The local PBS station ran an episode of Frontline last night titled "Is Wal Mart Good for America?"
Anyone else see it?
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
No! I've been wondering about anti-trust laws and why they haven't applied to Wal-Mart and other monopolies including Microsoft.
Wal-Marts are running out the competition in the small towns like the one we live in. They are going to tear down our Wal-Mart and build a Wal-Mart supercenter in its place. There is already speculation on which of the remaining grocery stores are going out of business because of this.
Posted by Amy Brown (Member # 1963) on :
I heard on the news Wal-Mart's sales were down because people wanted products they weren't offering to consumers such as household furntiture and such that is a little more upscale like Target offers. I'm sure they aren't choking though!!
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
I saw it Mike, Everyone else here should see it too. it's a real wake up call.
Like I said I do NOT shop there, I would drive to the next town if I had to.
I love when the TV Manufacturer went and filed against the Chinese for dumping underpriced TV"s in our country and broke trade laws, Walmart sided with the Chinese.
How can anyone compete against a country that pays it's workers 20, 30 the most 50 cents an hour to work?
[ June 15, 2005, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Personally I don't like "super" stores where they combine full fledged grocery/food shopping with department store stuff. That's just too much shopping for me to handle at once. I still like shopping for food at my favourite grocery stores and produce stands.
Walmart is upscaling to compete w/ Target. (I'm a Target shopper) The other day I had a dentist appt, and stopped into a nearby Walmart on the way home. The merchandise was definately up a notch, and I ended up getting some really neat stuff, and good buys.
I'm not keen on the SuperStores tho. Nettie
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
Wal-Mart is my last resort to buy anything. I don't like the idea of a company like Wally World putting mom and pop businesses out of business. The last time I was in there I noticed the checkout thingy was done in english and spanish. I asked the clerk, why don't you have chineese also, everything in here is made in china.
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
...How can Wall Mart really be any good (in the long run) when everything they sell is made in China? ...Their stuff may be cheaply priced, but it's the lowest quality crap ever.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
I have been in our walmart exactly twice this year. Both instances, they were my last option locally. I wasn't happy about being there either time.
Not only are they responsible for a lot of jobs being lost in this country, they have so many people snowed it's ridiculous.
If I want cheap junk, I'll shop at yard sales.
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Just curious ... is it just WalMart that's bad, or is it Target, K-mart, TJ Maxx, Ross, Kohls, Beall's, Costco, Sams ... etc too? If so, than I'm really going to h-e-l-l! Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
It is ourselves that have allowed the Chinese to control our economy. I imagine every one of us is guilty of this, to some degree.
I, for one, miss being able to buy hardware by the pound or by the piece. Mom & Pops stores are a part of the American way I hate to see go. Next, the Chinese will take away our homemade apple pie.
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
i think walmart owns sams club??? so yep you're going to h e l l...see ya there...we can eat melted godiva chocolate together. i'm a tremedous anthole cause i go there AND home depot. i haven't reviewed both sides of the debate yet and don't know if i care to...but i'm sure we'd all be embarassed to be americans if we knew 10000th of what REALLY goes on with our government and foreign trade. personally i try not to think about it too hard...i beat myself up about enuff shyt. but be damn sure that your american vehicle among other things....has many components made in ......shsssssssh.
just another thought....for example...we have hardware stores that are locally owned...guess what???? they carry the same shyt made in china and charge twice as much as wallyworld...pay their help crap and don't offer insurance.
gotta get back to work!
[ June 15, 2005, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: KARYN BUSH ]
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
Walmart is a nice lapdog for the blame,but Walmart(ya i think they suck too) doesnt put mom and pop businesses out nor do they ruin the towns,the towns and citizens in the community put themselves out by taking pride in being cheap and heading to Walmart to think theyre getting a deal. Noone is forced at gunpoint or by contract to shop at walmart,kmart,target,home depot,lowes or any of those crapholes yet let one open up anywhere close and the town talks outta both side of their face,complains joes hardware and grocery is closing yet they flock to walmart like whores to a navy ship on leave.Face facts.....you shop in one of those places you have no bitch and complain about how "they" ruined america or towns or anything else b/c you directly contributed to the problem,ya only to a small degree but it makes a difference. Everyone here is a local merchant and expects the community to support them,its a mutual thing.Not many of these chain giants were around 30-40yrs ago b/c we hadnt yet started cultivationg the feelingof entitlement that leads everyone to believe they're special,entitled to some special privilege and price without doing anything to earn it. You want local merchants to do well and stick around,patronize them,it's just that simple.....and its easy too.I've seen this topic come up here before and people have said "well they're open after 5,if the locals wanted my biz they would be too" well thats crap,spend 15minutes less here a day in letterville and take a ride to the local hardware if you need something,anything you want is worth sacrificing a little bit for and nowdays people do anything but that,they expect the world to completely cater to them....no customers=no business,Kmart learned that. Just $.07 from someone whose been in biz since 1963.
Posted by Doug Fielder (Member # 803) on :
Wal-Mart is only good for buying US made Ammunition.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
One of the interesting points of the show last night was one of WM's former managers giving a little insight to how they use psychology.
They'll have a sale on a product, one of those items out in the isle with a rock bottom opening price. That's the bait.
Then if they can get you to walk through the isle, you took the bait.
See, the item in the isle is so rediculously priced it's not even funny, and in the back of your head you know it's junk.
BUT, if you walk into the isle and you see a higher end version of the same thing there, they used a microwave as example, your head tells you that's the one you really want and because the price on the junk one is rock bottom you assume the price on the "good" one is too.. but that's not the case at all - plenty other stores could have the same thing cheaper than WM.
The public thinks Wal Mart is lookng out for them by controlling pricing, but the reality is, if a US company supplies WM with a product that brings a 15-30% profit margin, but a Chinese company can provide the "same" thing with a 30-60% margin and a slightly lower price to the consumer, that's TWICE the profits for WAL MART.
I guess if a vendor wants to do business with wal mart, they have to run a pretty tight ship. They showed how WM knows the costs, business practices, sources, etc. of all their vendors, which to me sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Mike, I wish I saw it but I didn't. It's very interesting to see how one huge business entity like WM can have an impact on many areas of our life in ever-widening ripples of cause & effect. The stuff I've heard about Wally world brings my limited understanding of the inter-relatedness of global economics & politics into a real-life situation that sheds light on some of that elusive realm of todays society.
quote:Originally posted by Bill Diaz: Wal-Marts are running out the competition in the small towns like the one we live in. They are going to tear down our Wal-Mart and build a Wal-Mart supercenter in its place. There is already speculation on which of the remaining grocery stores are going out of business because of this.
Bill, in a lesser-of-evils sort of way, I would be glad they are building another one in it's place. Thanks to a post a year ago (by Kimberly I think)I learned about how they have repeatedly run the competition out of town... had local city infrastructure modified to accomodate them (sometimes in exchange for future promised tax revenues) & then pulled outta town completely to take over another nearby town... leaving a huge un-rentable warehouse with perfect traffic infrastructure going to the biggest black hole in the remaining economy of a town no one shops in anymore.
Here was a very informative story that James Donahue's wife Stephanie posted last year:
as usual I think Gavin has hit the nail on the head quite well. For those that don't read the long story linked above... here is a somewhat enlightening quote I had previously pasted from it when I read it:
quote:Wal-Mart has also lulled shoppers into ignoring the difference between the price of something and the cost... Ever-cheaper prices have consequences...
"We want clean air, clear water, good living conditions, the best health care in the world--yet we aren't willing to pay for anything manufactured under those restrictions."
