I think my favorite/most despised line is: "Most sign work is LETTERS ONLY. Even if you have NO ARTISTIC TALENT, you can MAKE LOTS OF MONEY!!"
SO thats why they call it VYNULL...
B
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
I'm gonna hurl....
"Yes ,you too can become another of the many sign shops that go belly up in no time becuase you think this self help video is going to make you rich without any backround in color theory, design, layout, font identification or basic motor skills. Just order now and our certified sign specialist, Lance Bubbles, will show you how to slap red and black vinyl on in no time at all. Order now and for no extra cost, we'll sell your name to as many bulk mailing lists as possible, thus making sure that your name "gets out there". Act now for this free promotional bonus. Also included is a huge list of business names that all start with the letter "a" to insure that your right up on the top of the list in the phone book. Why work for a living when you can prentend to? CALL NOW!!!"
Rapid
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
I seem to recall we exposed this get rich quick scheme before here about a year or two ago. Nothing new there. The only one making six figures is the guy that's smart enough to sell the video.
Posted by Teresa Bostic (Member # 6214) on :
Wish I'd learned it all in 90 minutes. Maybe I'm a slow learner?
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Thanks for the link, Barry! I just ordered my video.
Doncha just love it? Hey, maybe I can send one of those videos to one of my competitors....it woul;d be an improvment for him.
Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
Don't let them fool ya. I had to watch the tape thre, no theer no Three ya thats it three times before I could open up my own shop. Hey,did you know that if you lay another color of vinyl on top of another and you slip it makes a drop shadow. Maybe Iam advanced but, I still am going to wait for tape #2 Advanced Sign Graphics Techniques, they probably go into that in depth and I don't want to get ahead of myself. Posted by Tim Whitcher (Member # 685) on :
If you want a good laff, read the forums! Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
Sam, I haven't got my video yet. What's a drop shadow?
Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
Gosh, them guys is dumb. I already got Corel. If I copy the layouts and elements from their web page, I can at least be a graffick artiste for free.
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
While its not the best website or forum ever seen,its far from the worst. Put aside the names next to some of the posts here and you will find similar posts,and at times posts from folks that can be quite surprising because you would assume they know better or would just do their own homework after X# of yrs in the biz. In this day and age we should applaud anyone who makes any effort to ram home the point to ANYONE entering this business (esp being self employed) that business skill is needed and you are not entitled to a certain percentage of the business because you feel you have or some friends of yours once told you that you have this great artistic talent. All too often here everyone craps on stuff like this because its easy to do so,but put a sign guy(or woman) up here,let em post a picture of something everyone thinks looks pretty and have em declare their wish that their last name was sawatzsky,and let them complain about their boss and there will be no end to the number that tells them "you have talent you should be on your own"......regardless of the fact that the largest percentage of this type do not have any desire to deal with nor even the knowledge of taxes,cost of goods,profit percentages,deadlines,employee egos or any of the other day to day business things necessary for being self employed without getting in over your own head....... and we also ignore the fact,rather just dont mention it,that more than likely everyone would be shocked at the actual prices these folks work for just trying to make ends meet. Encouraging someone to enter into a business because they have the talent but not the business sense is the exact same thing as encouraging someone who has the business sense but not the talent whether anyone wants to believe that or not.......and in the end,the former is going to struggle,lowball and seem bitter about their chosen business far more often than the latter.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
"even if you have no artist's talent, you can make lots of money" Why is he wrong? That is a true statement. The video is reasonably priced also, about what it's worth I presume.
I have seen crap advice sold here by merchants that everyone went ga-ga over. From what I have seen, mostly useless advice.
Posted by Randy W. Robarge (Member # 2022) on :
That's fine that they sell their how-to video, but to state that "most sign work is letters only" is such an outrageous statement. Even the pictures they show on their website have graphic elements in them.
I also like how they give an example after that statement - Most Sign Work is Letters Only (i.e. A,B,C) hahahaha I got a good chuckle out of that.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
LOL Bob . . .
Reminds me of those vague radio commercials:
"Call now if YOU want to be finacially INDEPENDENT! - Don't delay! Learn how hundreds of people just like you doubled, yes even trippled, and QUADRUPLED their income without ever leaving home!! Call now toll free 1-800-.....!!"
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Just for the record:
All my sign advice comes with a 100% money back guarantee. If for any reason, anyone is ever disatisfied with my advice.....Please email me and I'll send you a refund form.
Edit: Oh, and if after watching the video you make a buck - it's sheer luck.
[ February 09, 2006, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
I'm impressed by the brand of plotter- "DingTech"- sounds like an accident that's either waiting to happen, or has just happened Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
I have gotten over 400 new visits to my www.SignTrainer.com website in the last 5 days, and traced many of them back to this thread. Thanks for the exposure but here are a few FACTS that you seem to have missed.
This 90 minute Sign Shop Training Video teaches Beginners how to operate software, design, choose colors & fonts, measure the job, weed, apply (wet and dry),run the cutters, pick a business name, deal with bubbles, establish prices,an a lot more. This is a lot info for a small price.
When I state in my training video that " ..from MY EXPERIENCE, most sign work is ABC's not graphics art" the key words are "..MY EXPERIENCE". I cover hand tracing and node editing briefly in the training video and my own graphics skills are very sharp ... but ... most of my work is still ABCs. I am certain that many others share this same trend, while the rest can honestly say THEIR EXPERIENCES are different.
Your remarks seem to paint me out to be a fraud/manipulator/conman or something of that sort. I have sold about 226 of these in the last 2.5 years, with ZERO complaints. If I ever had someone who felt I cheated or mislead them about this training video, I would be all over them with ways to make it up to them ...and then some !!!
If you and anyone else who is interested, cares to look at my e-bay ad at:
.. you will see that my words are realistic, and that I have 100% POSITIVE FEEDBACK. All of my customers are happy with this training video. The difference is .. THEY have seen and learned from it ...You guys have NOT! You just sit around and pick at it, even though you have ZERO knowledge of it's content. I cannot stop you, if that is really all you want to do, but I can explain it better for those who read your posts and get a false impression.
If I was selling, or promising, false expectations, SOMEONE ( or a LOT of someones ) would have caught on and my feedback would reflect it.
I have 10 yrs in signs, an additional 5 yrs in newspaper publishing and ad layout, and a total span of 20 yrs in shirt printing. I don't think, with all that experience, that is is such a surprise that someone like me could come up with a training video that WORKS.
My video does not create ill-prepared HACKS. It has enough information and examples to train a formidable competitor for anyone who is reading this. I don't hear consistantly from EVERYONE who has bought my training video, but, through my own User Forum, I have heard from enough to know that they are out there making money, apparently well trained in enough phases to make their customers happy, and certainly happy with ME !!
I do not teach people to undercut prices, and if they pay attention to all I teach, they will certainly not be throwing out SHODDY work.
I have read a number of posts on this forum, and others, and many HELPFUL sign people make MANY attempts to help MANY others. The only difference between them and me is that I have made it into a complete course, not just bits and pieces.
It was never meant to be a punishing blow to the sign industry, or an attempt to hurt/deceive or rip off anyone. It was/is a small ... but proud project that has survived for this long. I am actually thinking about a screen printing version also .. so just imagine how many new people can be mad at me then.
I hope this explains my position and clarifies some of the incorrect posts made by a few who seem very threatened by this training video. Oh yeah ... if your business cannot achieve 6 figures, perhaps you should order one .. it's not too late!!
Richard www.SignTrainer.com "Sign Shop Training Videos for Beginners" Tampa Fl 813-814-7611 also www.AABestSigns.com Posted by Denis de Leon (Member # 5844) on :
I can't wait until the guy around the corner opens up his store using this stuff. There goes the neighborhood.
regards, denis
Posted by Tim Whitcher (Member # 685) on :
Richard, It's easy to dupe disillusioned people, who, by the way, will praise you all the way to bankruptcy (ever watch an info-mercial?). But can you sleep at night? If you're program is so great, why not enlighten the sign industry and advertise in the national trade magazines? You'd make millions! By the sounds of it, you're hooking enough suckers this way to add nicely to your retirement without exposing yourself to the harsh light of day. I'm proud to say that this board is not full of victims looking / waiting for the next get rich quick scheme, and I applaud Berry for exposing you.
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Tim ... Let me get this straight. You know NOTHING about my video, except that Berry (actually I think you are referring to Barry), has in your words "Exposed" me, when all I see, is that BERRY made one small criticism, which I do not see as a RIVITING ESPOSE'. What's more, I seem to have hynotized the masses with my Magical powers, that work on everyone but YOU and BERRY! I will bet that if YOU could have that type of power, you would use it ... but alas .. you do not!
Even with all that sinister power going for me and mindless masses of followers, according to YOU, if I only take YOUR advice and advertise in a nat'l trade magazine, I will somehow turn this into an honest fortune ??!!??
Tim ... you need to reduce your salt intake, and lay off the sugar. It is having an effect on your mental process.
To sum it up Tim ( and others) this is not a plot to invade your planet, or overthrow freedom... It is a small, low priced, training video that, customers are happy with, that teaches a trade. Finding 2-5 words that you feel could be stated somewhat differently, and building a whole deafening scream of rage over them, won't convince anyone not to buy ... only to look at it more closely to see what it is about. That is EXACTLY what is happening right now, and I thank you for it!
I sell this training video to established sign shops all around the country and Canada, also. They use it as a training video for new employees. Even though the equipment and software is rarely the same as their own, It does give the new employee a tremendous start in a predictable way, into techniques and terms. I guess THEY are all somehow wrong also.
To anyone who wishes to "EXPOSE" me some more I say ...DO IT ...PLEASE !!! (seriously ..do it ...Please!!)
