since the pinstriping deja vu' was so much fun! some of the best times i had were painting billboards outside wiht older painters at lamar adverising . i was hird as an inside graphics guy with the tie and all that crap. but loved it best out painting. i remember burning the patterns inrto the paper.
i remember when someone came out with e-z-pour squirt bottles for lettering enamels. i even made a lil tray to carry them around in. my signkit had about 5 airbrushes, hoses lettering quills, squeegees for using transfer tape as a pattern. xacto knives for cutting all my patterns...god did i cut alot back then! and tape golore.
an overhead projector, many hours on that thing and i still have it. i use to design logos on the kroy lettering machine and i also used the overhead and would write on it with marker and copy the script onto paper and tweak it later. i still have most of those in attic...that was alot of time spent on a logo...but not time wasted, i learned and in doing all those things in the past i gladly embrace the computer and its ability.
things that i laid out in the past have helped me be a better designer today and beleive it or not my stuff has not changed that much...but i would never compare myself to the "jersey letterinng" that i once saw in sign magazines.
by the way there was a guy from canada that simply kicked ass....i think his name was bob behounek or something like that what happened to him? his stuff is still grinded into my mind although his name is not
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
Funny you bring that up because I was trying to remember how to get the Electro-Pounce to work today. I remember doing coroplas sponsor signs with fifty names and drawing fifty individual lines for letters cut on the Gerber. Hell, I remember weeding vinyl while it was still on the Gerber being cut. How is it possible we got by with only 8 fonts in our Gerber and never had a problem yet now I've got several thousand and still can't find one I want to use half of the time?
Remember Letraset, and how cool that catalog was because it gave you 1000 different fonts to project from? And file cabinets full of clippings of artwork and ideas to "steal" from later?!
And remember when you had to walk to school in the snow, uphill both ways?! I told you, quit acting old, dammit.
Posted by Dan Streicher (Member # 4515) on :
oh my and the weights to "control" the cutting pressure on the knife...the memories, I think all new sign makers should have to work with a 4B it would benefit them.
I remember cutting rubylith with a exacto, projecting the image onto it and cutting out the shapes for screenprinting...
We had a pressure washer that shot lacquer thinner that we used for cleaning the ink off of our screens, we called the room the "fume tomb" I was just a teenager then, so maybe someday if I have kids they'll be lucky and have my eyes....all 3 of them. EPA would never let us away with some of the things we did back then.
I spent whole days just cleaning journeyman's brushes and when that was done I got to use the least favorite brush in the shop....the broom. And I was happy to do it because I was learning a trade.
I remember all of our "old timers" brought in their own "coffee" in thermoses and they couldn't stop shaking in the morning until they had a cup or two....I think I could have cleaned brushes in their coffee but soon as the shakes were gone those guys literally blew my mind with what they could do with a brush.
We also did large format billboards, I really miss that, all these numbered panels that made no sense and you jsut put them up and hope they were numbered correct and when you were done it was amazing, like drawing from a grid but then making it a jigsaw puzzle.
oh I miss the craft
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
I miss the days when...
...cut, copy and paste involved scissors, a Xerox machine and rubber cement.
...designing a logo started with a pencil instead of a clipart CD.
..."auto detailing" meant you had it pinstriped.
...and so on... Rapid
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Ahhhhhh!..YES!
Mixing 50lb tub "Lead White" (Dana Oils) with other Dana Colours plus Linseed and Turps, Japan dryers.
Hanger panels 4'X10' made of sheet metal frames,
Paper Patterns in a projection room about the size of 75'x20'
Overhead Transparencies... Ohhh! The wall was full sheet metal..With a Electro pounce made from a neon transformer.. Broom Handle with 9" spike nail through the centre. We use to use a Stick pounce to reach areas that you chouldn't jump far enough to reach.
Yes I do Miss it!
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Bob was not from Canada, but the Chicago area. He still writes a monthly design article for SignCraft.
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
Wow, I don't remember any of that stuff, but then I suffer from "short-term" memory loss...
Ross Hurdle, Chester Cunningham, Lennie Cook, Emment Morelli, any of those ring a bell? ah yes, the memories...... Posted by John Lennig (Member # 2455) on :
Letteron Machine....one perfect letter at a time!