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
One more thing you might not know about Wal-Mart. Ever wonder where the Gov gets the index for the world currency? i.e. the U.S dollar vs. the yen, swiss franc, the euro, the looney, etc. Look no further than Wally World. Yep, that's where they get it; the price of certain products here, there and everywhere based on what it sells for at Wally World. I totally agree with our coonass friend, Gavin; if you shop there then don't gripe.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
I love Wal-Mart and buy all my sign supplies there
I love Wal-Mart and buy all my sign supllies there
I love Wal-Mart and buy all my sign supplies there
I love Wal-Mart and buy all my sign supllies there
I love Wal-Mart and buy all my sign supllies there
I love Wal-Mart and buy all my sign supplies there
I love Wal-Mart and buy all my sign supllies there Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
quote:Originally posted by Joey Madden: I love Wal-Mart and buy all my sign supplies there
I love Wal-Mart and buy all my sign supllies there
I love Wal-Mart and buy all my sign supplies there
I love Wal-Mart and buy all my sign supllies there
I love Wal-Mart and buy all my sign supllies there
I love Wal-Mart and buy all my sign supplies there
I love Wal-Mart and buy all my sign supllies there
You only like it because they have killerkart copies there and plenty of solvent to cut paints with Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
We have 2 (yep TWO) Supercenters in our town of 50,000- IF (and that's a big IF) they have run out all the other competition, why have Lowe's, Home Depot, Target, Belk's, Kohl's, PetSmart, 2 Krogers, 2 Dollar Generals, 2 Fred's, ... as well as countless Mom & Pop stores of all kinds, chosen to come into our town and build and run succesfull businesses?
One of my coaching staff used to be a store manager at several Wal-Marts- then later at a Lowe's. He said that Wal-Mart knows how much items cost to produce, how much profit is being made, How to buy in bulk, what sells and what doesn't- everything down to the penny! They may choose to produce their own products- sometimes overseas, sometimes right in our back yard- but they know what the bottom line is. He said Lowe's was clueless about how to buy or how much items cost to produce- which is why they tended to have higher prices on some things.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
iam old, 1st off. i come from pennsylvaina people who came from russian/italian imigrants in the early 1900's who came to pa to find their dream of freedom and prosparity! yea right....a few did and a lot more surcummed to being no more then white slaves to a money oriented society. as far back as you want to look, there has always been a "ruling class"(those with money)and a working class(those who want money). there in is where it gets bad. the rich, who can afford an "industry" to make them richer...find people who will work for little money so they can hope to become the ruling class. now granted most of the jobs the ruling class have for the working class are back breaking, lung destroying, life taking jobs...that most people wouldnt do. as long as they ruling class can hold on to "cheap labor" then they make more money...hence the rise of the COMPANY STORE. where all the things that the labors needed was provided by the ruling class to keep the cheap labor in a state of "indebtedness." meaning anything the labore needed from the company store it would be deducted from their already small paycheck. and this way the rulling class has a captive work force so the dont have to raise wages. now add cheap housing to this fomula for the workers...and the rent would also be deducted from the paycheck....now you got slaves livin on your plantation for $1 a week in real money!!! now move this to 2005 since the INDUSTIAL DECLINE has moved the work force from manual labor jobs like steel mills, coal mines, ship building, etc. most of the people need a job....so along come walmart who is gona do the same thing the COMPANY STORE did...with their employees....low wages, fair benifits, long hours, and A SENCE OF JOB SECURITY.....all the while they offer a small discount to all employees when they buy from the COMPANY STORE....and its been almost 80 years sice this was done and most today know nothing of how the COMPANY store run the world back then. so the old addage what old is new again is in play here. if WALMART keeps growing ...i see the chance of them building aptment complexs....and low rent for their employees....
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
[ June 15, 2005, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Kimberly Zanetti ]
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
quote:Originally posted by old paint: iam old, 1st off. i come from pennsylvaina people who came from russian/italian imigrants in the early 1900's who came to pa to find their dream of freedom and prosparity! yea right....a few did and a lot more surcummed to being no more then white slaves to a money oriented society. as far back as you want to look, there has always been a "ruling class"(those with money)and a working class(those who want money). there in is where it gets bad. the rich, who can afford an "industry" to make them richer...find people who will work for little money so they can hope to become the ruling class. now granted most of the jobs the ruling class have for the working class are back breaking, lung destroying, life taking jobs...that most people wouldnt do. as long as they ruling class can hold on to "cheap labor" then they make more money...hence the rise of the COMPANY STORE. where all the things that the labors needed was provided by the ruling class to keep the cheap labor in a state of "indebtedness." meaning anything the labore needed from the company store it would be deducted from their already small paycheck. and this way the rulling class has a captive work force so the dont have to raise wages. now add cheap housing to this fomula for the workers...and the rent would also be deducted from the paycheck....now you got slaves livin on your plantation for $1 a week in real money!!! now move this to 2005 since the INDUSTIAL DECLINE has moved the work force from manual labor jobs like steel mills, coal mines, ship building, etc. most of the people need a job....so along come walmart who is gona do the same thing the COMPANY STORE did...with their employees....low wages, fair benifits, long hours, and A SENCE OF JOB SECURITY.....all the while they offer a small discount to all employees when they buy from the COMPANY STORE....and its been almost 80 years sice this was done and most today know nothing of how the COMPANY store run the world back then. so the old addage what old is new again is in play here. if WALMART keeps growing ...i see the chance of them building aptment complexs....and low rent for their employees....
You go to walmart all the time be quiet
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
for those interested and have high speed internet you can view the show anytime here. Walmart is Bad for America
[ June 15, 2005, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Interesting question but how come this topic comes up all the time and no one asks if the government is good for America. They impact us negatively a thousand times more than any corporation with whom I may or may not deal with.
Joe Sobran wrote similarly about Bill Gates and the charges of anti trust against him, but it applies as well to Walmart.
Quote:"Personally, I don’t feel threatened by Bill Gates. Bill Gates can’t take a penny of my earnings if I don’t want him to have it. I don’t have to work for him for the first four months of the year. He can’t put me in prison for refusing to pay him or for disobeying his orders. He can’t break into my house and search for drugs. He can’t send my sons to war. He hasn’t incinerated any religious sects, and none of his agents has shot a mother in the head while she was holding her baby. He doesn’t even seem interested in doing any of these things."
Sorry if that's takes the topic off on a tangent, but I can't understand outrages over ATM fees, increases in gas prices, and whether Walmart is gaining too much power, in light of the far more pervasive incursions into our lives.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
I hate Wal-mart in general . . .BUT . . .
I buy Krylon spray paint, masking tape, 3-m tape, mineral spirits and laquer thinner there.
I buy Emilys school uniforms there ONLY IF they have any cute kahki skorts or cute red tops, which they actually had this year.
I stopped at a few super Wal-Marts from here to Dallas Texas and was pretty stunned how much bigger and how much of the same, but also more different stuff they had than other 'super' Wal-Marts. She's set for school in September.
They are the only place in town that carries John Freida hair stuff.
It's the only place in our town that carries ANY sewing materials.
That's about it.
I virtually never buy groceries there and I hate walking across a football feild to get two items located in opposite and unlikely places. Like Nettie I prefer my regular grocery store, or produce stands.
Our SuperWal-Mart did put one of our many grocery stores, Food World out of business, but it took several years.
The nearest target is 105 miles away, and the nearest Whole Foods is over 90 miles away, so I can only go there a few times a year.
My BIGGEST gripe with Wal-Mart? Depending on the time of day I try to sneak in there, I wind up seein' too many people I know who wanna stop & chat or talk to me about signs...
The best time to do Wally world?
Between 1am & 5am. If you see someone you know then, you can just nod, smile and move on. We know we're there at that unlikely time for the same reason.
I almost never, ever do malls and I hate Freds, Dollar General, Family Dollar, the Dollar Tree etc, etc, even worse than Wal-Mart.
Gimmee'a good thrift store or flea market and I'm good to go.
I order in sign supplies from various places and use local lumber yards for other materials, paints and hardware.
PS . . . .I dunno the answer to the question.
