Need to know a few things about changing some vinyl lettering on a flat paneled lighted sign. (Have done a few of these but back in the old days with a razor knife and paint.)
1st Question - This sign has vinyl lettering that needs removing...could that be done safely with Orange Peel, which is what I happen to have?
2nd Question - I am assuming I would use the translucent vinyls on this? What is the difference...the intermediate series look less transparent than the premium. I don't think this sign would be classified as a "bright" backlit sign so am thinking I should go with the premium, or more transparent series...would this be correct?
Any other words of wisdom on this are appreciated!
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
1) It depends on the type of plastic used. If its plexiglas I wouldn't be worried. If its lexan, you may have an issue with crazing.
2) If the sign is to last any length of time outdoors, always use premium.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Ya what glenn says,, Cheap trans will edge peel after a short while..
I use a good heat gun and some rapid remover to take off the vinyl and adhesive.. As long as its a smaller job and the is not sun stained. (which it will be if its older than says 20 months).
Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
Beth, early on I once used regular HP vinyl on a flat lexan panel, trying to cut corners. (sapphire blue) Unfortunately it was a lovely shade of black when lit. Love....Jill
Posted by Beth Jenkins (Member # 5542) on :
I'm fairly sure this thing is older than 20 months...so what do you do if it is sun stained? Will a ghost of the old lettering show? and will it be bad enough to not use the old sign face? Guess I won't know any of this for sure until I remove it...how does one go about pricing this? Give a price to use the old face and one for a new, if a new one is needed??
Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
Use gentle heat to remove the vinyl. Clean the residue. If there's a ghost flip the panel and use the other side. (unless it's lexan which only has one side for UV) Compare the cost of a new face to cleaning/relettering, it may be cheaper. Use translucent vinyls (and check the cost they are significantly more expensive)
Posted by Beth Jenkins (Member # 5542) on :
Thanks so much for the flipping tip! I don't think the thing is lexan, but will find out.
Posted by Mike Faig (Member # 6104) on :
Even though you flip it you may see sun staining. But at 60mph, 25 feet in the air and 50 feet from the road, does it matter to the client? Use translucent vinyls.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Often it is cheaper to use a new panel anyway. The labor involved to remove the old would take longer than its worth. Small panels are an exception. Get a sharp knife and try to peel the edge of the piece. If the peel curls its lexan,, If the peel chips its plexiglass. (usually)
Test two: Lexan is usually thinner,, plexiglass is thicker.
Posted by Michael R. Bendel (Member # 5847) on :
I'm with Chris.
The difference between labor removing old vinyl & cleaning adhesive is usually not enough of a savings compared to new.
If you opt for the old panel, make the customer aware that there could be a ghost image whether you flip the face or not & can not guarantee the results.
If it does look bad, your name will be the first thing out of there mouth when their "dirty" sign is noticed.
I try not get involved with "dirty" faces. I still do make that mistake & it seems every time I do it hurts my rep. more than it helps.
Posted by Carl Wood (Member # 1223) on :
Beth - straight up -using the sceniario you provided - I would price it with new acyrlic panel; Lexan or comparable polycarbonate; you MUST use translucent vinyl or it's not gonna look right at night - for black ya can use Oracal 651 - or equivalent. Will you be pulling panels down yourself or will customer take down & re-install? If you can easily remove existing copy from the panel; squirt it with Rapid Remover & clean it up; then youre that cost ahead - if not then you've quoted it high enuff to buy new plastic which is much less labor intensive anyway -
Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
Beth, here are a few steps I would use which I assume alot of you all would do. These are just in random order as they come to me. In Useing your information
1. Does all or part of the vinyl come off? 2. Location Walk up or distance? Ghosting may not be an issue. 3. High quality or Low quality sign? trans. or intermediate vinyl. 4. On location or in my shop?
With these and more questions it then helps put me in the right direction.
Now to help you. I have used heat and/or different solvents to remove copy. One trick that works great is to lay the face flat (If all copy comes off) and cover the face with newspaper, then when i put the solvent on it soaks up into the paper and I can leave it to curdle up the vinyl. Just like when you lay that rag with some spirits in it that you did not no was in the rag!!! and you layed it on a panel, to come back and find you did a great zip-strip job underneath. (OH I suppose Iam the Only One who has ever done that!!) I have used different solvents TEST what works best for This project. Glue-off, Xylene,etc. On to the Vinyl. If you dont use translucent vinyl in the shop it could get costly for one job. Again is it a High end or Low end Project. Intermediate Vinyl will work to replace some colors. I use my light-table to apply swatches to get color matches. HP vinyl will not work. I have even had to replace other signshops jobs where Translucents were used on back-it awnings with Intermediate because the Trans. peels away from there adhesives. There are alot of right ways but each project needs to be analized in its own way.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
quote: Intermediate Vinyl will work to replace some colors.
Why in the world would a PROFESSIONAL use intermediate vinyl on a backlit sign face???????
Posted by Beth Jenkins (Member # 5542) on :
I guess if the ghosting is so bad I can't stand it, I will explain the situation and recommend a new face. The reason I was even considering using the intermediate series is that the premium series looked almost too transparent, but I guess with the white background it will work out nicely, I hope. I also have found a place that will sell the translucent vinyl by the yard, thankfully. I also included a clause that I will not be responsible for replacing the old sign face in the event of breakage (other than mishandling) of the face in removal or installation, as I have heard that older panels can become brittle from the elements, anyone experience this? Sometimes I wonder what in the world I was thinking getting myself into all this?
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
YEs,, I did a 3 x 10 panel last year.. AS soon as it got out of the can it split right in half as soon as it flexed .. All fell on the ground and broke into pieces.. happnes all da time..
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)