I'm taking a air brush coarse and am finding I need 50lbs psi for my Iwata and 25 lbs. psi for my Paashe.Does this sound about right????Should there be this much difference?
Posted by Bevin Finlay (Member # 2159) on :
Hi Randy; where or what type of course are you taking?
50 lbs seems a little high, but it depends on what you are spraying for paint and consistency, whether you are in close for detail or pulled back for broader coverage. Alot is by feel and trial. I work between 20 to 35 or so with my BC model and a little higher with my larger background brush. The Iwata can handle the higher pressure. As for the Paashe, I would just throw it away! OOPS! just kidding buddy, don't everyone have a cow on me now! haha!!!
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
nope, that doesnt make sense.... the same pressure should be good for both airbrushes. unless your using different painrs in them, or using them for different applications.
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
Thanks for replying Bevin good to see you here.Interductory coarse at Mohawk college.We are filling the board evenly and can only have one tone.The other is to go dark to lite without transition lines.Using createx and found the iwata spitting,could the paint be to thin??? Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
General rule of thumb...
The more pressure you have, the more overspray you will produce.
I typically run my Paasche VLs at about 30-35 PSI and use them for larger spray patterns. For finer detail, I prefer the Iwata Eclipse. At about 15-20 PSI there's less overspray and more control up close.
Rapid
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
Randy it depends on what media you are painting on. I took a class from Jurek and he advised shooting at about 50 psi and the media was unprimed canvas duck. I took an advanced illustration class from Dru Blair and shot at about 20 - 25 psi, using CS-10 illustration board. I was using an Iwata Eclipse for the Jurek class and an Iwata Custom Micron for Dru's class. If you have a hard surface you use less air pressure.
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
thanks for all the feed back.I think I will Practice with only one to get use to it first. Posted by Bevin Finlay (Member # 2159) on :
The spitting problem is usually too thick a paint mixture or air pressure too low causing improper paint atomization or a combination of both. I find those airbrush paints like createx are a little thick, even if they are supposed to be ready to spray.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Createx MUST be thinned, I don't care what anyone tells you it's just too heavy to go through an airbrush straight from the bottle. Says right there in the Paasche manual whatever you're spraying should be about the consistency of milk, and that's a pretty good reference when you're just getting started. Once you get more familiar with the airbrush you can experiment and see what works and what doesn't.
Also, waterbased paints like to dry up on the tip of the needle so make sure you wipe it clean every couple of minutes of use. This could be a cause of the spitting as well, usually characterized by the spray being nice and uniform at first but progressively getting worse the more you use the airbrush.
Since the Iwata has a smaller orifice (better for close detail work) it will clog up faster than the Paasche.
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
Mike and Bevin are right, check out the Iwata RG-80 detail gun. It's also known as a "jam gun". You can load that baby up with a good pint of paint, fan it out to about a 6" spread (comes with a round tip too) and lay down some paint with no transition. It also shoots heavier bodied paints with no problem but you will probably need to thin the Createx a little.
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
I took my brushes apart last night and found some dried paint still in the necks.I was having a hard time getting it out until I started cleaning them with rubbing alchol.I'm going to buy a large bottle today.Thanks for all the tips.Randy.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Above advice is right on. Also, Createx is a heavy bodied paint and requires a larger tip and needle than what comes with most airbrushes. I can't remember the exact size but the recommended needle and tip are the largest size made for airbrushes.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
If you want some real fun with the VL's, mix and match the needle/cone/air cap sets. You can get some nice combinations and tailor the spray to your liking. I even have aircaps that give an oval spray pattern like a regular spray gun can provide.
By the way, I generally like 25psi when I'm doing simple fades, bevels, etc.
I know our buddy RT likes 90psi, a carry-over from when he used to do a lot of t-shirts and needed the pressure to drive the color into the fabric. I tried using one of his airbrushes at Fred's meet one year and the pressure blew my hand back from the surface, wasn't expecting that much pressure! Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
There is a dial in front of the trigger on my vls paasche-can someone tell me what this for??? Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Randy that dial adjusts a limit on how far forward the needle can go.
In other words, when you turn the dial, it pushes the trigger back and opens the needle. You can set this if there's ever a time you want the needle open at a set amount without having to hold the trigger in that position.
Posted by John Largent (Member # 4606) on :
OK, lessee if I can be of any help . . . While I teach Custom paint and airbrush, I'm nowhere a Mike Lavallee (However there is a nice article about me in the current issue of Auto Graphics) . . but here's some solid information . . . .
Iwata, on most of the "Detail" arbrushes recommends 10/25 psi while Paasche recommends 20-30 psi . . . and it varies with other brands, but usually not more than 30 (with exception is some cases)
However, it has a tremendous difference in what material you are using . . I find when using PPG DBC I can drop my pressure to about 9/10 lbs when using "Over reduced" material, while the Iwata HP-C+ requires a little more to do the same thing . . . Auto air needs a little more pressure as it can't be reduced quite as much to be effective. Also, your individual "Feel"has a lot to do with it . . Your speed of stroke will make compromises necessary, as everybody dances different . . . .
As far a which tool you prefer, it doesn't matter . . I can do the same work with a Paasche Millenium as I can a Iwata HP-C+ and in some cases better . . that has no bearing on the tool, it's what you do with it and how comfortable you are using it!
For fine work, I use a Paasche Milennium with the fine VSR needle in it . . and the reason I use the Mil instead of the VSR, I can use a Paint Picker Aircap on the Mil.
I have found the the Gravity feeds don't work well when using heavy pearls because the pearl goes right to the bottom and then it's either spitting or clogged!