[ June 15, 2005, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: Sheila Ferrell ]
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Wright: Interesting question but how come this topic comes up all the time and no one asks if the government is good for America. They impact us negatively a thousand times more than any corporation with whom I may or may not deal with.
Joe Sobran wrote similarly about Bill Gates and the charges of anti trust against him, but it applies as well to Walmart.
Quote:"Personally, I don’t feel threatened by Bill Gates. Bill Gates can’t take a penny of my earnings if I don’t want him to have it. I don’t have to work for him for the first four months of the year. He can’t put me in prison for refusing to pay him or for disobeying his orders. He can’t break into my house and search for drugs. He can’t send my sons to war. He hasn’t incinerated any religious sects, and none of his agents has shot a mother in the head while she was holding her baby. He doesn’t even seem interested in doing any of these things."
Sorry if that's takes the topic off on a tangent, but I can't understand outrages over ATM fees, increases in gas prices, and whether Walmart is gaining too much power, in light of the far more pervasive incursions into our lives.
when they force you to move into the company apts youre gonna change this tune in a hurry mister
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
Sheila, www.drugstore.com carries a full line of John Freida (just checked) and they often have free shipping specials. Even if they didn't, the $4.95 you'd pay for shipping (on average) is worth the money not to have to go to Wal-Mart, put up with the crowds and have the UPS guy show up and hand it to you.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Micheal, you wrote... "One of my coaching staff used to be a store manager at several Wal-Marts- then later at a Lowe's. He said that Wal-Mart knows how much items cost to produce, how much profit is being made, How to buy in bulk, what sells and what doesn't- everything down to the penny! They may choose to produce their own products- sometimes overseas, sometimes right in our back yard- but they know what the bottom line is."
no offense, but your views seem to reley too heavily on what your friend says & not enough on gathering some deeper understanding of the discussion topic you want to contribute to. If you take the time to look further into this question, you will see a lot more going on then the business savvy of knowing what production costs are... loss leaders in a given aisle to get you in that aisle are not a new thing... but Walmart has learned to force companies who have over-extended themselves in order to become WM vendors.. to suddenly be the fall guy for the "loss leader"
...and to David... "how come this topic comes up all the time and no one asks if the government is good for America." ...simply because, at least around here, we are not allowed to talk about that Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Kimberly, I thought it was another thread. I don't feel like re-reading it, but wasn't it in a town near you that the city was counting on future years of their share of tax revenues when they agreed to build new roads etc. to help traffic into Walmart... then Wally only stayed put for a year or two... took the money, & ran to the next town? Maybe it's in that thread?
Also Jon had posted this LINK to transcripts of a PBS discussion on some other interesting related facts.
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
Yes, Doug, you're right...that happend here in Cathedral City. They're closing the Sam's Club & Walmart here and have built a bunch of them in neighboring towns.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Gavin, they are building apts down the street and I don't see any name on them. You don't suppose? I take it all back, really.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
One part of the program showed chinese companies who refuse to be bulied by Walmart even. Op's not too far off with his analogy about the appartments. In Ohio Walmart was responsible for shutting down a TV manufacturing plant, putting 30 year workers out of a job, then after all the jobs moved to china and the town was destitute, Walmart moves in with a supercenter, right NEXT to the empty TV factory and offering jobs to the town for 1/2 the pay they once had. How nice of them.
[ June 15, 2005, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
But where else are ya gonna get to buy a case of beer, 14 gallons of butter flavored Crisco, 50' of rope and 7 pulleys at 3:00 in the morning? Wal-Mart serves a purpose, people!
In our quaint little town here Wal-Mart just bought an entire friggin' neighborhood that they have now bulldozed to build a new store. How many other companies can buy out 30 families and send them packing cause they want their land?
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Yes, and WalMart owns its own refinery and sells its own gasoline. Yes, Murphy oil right here in New Orleans.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
OK, I found what Kimberly had posted:
quote:Originally posted by Kimberly Zanetti: Here's the portion of the transcript that indicates what happened in our small town...
SYLVIA CHASE: Yet, communities still receive Wal-Mart with open arms. In the Southern California desert, Cathedral City welcomed Wal-Mart a decade ago, with visions of sales tax revenues dancing in their heads.
SYLVIA CHASE: How much did the city of Cathedral City invest to get Wal-Mart?
GREG PETTIS, MAYOR, PRO TEM, CATHEDRAL CITY: The initial investment was $1.8 million.
SYLVIA CHASE: How much did you get back?
GREG PETTIS: To date, nothing.
SYLVIA CHASE: A payday was expected, once Cathedral City had reimbursed Wal-Mart's building and other expenses at the new mall. Here's how the deal works.
GREG PETTIS: Every quarter when the sales tax checks come in to us from the state from Wal-Mart, we turn around, and write that check right back to Wal-Mart, anticipating that at the end of this time, we're gonna see all of that money coming back into our coffers.
SYLVIA CHASE: But just as Cathedral City made good on its end of the $1.8-million deal with Wal-Mart came a rude surprise: Wal-Mart is closing in Cathedral City and opening three new stores down the road.
GREG PETTIS: Our first notification was when we saw it in the newspaper that the neighboring City Council was gonna be having a discussion about it.
SYLVIA CHASE: You're kidding? You read about this in the newspaper?
GREG PETTIS: Right. And we were the ones who made the first phone call to Wal-Mart, saying, "What's going on? Can we do something--
SYLVIA CHASE: And what did they say?
GREG PETTIS: Oh, there's nothing that can be done. We'll sit and talk with you. But there's nothing to-- nothing to discuss.
SYLVIA CHASE: And nothing to fill up the million dollar annual contribution Cathedral City had expected from sales taxes at the Wal-Mart.
GREG PETTIS: Right. A million dollars every year. And this is money, general fund money, which is exactly what we pay for the police, the fire, paramedics-- parks, street maintenance. I mean, that's the real bread and butter for a city's economy is what they get in their sales tax. And that's going to go away.
SYLVIA CHASE: Pettis says they will be lucky if they get $500-hundred thousand in sales tax out of the deal. When Wal-Mart abandons this store, the other tenants in the mall are expected to suffer.
The Wal-Mart owned Sam's Club is also going, so this smaller mall has turned over new leases at reduced rates and the lube and oil shop folded up all together. For Cathedral City, it's a symbol of what's wrong about Wal-Mart and that is one reason why Contra Costa County wants nothing to do with the company consumers can't seem to do without.
BTW Mike, thanks for the link, I am going to check that out. (I also thought OP's reply was right on scary )
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
This town is might be the prime example of how bad it can get....
A few years ago, the struggling Ames department stores went chapter 11 and, along with a local chain of grocery stores in this area named "Butson's". their builings were being put on the auction block. Couple that with several factory and mill closings and this towns been going dead for a decade.
Ocean State Job Lots bought the old Ames location last year and before they could hang the banners up announcing they were opening, rumours began to fly that Wal-Mart Supercenter was coming into town.
All of a sudden a sleepy little town became the hot ticket for property sales. Anyone with money started buying up property adjacent to where Wally World was going, not to start a business, but to sell it to Wal-Mart at a substential profit. Dunkin Donuts blew into town, breaking ground on a new building this spring on their coat tails.
Sounds like a boom to the town at a quick glance, huh? Nope.
All the speculation, property values rising and such are based on traffic. They've been bean counting the cars with those road strips for a year. With a population of less than 5000 in a 50+ square mile area and one of the lowest average household incomes in the state, we're certainly not gonna carry the place with retail business. Taxes maybe.
What these corporate hedgehogs should have done was stick their heads out of their accounting cubicles long enought to figure out...