Richard www.SignTrainer.com "Sign Shop Training Videos for Beginners" Tampa, Fl 813-814-7611 www.AABestSigns.com Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
I hope you return to read the replies to your post:
First, let me say I applaud you for posting a reply. That takes guts, so, thank you for your response.....However:
While I appreciate your point about your video being a complete resource rather than learning in bits & pieces, Barry's point is that your website paints the sign industry as a get rich quick scheme. This couldn't be farther from the truth.
First off, take a look at anybody's website here. Your's looks like a circus wagon, not at all "designed" but resembling a hack job one of our vinyl jockeys competitors might do.
Secondly: We, like many others here are not profiting six figures.... not even close. Maybe you are, good for you. That just further proves Barry's point. But, the lions share of us are doing this because we really love the craft, not to get rich. If we happen to make 100K, that's just a bonus.
edited cause I cannot spell
[ February 15, 2006, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by Tim Whitcher (Member # 685) on :
If that helps you sleep at night, to each his own. You never did answer my question; if your tape is so great, why not promote it through the proper venues? Maybe in the classifieds of "Opportunity Magazine". Posted by Ed Gregorowicz (Member # 1842) on :
"........Videos also available in TV/VCR repair, Hotel / Motel management, PC repair, Childcare, or get your G.E.D.........."
I can almost hear Sally Struther's voice even as I type this......
[ February 15, 2006, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: Ed Gregorowicz ]
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
oh boy..... Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Rick .. Thank you for the COMPLIMENTARY side of your post. I will try to clarify the rest of it here.
I state pretty clearly that this is not a get-rich-quick scam, and in my own words "a normal business with a normal business work effort". I state that " Sign Businesses CAN make 6 figure incomes". This statement is very much TRUE. Will everybody ... in every size community ... make this? Probably not... but lots do even under seemingly limited conditions. Others can be in a million + city and fail for a variety of reasons.
As far as my website goes .. I see a variety of websites that I think need improvement also .. AND I sometimes think about changing my own ... but ..there is no all-perfect model just like there is no all-perfect Resume', so I will leave it as-is, at least for NOW. Although, keep in mind that I am not selling web site training.
I very much like what I do also. I seem to be good at it, and I make good money from it, just like YOU.
Once again , I do refer you (and others) to my 100% POSITIVE feedback, and re-state that in THEIR role as my customers, they are happy. If YOU have a sign customer base that is happy with YOUR work, then do you still need the approval of the rest of the sign people in your region? I know the answer to that is "NO" !!
A simple " ..there goes the neighborhood" approach is not realistic in today's american society. Other people want to pursue THEIR work futures also, especially in a time where so many are being forced out of work by jobs being shipped overseas. I am not training burglars, or purse snatchers to do wide spread harm. I am training people to do what all of you felt free to do. If you want to be the only one doing it, you will need to buy your own island in Belize and set up a shop there, safe from competition.
Thanks for your questions Rick
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
After your 2130 posts, a few of which are "EXPOSING" me, I give detailed explainations, and FACTS, and you are at such a loss for words ..your only response is "OH BOY" !!
Shame Shame Shame Berry/Barry .... I think the only one being "EXPOSED" here is you Exposing Yourself ... get it?? A little play on words. (I have been lying in wait to use that. Thanks for the opening).
I am certain that YOU will be back with MORE clever "EXPOSING" remarks, and I will respond and others will realize just how ill-prepared you are at doing this type of battle. They will remember it long into the future, as they evaluate YOUR new gripes/complaints & witicisms.
Accept it .. your remarks were un-founded, wrong, and just trying to show yourself as being some type of GURU to be looked up to , by others. It was, no doubt, a LOT more fun criticizing me when I was not here to defend myself.... wasn't it??
I will say that you should not feel TOO bad about this failure. As you can see, I am a tough act to follow. That is ONE of the reasons my TRaining Video is so GOOD! I am good at expressing myself.
Thanks again for starting this thread ... is has really boosted my exposure. I see YOU are in the beginning of creating your OWN web site. I and others cannot wait to see your Perfect Website Approach, with Words that EVERYONE on the planet agrees with 100%. I can almost envision your choice of words being new inspiration for me, and others to use as a pattern for their own website. Oh .. that's right... you don't have it yet! These perfect words that please EVERYONE, must take considerable time to think about. Oh well, I will keep watching, and NOW .....so will OTHERS!!
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Those who can,,, Do!
Those who cannot,,, Teach!!
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
Richard,
You have to understand the mind set here, the place revolves around the premises that we strive to educate and share in order to preserve the craft of sign painting. Vinyl is a bit of a dirty word to many as it is enabling "anyone" to make signs. Unfortunately, the public is uneducated and often get taken by the price and end up a with totally inefficient product as a result. The problem with that is that it brands the industry as a whole. Lots here are struggling in todays economy, and often we lack the business sense that would make us successful or even just viable. I'm not one who has a problem with your "lessons". I came up that path (from a vinyl cutter and no idea) and have worked my way up the ladder somewhat. None of that came without a lot of homework and determination, and an incredible amount of support and information from this site. Granted I started with a fair amount of natural artistic ability. I suspect most who purchase your tapes have an initial interest or talent in that direction. It took a lot of perseverance to get where I am and I have an incredibly long way to go before I can ever catch up with some of my peers, and some simply I will never touch. I have no idea of the content of your tapes, what you do or don't teach. Your advertisements for your tapes, do in my opinion underplay the essence of this business, the anyone can do it mentality is definitely harmful to what we believe and strive for. The insinuation that anyone can do something I have spent 15 years honing is insulting. I can only imagine how it rings to those who have not only spent a lifetime perfecting their skills, but are carrying on family traditions. Thus the ridicule.... That being said, I think you are a business man who has stirred up a few artistic temperaments. I do not consider the tapes as a threat to me or others here, in order to survive in this business you need a desire to be here. This Website is an incredible tool for those who are serious and passionate about what they do. I suspect most who try the "get rich quick" scheme will soon move on when the bubble bursts. Nothing said here is directed to you as a person, you come across as being pretty level headed about this. Just my take on the situation from one who "fell" into the business.
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
Okay....I may have to change some of my opinion....You will not impress anyone by getting into a fight with the residents here. Although I realize it was you who was first attacked, you could stand to learn a lot by playing nice. If you are just here to throw a few stones back, then carry on, I shall bow out and watch the circus.
Posted by Felix Marcano (Member # 1833) on :
" We even help you pick your company name!"
LMAO!
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
CURTIS .. That's It?? That is your whole theory wrapped up in a few words taken from someone else? Here is another one-line-er ... Those who CAN teach ..DO teach..those who cannot teach, complain about those who have that skill. A few more words to remember, so you might want to write it down for now.
KELLEY .. Your words are fair, and my response will be also. No magic tricks in my ads, or my video. All facts, and somewhat BORING facts, even though they are useful. I have not figured out how to make this type of instruction FUNNY! I have taken MY many years and condensed them ( hard for me to do since I am wordy by nature).I really do not promise anything other than information. But I do deliver a LOT of information. the first words on my training video are " While there is much to learn... and the learning never really stops, I will introduce you to the vinyl sign cutting business, cutters, designing, blah blah blah" This goes on for a while but I never say that "Baboons can do it ... and so can YOU" , or anything that is under-handed. There is a tremendous amount of knowledge in the training video.
I do not de-value THIS forum or the information that can be obtained by readers of it. I think it is GREAT! I developed a learning tool that most of you wish you had when YOU started in this business. It would have shaved off the first year or two of mistakes. I know that statement holds true for ME!!
Thank You kelley for your questions/statements.
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
Richard,
There are many sign folks on this board who are not so abrasive and are more open minded.
I have not been to your website.
Its human nature to forget we craftsmen were once young and inexperienced. We had to learn the craft somewhere, from someone. There are respected sign crafters teaching Corel and Adobe, others writing books on design and layout. They get paid for their efforts.
I really don't see any difference. You seem to have developed a system, a way to teach the inexperenced and get them started in business.
As far as a person staying in business, that isn't your job, or responsibility. Over 70% of new business will fail in a couple of years, no matter what they do. People don't plan to fail, they fail to plan.
I'm sure the vinyl suppliers are happy with all the new ones trying to start up a sign business. Lots of sales in equipment and products, which is good for business.
Years ago, Speedball put out a step by step book on how to draw and paint. I wonder if they would get this kind of ill-treatment today? Every sign guy in those days seem to have this book.
Dan Antonelli has a book out that has helped many unartistic sign makers beef up their layouts. He doen't get bashed here.
It appears to me that the only thing you are getting bashed about is the claim how much money a sign shop can make. That is just an advertising hook. People are losing jobs left and right and the "You can make 6 figures" is tempting to them.
Really, guys, (poster's above) don't you think the buyer of this product is smart enough to discern for himself what is of educational help to cut the learning curve in an ever changing industry. Its really none of anyone's business.
My thoughts, my opinions.
Edited to say: In the over 5000 sign shops we have contacted in the Mid-west USA this last year for our new whosale products, over 300 of them are now out of business. That is just in a 10 state area around Illinois. I believe it was stated that 250 copies of this training video was sold.
Maybe this video would have been a good thing for some shops to have had. It certainly could prove useful to help a businees owner teach new hires.
[ February 15, 2006, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Dave Draper ]
Posted by Steve Purcell (Member # 1140) on :
Well said, Mr. Draper.
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Kelley .. Again, I find YOUR words to be fair. But just as YOU do not want your 15 yrs to be under-minded, I do not feel I should allow MINE to be mis-stated and denigrated by those who do so without any first hand knowledge ...from a safe distance. As for stone throwing, I only do so in defense ....like the ones that follow....
FELIX .. I looked at YOUR website. It looks nice. It talks about your design skills very well, however, I also noticed that YOU did not design it. A company named FENN DESIGN did. With all YOUR skills ...why not?? I read FENN DESIGNS motto from their link on YOUR webpage. They say " Nobody is interested in being sold, or advertised. What you have to do is get people interested in TALKING about the product."
