A woman who lives in my parents building has been bugging me to put some graphics on her car. Black car and she just wants a 1" red stripe down the side with some silver ... few doo-hickeys and mini graphics. I plan on just masking off the stripe and filling 1-shot. The silver I would like to do with aluminum leaf.
Nowhere in the plan is re-clearing major chunks of the car for a couple inches here and there.
What should I clear the leaf with? Can I brush it on?
I can probably bug a few friends for a small cups worth of something.
What size (OS fast/LF slow ... I have both but which would be best for this application)
Posted by bill riedel (Member # 607) on :
Mark, Sikkins Autocryl is a two part clear that is excellent for brushing. Two parts clear to one part hardener. If you use the LeFranc slow size or mix it with the slow you will not have to worry about loosing the tack before finishing laying the leaf.
Posted by bill riedel (Member # 607) on :
I meant to say mix the quick with the slow, sorry about that.
Posted by Luke Scanlan (Member # 2481) on :
Mark, it's been my experience to cover gold on vehicles with automotive clear. I add a couple of drops of catylist (hardener) in with the clear, and apply with a brush. This will give you the protection, and gloss that you desire. I've used marine sparr varnish, and 1 Shot clears in the past. Nothing seems to look as good, or hold up like the automotive materials though.
Posted by Dana Bowers (Member # 780) on :
Mark... call Bruce at the shop 716-692-4248.
We just did the PT back in June with the aluminum leaf and clear. We taped of the area where the clear would go, and scuffed it. Then we taped it off just a smidgen in, for the leaf.
Bruce will tell you what size to use... just DON'T use One Shot fast size! Ask him why...
He can tell you more the step-by-step details, and exact products.
Heck, I bet you could even talk him into helping ya out if ya want!
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Oneshot size is good if the graphic is small. The stripe we did was too big to use the OneShot size. The size tacked up too fast for me to do the engine turning.
I used LeFranc quick size for the stripe. The tack window was good and allowed me to spin the leaf with excellent results.
Someone told me about using an intercoat clear to put down before the clear and I plan on trying this out. The catalized clear will stick to the leaf but, from what I was told, the intercoat will act a firmer binder between the leaf and the clear.
I let the leaf set overnight before I cleared. I am just paranoid as I know others who whip the clear on as soon as they are done burnishing.
Just remember to scuff the clearcoat before sizing. The clear coat will not bind well to the factory clear without scuffing.
I learned from other people's pain besides my own... hahahahahahahaha!
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
Mark; if you use "Wunda" waterbase size, all problems discussed so far become moot...wonderful stuff, will spoil ya...Letterville Sign Supply might carry it...ask Kristi
Bruce, I believe the reference was to using DuPont's 222 adhesion promoter prior to sizing...which has to be sprayed...to thin to brush...same with inner coat clears, have to be sprayed...also some of them have very aggresive solvents and will lift all other than "Wunda" size...
Posted by Michael Boone (Member # 308) on :
whats the window on Wunda?
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Frank, will clearcoat provide enough protection for Wunda since it's not really for outdoor use?
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
M; window is too cool!!! 15 minutes/24 hours...gotta love it!!!!
Mike; it doesn't matter, size is entombed...
Posted by Mark Matyjakowski (Member # 294) on :
Thanks for the info! I will, for sure, be getting some wundasize ... at least to play with first.
Small amounts of clear have been offered (I'll only need a few dips of the brush worth)
Now I just have to decide what I want to do to this poor womans car ... bwahahaha
Bruce, you may be hearing from me soon
Posted by Doug Fielder (Member # 803) on :
I was just hanging out with Glen Weisgerber on Monday and he uses 1-Shot size, then gilds and turns and then re-sizes the leaf. After the second coat of size is dry 1-1 1/2hrs. he throws on Sikkens Cetol Gloss Marine Varnish. Then the next day he will coat it again with the varnish, he has been doing this for 8+ years (I think he said 15 years), and nobody complained yet. Anyone who has seen his stuff knows it is top notch. Everyone I know who clears their leaf with automotive clear (besides clearing the whole panel) has had trouble and every couple of years tries something new. I haven't even been lettering for 15 years, and I know the automotive clears I have used have already broken down on a couple gold jobs. Why don't you use signgold? Oh wait, they didn't have the common sense to use aluminum leaf on their silver stuff so it can actually be used.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Posted for Brian Briskie. Important info regarding SignGold.