1: Almost all the traffic through here are heading through town to go shopping at the Wal-Mart 20 miles away....DUHHHHH!!!!!! You had no competition here and Ocean State wasn't gonna hurt you. They're stuff is somewhere between yours and the Dollar Store...just another "mouthbreathing mecca". 2: Out of the almost 30,000 cars/day that hit those counters, it's a pretty good bet that it's not an accurate count. Hell, almost everyone commutes out of town to work somewhere else and with all the retired folks here bopping around visiting each other, it might be 10,000 at best. 3: This town's lost over 400 manufacturing jobs that had benefits in the last 10 years. Any chance you wanna replace those jobs, or can we expect a building full of incompetent part-time "associates", who aren't working enough hours to qualify for benefits, selling stuff made overseas? We have 3 empty factory buildings already here in town. I double-dare you! 4: Word is that the water and light company can't provide enough water pressure to accomodate the Wal-Mart AND Job Lots at the same time. Probably gonna be a year until that work is completed. I've seen the place...
Bottom line is, all your gonna do is snarl traffic in another small town, pushing out cheap crap. The bottom feeders will continue to swarm toward your smiley-faced price tags, bumping each other with shopping carts stuffed with "low quality...ALWAYS!", with their cow-eyed expressions.
A long time ago, it was honorable to work hard, earn money, and support your community and do good things. We're still waiting, Wal-Mart... Rapid
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
You sure a got a bunch of incompetents in Cathedral City to be taken like that. City governments shouldn't even be considering such deals anyways.
And as far as company owned houses and apts, that sounds like a good perk. If you don't like it, get your own, if you don't like the job get another. We're agreed that they are crap jobs anyways, what's to lose?
My recent ancestors lived in company coal mining towns in Pennsylvania. Came a time it wasn't to their liking so off to the auto plants in Michigan.
Choices, enjoy the ones you are still allowed to make.
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Wal-Mart did put our Winn-Dixie out of business but the sleazy outfit deserved it. My dad worked for WD for about 30 years as a market manager but when he got old they started giving him a hard time, working him odd and irregular hours etc. After he got cancer and passed away, they tried to cheat my mom out of a huge chunk of his retirement. She sued and won. Not long after that, China-Mart moved in across the street and WD had to close. That was 6 years ago and they are still having to pay the lease on the empty building They have also had to close a bunch more stores in their chain since.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Here's the transcript of the PBS show...
Frontline Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
I wasn't trying to ruffle feathers- only pointing out a different take on the theory that Wal-mart RUNS every other competitor out of business- IT AIN'T happening here! If anything it has helped contribute to MORE businesses and competitors in our town.
My coach that I refered to no longer works for Wal-Mart OR Lowe's- but he does talk about how different they were to work for. That was my only point with his reference. They have lots of business knowledge and are ruthless and unrelenting when it comes to using it. They are in business to make money...gobs and gobs of money.
I recall several years ago, Wal-Mart tried to get into the sign and banner business by offering those services in the stores, but I guess it fizzled. Ironically, they were more expensive than some of the sign shops around.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I love Wal-Mart. I bet I'm in there twice a week....
I go out of my way to NOT buy anything Chinese as I believe that revenue goes directly towards building the Chinese military - -
(which I believe we will have a major conflict with in the next 30 years over Taiwan. (We're ally's of Taiwan, and Taiwan asserts it's freedom from mainland China who believes Taiwan should be theirs. China has made several threats of war against America if we side with Taiwan, should China invade to take the island over.....China has added multiple Soviet subs and dozens of beach landing vehicles in the last year. The subs are theorized to elimate and discourage any US navy vessels should we enter the area to protect our ally. They have plenty of missles for air defense. Anyone thinks China isn't a superpower potential foe is just crazy.)
However, you're likely buying just as much Chinese crap from Target, Kmart, and even your locally owned hardware store as you are from Walmart.
Chinese crap is pervasive.....I'll pay twice as much to buy American, or other friendly country products.
But Walmart has many products including groceries made in the US at very good prices...and that's what I'm after.
You cannot just blame Walmart....a huge share of American companies are moving to or outsourcing products overseas. Levi Strauss pulled a big factory out of Missouri, Automakers have plants in Mexico....and on and on.
Malls got the same flack from some people years ago...."the malls are taking customers away from the independent small town store owner" they cried.
Well, hellllloooo! Then move your business into the mall. That's why they call it competition. If you can't sell a product or service at a competitive price, then you deserve to be out of business.
Walmart has a huge advantage because they are a big company and can negotiate low pricing. Guess what? They weren't always big....they got that way by being competitive in the first place, gave people what they wanted and could afford and grew like any good business would.
They have good service, good return policies, and I can go there day or night and get a frozen pizza.
Target, on the other hand, wouldn't take back a can opener I bought there with cash because I didn't have the receipt. They wouldn't even exchange it for something else even though they carried the can opener.
Walmart would not have treated me this way....Target will never see another dime from me...they don't understand what customer satisfaction is all about.
I don't care where you shop....you're going to find products made from exploited Chinese kids.....I simply read labels and as much as possible buy US.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Walmart low prices are subsidized by the victimizing companies. Its not cutthroat good bizz practices. ITs extorion. Walmar used to insist on buying American. But since Sam passed .. walmart has ****ed off so many American Co's they must buy Chinese.
Vlassic pickles is an example. Walmart got a contract with vlassic. Vlassic geared up and invested millions in added production. WAlmart came by and said,, Oh, now we want your pickles in gallon jars. for the same price as your quart jars. Vlassic had millions tied up and HAD to comply. Walmart later came by and said we want them cheaper. Vlassic said no and walmart quit buying altogether. Left the pickle maker in a pickle. Vlassic was considered a premium product but not now because of the low price image., It will be years before vlassic recovers.
Now, winn dixie is looking in the face of closing. Whe it does in our area we expect Wallies prices to skyrocket just like they do in other towns when the competition is wiped out. All of it driven by a false economy driven by local authorites to increase sales tax revenue.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Vlassic should have fired their customer!!!
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Horse malarky!
I just bought Vlassic pickles in a small jar the other day....and price doesn't ruin a good pickle's reputation......taste does.
I still like the taste of Vlassic pickle's best and will continue buying them whether they cost a penny a pickle or a buck a pickle.
I find it hard to believe that major companies don't have purchase agreements or some form of contractual agreement.....if Vlassic spent millions in ramping up for Walmart's business without one, then they deserve the green weenie....er pickle that is.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
That's what I am saying Todd. It was their choice to sell at that price. You can't blame Wal*Mart any more than you can blame our customer if they beat us down on price.....We made the choice to sell, period!
[ June 16, 2005, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Pickle's of America?! Arise.... Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote: You cannot just blame Walmart....a huge share of American companies are moving to or outsourcing products overseas. Levi Strauss pulled a big factory out of Missouri
if you look a little harder into that Levis comment, you just might find Walmart behind that too.. & there is plenty to read about the Vlassic pickles story that might get you understanding the "extortion" comment a little more. That story can be found in the links posted on this thread.
Posted by Erik Gastelum (Member # 5341) on :
I shop at walmart all the time to get the little things that are to expensive to pay for at grocery stores i.e. toothpaste, shampoo, razors, e.t.c.
Walmart is a shinning example of capitalism. It's composed of low wage ENTRY level employees to help keep the cost down. Mom and Pop shops like all else in our economy must make an ADJUSTMENT to survise in the market place. It's not the governments job to regulate or make the playing field even, that's not a free and open market place, that's a socialist market and you can get that in Europe.
The "Buggy" companies that made the adjustments for the new "Automobiles" survived and the ones that didn't didn't. Same with Airline Companyies today. There is one airline (will not name) that keeps its airfares low because they use the same type model so they don't have to wory about training (Mechanics & Pilots) & mainly parts. Others use varies airliners and that spreads cost and causes them to raise airfares.