I am not certain that I believe that completely, but YOU certainly must since it is connected with YOUR website. The one that YOUR legendary design skills did NOT design! I will say that if YOU believe these words then you should be REAL DARNED HAPPY, with THIS whole discussion, since it is EXACTLY what FENN DESIGN (the ones who DESIGNED your site for you) says is their beliefs.
I guess I ( and others who wish to visit YOUR website and see for themselves ) will have to spend a lifetime wondering about this, with little hope for a true resolve.
I noticed a picture of a young boy doing boat lettering?? Is this the installation crew? Perhaps this is FENN DESIGN!! Your work shows talent in graphics, and I applaude you in it, but suggest you be content with that and stay away from the day-to-day needs of expression. After all, how much imagination went into the name Puerto Rico Signs? Not bad, I guess, but LMAO ??? You are out of your league ...was your 2nd choice "Sign Shop" ??
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Richard- chill out . . .
I think Barry was saying 'oh boy' as in . . . 'oh boy look where this thread is going . . .
As for your sign trainer thing . . . the whole first page is SLAM FULL of every possible mistake you can make with regard to layout and design.
This is why so many people who DO care about design say: Do NOT try this at home . . .
But kay-sera-sera . . . I'm aware that you are entirely free in this country to do basically anything you like to earn money.
Some people get legitimately married and work hard to create a harmonious thing . . . and some people give it away for free . . . and some people only do it in exchange for money . . . . . . What I'm sayin' hun, is, that it seems like you're pimpin' a poor imitation of the real thing, and the real thing is nothing like your cheap version.
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
I AGREE ... WELL SAID DRAPER !!
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
*quietly whispers . . . :
I'm just sayin'... Mr. Dissinger, you'll never convince people who put their heart and soul into layout and design, and who care more about quality than quantity, that you have a great thing goin' . . .is all . . .
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Sheila .. I notice you do not even HAVE a website, but MINE is all wrong. Is this your opinion as a signmaker .. or a QUILTER?? You also do the real thinking for BERRY/BARRY as well, and interpret his utterances?? You must have a very full day. BERRY/BARRY speaks, and later YOU describe just what he meant !! Seems like you are saying BERRY/BARRY is too inarticulate to say what he means and without YOU he would be better off being silent.
Please explain to others EXACTLY how you arrived at the conclusion that I am "pimpin a poor imitation of the REAL thing"? If YOU have THE REAL THING hidden away somewhere or sewn into a quilt, kinda like the DiVinci Code, let the rest of us know how to seek it out and discover it. I did not know there even was ONE and only ONE REAL THING. What does it look like? Does it look like YOUR own website??? OOPS ... I forgot ... YOU do not have one (at least not listed here).
I see why you have 4700 posts ...you will comment on ANYTHING ....Facts & knowledge being unimportant.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
First of all whether I have a web-site or not does not make your lack of layout any more improved.
I think it's quite obvious that I think for myself, and have stated exactly what my personal opinion of your trainer is. I'm sorry if you don't like the opinion. It would be nice to be able to put up some pics of more properly designed work, and sometime I sure will. Meanwhile, there's enough beautiful and properly designed quality sign photos available through countlessly talented people here, though, I'm not sure you could recognize it. Please read my last reply, which to reiterate, is why you will never convince anyone such 'quicky' lessons will make a person understand the kind of work most of those here strive to produce.
The most you can hope is that you have taught people to be 'glorified decal appliers'.
I do not think for Barry, I merely thought to interpret his meaning which you became so defensive about.
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
Okay ....help me out here Richard.
I'm trying to open the door for some reasonable discussion as to why the members of this forum took offense to your web site and it's claims. Are we perfect ....no, are you perfect....no. I think there are some valuable lessons here to be learned in terms of both accepting newcomers into the business, tolerance, false impressions etc. This post has the potential to do one of two things....educate us or divide us.
What happened in terms of attacking your web site was in my opinion partially unfounded. What you offer could be extremely valuable to both the people purchasing it and perhaps to the sign community in general.
Here is a word of advice to you..... Contact the Shortreeds about becoming a merchant here. I suspect it would be a great place to find clientele who are interested, at the same time it will put a world of consultants at your finger tips and help ensure the viability of a forum that has proven itself invaluable in terms of its contribution of information. I suspect you would be able to recover your $500 merchant fee easily in a year, simply from the beginners here. Will your product stand up to the scrutiny of your peers? I suppose time will tell, but you will only do well if you are open to constructive criticism and not prone to biting back.
Perhaps you are not interested in this venue, you are doing fine on your own, that's good too. I suspect being a merchant here is not always an easy process. I do believe, however, there is a lot of loyalty from most towards those who actively support and contribute to this forum. I suspect your reception here could change considerably, due to the current perception of some that you are someone who is working against them. Is this fair? Yes and no....
To those who want to smack me up side the head for even suggesting this..... get over it... Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Hi Richard! I commend you on your business. More power to you!
Now, about Web design... Whether or not someone has a website doesn't have anything to do with their skills as a signcrafter, or designer. Web Design is quite a specialty, and takes some techno knowledge as well.
NO website is better than a poor one. In my estimation, if someone does not have the skills required to design a great website, then hiring that out is the better choice. I commend Felix for knowing his limitations there and hiring a professional web designer. He did what was in the best interest of his business and hired someone that could showcase HIS work in it's best light.
Sorry for the edit, ... had a spelling goof.
[ February 15, 2006, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Janette Balogh ]
Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
Mr. Dissinger, Not to "dis" you, but you validate your product by stating that you have 100% feedback on ebay, which I admit is a wonderful thing, but how many of those are for your tape/cutter package? I see that of the current feedback 6 of 13 comments are for the tape only(the rest are products unrealated to the training). Not too hard to satisfy someone with a $32.95 intstructional video, especially if they have no knowledge of the industry, which is who you seem to target. I'd like to see some happy customers who dropped $1000 or more with you on the plotter package. And I'm sure you can include much useful, basic information in a video, but is it really "in depth training for a new career" as you claim? To me the claim that "most sign work is only letters" and "even if you have NO artistic talent" you can be a successful sign maker are at best offensive. Even those ads for mail order art schools assume there is SOME talent already there. As for your forums being evidence that your video is a succesful training tool I saw 10 topics in the Sign Tips/techniques thread with a total of 11 replies, the most recent being in Nov 2005. Not exactly a great endorsement of your "sucess". Everyone has to start somewhere, and your video might be just the thing for some, but the tone of your promotion and even of your own website ($40 sets of mags) cheapens an industry that most here are trying to improve.
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Sheila ..
Once again I say. No wonder you have so many posts.
You THINK for yourself and INTERPRET for BERRY/BARRY and I am sure he feels fortunate to have you in this role.
I don't dislike your opinion, so do not be sorry for it. In fact, without any first hand knowledge of my Training Video, I don't think what you have is an opinion at all. I think it is more of a need to carve out an identity for yourself, and it is so..so.. much easier to complain than it is to deal with life.
Yes .. we all know that SOMEDAY ...YOU will put up some pictures of Quality DESIGNED work. I am sure that going this slow is a strategy in itself, and when the time is right, and the stars are in perfect alignment, YOU will unvail the creations that we may all behold. On that day, perhaps we may all learn what the ONE REAL THING is also.
DECAL-APPLIERS shall fall to their knees on that historic day, and all sign people shall look toward Alabammy and shout "SHHEE-LAAA SHHEE-LAA"
Take another vallium and go quilt the words "HATE RICHARD.. HATE SIGNTRAINER" on something and settle down. This whole discussion is way beyond your comprehension.
Luv Ya ...Mean It !!
Posted by Barry Tonner (Member # 641) on :
This topic sure makes for interesting reading.... but I got an idea for you Richard.... why don't you start selling Microsoft Word, or Word Perfect, then all your customers can be authors.... the next day!
Posted by Stevo Chartrand (Member # 2094) on :
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
Originally posted by Kelly Thorson
quote: To those who want to smack me up side the head for even suggesting this..... get over it...
I think I changed my mind..... To those who want to smack me up side the head for even suggesting this.....
DO IT!!!!!!!
Richard, don't ever underestimate Sheila's talent.....and don't resort to attacking a persons ego to win.....that is just cruel. I'm done here.
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
This is the same tired idiotic argument as hand lettering vs vinyl destroying the biz,just with diff words. Heres the not gonna be popular 100% truth. People here took offense to this video because noone that posts here regularly,puts up stuff on the portfolio page or someone they consider a personal hero made it. Period. If richard lots of accompanying pretty pictures and said he had a section on angel gilding,the same bunch of complaining parrts ould be ooooohing and aaahhhing and praising him telling him how wonderful he was,do everything they could to encourage him even if they had the business and common sense of a sack of turnips.....all the while crapping on the antichrist sentiment of using this biz to actually earn a living yet claiming prices for projrcts,workloads and other embellishments that everyone knows are bs but noone dares say.
Heres a solution,and a simple one. Why doesnt someone that hates this video so much or the principle of it make their own video called YOU CANT A DIME IN THE SIGN BUSINESS UNLESS YOU HAVE ARTISTIC TALENT APPROVED BY LETTERVILLE. Is anyone gonna do that? No....but now because i said that 10 people will post the usual "this business is about certain things people dont understand and heres a longwinded meldrama of why post". This is just like the handlettering vs vinyl argument,just diff words. Once again,does anyone here make videos explaining that or deidcate threads to it? No,they say oh it cant be done,until Ray Chapman posts a monthly article about it in a magazine that passes without a mention. I realize this whole something to do drama isnt what barry started out with when he posted this....but,it takes a lotta nerve and false bravado to jump into this,pretty muchdeclare him a piece of crap ruining the sign industry and use the pile on mentality place blame on him instead of individual senses of complacency and entitlement.......then demand and explanation from him because he came here defending himself???? Gimme a break.....good on him for telling you all to stick it somewhere because under the circumstances he doesnt owe anyone here a damn thing. You dont like it,make your own video and sell it
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
I can't remember the last time I felt as insulted as I did when I looked at that website.
