What type of paint will adhere to vinyl lettering and are there certain vinyls to use for this? I have always done hand lettering with 1-shot and used the same for airbrushing highlights in the lettering.
Say a customer is going to install the vinyl themselves and they want airbrushed highlights.... Can I cut the lettering on a vinyl cutter, airbrush with 1-shot, let it dry, then apply a low tack application tape over it??? I'm thinking this will pull off the airbrushing and will take too long to dry.
I see Krylon being mentioned some on here....is there a special line of Krylon for airbrushing or another brand that dries fast and adheres to vinyl and where can I get it? Also, any tips on what brand of vinyl/ application tape? Would hate to spend time airbrushing then have it all come off.
Posted by Jim Upchurch (Member # 209) on :
Some people use automotive paints, One shot (or any enamel) won't dry on vinyl, but the least hassle best adhering stuff is vinyl screening inks. They are nasty and you must use a respirator, but you should anyway. No clearcoat is necessary with them either, they bond to the vinyl, probably on some molecular level, you won't be able to scrape or pull off any color.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Here we go...
There are paint receptive vinyls out there that will take One Shot, Createx and a number of other paints. Krylon "Fusion" paint will also adhere to vinyl. It's available at many hardware stores.
Here's one way to do airbrushing on vinyl...
Cut your vinyl, but don't weed it. Lay it out on a table and spray some One Shot UV Clear aerosol onto the vinyl (just a dusting, not to shine) and let dry overnight. Airbrush with 1Shot paints, let dry overnight again, and then weed and tape as usual. The UV Clear will act as a bridge between the vinyl and paint.
Hope this helps... Rapid
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
I like vinyl screenprinting inks and even automotive rattlecan lacquers work pretty well.
If you have a hobby shop nearby that sells radio controlled models, they likely carry Pactra's paints which are formulated to bond with the lexan and polycarbonate R/C bodies. It works well on vinyl and they have a WIDE selection of awesome colors.
I like the screenprinting inks the best though. The odor is horrible and it lingers, but that stuff is NEVER coming off the vinyl. It also lasts a LONG time because it's thicker and you just thin some down when you need it. 4 or 5 years ago Nazdar sent me a sample, a partial pint of white from their GV Series inks and I still have half of it left.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
For another flavor all its own, here is my method that works consistantly.
Use 3M vinyl, coat with Chromatic ticote, let dry and test adhesion with a piece of masking tape as described on the can. Once the test is done and tests positive, spray with one-shot as you want to. let dry. Coat with one-shot UV clear let dry overnight and mask.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Ditto's what Ray said... airbrush before weeding . . .
I used to use Mid-Coat Adhesion promoter before airbrushing or hand-brushing Oneshot on vinyl.
Recently tried the Krylon Fusion directly on the vinyl. Left it over-night, then weeded & masked as usual. No problems with the paint lifting. Posted by Del Badry (Member # 114) on :
A lot of automotive supply shops sell a product called SEM made for spraying vinyl body parts... awesome stuff.. comes in spray cans or quarts.. i use it and Nazdar for colors i cant make with sem...
both stick like a hobo to a hotdog..
Posted by Dawud Shaheed (Member # 5719) on :
good stuff , Im a spraypaint technichian, I,ve found that rustoleum country colors works well too. dries fast like krylon, but it has a matte finish.
Posted by Beth Jenkins (Member # 5542) on :
Thanks for all the tips! Am used to picking up the phone and calling my dad with any sign painting questions- but he's from the old school- when it comes to vinyl or computers- I'm on my own!
Thanks for putting that tip in there about not weeding first....I know that'd have been something I figured out AFTER I already weeded it!
Posted by Doug Fielder (Member # 803) on :
One way I have done it was to scuff the enamel receptive vinyl with a scotchbrite pad and with a lot of hardener in the paint, brush or airbrush as usual and there you go. I have a Bull dog on the back of my truck, and after 3 years of harsh salt and lack of care, the vinyl's edges are lifting, but the paint is still stuck.
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Beth, one more tiny tip.... after you cut the vinyl, take a Sharpie & outline the graphic you are going to airbrush so you can see it better. Do this whether you are airbrushing , or just using Krylon (Krylon Fusion has never let me down) or some other spray can of paint.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Bobbie..I just got in tonight and was going to suggest the same thing you did...But I use a china marker to do the outlining..A white one for dark vinyl and a black one for lighter colours.
Beth...I have had excellent results using automotive basecoat/clearcoat paints. I just clean off the cut vinyl with any wax and silicone remover, do my airbrushing, wait an hour or so and then weed.
For translucent vinyl, if it going on the outside of white sign faces, I just use the basecoat. (same kind of "matte" finish")
For general boat, vehicle or sign work that require hi-performance vinyl I also spray the clearcoat.
If only using basecoat, the vinyl can be weeded within 15 minutes or can wait until the following week. If also using the clearcoat I HAVE to weed within 1-2 hrs after the final coat.
Posted by Alan Ackerson (Member # 3224) on :
Hey Beth,
Great advice here!