Adjustment
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
go out of my way to NOT buy anything Chinese as I believe that revenue goes directly towards building the Chinese military - -
(which I believe we will have a major conflict with in the next 30 years over Taiwan. (We're ally's of Taiwan, and Taiwan asserts it's freedom from mainland China who believes Taiwan should be theirs. China has made several threats of war against America if we side with Taiwan, should China invade to take the island over.....China has added multiple Soviet subs and dozens of beach landing vehicles in the last year. The subs are theorized to elimate and discourage any US navy vessels should we enter the area to protect our ally. They have plenty of missles for air defense. Anyone thinks China isn't a superpower potential foe is just crazy.) " toddy you finally confirmed my belive that you are on the edge(and thats not the edge of reason) a right winged conservative who is a conspiracy beliver? thats rich. i only buy HIENZ PICKLES...except when i got fresh "ice box pickles" heeni makes from our fresh garden grown cukes! i was at wally world last nite at 1:30am!!! only time i go there. i bought staple items o.j., milk, half & half. total bill was $20...as for prices...EDDEY'S slow churned ice cream at wall mart is $3.18.....ok....ALBERTSONS which is a mile a way from wallyworld there same product is $5.38. this is why i buy at wally world. COMMUNITY COFFEE new orleans blend at WALLY WORLD is $3.78 ALBERTSONS same product is $4.85!!!! the reason WINN DIXIE's are closing they are higher priced then anywhere....winn dixie is the last store i go to...i know their prices for everything is higher.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Hehehehehe....OP? You're a treat!
Read the news....these are all facts reported by the *liberal* press....not by us right wing conservatives.
Glad to see we're on the same page in regards to Wally World.... Posted by Erik Gastelum (Member # 5341) on :
I'd like to add to my post and give a perfect example of some people that I know through a friend and how it realates walmart to us...sort of.
There is these two brothers who started a business of exercise equipment. Well after a few years with Sports Authority & Sportmart along with other big exercise equipment companies came to town it hit them pretty hard. Not putting them out of business but hurt them. So they did a slow transition into jetski rentals after seeing a lack of that around town. So in their shop they had both exercise equipment and jetski's till they phased out exercise equipment and continued in rentals. Once again years later more and more business's starting getting into the rental business. So once again they took another transition by going into the sign business. Now they are a successful company with contracts with the city putting up the banners on light poles for seasonal, sporting & special events.
So simply they surfed the market for what was a need and on demand and made an "Adjustment" in business
That's the end my story telling for one day, I'm not "Teddy Ruxpen"
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
well todd my whole point to wally world ..this is what the people get when they think that UNIONS have no VALUE in their world. what big business did before UNIONS is now happing again because people think that "big business" is gona be good to them....and WALLY WORLD IS THEIR FUTURE.
Posted by Sharon O'Brien-Lykins (Member # 5723) on :
I'm not on the hate-Walmart bandwagon. We have one about 40 miles from here and I'll go if I need or want to... with no shame. I take many of PBS's controversial type shows with a grain of salt, too. I've seen too much clever bias on their programs. Sure there's going to be some fire where there's smoke... but PBS and other media outlets are giving COSTCO a free ride because COSTCO pays more into their politics and WalMart had done a lot to support our troops and some conservative causes... and as such they have become a Target (accidental but appropriate pun). Our local stores have shelves stocked with China-made goods, too. I don't even have time to talk about unions.... ugh. But having worked in just about every major convention center in this country, I do have an opinion or two about them!
Now, if there's a company I'll happily boycott, it's Star Bucks.
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
quote: but PBS and other media outlets are giving COSTCO a free ride because COSTCO pays more into their politics and WalMart had done a lot to support our troops and some conservative causes...
I'm NOT posting on this thread to be argumentative but just to clarify that Costco pays it's workers a GOOD honest wage and has EXCELLENT benefits. It's been criticized in some business circles for paying their workers so much but they refuse to fall into the trap of paying them less than they can survive on and thus end up being a drain on social services.
Posted by Sharon O'Brien-Lykins (Member # 5723) on :
Okay, I won't take you as argumentative... wasn't going to...until you said "NOT" LOL... just kidding. Comes from that old warning of never believe someone who says they're not doing what you didn't accuse them of doing...
Besides, how do we argue without arguing?
Okay, okay...I submit that I understand what you meant.
I just think that a lot of what people are upset about is what we are fed to be upset about.... and much truth is often left out of the story. Anytime I wanted to learn something new, I begged to be started at the bottom to get in the door... because I hate school and love learning my work from the bottom up... never had benefits... never took public aid, always found a creative way to get by and loved ambition and making pennies count... when I had to. Maybe sounds too "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" or isolationist or whatever other jargon is out there. But even when I had my first job and people around me were complaining about the wage, I always thought... why not quit then? I never complained... not once... only bettered myself and moved on. But I was surrounded by those who considered themselves and others to be victims. Maybe I just don't get it. If so, I'm lucky. Sounds depressing to be stuck and have the rest of the world to blame.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!
...I'll put in the requisite to communicate civilty... but although it was once a humerous cliche... I actually think it applies here. Posted by Roy Frisby (Member # 736) on :
I beg to differ with Curtis. "Yes, and WalMart owns its own refinery and sells its own gasoline. Yes, Murphy oil right here in New Orleans."
Walmart, does not own Murphy Oil USA. Murphy Oil USA,headquartered here in El Dorado, Arkansas is a publicly owned company with the majority stockholders being the Murphy family themselves. The selling of Murphy gasoline by Walmart is a partnership agreement between Walmart and Murphy Oil USA.
I don't shop at Wally world either.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
well. it may just be semantics my friend. Partnership as in part owner..But, the entire output of that refinery is all walmart bound.
IT is well known here as we (local residents) all know at lest one or two ppl who work there. The employees all talk as though walmart owns them. Walmart consistantly sells gas at 5 cents less than the lowest. That is their stated goal.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
With regards to those who made comments about 'boycotting' anything 'made in China' . . .
I'm just wondering, ok?
This is an open-discussion question.
It is not a judgement or accusation of any belief.
I'm telling you I am not trying to 'pick a fight, start a political debate, or be argumentative.
I have no cut-&-dried notions about this.
I'm just putting this out there because I honestly want to understand your ideas, Because I'd like to hear other ideas to base a possible final opinion on . . .
I think the facts are: You have a communist-controlled country , that employs low-wage factory-laborers, who live packed like sardines in less-than-substantial housing, who are working mabey the only jobs they can hope to get . . .
So, my question is: Who are you trying to hurt, teach, or what is your goal or point, or, what is your reason/statement with your disdain for, and refusal to buy, stuff made in China??
Again, I'm just askin' objectively is all.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
My goal is to do my part in not supporting the war machine that will be waged against us in the future.
I feel sorry for the "poor" Chinese that work for almost nothing and are repressed by the commies...but buying cheap Chinese products only encourages the cheap labor....hopefully, but doubtfully....boycotts could initiate change.
That's my feeling.... Posted by Erik Gastelum (Member # 5341) on :
Todd couldn't be more right.
The other day a new vinyl maunfact called me up about their new company telling me there product is made in Europe. I asked what country, she said "France", I said sorry that's one of the countries I'm boycotting
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Thanx for the replies guys. I understand the point perfectly, just ain't entirely knowledgable about it....
Don't you think there's going to be a war/stuff for war regardless??
It makes me wonder if I'd rather be on the side of a stronger nation of free people?
Or be on the side of a nation who's abused people buck in revolt to help the other side, or cower in useless fear of their own side?
Or become like a junk-yard-dog. An extremist unable to recognize good & bad and trusting no one, hates & kills everyone??
My general idea is, THAT particular war (communism) IS going to be fought.
No sense in abusing the innocent weak 'prisoners' of it prior . . .
(way too) many of them will understandabley, regretabley die during.
But it's what's after who wins that's important.
Mabey the question should really be, if we were those factory workers what would we like the economics to do?
Again...I'm totally just thinkin' iz'all . . .