Is it any wonder so many people complain about our prices? After all, it only took us $49 and 90 minutes to become the professionals we are, right?
Do I think a realistic training video would be a benefit for companies to use for orientation when hiring new employees? Absolutely. Do I think it needs to be realistic and respectful to professionals? Absolutely. Do I think this is it? From the insults to the professionals in our trade and the misconceptions that are on that website, not a chance.
Actions speak louder than words. When given the opportunity to defend the video here, instead of showing professionalism, he chose to throw stones and personally attack our members.
Gavin, I was offended by the video due to it's being promoted by insulting our profession, not because of who made it. Although, after the posts on this thread, yes I am offended by the maker.
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Thanks Bill for visiting BOTH my websites and e-bay. It is good to have such dedicated interest. Bill, your research is faulty on e-bay. I have sold a few other things, like cutters and printers, but most all of my feedbacks are Training Video related. You might be genuinely confused since after a while, the product itself can no longer be identified, so it is hard to get a good handle on these statistics.
As for my website response, I get a LOT of questions on my regular e-mail address, or as stated on the website at www.ask@signtrainer.com and they do not show on the website. I have just recently started asking people to post their questions THERE instead, but, until I quit telling them to send to ask@signtrainer.com, I guess I cannot expect any different. I commend you on your detail work here.
$40 magnetic signs ... well, actually SOME of the shops here in Tampa sell them at $29 ...so I could be consider HIGH PRICED in some local circles.
I do not say " No ARTISTIC TALENT" .. I do say you can do it even if you have no ARTIST skills. There is a big difference. I am NOT an ARTIST, but I am ARTISTIC in my thinking. I cannot draw the item with a pen/pencil, but I can use/maniplulate clip art to do the right job. These skills are also taught in the training video.
I do not mind your scrutiny and have enjoyed clearing up the confusion. I hope I have done so to YOUR satisfaction.
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
I'm not even going to start talking aobut your video, you can do whatever you want, it doesn't bother me, but what really gets to me is the way you are treating people here. You have no idea who the people are that you are insulting, you obviously researched some of their other posts and found out that Sheila for example likes to quilt. Big deal, so now you treat her like she is not a professional sign maker? Or do you want me to ram your KELLY/KELLEY mistake down your throat? What is this, Kindergarten? I'm sure you have a lot of important things to do, don't let us hold you back.
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
I guess YOU wanted some of my personal attention also, so here it is. Thanks for visiting my website, but if it gave you a nosebleed...don't do it again. It may not be healthy for you.
I defend my video at every opportunity, but those who hurl stones AT me .. get stones back. Probably, mostly due to my ability to polish stones to a brilliance that fly back with such skill and effectiveness.
I gather from YOUR comments that you will NOT be ordering a training video real soon??
SUMMARY - you do not like the existance of the video, you do not like the author, you do not like the way I defend myself from OTHERS' attacks, you do not like GAVIN for having a different opinion from YOURS, and you do not like customers who complain about your prices.
I hesitate to ask this, but do you like little puppies, or are they smelly-little fuzz-shedding poop machines that stink up their surroundings??
OK ..you have had your moment of fame with me. I sit here crushed and unable to go on. One more MALE with a bad attitude that YOU have vanquished. Is YOUR life a little better now??
(P.S. - I made up most of that!)
All this over a video you have not seen, over content you do not know, and promises and insults that are all in your mind.
I noticed that YOUR website is not operational either ...do you need some help with it? Some design advice? Something??
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Lotti .. I treat people pretty much the same as they treat me. Occasionally, I over-react and when faced with it, I apologize. That does NOT seem to be likely here. You have read the posts, and you gotta admit, they are not very friendly. Yes, I do research, just like I did You before answering this. You say you like everything beautiful and cool. Well .. is it beautiful OR cool for all these people to badmouth a product they have never seen and attempt to make others feel it is bad? Would it be MORE beautiful or MORE cool if I had NO pride in my work, and I just accepted these silly little attacks quietly?? How quiet would YOU be if they all ganged up on YOU because of a sign job you did, that they did not ever see, but decides somehow your choice a a particular font was so objectionable, that they made up lies about you, and tried to make you look bad to others??
I will bet you would respond at least the same. Keep in mind, I am only defending myself.
I will tell EVERYBODY here that I have received 7 e-mails DIRECTLY to me today, from people on this board, who are secretly applauding my efforts here, and apologizing for the rest who are being so unkind. More than one of these have their names in THIS thread. I will not say who they are, but to all of them I do say again ... THANK YOU!
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
You have a lot of nerve Mr. Dissinger responding the way you do. Just because many question your ethics, skills, and motives does not give you the right to defend yourself!
There is protocol here and one thing is, until you have done at least 200 posts, kissed ample arses, flattered those that never seem to get enough, you then can then proceed to show a little backbone.
These people know the rules now you learn them.
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
Richard, I would not be pleased if I was in your shoes, granted, it is not cool to be attacked. But my impression was that most people have critizised your product, not your person. In turn, to defend yourself as you say, you have ridiculed and attacked people on a personal level. Can you see what I mean?
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
I'm not 7, I don't need attention from personal attacks about what you want to think I said. You have shown your true colors quite clearly in this thread. Moment of fame with you? You're inferring an awful lot about my thoughts of you from my post. Please stop flattering yourself at my expense.
Evidently you never learned that niceness and maturity and civility goes a lot farther than childish stone-throwing. Thought everyone learned that on the playground in kindergarten.
I'm not upset with Gavin at all. I consider him a friend. I also don't have a problem disagreeing with a friend. I just don't find it necessary to resort to childish antics such as name-calling and stone-throwing.
Had you taken the time to read my post, you would see that my problem is the insulting way the promotion of your video portrays our industry. I did not say I didn't like the existance of the video, I think a REALISTIC video that doesn't insult the professionals in this trade would be a great tool for orientation when hiring new employees. Telling someone they can learn everything they need to know about the sign business in 90 minutes is not realistic. My own personal ethics say it's false advertising, but that's just my personal ethics. Perhaps the video isn't insulting, but the way it is promoted is. If I were looking for a video to show employees, it certainly wouldn't be 1 where the promotion of it insults me!
There was a post here recently about finding out how your customers see you. You have been given truthful feedback on how professionals in this industry see your video business. A smart business person would use that information to their benefit. But instead of asking how your site could be improved, you chose to insult us. Or did I imagine that too like you think I imagined the insults on your website?
As for my website, as if it's any of your business, I changed servers and decided it was the perfect time to do a complete revamp. If I wanted design advice, I'd ask Nettie. She's a true professional which is clear from the numerous websites she's designed.
You can insult me all you want, you can continue to twist my words into whatever you want them to say, I really couldn't care less about you.
I would suggest that if you continue to insist on hawking your video here, contact the site owners & pay the merchant fee. If not, the door is to your left.
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Kelly .. Your idea about contacting the Shortreeds about advertising is a good one. I am going to do that. Thank You.
Janette .. I thank you for your kind post. I am glad you are on my side. especially since you are too pretty to argue with.
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Wouldn't it be a hoot if Steve and Barb started charging non-merchants for every commerical plug "link dropping". Say 10 bux a pop!
If we kept this thread alive long enough, they'd have 6 figures right here!
LOL
Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
"Bill, your research is faulty on e-bay. I have sold a few other things, like cutters and printers, but most all of my feedbacks are Training Video related. You might be genuinely confused since after a while, the product itself can no longer be identified, so it is hard to get a good handle on these statistics." I don't think I'm confused, I said that 6 of 13 feedbacks were for the video,those are the last 13 that are available for viewing, if you're saying that all the other older ones are for your video, then fine, that is great. As for your other website(http://www.ask@signtrainer.com/) I tried to check it out, but the link didn't work. You are right, there is a difference between skill and talent. But I still don't believe that someone with no artistic skill could make $100,000 or more a year inn this business after watching a video. Much less selling $40 sets of magnets, at least not vinyl lettered ones sold one set at a time.
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
DAVID .. You are so right, I will try to learn from your wisdom, although I think I am getting it anyway. At this rate I will have those 200 -posts by days end.
LOTTI ..If you think those who have been attacking me were not making it personal, you may wish to look back through them again. YOU have been one of the nicer ones, and even you are not exactly part of my fan club. (no insult intended here). I simply researched their own complaints vs. their own sites and found them to be mostly violating their own accusations, and mentioned it ...OK, Hurled it back!! ... HARD !!
KISSYMATINA .. I still have to say, I see why you have so many posts. You get really worked up over all this, and I imagine everything else. I recognize this because I am kinda like that also, but.. when I respond, my words have continuous flow. You are all over the place. Kinda like a stopped up toilet, just going everyplace at once.
I am willing to bet that YOU can argue with a one-word sentence, so, here goes .......
HELLO
(you respond here. I'll go get the plunger)
Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
Welcome to Letterville Richard. You seem to be one brave fellow. In my opinion you won't win your argument here any more than anyone else will win theirs. Our views are so very much different. I'm not about to change my view and I think you probably formly believe in yours. It doesn't make us enemies.
Some (including me) believe to make a really great sign you do indeed need some artisitic talent. I believe you also need years of hands-on experience. A passion to learn will take you a long ways. The signs I make come from my heart. Although I do indeed make a very good living at it, the sign business isn't about the money in my book.
Others believe that making signs is just a way to make money. The art isn't a big deal. Much of the sign industry is in this boat. Good looking signs aren't the priority or the norm from these shops.
