This job is already in the works but I 'm tweaking the layout. It is a cabinet with pan faces. What do you think? Colors? Church trim is bronze... the brown is supposed to be bronze. Thanks
[ December 09, 2005, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
Posted by Felix Marcano (Member # 1833) on :
How about if you don't make the underline so thick?
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
I think that "Baptist Church" is too bold. I would move the graphic over to the right a bit and make it a little large. I would lengthen the seperating stripe. There is just too much negative space at the top of the name for my taste.
Hey, what do I know?
Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
I think the whole design needs more negative space around the edges. I find "Berean" difficult to read, especially with the graphic crowding the "B"
I think I'd do the old "arched" layout, BEREAN all caps, (straight top with curved bottom) put the graphic underneath, and placing "BAPTIST CHURCH" on the bottom....ya know?
Love.....Jill
Posted by Jeff Ogden (Member # 3184) on :
I don't like that blue with the bronze, unless the real bronze is darker. How about earthtones instead? Or maybe a lighter blue that is a little more on the green side?
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
What everyone else suggested
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
yeh Wayne, a thinner underline.
Y'all, I'm sure he means that the bronze is 'bronze' . . . that really dark-almost-black-brown (which will be more contrast)
Wayne, you could almost use black on the art which is closer to bronze than the brown shown.
Can you italicize the illegible copy in the bible graphic?? And take the earth/book logo and tilt it at a slight angle??
lol . . .So!
How picky is THAT of me . . .
Hey, there IS a lot of funny shaped negative space at the top of "Berean'. . .can you not enlarge the N on the end, or did we already have a thread about that . . .oh yeh, wait...that's helvetica . . . . Posted by Joe Crumley (Member # 2307) on :
Wayne,
Hello my friend.
Here is my take on it. Most business types have a Image Type that's very recognizable and accepted. For example: A used car business image is much different than a funeral home. In the same way that a hunting lodge should look different than a beauty parlor. It seems to me that churches, resthomes, Dr.& Denitst offices, apartment additions, etc should look less commercial. They should be convevial, soft, and welcoming. Less commercial.
I would suggest a much softer, spiritual look to the sign. Less commercial.
Are you kidding Si??? You been stuck on Jill's post using all "Hellvertical"
Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
Well, he obviously read my suggestion here... but he confused it with the Hellvetica challenge! Love....Jill edited to add this, the graphic would actually be yours.
[ December 12, 2005, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: Jill Marie Welsh ]
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hiya Wayne, Here's my suggestion
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Bob Nugent (Member # 3743) on :
I think if you made it all caps, the Berean would be less readable. My suggestion would be to make everything above the trim line a slightly lighter blue and leave everything else as it is. I think many of the suggestions are to commercial, this is a church and should be understated. I was always of the opinion that "knowing when to quit is ............."
Posted by Ryan Long (Member # 5881) on :
quote:Originally posted by Checkers: Hiya Wayne, Here's my suggestion
Checkers nailed it in my opinion...nice!
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
I made some modifications using some of your suggestions. Adjusted the kerning in "Berean" to reduce the negative space. Then lowered the height of the capital "B" and raised the word closer to the top border to minimize some of the excess space. An upper and lower case word does read easier and also, in this case, I think it helps the word relate more to the optic center than to the border. This typestyle is the same one I used for the Gemini letters in the photo below. I did, however use Futura condensed for the secondary copy even though I used Optima for the secondary copy on the building. I felt that it looked more balanced with the heavier secondary copy. Plasticized the first one in Corel 9, hence the shadow, trying to visualize the embossed letters. Got the depth a little extreme. On the logo, I decreased the thickness of the pages at the edges of the "bible" making the white space wider. Also italicized the letters as Sheila suggested. Darkened the bronze to look more bronze. Tried the earth tones like Jeff suggested. Thinned the separator line as several pointed out. On the "service schedule" and pastor name etc., I figure a small panel on the rectangular base, with less contrasting color, would work for that. The name needs toi be large as this sign is off the main drag and needs to be visible from about a quarter mile. Berean is 24'' high (upper case B) and, though not legible from that distance, "baptist church is 9'' high. What do you think?
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Doing 'Berean' in creme is a great idea Wayne. It makes the pages of the bible look whiter . . .
You could do the copy all creme and do that thinner line white too . . . sort of taking the white of the book and underlining the name of the church with it . . .
Looks like a good job to get... Y'all gettin' more and more cabinet/electrical work??
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
I like the creamy color better too, Sheila. I don't know if it will work though. Depends on if they can paint creme around the flange. If the lettering is creme, I would think that the flange would need to be as well. I will try the white line, see how it looks.
Sold my first cabinet earlier this year and built one myself about two months ago from a kit. It turned out pretty good. I already have this cabinet ordered but they are waiting on the eps file for the faces. Quoted a job two weeks ago but no word back. Will be doing a quote for another lighted job tomorrow and it looks promising. So, we're starting to pick up a few.
[ December 12, 2005, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Nice job on the redesign Wayne. The embossed would look too cool for a church
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
I see this so much and sometimes it bothers me alot and other times it doesn't at all. I ask myself sometimes, "what is it they are selling?" of course this is a church so they arent really "selling" anything, but what is it they hope to promote? I assume "Berean" is probably the town the church is in? so are they promoting the town? or the church? and how many churches are in the town of Berean, is it the only Baptist church?