No doubt I will be asked...er' commanded... to take it to a more apt forum since it has zilch to do with signs . . . or will it? . . . someday? . . .Like if we ever lose the freedom ask such questions . . .
If it makes ANYONE feel better, yes, I DO realize this entire board is not a political science class. . . .just this one little handful of deviated replies, like a thousand other OT's on here. No biggie.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
"My goal is to do my part in not supporting the war machine that will be waged against us in the future." THEN DONT PAY ANYMORE FEDERAL TAXES!!!!! like the old 60's songs says.....WAR..WHATS IT GOOD FOR ...AB-SOL-LUT-LY NOTHIN!!!!!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
...an abundance of nifty CHEAP electronics gadgets are like: an addictive drug
...an abundance of blind sheeple lining up at wally world are like: impressionable youth lined up in the schoolyard down the street
...when almost everyones keeping up with the jones' & collecting mega quantities of various media required to run their vast array of gizmo's, it's like: the body's chemical dependancy on the drug has almost reached the point of no return
...when the vast majority of all the computers & other componants of assorted high-tech industries that our hospitals, schools, civil infrastructures & government agencies depend on suddenly become innaccessible, or triple in price it's like: the clean scrubbed innocent looking "candyman" up the street, whips off his price-slashing smiley face & the true pusher-man drug lord persona sets the hook & controls the supply & demand of your livelyhood while setting his price for your happiness
btw I respectfully disagree that I always quote people... but just this once...
quote:Mabey the question should really be, if we were those factory workers what would we like the economics to do?
maybe the answer should really be: "just say NO"
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
I find that for me it is hard to boycott Chinese goods as I love Chinese women as well as Chinese foods.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
LOL Joey . . . .
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
it seems to me that when Wal-Mart enters a small town, like the one we have here, they gradually try and offer everything that local stores have, but at a cheaper price. Thus gradually putting the smaller merchants out of business. I just remarked to a friend yesterday that our local walmart was now going to offer grocery items along with their other stuff. Since most people are lazy , and not very loyal, they will be glad to get everything in one store. In my eyes, they are small town killers. They build a store, make it a super walmart, take all the business and then at one point, leave. Since they buy in huge quantities, the smallers stores cant keep up with their pricing, and they have to rely on people buying from them out of loyalty to a local merchant. I wont tell you that I too occasionally buy things from them, but not things I can get from a local merchant. Nope.
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Amen JD3
Does Wal*Mart buy signs from any of you? Will they ever? Support your local merchants whenever possible. It's in your own best interest. Worth alot more than the money you think you're saving.
[ June 17, 2005, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Jon Aston ]
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Not to change the subject but, it ain't only Wal-mart, US companies have been buying junk from China for many years now. Ever been to one of those travelling tool sales? What about Harbor Freight Tools? Flea markets, K-Mart, Target, seems everybody is selling junk made in China. It's everywhere. Go to a furniture store like Rhodes or Home Place.
Remember when everything was "made in Japan", then it was "made in Hong Kong", then "made in Taiwan" and finally you started seeing more junk appearing from China. Only now, it's not all junk anymore. In addition to the junk, they're making more and more sophisticated stuff...ever more decent quality stuff, at prices cheaper than we can. How can they do it other than paying their workers 25 cents an hour?
This is an excerpt from the US Emabassy in Japan webpage:
China Exchange Rate Policies
Based on our examination of this issue, it appears clear that China continues to follow a policy of one-way market interventions by the government to maintain its currency at a level that economists estimate is between 15-40 percent undervalued. In this regard, China is purchasing U.S. dollars at an estimated rate of $120 billion per year to prevent appreciation of its currency against the dollar. In assessing causes of the worsening U.S. trade deficit and loss of U.S. manufacturing jobs, a broad range of factors are clearly at work; the lack of net new savings in the U.S. economy, the global mobility of factors of production and low labor costs in China are among the principal factors. However, we believe that the artificially undervalued Chinese yuan is negatively impacting the competitiveness of U.S. manufactured goods and is contributing to a migration of world manufacturing capacity to China and to an erosion of the U.S. manufacturing base.
Section 3004 of the Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act of 1988 (22 U.S.C. Sec. 5304) requires annual reports from the Department of Treasury on foreign countries' exchange rate policies and requires the Secretary to enter into negotiations on an expedited basis with countries found to be manipulating their currencies to gain an unfair competitive trade advantage. Past reports from the Treasury on China have sidestepped this conclusion, which appears now to be inescapable. The Commission believes it is clear that China, in violation of both its IMF and WTO obligations, is in fact manipulating its currency for trade advantage and therefore finds it imperative that the Treasury immediately and forcefully enter into negotiations with the Chinese Government to resolve this matter. China's continued maintenance of an undervalued exchange rate with the U.S. dollar will continue to promote major distortions in the flow of trade and investment, to the detriment of American companies and workers, and therefore requires decisive action by Washington. http://japan.usembassy.gov/e/p/tp-20031031a4.html Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
[ June 17, 2005, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Wayne that was very interesting and very informative . . . yet not surprising.
What else would you expect from a communist governemnt but dishonest business practices?
Posted by John Largent (Member # 4606) on :
I don't wanna get off onna rant here . . BUT . . . . Lessee . .
"Cheap Chinese junk sold at Wal Mart" . . try buying a Makita Drill at Home depot or Lowes . . that isn't made in China! Fact is, try buying damned near anything in the tool department of any of the hardware store/lumber yards in the Country . . Almost all Chinese made!
"Chinese Slave Labor wages" C'mon now, hell yes, those Chinese, for the most part are paid a whole lot less than their American counterparts, why the hell would we be buying that stuff so cheap if they didn't? On the other hand, the Chinaman who's working for a buck an hour wasn't working for even a nickle an hour until he started making the widget or whatever that you're gonna buy somewhere in this country!
"We're paying for the Chinese Military" . . So? They have the biggest Army in the world, but are they gonna march it across the Pacific? Probably not . . they have several ICBMs, so are they gonna shoot them at us? Probably not . . First, we still have four Boomers lurking around out in the Pacific someplace, and we have four more just parked and idling . . Hmmm, lessee, 24 missiles per boat, 3 weapons per missle . . that's enough to turn the entire Eastern part of China into Glass that you can't use for 75,000 years . . plus, currently the good ol US of A represents 40% of China's Exports, and over 50% of it's raw materials . . . and wait'll they start exporting Automobiles to the US in another year or so . . . Hyundai's and KIA's won't seem so cheap!
And if Wal Mart's trade practices P*** you off, then don't look too hard at the Four Oil companies that rule the world, you'll have a coronary!
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
What else would you expect from a communist governemnt but dishonest business practices? and what do you call payin $200 a peice for toilet seat?
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Pretty good points John . . . .
it would almost . . . .
um, gee it DOES make one a complete hippocrite, or at least, kind'a ethically challenged, to 'say' they boycott certain goods, if they still purchase some of them . . . . . . .
I mean if a person wants to 'selectively boycott' Chinese goods...I suppose thwey can simply draw their own lines about the degree to which they are willing to sacrifice certain things . . . .
Or, mabey one wants to wholly & sacrificially boycott by buying other-made more expensive items and not driving gas operated vehicles, etc. etc . . . . . . .
or mabey you wanna be a tru-blu, really committed, gung-ho boycotter and go through every single item in your possession, purging you entire home of ANY & ALL items made in China . . . .which may or may not include items constructed with some parts made in China . . .
And to do all THAT with a truly committed heart, you should NOT sell it in a yard sale, or give it to freinds unconcerned about the 'cause'. . . . You really should destroy/burn the items. I mean WHY would anyone so committed to a cause want ANYONE eles to be defiled with those things anyway!
I mean....look. This could get 'pritty nitty-gritty'.
Mabey you want to be so gung-ho that you become an inclusionary boycotter . . . so find out what other nations, or nationalities of peoples are producing goods from the dirt-cheap wages (which, interestingly enough, they're so humbley, grovelingly, thankful for) and boycott those items too . . .