A "pen" device that you put in place of your knife/holder on the $B, it was a "water based fest tip pen" that you could put outlines onto vinyl in your machine, then cut the lettering. only about 2-3 colours available. ND carried them '87 times. Slick!
:)John
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
thumbnail sketches.... I rember when I would sit a customer down with my sketch pad and design right there on the spot... I still love doing them, sometimes its the easiest way to deal with a customer, and still get some artistic freedom over the final design. Sometimes its easier to get them to aprove a pencilsketch, then let them choose colors, typefaces, and sizes.
[ January 17, 2006, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: captain ken ]
Posted by Michael Boone (Member # 308) on :
why is it that nobody mentions the all time Hero......Duct Tape.????????? It never goes out of style......
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
One of the guys I worked with as an apprentice would tell me that part of his job as an apprentice was tending the horses when a wagon was brough in for lettering.
Posted by Teresa Bostic (Member # 6214) on :
Ah, the old 4B. I used to get so excited after keying in an x-y line program and seeing the finshed product plot off.
We only recently cleared out the old pattern bin. 3'tall, 4' deep and 20' long, stuffed full. We had a blast looking through them - saved a few heirlooms.
Posted by Murray MacDonald (Member # 3558) on :
longing for the good ol' days, guys? Come and visit my shop. Putting in a 4B would be modernizing, I might get an Electropounce one of these days...mine still have little toothed wheels, my computer has a point on one end and an eraser on the other, and what's an "overhead projector"? Dang, nostalgia ain't what it used to be. MUR
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
gee Nostalgia? My 4B still shows up for work on a daily basis.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Heck, even nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
edited cause I can't spell.
[ January 18, 2006, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
As of last year I no longer offer cave paintings or hand carved hieroglyphics. The demand for this kind of work has fallen off over the past ten centuries. I’ve tried to push it in my area but nobody wants this work anymore. I still get a few sarcophagus to gild but there aren't that many left. My last big account was for king Tutankhamun but he’s dead and gone and I’m getting up in years too.
I guess we have to accept that progress will force us to change our ways like it or not.
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
Goin' to truckers shops to letter semis and havin' truckers pull up lawn chairs, get out their coffee, spin a few yarns and watch me work. No patterns, just a snap line and some stabilos and just kind of wing it.
Letterin' school buses (sometimes 8 a day). Didn't put down a line. Pulled 1/2" magic transparent tape for top and base line and used the windows to eastablish center. #28 quill, 5" block copy with 1 Shot black out of tin cans. Still the best money I ever made.
I used to put my work orders on a clothes line with clothes pin. When the job was done it went on a block of wood that had a nail poked through from the other side. Things were simple and I couldn't even spell 'puter.'
I rigged up a metal drawing board that rolled along a wall for pouncing. Had some vemco drafting arms on it with plastic rulers and we used to electro pounce from transparencies of Dover alphabets using a stationary projector. The board moved -- not the projector.
I remember lettering pit crew names on race car roof posts--one by one while the customer read them off a sheet.
I remember striping bikes at Harley rallies with naked ladies riding around. I'm almost embarassed to say. WWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
But give me a fitch on a beautiful spring day lettering a large highway sign in the country and I'm in hog heaven. Sack lunch and all.....
Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
Bill Diaz...I've been there and enjoyed every minute of it.~! Thanks for the walk down memory lane...(Or at the Bike rally, Mamory Lane)
hahahahha been there, STILL THERE
Posted by Dan Streicher (Member # 4515) on :
I just gave away my 4b that I had in storage for the last....about 20yrs to a fellow sign maker that is going to display it we even had the engraver that attached to it, dang that thing was HEAVY
Posted by Jeff Ogden (Member # 3184) on :
Bruce
A little Trivia....Easy Pour was started by Annie Wrosdic from Archer Fla..any of you remember Annie? She's still doing signs and I've worked with her on a few projects...she's alot of fun.
As far as remembering back when....I remember wooden ladders...hard to tote around. Also how about drilling holes in masonry with star drills? Or lifting signs up on buildings with block and fall?
When I was young in NJ, there were still alot of signs that had glass letters , and light bulbs for illumination. I remember too when flourescents first came out. Everything else was neon or incandescent.
And my grandfather never could adapt to rollers...he remained a brush man all the way. We did alot of walls, and mixed our own paint. Used the old style scaffold hooks, with wood stage, ropes and pulleys. He used to say, "If you can lay it out by noon, you could finish that day".