Your video may well help beginners to achieve a similar quality sign to much of what we see out there... merely LETTERS stuck on a flat substrate. In my humble opinion that is what is largely wrong with the sign industry. Pleasing signs are SO MUCH more than that.
Let me go on to say that your product does not offend me. It makes me sad. I have spent a lifetime developing my skills and gathering knowlege. To see it trivialized and made to be so simple you can suggest that someone can do this craft by watching a 90 minute video is a bit of a stretch in my mind.
Your design skills are evident in the layout of your web page. Sadly, the bar for quality is not often raised in this business. What distresses most veterans of the sign industry (including those on this forum)is that anyone who can make the commitment to purchase the necessary equipment has the instant ability to open the doors to a sign shop and become instant experts. IN MY EXPERIENCE THIS SIMPLY IS NOT POSSIBLE.
Your video furthers that myth.
Good luck to you Richard. And good luck to those who must compete daily with the people he would encourage to get into this business.
-grampa dan
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
Steve must be on vacation or something.
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Dan .. I agree with a whole lot of what you say. Those who have a natural ( or by training ) talent as an artist get higher rewards for that talent. I personally have MARGINAL "artist" skills, and rely heavily on clipart, and manipulation of clipart. My own drawing of trucks and vans look a whole lot like Turtles caught in a drink mixxing machine. As I look back on my own website, my truck lettering, my business cards, and even my shoes, I say "Gee ,I wish I had done it THIS other way", but this can go on forever, so you choose a path and try to make it work, then improve occasionally.
Once again.. my video does not create instant sign people. It gives them training, good training, hopefully they build on it and get better. NEWBIES !!
Thanks for the post.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Steve is not on vacation. How can you afford to do anything when you run a fulltime website that allows people to advertise for free. I'm not picking on Richard. My so called friends do it all the time too.
I want the name calling to stop right now! That's not the way we do things here. There are some important discussions we can have in this thread without bashing each others point of view. Change the tone now or I will toss the whole thing out.
Go back and read David Wright's post. I'm sure it is done tounge in cheek, but there may be a ring of truth in it. Forget the mob mentality and show some tolerance for the views of others. In the meantime, I'll continue to peck away at my own thoughts. It takes ages with two fingers.
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
And I say again...oh boy.
You know, I was gonna post a nice long blab in response to you, Rich, but now I don't have to. I can just say , "What Dan said."
Especially that part about it making a guy sad. I relate to that.Although I am not as nice as Dan. It aggravates me too. Most everyone here are commited to the craft. Dedicated to contributing to an artform that more and more is being taken over by folks like you. No personal offense intended. But you cut the heart out of what we love, and throw it away as un-necessary. Sheesh. How can that ever be a good thing?
That having been said: If you aren't gonna pay for the url listing you really oughta remove it. It isn't fair to those who pay for the privilege. That's experience talking. (wink and nudge to those to whom it matters.)
Anywhoo, I wish you nothing but good, but I wish it was a something else.
BTW Sheila and others thanks for your words.
[ February 15, 2006, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Barry Branscum ]
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Thanks for the link advice Barry.
BTW...who was the guy that started this whole thing? hahahahahahaha
Richard. If you are truly interested in a serious discussion, please knock off the links. We get the idea. Most of us are already longtime pros and probally not your target audience. If you do benefit from Letterville, send us a percentage.
[ February 15, 2006, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Mr. Dissinger,
I'm not sorry for my opinion, it still stands. In a different form now, I think your web page is tacky.
And I certainly don't have to 'prove' anything to maintain my opinion.
And while I do appreciate kind words from my peers on their personal opinions of my talent, your personal opinion that I have none, means nothing to me.
I think the more important point to make, is you are among a people STRIVING everyday to improve upon their skills.
If you can honestly say you care about that, and still advertise in the manner you do, you're simply blind.
As far as I'm concerned that IS the discussion.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
This is nothing but a constant provoking of every one to put his posts on TOP.
, Can we say troll?
Defined as::: synonymous with flamebait. As a verb, to post controversial or provocative messages in a deliberate attempt to provoke flames.
A troll is a person who posts rude or offensive or provocative messages on BBS's and online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants or to garner top position... "Troll" can also mean the message itself or be a verb meaning to post such messages. "Trolling" is also commonly used to describe the activity. He doesnt post here except to expound his junk..,,, Stop responding to this troll junk and he will soon disappear.
Is it time for steve or barb to consider locking this thread?,,,
[ February 15, 2006, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Curtis hammond ]
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
hey richard! so far i like ya! you go guy! i don't care what your site looks like or what you are selling...frankly i've seen some pretty lameass sites from some of the posers here...hell even mine sucks. i don't blame you one bit for checking out this link wondering wtf am i getting so many hits...see, letterville does have numbers...and most of the folks here are awesome. you have every right to defend yourself...afterall i'm sure barry nearly shyt himself when you actually showed up...can't fault ya for that. i don't know what kind of work you do or your specialty so i won't tell you that you suck...but i think you've been fair to the people who've attacked you....and just so you know...those people wouldn't have reacted any differently if the shoe was on the other foot...whether it be a training cd, flames, clipart, or porn.
hang in there...200 posts goes by really quick for some folks.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
I can't blame Richard for coming here to defend his product. After all, it was one of us that fired the first shot. Who can blame anyone, friend or foe, from getting some free publicity in the most read Forum available. I'll bet the same discussion is happening on other Forums as well. Oh well, it's only fair that he gets the opportunity to defend himself.
Most of us here in Letterville are not just signmakers. We are Letterheads. To a Letterhead, their work is everything. It's not uncomman to hear younger Letterheads comment that the work is much more important than the money. Letterheads are constantly exposed to the very best signwork out there. Many of us can spot every flaw. It drives us completely nuts. In a nutshell....we are fanatics.
There is nothing wrong with the above, but we must learn to at least recognize that there is a majority of people in the sign industry that have no idea, or even care to know about things like layout, design, and the other things us Letterheads lay awake at night thinking about. They are making lots of money because there is a buying public out there that just cannot recognize the value of a well designed sign.
This is nothing new, and it is by no means restricted to the sign business. Imagine how the well trained musician must fell watching some of today's "musicians" get rich off a public that no longer is aware and/or appreciates what most of us consider good music. Take a look at what we were wearing in the 70's!
The money comment seems to really burn many of us. Is it really possible to make 6 figures in one person shop? If we are talking gross sales, I don't know how a shop can survive without doing over 100 grand. If your family shop is your sole source of income, you gotta be doing more than that. I personally never took home 100 grand myself, but I know of many other Letterheads that do so on a regular basis. BTW...at 53, with 5 kids and a mortgage, I've changed my thinking about the importance of money.
We are not the only ones interested in making more money and enjoying the lifestyle that goes with it. There are those out there without it, that will continue to preach that more money is evil and cannot by happiness. That may be true, but most of us would agree it would be nice to be unhappy on a beach somewhere or a nicer side of town. People are always looking for new ways to increase their income. That's our way of life.
Richard's video is geared towards those people. He is a smart salesman that sees an opportunity and wants to profit from it. He's no different than the companies that developed the software and hardware that made it possible for us to make more faster. They also recognize that there are all sorts of others out there looking to make a partime income. Browze thru any of the new opportunity type publications and you will find some of our suppliers. We live in a World of Do It Yourself.
I understand the anger and frustration many oldtimers feel. Let's face it. When we pulled up at a job and pulled out our paint and brushes, we were really something special. The public was in awe of skills that took many years of practise to master. Today's technologies, products like Richards, the news stories of patients and inmates becoming signmakers, etc. can make many of us feel we wasted our lives. But only if we decide that's what we want to do.
It's easy to complain and blame others for the situations we find ourselves in. Ask me how I know. Getting up and doing whatever it takes to change your situation isn't easy. Making fun of guys like Richard and all the other signmakers that don't agree with our way of thinking is not going to accomplish anything. You may be able to brag on chat that you got in the best shot, but that is not going to put more food on your table. We cannot expect to do things the same old way and not get the same old results. There is no gain without pain. Stop the bitching.
Welcome to Letterville Richard. As a professional sign designer, some of your comments are insulting if I choose to take them personally. I don't. I believe they were made to appeal to someone in the general public that wants more and is looking for ways to do that. I'd prefer that they didn't intrude into my chosen profession, but I do understand the need and desire to create additionanl income.
Please show respect for the Letterhead Philosophy and the users of Letterville Richard. You are in our World now. You may be able to teach people how to cut letters and make perfect ugly signs in a day, but I suggest you then send them to Letterville and give us a shot at teaching them to make signs like this. It's going to take a few years of hard work, but some may want to shoot for the Moon.
[ February 15, 2006, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Pass the Crab Rangoons please!
Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
The thing about this whole business is with the creation of the computer/plotter package many years ago, the door was opened for anyone that wanted to, to get into the sign business. I have 12 people here in town that have plotters and are making signs. Since I mainly do custom work and high end signs, their stuff hasnt affected me, at least on the books. Thats not to say that I dont do signs for people that want something cheaper. I still do magnetics, coro signs, etc. cause its money in the bank. Richard decided he could put out his video and make some bucks while maybe showing "newbies" the right way from the start how to do things. If Im not mistaken, there are other videos out there on vinyl application, layout, etc. that deal with this business. Its been done before, and it will be done again. We have to understand that video or not, there are thousands of potential "signmakers" out there trying and learning, and who is to say they wont end up being great designers in their own right. Ive cursed the plotter before, cause it made it so easy to be a signmaker and took away from an age old craft that spawned many talented hand letterers and designers, but I dont think its the right thing to do to belittle this fella cause he made a video to show people how to do it right. I like every damn one of you on here, even ol gavin , but this aint what letterheads is about, and Im pretty sure of that.