Well, thanx for the honest and interesting replies. I think I have a complete conviction about the notion now, rather then a simple 'opinion'.
Nuff sed.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
It's not JUST about chinese goods it's about Walmart's business practices. Read the story or view it online.
Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
"Since most people are lazy , and not very loyal, they will be glad to get everything in one store. In my eyes, they are small town killers." -------------------- Right on, John Deaton. WallyWorlds exist because so many people choose to give them money. Most people don't work at Wally, so they don't care about employment conditions there. Most people aren't in the hardware business, so they care if their old neighbor can't keep his store anymore. They don't make the things sold at Wally, so they don't care if Wally pays foreign labor instead of American.
I believe these Consumers are going to consume themselves out of house and home. It's an economic principle that money spent near home goes further, because money sent away doesn't all come back. And of course, when your neighbors don't have money or jobs or anything to do, life starts to get dull and worrisome.
We may see some subtle changes in the next few years, after oil has cost @55/barrel for a while. Demand is rising largely because a Middle Class is emerging in foreign countries where the Wallies invest. In the US, Wally and the other Big Boxes, and the whole fact of suburban sprawl and malls, was made possible by cheap oil. For 50 years, most Americans have believed it was cheaper to drive 5 miles for lower prices, than to walk to the neighborhood Mom & Pop. Eventually, this will not be the case, but unfortunately, Mom & Pop will be long gone.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
The malls *took business away* from the mom and pops and the downtown business strips - because people liked the notion of going to one location, under one roof, to get whatever they wanted.
The same principle applies to Walmart except they positioned themselves even closer to rural communities so people wouldn't have to drive as far to the malls or even farther to downtown strip businesses that often charged for parking.
Mom and Pop business has never paid premium wages to their employees - only in rare circumstances.
So what's the beef? Some of you people act like Walmart is the devil...
You're losing sight that even the poorest among us in America is considered Wealthy beyond imagination by 2/3 of the rest of the world.
If the employees of Walmart were treated so shabbily, I'm sure they could simply leave and find minimum wage work elsewhere such as McDonalds.
Sorry to say, but if you blink a few times really hard you'll discover that the "general store" of yesteryear only exists in "The Walton's" re-runs.
I'm glad for Walmart because they keep all the other stores competitive. If you don't like the thought that money spent on Chinese stuff doesn't stay in the states...then do like I do and don't buy the Chinese stuff.
I buy as much US stuff as I can...and get a lot of it from Walmart at competitive prices....the stuff I can't get from Walmart that is US made, I try to get at other retailers and sometimes even, the very expensive mom and pops.
Edit: Happy fathers day....and make sure you check the label on that tie.
[ June 19, 2005, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
As far as the Chinese are concerned...personally I believe the principle reason for military aggression on their part would ultimately be because of over-population. THere are a BILLION people in Red China, a number that is growing exponentially, whereas the U.S> has what? 250 million?
Worldwide, overpopulation is going to become a problem, and it doesn't matter how much they are benefiting economically. Ultimately it will be a Land Grab, just for sheer living space.
Imagine a future not to far away where technology allows for the creation of WMD's not weapons of mass destruction, but of mass DEATH that can eliminate populations while leaving structures and facilities intact. Some idiot will figure that out, and when they do, America and every other fertile industrial nation will be in their sights.
And if the above scenario does not prove to be true, certainly SOMETHING on a global scale WILL take place to curb the rise in population.
here is a report, taken from overpopulation.com:
Latest UN Projections: World Population Will Reach 9.1 Billion By 2050
By Brian Carnell
Saturday, April 23, 2005
In February the United Nations Population Division released the 2004 revisions to its World Population Prospects publication, projecting how much further world population is likely to grow.
Under the UN's medium variant scenario, world population will reach 9.1 billion in 2050. This represents a slight upward revision from more recent estimates that had world population reaching just 8.9 billion in 2050.
Almost all of that growth will occur in the developing world. Ninety-five percent of all population growth today is occurring in the developing world compared to just 5 percent in the developed world according to the UN Population Division. Of that estimated 9.1 billion, only slightly over 1.2 billion will live in countries that are currently designated as developed -- about what the population of the developed world is today.
The medium variant assumes that the total fertility for women worldwide is going to drop from its current level of 2.6 to just slightly over 2 by 2050. If the worldwide TFR average were to only decline slightly to just over 2.5 -- the high variant scenario -- world population would reach 10.6 billion by 2050. If it were to decline faster, however, and fall to about 1.5 -- the low variant -- world population would reach just 7.6 billion in 2050.
Global life expectancy continues to rise. The Population Division reports that global life expectancy rose from an estimated 47 years in 1950-1955 to 65 years in 2000-2005. By 2045-50, global life expectancy is expected to rise to 75 years. In developed countries, where life expectancy averages 76 years today, it is expected to reach 82 years by 2045-50.
Where will the world put another 3-4 BILLION people? There are only 2 conclusions: 1. Spacefaring technology MUST advance to such a degree that offworld colonization becomes a possibility. 2. Some World gov't(s) will take it upon themselves to alleviate the stress by war.
It will be far worse in other nations than it will be here in the good ol us of a, and the green eyed monster, jealousy is likely gonna take a bite outta us.
I know, I know, just more "inane ranting" right? Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Todd,
You didn't read the story now did you?
If you did then you have justified your way blind.
Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
Barry said "Where will the world put another 3-4 BILLION people? There are only 2 conclusions: 1. Spacefaring technology MUST advance to such a degree that offworld colonization becomes a possibility. 2. Some World gov't(s) will take it upon themselves to alleviate the stress by war." ---------------------- There are a couple other alternatives:
Humans will evolve into social creatures who are perfectly happy living on top of each other, with annual rent hikes. We already see how harmoniously they get along in New York, New Dehli, Beijing, Caracas, any large city you care to name.
And then there's the prospect of Solipcism. It will need a prettier-sounding name, but it means essentially "brains in a vat." The physical world exists because we perceive it with our senses; what we don't perceive does not exist, as far as we know. A dream is reality, as long as you don't wake up.If the brain receives sufficient nutrition to do that, there is no need for arms, legs and moving around. Think of the space that would save! Everybody could star in his own movie, or video game, for eternity. It would be like the "feelies" that Huxley describes in _Brave New World_, except that you wouldn't have to get up and go back some boring job.
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
ARRRRRRGH !!!!!! Bruce! Then just bring on the matrix and we'll all be coppertops.
I would not choose that second choice...I'm already too much of a "legend in my own mind" lol
And as far as Human evolutuon of Happiness? AIN'T gonna happen.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
lol Barry . . . . . fret thee not . . .
Donch'a know the world will annihilate itself by then?? You know....it's along the lines of 'too many cooks in the kitchen'. . .
Besides, many people now believe abortion, aparthiyd, euthenasia and the starvation of those in 'vegetative states', as well as various forms of communist population control is now just fine... Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
Besides, many people now believe abortion, aparthiyd, euthenasia and the starvation of those in 'vegetative states', as well as various forms of communist population control is now just fine... sheila do you not understand the "word" communisum or is just something you use to lable everything that isnt in agreement with your "misinformed" beliefs? you need to read about the original 13 colinies that made up this counrty in the begining. marxist/lenin/stalin/chinese communisium now is a form of govt....that you must be refering to. as for abortion,euthinasia, starvation.....the 1st 2 are ok to me, as for the starvation....it only happened once...so it dont count. in any large population birth control and elimination of the old have many ways of being delt with. the eskimos put their old out on the ice ..to be polar bear food. the hawwian people used to put children that were deformed or sickly into a canoe and send them off to their death. trying to keep all the people alive is a western notion brought on by religious/political belives created in this country. people have been born & dying for millions of years....and to think your gona change that is with any beliefs is a fantasy. as for wally world...my parents had a "general store 1950-57. grocery's meat, some produce when it was available. we got run outa business by IGA's INDEPENTANT GROCERY'S ASSOCOATION. this was the beginning of the "quantity buying power" those who joined in this got better prices, and sold for less then my parents could. so my parents cloesed the store...and opened a BAR!!! all cash money.