Those older walldogs used to push themselves pretty hard...I think they all thought there was another sign guy out there watching them , so they had to put on a good show.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
How 'bout hand-cutting letter faces out of plex and the backs out of aluminum . . . on a bandsaw and scroll saw??
This is basically all I did for about 2 years at the shop I started out in. Drilling knock-out holes . . .cuttin aluminum strips, bending cans and tacking them on . . . a few black-burnt holes . . .yep.
Not to mention those wonderful magnets and all that lovely trim cap.
Ah, those were the days.
Not.
Sometimes I even got to paint a sign . . . In between letter-cuttin' work and trim-cappin', Ron was teachin' me hand lettering and pattern making on the occasional paint job that came thru. I also drew all the neon patterns, and sometimes I broke neon . . . but, that's another story.
I was also excellent at cleaning and organizing the shop, and Ron did'nt even mind me pouring over Sign-of-the-Times mags way past my break.
Hey, remember the 1" grid marking paper 48" x150 ft roll??
But 'Neon Ron' was into the bigger stuff . . . he had gotten the SHELL contract.
I was eating, drinking and sleeping SHELL letters.
Then this German guy, Pete came along . . . Pete & Wanda . . . y'all still out there??
Anyway . . . all of a sudden I was told I was about to lose my job to this giant 'machine'. This sounded fine to me, but I could'nt see how.
Flat on four legs it sat, like a huge, short, table. It took a coupl'a days for a team of people waving levels around to set it up.
Ron grinned like a cheshire cat and blew smoke in my face. "You've just been replaced by a computer."
It was hard to tell whether I should be offended by this tool or totally relieved.
I watched as they loaded a huge peice of sheet metal on the table and it began to cut out the 24" Shell letters . . . It also cut the white acrylic faces!
It sure could cut 'em quick! I was proud of the machine at first.
I was glad OF it.
Then . . . two of us . . . then 3 of us now, trying to stay ahead of the machine, cutting and welding cans, putting in stand-offs, trim-capping, finishing each letter, then packing . . . OMG. This is like 'GOTTA MAKE PRODUCTION. I was now overwhlemed trying to STAY AHEAD of the monster machine.
*SCREAM*
Anyway, during all this I was getting more side work, thanks to Ron. So I was goin' home every night and workin' in my living room and on Staurdays, 'til eventually I got a 10x16 building.
Then Ron sent me MORE paint work and I worked for him part time, 'til finally, I thought I could swing it on my own.
Thanks Ron!
Oh yeh, do they have computers that weld the cans and do the trim cap now??
[ January 18, 2006, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Sheila Ferrell ]
Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on :
I remember when we would be out on a Tiffin, panel repaint(bulletin board) on a cold morning and the paint would sag like mad...... I would pee in a can and then mix with my color to get it to stick. Learned that trick from an old journeyman during my apprentice days. It worked too ! Tiffin, panels were vertical, about 2 ft. wide and would be held together with pins from the backside. They were galvanized and heavy and the tallest ones were 16 ft. It was a flat out bitch to deal with in the winter. Bill Diaz, probably remembers those days.
CrazyJack
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
Taking extra art classes at school in the 50s to learn lettering construction.
First the basic block letter ... 5 squares deep and 3 squares wide. Then how to kern and distort it and fit it to a layout.
Progress to "Roman Lettering" with a rule, set-square and compass!
Didn't realise it then, but that knowledge now is priceless!!!
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
JACK!!
LOL!!
I'm SO glad I'm not old enough to remember that . . . Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
When I was in college, I worked for a month practicum at a local printshop. They did 'fancy setups' by hand. If they wanted to arc letters for a biz card, they first printed it out with the text on a straight line, then cut slits along the top between the letters, then manipulated the arc shape by hand. We'd run the lettering through the wax machine so the layout would stick to the paper before the cards were printed.
During another month practicum, I worked at the city's sign shop. I taught them how to use their 4b. They didn't realize that with x and y moves, you could stack lines of letters. They had been cutting one line at a time for YEARS. LOL OH, this was funny. They had no monitor. None. Talk about working in the dark. LOL!!