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Steve
Thank you ( a lot ) for your words of fairness. I looked at your link and those really are CLASS-ACT signs, and quite honestly my training course does NOT go into THAT type of detail. I focus on vinyl signs and a lot of truck lettering. That is because those are the primary fields that I make money in. I have , over the last 10 years, had bucket trucks, crane trucks, CNC routers, CNC foam cutting equipment, flatbed presses and more. I eventually sold all of them because they were not as efficient (for me) as the truck/boat lettering, 4x8 signs, and screen printing.
Geography has a lot to do with it. In Florida I do not see the same numbers of CARVED signs as I do elsewhere in the country, but I do see a BUNCH of trucks & boats that want to be lettered.
Florida also has some tough rules for installation of the kinds of signs shown in your link, and the people who are allowed to install them. Even though I did have a contractor's license in this state, I allowed it to lapse since I do not wish to install things like this any more (this had to do with a stroke I had 3 yrs ago).
Again .. thanks for the warm welcome. It's certainly far removed from the sizzlin' welcome I WAS getting.
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
I won't pass any judgement on this video tape. I can't because I didn't see it. I am going to buy one though. Then I will be able to. Hell, I wasted at least 49 bucks in crap cd's that bite the big one last year alone.
As far as that E-Bay line of thought goes, all the rating means is that everyone who ordered a tape, got one. That's it. It has no bearing on whether or not anyone actually derived any value out of it.
The reasoning behind why anyone would purchase it to use it as a training tape to train employees also escapes me. Why would anyone show an employee a tape that tells them how much money they are going to make being in the sign business and then give them a chance to steal the customer list on their way out the door?
Here is some important financial advice from me as I see things:
If I bought a tape and sign making package for just about a grand one year ago, the tape would still be worth at least 20 bucks to a potential buyerand that state of the art DingTech cutter would have to be worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $150.00.
But, if I had purchased $1,000.00 of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00. With Enron, I would have $16.50 left of the original $1,000.00 and with a WorldCom stock purchase, of $1000.00 I would have less than $5.00 left.
But, since I had purchased $1,000.00 worth of beer one year ago, drank all the beer, then turned in the cans for the aluminum recycling REFUND, I now have $214.00.
Based on the above, the best current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle...
I call it my 401Keg plan.
The chinese is on me tomorrow only. Lunch reservations must be made by 10:00 am and you have to be here to pick me up no later that 11:30.
Posted by Harry Ellis (Member # 6353) on :
Word on the street is Richard's next production is a video called Do-It-Yourself Brain Surgery, available of course on e-bay.
Obviously, there won't be any negative feedback.
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Harry .... I like the idea. Watch for it soon!
Bruce .. which re-cyling is good too.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Sign me up! I've suffered from "stinkin' thinkin'" for years. How hard can it be?
Posted by Jackson Smart (Member # 187) on :
...oh Richard, you are gonna fit in real good on here....if you stick around, that is.
But listen.....don't EVER talk about religion or politics around here...you think you got blasted for your site and video....son, you ain't seen nuttin' yet!
Welcome to the wacky world of sign folk! Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Anyone gonna eat that Egg Roll?
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Jackson
I guess you are saying my idea for "Out-takes & blunders from Popes and Presidents I did not like" Volumns 1 & 2 should not be pre-marketed here?
Posted by david drane (Member # 507) on :
quote:Originally posted by Gavin Chachere: This is the same tired idiotic argument as hand lettering vs vinyl destroying the biz,just with diff words. Heres the not gonna be popular 100% truth. People here took offense to this video because noone that posts here regularly,puts up stuff on the portfolio page or someone they consider a personal hero made it. Period. If richard lots of accompanying pretty pictures and said he had a section on angel gilding,the same bunch of complaining parrts ould be ooooohing and aaahhhing and praising him telling him how wonderful he was,do everything they could to encourage him even if they had the business and common sense of a sack of turnips.....all the while crapping on the antichrist sentiment of using this biz to actually earn a living yet claiming prices for projrcts,workloads and other embellishments that everyone knows are bs but noone dares say.
Heres a solution,and a simple one. Why doesnt someone that hates this video so much or the principle of it make their own video called YOU CANT A DIME IN THE SIGN BUSINESS UNLESS YOU HAVE ARTISTIC TALENT APPROVED BY LETTERVILLE. Is anyone gonna do that? No....but now because i said that 10 people will post the usual "this business is about certain things people dont understand and heres a longwinded meldrama of why post". This is just like the handlettering vs vinyl argument,just diff words. Once again,does anyone here make videos explaining that or deidcate threads to it? No,they say oh it cant be done,until Ray Chapman posts a monthly article about it in a magazine that passes without a mention. I realize this whole something to do drama isnt what barry started out with when he posted this....but,it takes a lotta nerve and false bravado to jump into this,pretty muchdeclare him a piece of crap ruining the sign industry and use the pile on mentality place blame on him instead of individual senses of complacency and entitlement.......then demand and explanation from him because he came here defending himself???? Gimme a break.....good on him for telling you all to stick it somewhere because under the circumstances he doesnt owe anyone here a damn thing. You dont like it,make your own video and sell it
Great response Gavin. Methinks this is funny, because Richard is laughing all the way to the bank. Probably making more than a lot of the "professionals" here without working too hard either.
Posted by Jackson Smart (Member # 187) on :
....hahahaha good one!
....now to me, that would be one I would definitly buy....anytime you can poke fun at those folks....you would appeal to a VAST audience. Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Richard,
My first post was loaded with sarcasm and satirical statements about what I would consider a synopsis of just how bad a self help signmaking starter video could be. Sort of a "How to make signs for fun and profit" thing.
This whole thing was brought into discussion here by Barry and I did jump all over it, not as a personal attack, but with something of a poke at what many people here on this site feel has been damaging to the sign industry as a whole...devaluation.
Amidst the denziens of Letterville are people who hold seminars, create fonts, are product representatives and merchants, many of whom are respected in their experience and willingness to share their expertise. Moreso, many here feel a passion for this craft and have dedicated themselves to improving their skills and sharing that knowledge here and at live meets.
I would only make one point at this time and then I'll go play in traffic if you like...
You stated that one person here should go where there is no competition...
...yet here you are in the middle of a website that, for no money at all, offers a wide scope of information on making signs at every skill level from beginner to veteran.
How did you think we'd react?
Rapid
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Sometimes I see the term Letterville used as if it was one person. Remember when you first joined this Forum? Their was a disclaimer that went like this
The Letterhead Website cannot assume responsibility for the validity of any information other than our own comments on this board.
Letterville has almost 9,500 shops registered in our database. Out of that number, 5,359 are registered BB users. A handful of users do not speak for all of Letterville. When you read Letterville says this, or Letterville says that, it should really say some people in Letterville say this or that.
Posted by Duncan Wilkie (Member # 132) on :
That's why I like ya so much Bruce... Your not just another purdy face...your a deep thinker with a good handle on the important issues in life...and when the Chinese take over, you'll never go hungry.
Keep the pearls coming...your on a roll. Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
I don't know about the rest of you, but this guy's video and website have about as much to do with my type of sign work - both in design and execution - as it does with quantum physics. Quicky vynull work has already been about as devalued and debased as it could be, long before Mr. Dissinger started selling his version of snake oil to the masses. Anyone with half a clue - and I admit, that's rare - has figured out that the only way to add real value to your work, as Dan S. has explained, is to offer the type of work that the vast majority cannot or will not bother to learn to do. So why is anyone even toubling themselves to respond to his provocations?
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Well said, Cam!
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Yes, Cam, well stated.
I am still working on my 401Keg plan... Care to join me?
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Bruce
I'd love to buy you Chinese for lunch, they have no power. Oh well, tell me about that 401 thingy.
Edited to add: Atta boy, Cam & Dan S. Nothing more needs to be said.
Rick
[ February 17, 2006, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Cam .. Actually, your analysis is not far off, except for the snake oil. Most sign people that I have met, find a niche that they feel good about and move into that style as their own personal expression in signs. This accounts for the wide diversity of Totally Different, but uniquely well done signs we all see.
I ... on the other hand, have pulled BACK from most of those specialties, finding them to be, overall, more-sell .. more-effort & less bottom line profit than vinyl ...but... I do know that SOME people have the great knack to show totally different time-to-profit ratios and it works for them. So .. I am no real threat to them, nor they to me.
As far as provocations and responses go ... this is just the outcry of those who do NOT do very well in their own business, blaming some object far away for this lack of business. For the moment .. I am that reason. I can deal with it since I know it to be a false accusation, by people who have no useful knowledge of the item ...but ... somehow PROCLAIM it to be bad. Most religions are full of this type person who proclaims all new concepts, works themselves up over this created falsehood, and THEN does something real mean and stupid that gets them on the news, all the while claimimg their mission was divine.