And I use a Paasche more than I do an Iwata primarily because the students I teach usually have to get the best gun they can for the Buck and we have found the Paasche VL Set is the best entry level set for the money (less than $60) and I like them to think they are using essentially the same tool I use . . . .
Posted by Ralph Kelly (Member # 6087) on :
diffrent airbrushes require diffrent pressure.the iwata requires 35 psi's as a vega 2000 requires 60 psi's.as for thinning createx.i've been airbrushing for about 3 years and publicly for 2 and i've never had to thin cretex..paint tip dry is normal for createx white...
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
I have been Airbrushing for to many years that I can remember....I use Iwatia.Badger,T/C,Verga...
I find that paint and air pressure goes hand in hand with the substrate you are working with.
Example:
"Demim Work"... requires a heavier paint(Createx) with a higher air pressure to soak into the textile.
"Leather Vest or Jacket"... needs more thinned out paint(Createx) with a lower pressure so that you don't blow out spider webs or blotting as you work.
Also time between lines is important to allow the last strip to dry enough for you to hit it again.
"Cotton Shirts"... are something that needs a low pressure as well as thinned out paints and to be hit with a heat gun as you are working... Or your paints will mix like Mud, instead of overlayering.
"Artboards"... is the same in the sense of is it a soft pulp finish or a hard surface finish..
What effects are you after?
"Helmets,Bikes,Vehicles"...
are all pre-wet sanded to allow (TOOTH) and should be treated as a hard surface with low pressure and thin-out paints.. but as well as cure or heat time between lines.
I find that most times you have to cover over a line more than once.... So the principle of less is more is "My rule of thumb."
I can correct a fine line mistake with shaping then having to worrying about a heavy lined mistake.
Substrate,Substrate,Substrate.........
Airbrushes are the fine line "Drawing Tools" and not Spray Guns.. Spray Guns are used to paint the backgrounds of the artwork
You can push ANY,ANY liquids through this tool to create effects on your work... But knowing the results and how to apply them is the key. Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
Went back to practice again last night and had a problem.The iwata started blowing air into my paint supply,when I took my bottle off there was no suction it was blowing air out??????I had paint blow out the air hole. Posted by Jack Davis (Member # 1408) on :
Randy, Your air cap is probably not tightened down well enough.
A lot of good info above, but here are my experiences. 1.There is a maximum thickness of any ink or paint that you can force through a given airbrush smoothly. That would have entirely to do with the needle/nozzle size and how well they are machined and polished. 2. Any paint thinner than that, can be applied usually with varyed success, depending on the air pressure used. 3. The thinner your paints, the less air pressure that you need to use, but the slower you can work for detailing. i.e... you can shoot water consistency at 3 to 5 lbs. and achieve fabulous detail with no clogging. Granted, it is slower and with too much pressure will cause blowout, but at the same time works perfectly with practice. Typically with an Iwata B size (.18 needle and tip) I use about 15 pounds of air at a milk consistency. I have turned to acrylic urethanes for all my work. I much prefer it.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
CLEAN! CLEAN! CLEAN!
After the fact of Each Paint Job, with the right solvents.
Soap and water on Acriyl Paints. Spirits on Minerial Paints. Etc:
Remember each time you use the A/Brush it needs your last attention in the job process... CLEAN ME! ................................................. "Pipe wire cleaners! as well as a "Tooth brush! " .................................................
Good Air and Paint flow..... Bubbles only happen when one or the other is not working...
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
I can't even get through 3 minutes of painting and it @#$%$ up.in sted of sucking it's blowing the paint out the air hole all over the #$%@# place.changed the air pressure cleaned again and it does it all over again.Whats wrong????? edit to tell you I also broke the dam tip on my Iwata which will cost me $65.00.
[ October 24, 2005, 08:18 AM: Message edited by: Randy Campbell ]
Posted by Jack Davis (Member # 1408) on :
Randy, If you are using the paasche, you have a loose cap on the front (probably), or you have the wrong combo of needle and tip. It is nearly always a loose cap. If neither of these work then try thinning more.
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
I'm using a Paashe but how do you know which combo is right when it work proper??? I'll give it a try.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
From the sound of all you have posted, your Iwata is dirty and has been from damn near the git go. They can be maddening when it comes to cleaning. The fact that you need twice the pressure in the Iwata says something is wrong with it unless you've got a tiny needle in the Iwata and a hog in the Paasche. The fact that you can spray with the Iwata OK and the it starts screwing up also points out you're getting something off ( mixturewise ) when you are thinning it. I've run into problems before spraying waterbased and have had to add a drop of dishwasing detergent to the mix to stop the spitting. Like Steven, I can't stress cleaning enough.
Posted by John Largent (Member # 4606) on :
When using an Airbrush, as has been said, "GODLINESS IS NEXT TO CLEANLINESS" . . .
That having been said, your problems with "Backflush' is caused by paint accumulation in and around the opening in the aircap around the needle orfice . . I recommend keeping a Q-tip, wet with the solvent or reducer of the material you're using, and every so often swab out the cone inside the aircap . . if using a Paint picker aircap, remove it and clean the backside . . .
Also I recommend you use the slowest (High Temp) Reducer possible, for two reasons. First, your tip and Aircap isn't so prone to dry material and spitting. Second, the soft edges you use an airbrush for, will adhere clear out to the edges (Look Ma, no Dust!).
An Airbrush can readily be compared to a Llama, warm and fuzzy when kept well . . Cantankerous and spitting when neglected . . Take good care of your Llama!
Also, one other admonition: IF YOU CAN'T DRAW IT WITH A PENCIL . . AN AIRBRUSH IS JUST GOING TO COMPLICATE YOUR LIFE! It won't make you an artist, if you were'nt already!
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
![[Bash]](graemlins/bash.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)