I use to do lots of design setup for a local tshirt printing place. The layers for colors were cut out of rubylith or amberlith. Lots of stuff was always hand cut with an olfa. The day he handed me this new fangled paper a computer could simply print on to achieve the same results was a fine day indeed!
Posted by Roland Pinan (Member # 2724) on :
Like the rest or you I too have fond memories of times gone by.While we still cut our share of the sticky stuff in this shop we still drag more money out of a can of paint than we do any thing else.Have computers have a router and all the other crap.Thanks to our striping side of the biz we still paint a good bit. As more people abandon the old ways the more valuble those of us become who still choose to keep our skills.I am charging more and more as fewer people even in city or area this large hand letter or hand stripe. I simply ask the customer if they want a hand painted or vynal stripe or sign. This work can still be sold.
Posted by Dan Streicher (Member # 4515) on :
oh Sheila and that NASTY cancer causing glue for attaching the trim cap...of course no resperator or gloves holding the trim cap in place by pounding nails into the table with the letters upside down while the glue sets up...I hated that part of the job
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Gee Dan . . . you must be older than I thought . . . LOLOLOL
We upgraded to magnets on a steel top table to hold the trim in place. I developed some seriously strong hands in those days!!
Remember shooting-matches with MEK? See who could squirt it the furtherest out of the needle . . .
I vividly recall turnin' around to see the boss standin' there staring at us for untold minutes in that glaring way, blowing ciggarette smoke, until apparently he thought we got the message and finally strolled away shakin' his head.
lol
Remember that stupid, AGGREVATING tool that made the 45's . . . trying to have perfect corners . . .
MEK causes cancer??
Oh well . . . what DOES'NT!
[ January 19, 2006, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Sheila Ferrell ]
Posted by Arthur Vanson (Member # 2855) on :
I was seventeen, occasionally subbing to another writer. He sent me to gild some windows for him. Name, “Solicitors and telephone number on each. It was his job and he’d quoted. He’d quoted for matt gold with no outline! Clear size, on glass, in reverse! I was too timid to refuse.
Still seventeen, subbing to the same writer, numbering the doors in the new dormitory block for a teacher’s training college. A teacher’s training college for females – females that giggled endlessly and skittered around in baby-doll nighties. I didn’t know where to look – but was determined to learn.
Eric Norman must have been one of the finest writers there has ever been. At first he seemed a little austere and haughty but I respected him deeply and found it very hard to refuse doing the “little letters” for him when his eyesight started to go. Even when accepting help he was very much in charge – he said when and he said where. This lead to me sitting in the snow attempting to gild the fading headstone of his Mother’s grave, on one occasion and, on another, standing on wonky scaffold, re-writing ¾ in. trajan on the memorial stone of some local alms houses, in one of the most bitter winter freeze-ups I can remember. It wasn’t all hardship though; we did do some fun jobs together.
Sensing someone behind, watching you work, and becoming a little more flamboyant with your brush strokes than absolutely necessary!
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
I guess what I miss most about the good old days is "putting on the show" Walking up to a wall, window, storefront, set of truck doors whatever with nothing more than a sign kit, a yardstick and a coke case and having at it. A crowd would always gather.
Nobody stops to watch sqeegeing.
Thank goodness for hand pinstriping!
I know a lof of sign painters that absolutely refused to work in front of strangers. I never had that problem............must be due to my wonderful personality Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
Probably what I miss the most are spring days in the boat yards, when one job would lead to half a dozen. And you'd have the wind in the mast stays, gulls, salt air, radios playing in the background, lunch on the bulkhead....of course doing those transoms on boats that were already in the water was a serious challenge. I always thought it ironic that some guy who wouldn't spend $100 on the sign for his business would spend $150 for boat lettering... and it was half the work with no materials cost.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
That probably developed from doing all those race cars, George.
Nothing like having the crew, sponsors and half the kids in the neighborhood slip in throughout the day watching ya make a blank car look like a race car with a couple of pices of tape, a ruler and lotsa paint.
Pulling off application tape lacks a certain sense of pinache... Rapid
Posted by Murray MacDonald (Member # 3558) on :
re Bill's post...what I find ironic is the guys who spend 50 grand on a boat and stick five and dime numbers on it. oh,yeah...lying on the swim platform trying to gild a name while the Seadooers are running by to watch! Thank gawd fer gin! MUR
Posted by Bill Modzel (Member # 22) on :
From the screenshop fringe.
