread far too thin to do "Preventative inspections" but generally will refer you to a consultant.
I found, over the years, with over 65 employees in the Construction Business, that "Passive Compliance" was very effective. However, one of the requirements that we operated under, was that all employees and sub contract employees had to have a 40 hour OSHA course prior to being on the job. That helped. But it doesn't guarantee you to be free from "lapses of stupidity", after all, we employ Humans, and they do strange things, for strange reasons.
But, during a "Post Incident Inspection" an OSHA inspector is all business, if he sees an infraction, he'll write it, with no time for explanation nor allowance for correction. It has nothing to do with personality, but what their SOP is. And it does no good to try to talk to an inspector other than answer his questions intelligently and honestly.
Although no one here is involved in Basic Industries, MSHA on the other hand, will make suggestions, allow on the spot corrections (they still write you) and their fines are far smaller, depending upon the infraction, of course. Just a comparison of two similar Government agencies.
One more thing, and Roger made that point, OSHA will answer questions and when able, provide information for the business owner, without showing up and writing you for a Gazillion Bucks worth of fines.
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