Not everybody can think clearly, or emerge with a logical conclusion. ( kinda like plunger-lady )
" Long live vinyl, and the people who cut it "
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
You people shouldn't be so jealous because someone beat you to the punch.At least Richard had the balls to go after the money maker and stick with it.Koudles to you Richard. Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
I'm not against Richard per say, just his mannerisms. It's obvious he has a grasp on the English language, and uses it quite well to express himself, as evidenced in here of late. It's what he's saying that bothers me, am I alone in noticing that his research has gone deep enough to make comments on them about things that only time knowing someone would provide unless sought after to make a judgement on their overall personality and traits, in which to pick on them with, using snide remarks and uttering enenudos about them, half truths arrived at by not really knowing person, just their internet personality??? Sorry Richard, I've tried to stay out of this, for one, I'm not interested in your product and for another, you were beset upon coming in. And you have all the rights to do your business anyway you deem, hopefully profitable, of course...but does riding over ppl. you can outspeak make you feel better? Really? Does it? Can't imagine it does, but then, I could be wrong...for someone as articulate as you to stoop to snide, half-hidden remarks about some of your accusers, doesn't make me think of you in light I'd presume you'd like to see others see you in...first impressions never go away, your stabs are what make me wary of you, not fact you may be a good guy or not, you may be, but road to that awareness here has been lengthened by your uncalled for responses to those expressing their opinions of your product. Isn't that part of business, the ability to take criticism? W/O it, how would one get an honest, average idea of what ppl. think of product or service??? To defend product is acceptable in my opinion, if kept within certain restraints, when those lines are crossed and feelings are hurt unneccessarily, then it's time to say, enough is enough...the fastest way to gain something is with honey, not vinegar, as I'm sure your probably already aware of, needless to say, nice works everytime, going in. Afterwards is a shallow gesture at best....that's the way I see it... Good luck w/whatever it is that you sell, but take it easy on the ppl. in here will you? Never know when one of them and you might meet in a dark alley somewhere USA...as you've already pointed out many times, this is a wide forum, attended by many, never know who's lurking, never say never...oh, and Richard, that wasn't a threat, just an observation and opinion stated in light of your postings in here...you've stepped on some toes, expect to recieve some negative feedback for awhile, if you decide to stick around...
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Frank .. your words have good meaning. I really do not have a strong inner desire to put out a lot of the words I do, any more than I really want to eat chocolate. BUT ...... the temptations are too strong sometimes too resist. When either situation is shoved into my face and I didn't make any moves toward it in my own ......I CONFESS ...I become weak !!
Anyone who has a "reasonably" nice comment toward me or my product finds my responses to be nice. The battle-responses that you see are saved ONLY for those who have stepped on my toes FIRST. YOU have not, and THIS response is , I hope, well received by you.
Once again .. for the record .. I say to all ... my Sign Shop Training Video does in fact work, is NOT there as an attack on the sign industry, my goal is/was never to come here just to create negative comments, only to defend FROM negative comments .. by people who post them just to look important to others. I thank the many who have supported (in various degrees) my position, and to those who have found themselves BESTED by my responses to their silliness ... well ... fall back, re-group, realize you were wrong and learn from it. That is called growing up.
The truth is ... I do not take any of this NEAR as seriously as many of you seem to. Some of you are declaring this as some type of HOLY-WAR. I am smiling the whole time I type this stuff and laugh at most of it. Keep it all coming if you feel the NEED ... I can use the exercise.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Before I lay this one to rest, I'd love to see something from Richard that will benefit the users of Letterville. Is there a chapter or section of the video that you can share with Letterville newbies at no cost? It could be something as simple as surface preparation.
Let's assume Letterville is a really cool car. I'm willing to lend out my car, but you gotta at least put some gas back in it. Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
I have found that alphabet characters (i.e. A,B,C etc) can be useful as artwork. I load the character, often script types, convert to curves, and thru node edit actions I alter it's appearance ( add - delete - stretch ).
Example: Motorhome graphics: take a lower case, script font, letter "v" flatten it out, stretch it left-to-right, and convert to curves (where needed) and add or delete nodes to get the look you need. Script-type "S" with the top half chopped off, rotated 90 degrees, and then flattened out can make for nice underline efects or flower stems, or car graphics. The next time you need a special effect for a job, look to your font list and let your imagination work overtime
#2 SPARE PARTS -As u go further from your shop to do work,it's important to take a few spares where it is easy to do. EXAMPLE- you are making (3) website decals for a truck lettering job. They are 3" high each, and you will end up with 4-5" of scrap vinyl after the cut ... why not cut 1 more ... JUST IN CASE you get one on crooked or damage it. It seems that the larger letters are more likely to go on straight, especially if you are using wet application ... while you may tend to disregard the need to be as careful with the smaller ones thinking " .. what could go wrong here? This is small,which means easy".
WRONG!! I find that I treat the smaller items with less care than the large ones, and in doing so can find myself going back the following day , wasting time, and reputation, just to do one little DASH in a phone number, or something tiny like that, but troublesome. There is no better plan than caution, care, and working to your best practical speed ... but mistakes happen. Be prepared and take a little extra of each color vinyl with you also when you go. This has saved me MANY times from returning and finishing the job right ... THE SECOND TIME !!!
#3 - All [newish] FORD vans have wierd bubble shapes to them. If you measure the MAIN panel at the front edge, just behind the door, you will find it to be 24 1/2 inches, yet at the REAR, it changes to 22 inches. The result of which is ... RARELY do your words/graphics look like you put them on straight, and guess what ...your customer notices it also. On top of this, the indentation (about middle going front to back) is on most models, NOT straight either .. it goes downhill. Call these points out to your customer prior to lettering and let them know that there is likely to be a difference in the look as they scan FRONT to BACK word alignment. I have yet to find a perfect solution to this that satisfies ALL potential objections.
STEVE - Some to ALL of the readers HERE on this forum may already know these tips/techniques due to experience, however, imagine you are NEW at this again, and imagine just how useful these and other, training tips could be. I am willing to bet that at least SOME of those reading this have found at least ONE item useful...even if they refuse to admit it.
Hope this puts a LITTLE gas in ...
Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
I would think a link to a video clip would be more appropriate.
Posted by Carl Wood (Member # 1223) on :
A Ding Tec??????
Posted by Brad Ferguson (Member # 33) on :
RE: 401keg It's saddening to think that my years of investing in scotch has never returned anything more valuable than a headache. Oh well, at least I don't have a "scotch belly."
Posted by John Largent (Member # 4606) on :
While I'm not a "Vinyl Guy", I've found over the years, that you can learn something from everybody, and Mr. Dissinger made an educational Tape with a lotta how to's, who's to say you won't pick up on ONE THING that might be worth the price of the tape over a period of time.
I'm an old Pro, but as a teacher, we (the school) buy all kinds of Videos, and I have, yet, to see one I haven't picked up "Something' . . . get off the man's back . . .
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
What would have happened to me if you guys knew that eight years ago I sold information on the internet about how I could teach anybody the sign business? I too advertised that it was possible to make $100,000. + a year and that was a fact. I was doing it so I didnt' lie. Would I have been reamed a new anal cavity? Somehow I don't think so because everyone knows me here.
I sold an info package over the internet when it was just taking off, about what was involved in the sign business and people paid me $7,000.00. to attend my class. It did include a plotter and software for that price along with the course. The student spent an intensive 40 hour week here in my shop to learn how to start their own sign business. It was an accelerated training course which covered the business aspects, psychology as it pertained to sales and design. The software, basics of Mike Stevens design principles, and production methods.
I taught a dozen students, some who couldn't even draw a stick figure. Funny but those guys are still in business today and making a damn good living. One of my students within a week sold his very first 4'x8 sign after leaving my course for $700.00
How could he get that much money you might ask? Because I told him he could and he didnt know any better to not believe me. Also because the design he submitted was worth it after I critiqued it for him.
The only reason I dropped the course was because to be a really good teacher is exhausting. I only wish I had thought of the video course back then. I would have only had to teach once and could have sold far more videos and for the price I might have sold thousands of them.
We all forget too soon where we all started. I would be ashamed to show some of my first signs that I did. I had no teacher or information at all. Image what I would be like today if only I had gotten lessons from somebody. Being entirely self taught, I have paid dearly for all the trial and error mistakes I've made.
This is America and its based on money whether you admit it or not. Its possible to be crafty in the sign business AND make money. There's no shame in it.
I think its funny that everyone is getting their feathers all ruffled up. We all should worry more about our own business and not what everyone else is doing. We would be better off in the long run.
[ February 19, 2006, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: Bob Stephens ]
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Bob you are not on multiple sign boards doing the same thing....getting free advertizing!
Time for Steve to lock this thread!
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Si ..
It is hard to imagine why YOU, as a sign PAINTER would feel angry or threatened by this VINYL Sign Training Video. If you are angry about the posts, perhaps you should focus your negative words toward Barry, since he is the one who started the whole discussion off.
I will remind you what STEVE said ...
"I can't blame Richard for coming here to defend his product. After all, it was one of us that fired the first shot. Who can blame anyone, friend or foe, from getting some free publicity in the most read Forum available"
While the advertising has NOTHING to do you my being here, since the chances of selling a tape here is unlikely, I would suggest to you that every word YOU post about me, is one more word that COULD possibly interest someone to check out my product, so... if YOU do not want the world to know about my training video .. the best way to accomplish that is to not add more fuel to the fire.
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
I am speechless.... 40 bucks huh? thats the same money as Mass Mayhem 6, our 3 day Letterhead meet where you can learn, pinstriping, gold leaf, airbrushing, hand carving, smalts, and I will personally do a demo on how to stick a stickah on straight.... and we will even provide lunch....such a bargin!
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
There you go ...
MANY things of value can be gotten for only $40 !! Captain Ken has just attested to that !! (actually $32.95 for MINE)
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
there you go...
I thought it was 49 bucks?
heres a better value for $35....
SignCraft Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Ken ... If you go to the ad on E-Bay you will see the ad for $32.95. ( there you go !! )
SignCraft is good once you know your way around the field, but a NEW sign person is the target audience for my training video.
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
Richard.... have you ever been to a Letterhead meet?
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Ken .. No I have not. Is this an invitation?
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
Yes it is.... We have many beginners as well as master craftsmen in attendance every year. It may help you in your business to speak with people that have been in the trade for 40+ years. check it out under "future live meets" on the menu on the left on this site. Maybe you could donate a copy of your video as a door prize, maybe AJ could win something useful.
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
Ken; could you post a link to MM6? I'm in dark as to it's exact dates and such, was thinking there might be a link to show dates, times, and maybe even a map as Burb won't let me install GPS...RC was talking it up other night in chat...AJ better get w/it, even Scotty won a t-shirt...