Doug,
In reading your post regarding Mark Matyjakowski's laying of aluminum leaf on a vehicle, I picked up on your negative comment regarding SignGold. I don't know if there is some past bad blood between you and the company, but it's not the first time you've made such a comment. (In a recent post about burnishing, you noted that you tend to use a certain surface treatment to differenciate your gilds from that "SignGold crap")
I count Mark among my friends, we only live a half hour away from each other, and I've already offered to help him with this project. I still do an awful lot of traditional gilding, and have offered hm both assistance, as well as access to the clears that I have great luck with (I've been using Omni MC260 for about 8 years now, and it hasn't failed me yet)
Not knowing what, if any problem(s) you had with SignGold products, I can only ask that you contact me at 845-764-0059 between 8 am and 5 pm weekdays (Eastern time), and I will gladly try to assist you with any questions or concerns.
Now as far as your recent comments about SignGold not using aluminum, I'll fill you in on that.
First, SignGold Corp is a division of the Quick Roll Leaf Manufacturing Co, the world's largest and oldest manufacturers of precious metal films. The company is respected worldwide and is considered to be at the top of their game in the processing of gold and silver into stamping foils and films. This third-generation family owned business takes great pride in the fact that they have stood by their guns, and never produced any products based on anything less than genuine precious metals. Aluminum unfortunately does not fall into that category
Secondly, the process in which SignGold products are manufactured require the use of PVF base materials, as opposed to the PVC that almost all other vinyls are built on. Aluminum will not adhere properly to PVF (nor will copper, or lesser grades of gold for that matter), and aluminum vaporizes at to low of a temperature, wherein gold and silver will both vaporize at roughly 2200 degrees farenheit. So even if SignGold DID want to make an aluminum product, it would require an entirely new manufacturing process and equipment.
I just wanted to clarify those points for you, and again, invite you to contact me with any question or concerns; but the negative comments on the bullboard don't do anyone any good...so if there is ever a problem, please call me.
Steve, I copied you on this, as Barb once offered to post on SignGold's behalf if there was ever the need.If you could copy the pertinent points in this to the board, I, and the company, would be appreciative.
I thank you both for your time.
Keep on keepin' on,
On behalf of the SignGold Corporation, Brian Briskie
Brian "The Brush" Briskie
Brian The Brush World Headquarters PO Box 885 Adams Basin, New York 14410 585-349-3388
thanks Brian, I have also wondered about signgold silver, what about using platnium? would it withstand the process and be good outdoors or would it be just too expensive?
wait now I am way off the original post...I still have a can of Ditzler enamel clear that I use right out of the can on gold, I also have some one shot, sign finishing clear, Im not sure either one is in productiion anymore.
did you say Glenn Wisegerber?!? good to hear he is still alive and still in the trade. He is truly a gem in this business, a great craftsmen, fantastic creativity and skill, and a total freak! wish there were more like him around here.
So Steve, is Brian allowed to send responses in to you to be reviewed now? or only on SG related issuses? What is the worse thing you could do to Brian Briske, ban him or censor him? I could think of a few people here whos posts should be reviewed before posting, lol!!
Posted by Doug Fielder (Member # 803) on :
Hey Ken,
Brian and I had a conversation yesterday about this, he said that platinum and palladium aren't able to be vaporized to beadhered to the sheeting, A. platinum is too much $$$ and palladium takes too much heat. As for Glen, he is alive and well, doing even better now than ever. I have known him for about 7 years, and he inspires me to reach for the top. After 37 years of practice, he can knock-em dead everywhere. Allaround great guy and the definition of "Letterhead".
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
If anyone has questions about how we choose to conduct our business, we are available by phone 9am-Midnight 7 days a week. Don't use this forum or hijack other's posts to voice your views on subjects that we view as our personal business.
I realize their are a few that are not happy about Letterville or our view of Letterheads. After years of trying, I now realize I will probaly never please everyone. My advice is to turn the channel.
Please don't attempt to use this forum to debate the above. Call or email.
519-787-2673 steve@letterhead.com
Posted by Kurt Silva (Member # 257) on :
Just a note on Bruce's thought on using an intercoat clear. I have experience here. I used PPG'S DBC500 over (sprayed) some alum leaf to protect it until the painter could do the topcoat clear. He had to mask off a small area to do a repair. When he pulled the mask, the DBC500 all came with it. So I wouldn't recommend using intercoat clear over alum leaf.
Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
I was in the paint cabinet today and I saw i had some HOK striping eurathane u.v.clear, I had heard from John K. that he used it a a super quick size for small graphics that needed to be cleared quickly, i havent used it as a size but I would bet its great for top coating gold, use their stripping reducer and a few drops of the hardener i bet that stuff sticks awesome.
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