Lets look at it in a literary sense, 3 words:
Berean Baptist Church
in order of importance, number the words 1, 2, 3
without too much knowledge of the job or the situation in which it will be viewed
i think i would do it like this
(3)Berean (1)Baptist (2)Church
especially if Berean is the name of the town, most people will know what town they are in at the time. By the looks of the building, you can pretty much tell its a church so the particular faith is what needs the most emphasis.
Don't get me wrong here, your layout, is visual pleasing and has certainly improved, the colors are great, the logo is nice, typestyles are great. just my personal design philosophy at work here. Of course i could be off target, and Berean may not be the name of the town, it could be a very important message, in which case your design hit it right on. who knows?
Posted by Tony Vickio (Member # 2265) on :
I agree with Captain Ken!
Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
Actually I think Berean is the "denomination" that the church belongs to so it proably would be most important.
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Thanks for the info and compliments, Ken. I could see that prioritization if it were the town's name. Its not a denomination and not exactly a brand. I would say it's an affirmation, declaration or "title statement" if you will.... for lack of a better description.
I did a little research and the name comes from an ancient Macedonian city mentioned in this passage:
Acts 17:10-11 10. And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
So I would categorize it (loosely) as a "business name" for lack of a better phrase.
[ December 14, 2005, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
Ok for design sake, lets look at it again. So, Berean is the type of Baptists they are, so there are really only 2 messages here
Berean Baptist Church
so Beran would have the same emphasis as Baptist. I do see commonly that churches usually like to emphasis all the words equally, which in most cases works, but tends to have a bit of a dry layout, so we as designers try to add jazz and punch by varying letter heights, or fonts or even distortions or outlines etc...
Does this case warrant 6" times bold for all 3 words? ....no, these people need some spirit, they are Baptists!
But what kind of Baptists?
BEREAN BAPTIST
which I think should be the main message, if anything is going to be less prominent it would be CHURCH seeing that it does have a steeple, a cross at the top of the sign and a bible graphic incorporated into the design.
Wayne try to look at this one differently, honestly the layout, although improved, seems a bit generic, like you could drop Baptist Church out and drop in Insurance Company, or Plumbing & Heating and still look the same, there is nothing that is "churchy"
does this theory make any sense?
[ December 14, 2005, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: captain ken ]
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Ken, Berean is the name of the church, not a denomination or type of Baptist.
Below you have just a sampling of names or partial names of Baptist churches. The ones in the first list are denominations or subdenominations and, normally, would not be used as the name of a church by simply adding the word "church" because they are a creed of which there are many. You could for example have two or three "independent baptist" churches in one city. So...each one of those three churches is going to need a specific name to differentiate itself from the other two. You couldn't say, "come visit us at the independent baptist church" because there are three in town ...OK? But you could say you are an "Independent Baptist" "Missionary Baptist" or "Freewill Baptist" meaning you are part of that denomination. So then...the way I see it, and I could be wrong, but it is now a unified entity..."Independent Baptist" being a denomination.
The ones in the list below are place names...names of their locations. You may or may not see fit to make these names larger or the main copy but I certainly think that you would use a different font for "Thomas Road" in "Thomas Road Baptist Church". But there is no denomination called "Thomas Road Baptist". And...In the phrase "Thomas Road Baptist Church" there is no denomination stated.
2 Thomas Road 1 Baptist Church
Thomas Road Baptist Miller's Ferry Baptist Oak Ridge Baptist Pebble Creek Baptist Salem Baptist (could be Salem, Massachusetts OR the Salem in the Bible)...or the might smoke Salems
The ones in the list below were taken from scripture and are not the names of the churches' locations. There is no denomination called a "Mt. Pisgah Baptist" "Grace Baptist" or a "Berean Baptist" at least not that I know of.
Mt. Pisgah Baptist Mt. Zion Baptist Bethany Baptist Grace Baptist Calvary Baptist Berean Baptist Smyrna Baptist Philadelphia Baptist
Now... If you have a pastor come to you for a sign and says that the name of his church is Calvary Missionary Baptist Church...how would you prioritize that?
1 Calvary (the bible word or statement...the name of the church) 2 Missionary Baptist (it's a sub-denomination) 3 Church (what it is..to differentiate it from a school or seminary etc.) or
1 Calvary 2 Missionary Baptist Church
I think maybe either of the above two could work But maybe not on one line for the second one.
I'll do some more research.
[ December 15, 2005, 12:35 AM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
this is in interesting removal for the normal way of thinking, I wish more people would give there thoughts. At any rate I think that the statment "Berean" should not over state the title "Baptist Church" as much as it does here, and the typestyle for it should have a bit more flair, the layout is just to stiff for such a spirited faith.
I really am a little too far north to run into too many Baptists of any flavor.
what ever you do don't use inital caps on a sign for the First United Church of Karlsburg..... that would be a definte design problem.
[ December 15, 2005, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: captain ken ]
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
quote:this is in interesting removal for the normal way of thinking,
Normal? ...What's that?
Yes, would like to see some more input on this too.
Try prioritizing this locaL church name... just down the road from here:
Yes Lord Deliverance Church of God in Christ
[ December 15, 2005, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
on another side note here..... hve you thought about removing the graphic from the main face of the sign and placing it, non-lit, as a raised panel on the pedestal of the sign?
As far as the Yes Lord, deliverance church? I aint touching that one. Why are they "in Christ"? should they be "of Christ"? just sounds like Jesus ate them and now they are 'in' him....like Jonah IN the whale...
[ December 15, 2005, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: captain ken ]
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