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
Frank, check it out under "future live meets on the left hand side menu, it has the dates and times but Gary is still working on a registration form and map, its very easy off route 93 and tthe hotel is Motel 6 in Tewksbury.,.. I will get Gary to get all the forms and stuff in order this week, email me if you want more info.
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Ken
I would be pleased to donate a copy with one condition, that is that it end up going to a beginner, or at least someone who is 'new-ish' who really could put some of it to use.
Richard
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Ken
I did not see the calender you spoke of, but again consider it done. When you do the giv-a-way, just notify me of the recipients name and address and I will send it directly to them, most likely on the same day.
Posted by Roy Frisby (Member # 736) on :
Has anyone taken the time to tell Richard about the initiation, the goat and all?
[ February 20, 2006, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Roy Frisby ]
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
ROY
Oh God !?!? You mean it goes DownHill from HERE ???
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
Roy!!! Not until AFTER the secret handshake...sheeeeesh... Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
Richard, I applaud your fortitude. This can be a tough crowd, but Bob said it best - we only have to think about our first sign to remember just how bad we were in the beginning.
There's room for all skill levels in this business and not many of us will EVER reach the quality of the Gary Anderson signs that Steve posted a link to.
I personally thought that the excerpt Richard posted had some pretty good advice. When I do boat registration numbers, I always cut an extra set - unfortunately, I learned that lesson the hard way. Since apparently, NOT ONE PERSON HERE has actually seen his video, aren't we jumping the gun a little?
Be careful if you go to Mass Mayhem, Richard. That's witch country up there and they might try to see if you float..........
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
when I finally make it to my first meet... I'll get to face plenty of folks I've sparred with here on the board ... even Atlantic City put me face to face with a few... & that was all good too.
The fun we have here is different then meeting face to face from the get go... but Richard ain't the lone ranger by no means... nothing can be said that pleases everyone... & much of what his chosen marketing approach has to say has alienated more then a few folks... followed by his less then congenial first attempts at introducing himself... but I agree with Sonny... from the sample of advice posted... it has merit more then was implied by all the naysayers judging only from his website.
(by the way Sonny... I enjoyed reading your profile in SignCraft. I have it with me on the road & bragged to my family that I swapped a panel with you. I cherish mine even more after seeing your work published! I told my family that to have a profile in that mag is one of my lifetime achievement goals. Congratulations!)
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
Sonny, don't be scared, the meet is in Tewksbury MA this year, its almost NH, aint no puritans up there. Plus we havent linched any witches in months!
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
As a member of the Grand Poobah Exalted Pishposh Executive Directorate Politburo & Oligarchy, I strongly object to the suggestion that the Letterhead movement approves, condones or engages in cannibalism! It is a well-known fact that we have this problem relatively under control! Persons engaging in these slanderous and abomnible heresies will be cooked and ea... prosecuted! That's right! In a in a proper court! No cooking! By that I emphatically deny that anyone has been eaten raw! Or cooked! Recently, at least...
Posted by Joseph Diaz (Member # 5913) on :
Okay, I have to say something. I just couldn’t take it any longer. I would consider my self a newbie, a beginner and most importantly someone who still has a lot to learn. Someone that Richard believes he can teach through his video tapes. So, that would make me his targeted audience right? Yet I am not interested in purchasing his tape nor will I ever consider purchasing his tape. I believe that a good teacher should be respected and be an expert in his or her field. This is by no means a personal stab at Richard, but I find it hard to respect a person and consider a person an expert on a subject who makes statements such as: "Most sign work is LETTERS ONLY. Even if you have NO ARTISTIC TALENT, you can MAKE LOTS OF MONEY!! NOT A GIMMIK!!" And let’s face it, the web design and the examples on signtrainer.com could use some help too.
I do, on the other hand, respect most of the people on this board because I have seen their work and strive to someday match their quality. That is the type of people I want to learn from. That is why I like attending letterhead meets and wall dog events; to learn what I don’t already know. I think that Richard should also take this approach. Even the best teachers can still learn a thing or two. So, Richard, rather than snap back at people, who I am afraid to say did kind of started this whole thing, swallow your pride, be a man, and ask for some much needed help. I do it every day. There are plenty of extremely talented people on this board that I’m sure would be glad to help a person in your shoes. The only problem is that you have most likely already scared those folks off by your comments. If I were you (and I’m not) I would remove some of your statements that have offended so many people on this board, ask for some help and brush up on your design skills a little. A lot of the people on this board teach design seminars like David Butler for example. Pick up a Sign Craft and look at some of the beautiful work that is displayed in there every month. Dan Antonelli has articles in there all the time that I find very helpful.
Please take this advice. You would be surprised how much it might help. Then maybe more people might think about buying this tape of yours. Hey, then you might even make that a TWELVE figure income!
[ February 21, 2006, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: Joseph Diaz ]
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Well said Joe.
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
Again...Has anyone even seen the video? Why are we jumping to assumptions about the quality of the information it provides?
Here's a quote from me that's been in my profile on the past profiles page since Steve started doing them. I was one of his earliest.
"I considered myself a fairly accomplished artist, what could be so hard about painting a few ABCs?"
Does everyone here have to be a Gary Anderson to be considered an accepted sign person? I don't see the need to carve, gild, airbrush if you're only interested in vinyl. And if you're going to be a vinyl guy then you need to learn the basics of vinyl just as a sign painter needs to learn the basics of brush and paint.
Lets stop deciding what other people should/need to do because we say so. What ever happened to live and let live. Far too much judgement going on.
Posted by Ron Costa (Member # 3366) on :
G.P.E.P.E.D.P.&O.? Methinks its time fer a panel swap!
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Hey Cam pass the salt~ Posted by Joseph Diaz (Member # 5913) on :
quote: Again...Has anyone even seen the video? Why are we jumping to assumptions about the quality of the information it provides?
I am jumping to assumptions because I believe that the examples on his site and the site itself reflect Richards work and thus the lessons that are being taught on his video. The same way that a sign reflects the nature of the business that it belongs to. Which isn’t even my “beef” with the whole thing. The statements about not needing to be artistic is what upsets me. But obviously Richard truly believes this to be true. This isn’t the point. All I was trying to say is that if rather than being so confrontational about all of this he could have asked for some help or for alternative ideas that might help improve his image to the people of this board and more importantly future customers. I believe that actions such as this would have said a lot about a person’s character regardless of other people or my own opinions towards the quality of his work. Hopefully some day he will change his mind about how important of a role design plays in sign making.
Posted by Joseph Diaz (Member # 5913) on :
If you are interested Richard, I build websites. I’m not quite as good as some of the artist on this board but I believe I could help you out.
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
JOSEPH .. Again I say to you and others. I do NOT respond badly, rudely, harshly or anything other than NICELY to anyone who is reasonable in their statements toward/about me. If you look back at things I have written you will see a very CLEAR and CONSISTANT pattern, in that I only get a bit ( or a lot ) "Creative" in my comments to those who have stated mis-information and attacks FIRST !!
Most of those who have attempted to "SLAM" my soft parts in the door, do so out of some drive other than fairness. THere is not much of a way to deal with them, or convince them, since they have ZERO knowledge of my Training Video and the internet is a safe place to vent all of life's frustrations. I actually think that SOME of the posts are there to see if I can be wittier than them in my response, and do not even mean what they say. That is really a bit scarry, and I am glad they don't live in the same state or town as I do. There is more than ONE person who slams me one one forum, and supports me on another. ( I keep track ). I have no clue as to what THAT really means .
There are also, a number of members HERE who have STARTED OUT saying (somewhat) negative things and have since followed up with e-mails to one of my e-mail addresses that support me and apologize for the actions of SOME of the others. (These identities are VERY SAFE with me, and valued).
I have expressed myself with Fair but Equal responses. It is clear by many of the responses posted on THIS forum ( and others) that there is a [growing] group of readers who do NOT feel I have done anything wrong, and while even THEY may feel some of my comebacks could be softer, seem to be more WITH me .. than AGAINST.In a lot of these posts, they agree that I did not start the negative side, and seem to applaud my responses.
For YOU ... I hope you find this a Fair and Equal response.
Posted by Richard Dissinger (Member # 4880) on :
Again let me attempt to clear this up.. I never used the word "ARTISTIC" ... I have stated " You do not need ARTIST skills .." and this was well thought out at the time I designed it. This is at WORST a slip of the tongue aimed at MYSELF, in that I do NOT consider myself an ARTIST, with the ability to draw what I see or can think of, BUT... do consider MYSELF to be ARTISTIC, in that I can use, and manipulate clipart to create ANYTHING I want with no boundries.
The samples on my website reflect SOME of the work I have done, not all, not the most ARTISTIC since I am not pushing this type of training. I let others spend the time pushing the complexities of MASTERPIECES, while I shoot for, and train others to shoot for, the smaller, easier-to-sell, faster-to-finish, jobs that allow you to have more time, to produce even MORE jobs, to produce an overall higher income.
And Joseph .. with all due respect .. I did not come here to improve my website image, or look for help with alternative ideas, since mine seem to be working pretty well for me. I will state that I have changed my website(s) several times, and will do it again as I get new BRAINSTORMS (maybe a result of bad diet).
The one thing I do not want is a website that looks like "all the rest"... and from a show of hands HERE, I feel I have accomplished that.
Thanks for the response
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
quote:Originally posted by Steve Shortreed: Richard. If you are truly interested in a serious discussion, please knock off the links. We get the idea. Most of us are already longtime pros and probally not your target audience. If you do benefit from Letterville, send us a percentage.
Richard seems not to take direction from the Mayor too well, as he has resumed posting links at the begiging of each response. No brownie points that way Dude!
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Wait a minute. We want to go to Mass Mayham too!
It's time to join in as a Merchant Richard. Give Barb a call later on tonight at 519-787-2673 and we'll get you setup.
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It is a well-known fact that we have this problem relatively under control! 