After using most of the processes mentioned above, I have recently converted to House of Colors and have to say, (in my opinion) is hands down the way to go.
We have been using the pearl basecoats with great success, spraying, then Frog Juice or OS Clear.
Now experimenting with the lettering enamels. It is a bit tricky having to mix the catalyst, paint and clear before spraying...still working on it. (Thank You Bill and Jane for the help!!!)
If anymore info is needed, shoot me an e-mail or call and I will help you the best I can.
Posted by Alan Ackerson (Member # 3224) on :
Quick question for Dave but keeping the post on track.
What kind of auto paint, and how long before you can apply transfer tape after clear coating without effecting the finish? Hours, days, a week?
The HOK dries like iron in a few minutes, allow a little extra for gasing before clearing.
Thanks!
Posted by Frank Manning Jr. (Member # 2699) on :
For those of you using 1Shot...1st..use enamel receptive vinyl...2nd, wipe on a coat of Chromatic Ticote (either matt or gloss...your choice, using a rag or brush). If you don't have enamel receptive vinyl, definately coat with TiCote....If you are using receptive vinyl, coat it anyway.. It's cheap insurance and then cut on the plotter. The Ticote is water based and will dry quickly, don't weed and do your airbrushing using a little hardner (about 5%) allow to dry over night and weed and transfer. The Ticote also works well with other types of paints. You could also use a solvent based adhesion promoter like Dupont 222S or 2322S or another Mfg's similar product. You don't need much. FYI for any of you who didn't use an enamel receptive vinyl and the paint didn't dry....over-coat the project with TiCote..It can be brushed, rolled or sprayed..It will cure the wet paint and allow the project to be handled in short order.It also has UV screeners in it so it will help protect the project. I would also NOT suggest using 1Shot's 4005/4015 UV Acrylic Clear Coat as a base coat before airbrushing... If the vinyl is NOT enamel receptive ...It won't dry either.
[ July 11, 2005, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: Frank Manning Jr. ]
Posted by Mike Paul (Member # 4200) on :
I've had great luck with 3m enamel receptive Clear 220/225. >Cut the graphics. >Outline them with a perm. marker so you can see what you are spraying. >Roll 1 shot base color onto vinyl. The marker will bleed through. >Airbrush thinned 1 shot into wet paint.
Since the fade is sprayed into the wet paint there is no need to clear coat. I have done it this way for many years with great result. The paint will never pull off with application tape and there are no harsh chemicals like when spraying urethanes.
You can also spray urethanes directly to colored vinyl and then clear coat the graphic. If you don't have the proper equipment and ventilation for this I would recommend another way or call Denis G. about a custom made casket.
Water base airbrush paints like Deka (I believe out of business) or Createx Auto Air works OK but need to be sprayed at a higher pressure to keep from spitting. They will also need to be clear coated. I've had mixed results with these especially orange sprayed on yellow vinyl. Very fast fading even with a U/V clear applied.
Another option is thinned down vinyl screen ink. I have never used this method but have heard it work pretty good. Hazardous chemicals and fumes apply here also.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Hi Alan..Sorry, I missed your question earlier.
I use R-M paints because that is what my local auto supply store carries. But all of the manufacturer's Base coat/ clearcoat systems are basically the same. A laquer based base colour and a catalyzed urethane clearcoat.
As I mentioned, I wait about one to two hours after clearing before I weed. At that point the vinyl is like a toasted marshmallow, very soft and pliable, so you have to be careful with the weeding. But it also indicates that the paint has very much bonded with the vinyl.
I always wait till the next day to mask. Longer if possible. Sometimes, after applying the vinyl and removing the premask there will be some mottling visible in the finish but after a couple of hours that flows out to a shiney finish. In fact I run into the same thing if I am applying lettering to a freshly painted AwlGrip hull on a boat. The premask mottling flows out of the paint in a short time. The first time I saw it I was scared sh**less and went for a smoke. Came back 15 minutes later and there was no evidence of marking or mottling!
To Reinforce what Mike Paul said..."Don't try this at home kids!!!!"
I have a shop that I originally built specifically for auto body and painting. I do all my spraying in an inspected and approved spray booth and use all the necessary breathing and body protection.
As long as you are wearing a good respirator and paint resistant coveralls, you can spray urethanes outdoors...As long as the local environmental people or neighbours don't mind!
Just an added bit of information...Catalysts contain isocyanates...Doesn't matter if they are from Dupont, CIL, R-M, One-Shot or whoever. Isocyanates are dangerous to your health.
The danger from isocyanates is not only restricted to breathing the catalyzed overpray when painting, the danger is also just as high when pouring and mixing the catalysts into the paint. A lot of folks don't know or don't believe that for some reason though. Wear a respirator and latex gloves when dealing with catalysts.
Enough of my preaching...I'm gonna go have a smoke! Posted by Alan Ackerson (Member # 3224) on :
Thanks Dave and Mike,
That's good stuff!
I did forget to mention that the HOK gets sprayed with a mask on and in a garage/shop with proper ventilation. It is nasty but still smells better than the inks.
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