Phototypositor. Fonts on filmstrips, expose one letter at a time on a strip of photopaper. Stick it in the copy camera and shoot it as a transparency. Stick it on the overhead projector and trace out the pattern on paper. Lay a sheet of amberlith on it and hand cut the pattern.
Enter 1989. Macintosh CI and Graphtec 2100/24". Three weeks later I was driving the whole darkroom down to Grand Rapids to a quick print joint. Unloaded it for the cost of the supplies that I had left and never looked back.
Posted by Louie Pascuzzi (Member # 1373) on :
Time flies, I find it hard to believe I'm old enough to have fond memories of the good old days.
We used to get by with a few basic alphabets, we didn't call them fonts back then. Plain Egyptian, Thick and Thin, Roman, Script, and plug or flood lettering. When you wanted to get fancy you would shade to the right.
We would spend a good part of the day on "the wall". That would be blowing up hand drawn artwork with a overhead projector, then pouncing it on the same homasote wall with a pounce wheel. The electro-pounce was a God send.
Always thought we struck it rich when we found a supply of Bon Ami cake that was used (and still is) for cleaning windows before a gold job.
My favorite memory was watching "Mr.C" Mario Carmosini hand lettering shocards at 80 years old. He was a master painter and teacher.
Posted by Kurt Gaber (Member # 256) on :
I miss the general public's perception of how talented we "were". Hand painting on glass or on a truck door, race car, etc... "Wow, are you doing that freehand?" When it used to irritate us to hear that, now I long for it.
There was alot more pride in having done certain jobs with a brush and paint and to see the satisfaction of the customer when it was all said and done, instead of..."Can you whip out some letters for my truck door?"
The thing is, it's not the customer's fault. It's the sign industries fault. Cheap plotters and software and calendared vinyl for sale for low, low prices allowing "anyone" to get into the biz has created the monster.
I'm also a victim of my own industry to some extent. I can still hand paint and have good layout skills, but I feel like I fell off the boat of creativity with my brush about 7 to 10 years ago. I think I only buy brushes at Letterhead Meets now. I get so charged up at meets to paint again... I wish I could keep that energy and enthusiasm to paint more signs, but I want to make sure that my product will last for my customers.
This may be a pretty sharp line to throw out there, but I've been disappointed with the longevity of the paint. I don't have the confidence that I used to with hand lettering a job or coating out an MDO background and expecting it to last outdoors for more than 3 years or so? Latex seems to be the fashion to get the longevity, but I just miss opening a can of lettering enamel and being able to rely on my ability and the quality of the product.
Long live Letterheads... if it weren't for Letterheads, the paint would be skimmed over forever.
[ January 23, 2006, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: Kurt Gaber ]
Posted by Roland Pinan (Member # 2724) on :
Kurt I agree with you about paint not being what it used to be.I am using a PPG hardener in my enamel and thinning with turps,this way you can clear with atomotive clear.I have just finished and installed 2 hand painted signs 100 percent water based paints from the primer up. There is a slight learning curve with these paints but not much.I used Ronan aqua cote for the lettering however I am getting ready to order a full supply of Rhino from Gary Anderson.As for the freehand thing when people ask me if I did that completely freehand I say well the left hand is free,it holds the paint but I charge damn good for the right hand.
Posted by jake snow (Member # 5889) on :
defuzzing 3/8" nap rollers...got me through puberty....
Sanding the edges of mdo cut out letters on a 10" disk put on the craftman radial...
hand lettering Chinese words on restaurants only to find out you had spelled something not very appealing....
setting up the 20' woodplank walk on ladder jacks on a 30' high billboard only to find that the pole holes were wallowed out so when you got on the walk, the whole billboard headed south 6'...
your first experience with the electropounce!!...
learning the value of a "lava" soap bar...
the first time you put a thinner rag in your back pocket...
someone said "your cheatin'" because you had a pattern..
good times...good times Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
quote:Originally posted by jake snow: defuzzing 3/8" nap rollers...got me through puberty....
You're killing me! Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
thinner rag in back pocket i did that ONCE! it takes a while but leaves a nice burning red spot on your body. after that you have no choice but to get naked. lol
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
but soon as the shakes were gone those guys literally blew my mind with what they could do with a brush.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)