[ June 19, 2005, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Opie, I just used communism as ONE of the many examples of ways that human life is not esteemed in many places on the globe. There are even more ways I did'nt mention.
While I may not agree with every single tenet of the U.S. government & our business market, I always say to anyone who basically gripes, whines and complains and does'nt appreciate or value our economy, government, capitalism, entrepeneurship, or anything else that contributes to what makes the U.S. the greatest country on earth:
PICK A BETTER COUNTRY.
As for Wal-Mart, Todd makes perfect sense.
When you get right down to brass tacks . . . it's a big ol' department store that was the capitalist genius of someone who said, "Hey, why don't we combine a full grocery store with regular merchandise? It'll be like a giant convenience store!"
Since the frontier days, there have always been bigger & better stores that displaced those merchants who were unwilling to change or grow with the needs . . . .
It's in every area of business.
I still, hate Wal-mart because it's gotten so big it's really inconvenient . . .
(Before they built the 'super' one) I remember the first Wal-Mart and how much more stuff it had than our most-loved 'Gibsons', Kress and 'Masons'. Wal-Mart just had more stuff. They did'nt come in and take over all at once with a super store . . .they just had a more stuff.
Hey, the other dept. stores had a fighting chnace to get a little more stuff too...
Why did'nt those Department stores take out a loan and compete??? What was stopping them??
K-Mart did. Target did.
C'mon.
It's a free country . . . .
(at present)
Don't cry in your cereal because someone decided to pout and give up, or were too small to hang with the program or meet the demand . . . . . .
The consumer 'voted' with their choice of consumption location.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
don't pick another country... continue to believe that what made this country (I know Letterville is global... but this thread is about America) great was that if the people pay-the-fuk-attention... we can spot problems on the horizon & that we, as a group, can solve or avoid & therefore evolve through the democratic (as in democracy... not the party )steering this great country on the paths of rightousness, (not your rightousness, my rightousness, or so&so's rightousness... but the true right path... that stands apart from the wrong path to the majority of the people who bother to pay attention... who bother to formulate their own opinion, & who bother to have a say in where this country is headed. If you don't like it... don't let anyone tel you to leave... read, study, THINK... & vote (with your dollars & your ballots)
Speaking of paying attention... & of reading... (& of thinking for yourselves) ...the transcript of the PBS documentary of what this thread is really about has been posted... is anyone bothering to read it before hijacking this into a discusion about weather or not Todd should boycott goods from China... or weather Walmart has effeciant business practices that are currently legal & acceptable & therefore beyond reproach & everyone else should follow their business model or go bankrupt & quit complaining because they didn't copy Walmart...
Like Bob Rochon said "It's not JUST about chinese goods it's about Walmart's business practices. Read the story or view it online."
If anyone who didn't read the transcripts from this recent show & wants to reply to the original topic instead of burying it in meaningless meanderings of mental mania... here is another LINK Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
Sheila ---but how do we know that'll be the way it'll happen? Annhilation I mean? With that you are alluding to the second coming of ****edited for content per BB rules**** followed by ****** millennial reign?
Ah but therein lies my own (and others I am sure) crisis of *****....HOW MANY GENERATIONS have thought the same thing?
and they were wrong? Who knows what *** will do? Or won't?
If this world has taught any lesson, it is this cruel and bitter though it is, nonetheles the truth: "The rain falls on the Just and unjust alike (and who is who anyway?)"
No. the fact is the world may JUST go on for hundreds of years more...we DO NOT know. And if it does, the problems I mentioned will be factors in the next global conflict....or we will create an alternative focus for our frustration and anxiety.
But I doubt it. the human race just ain't that creative. and while I believe in the ****, I no longer presume to know his timetable.
*sigh*
[ June 19, 2005, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Barry Branscum ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Bob...PBS doesn't top my list as an unbiased newsworthy agency...not with the likes of Bill Moyers working for them....
In any event, like I mentioned before....I focus on buying American made products and food from them....and if everybody did the same they'd be sending a message to any "Chinese" manufacturing connection they might have.
Like any store, if a product isn't selling, they'll replace it with one that is....and if enough people quit buying China's crap...eventually it would be replaced with something worthy of our dollars.
I went to Walmart last night and spent $94 on food - - none of which was produced by Walmart in China.
David Wright has it right in my opinion.
I hope everyone who has been interested in this thread and following each post realizes that I am a selective shopper at Wally World....I'm not into buying fake woodgrain laminated over chipboard furniture made in China....I'm looking for reasonably priced American made name brand products .
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Good point Doug, (about not leaving but stay and learn...) I'm just observing that it seems like the biggest complainers are the most clueless and have no aptitude, and if they hate it here SO bad, why not move out?
Yes I read the stuff about Wal-Mart and yeh, so we ventured off onto a little side discussion. No biggie, and no silly 'fights' too, yay!. We simply had a discussion and it was really fun and interesting to me. I learnt somethin'. We've once again proven that people can conduct themselves in logical and cognizant adult discussions which is even complete with many disagreements maintained respectfully.
For that I say, Thank you all.
Of course, did'nt we know all along that the entire thread would either roll off into oblivion or pick back up on, and continue the topic?
Why, yeh.
*Barry ...let me see if I can decipher this 'Bible code' . . . (yeh book plug too, lol) um, Yes **** is the ONLY one who knows when the ******** will happen . . .(By the way, had all those previous generations done some serious studying of the *****, they would have discovered that the 6 day war and the re-establishing of Israel as a nation (1948-49) were 2 major prohecies yet to be fulfilled . . . . there are no major prohecies left to be fulfilled except the completion of the ten horns (I think we are at 9 now-league of nations, one-world gov, blah-blah-blah-let's not go there on this post) and a majorly huge war . . . .
Hey, you can gauge impending stormy weather by the clouds and scent of wet earth, and you can read the signs of spring approaching by buds on the branches, and . . . .blast the code, I'm really just saying LOOK UP for our redemption draweth nigh, is all..
I'm lookin' forward to it? Ain'chu?
(Sistah Love steps away from the pulpit)
No tomatoes please or love offerings. Sermon's over.
*Politically correct disclaimer: This breif mention of religion, certain books, and a certain God, was a short-answer reply to one individual's comments and is no way intended to offend anyone nor incite a riot of arguments about beliefs. Should the person who initiated these specific comments, (or other people), care to delve further into the discussion, feel free to contact someone privately, as I would hate to see such an interesting topic be shredded in debate, or cause the entire thread locked-down or deleted.
Thanx. Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
which god you talkin bout mama? jeohva, budda, vishnu, mohamad....rain god, or the one you sacrifice virgins to.....or the god of the pagans, santa maria, voodoo, the same one they worshiped at machupucu, or the norse god of fire, the jewish god, the luthernes, mehodists, pentacostals, baptist, the orthadox, or american indian gods? see...how one word can mean so many things.....to so many differnt people.....this is why it not usually a discussionable subject here...
[ June 20, 2005, 12:56 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Jesus is coming to a Wal-Mart near you!
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Whoo - - eeee....I hope you've installed lightening rods on that new building OP. hehehehehe
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Gee whiz Opie. I wish you'da read the PC disclaimer.
EAT A STEAK!
Had a thought about Wal-Mart VS Mom-&-Pop joints. . . .ha...that could be a pun . . .'joints' . . . artritis . . .stiff? ANYWAY....
You hardly ever hear anyone look at the idea that mabey, might, quite possibley, it could be, that the only reaason people shopped Mom & Pop shops in the first place is 'cause that's ALL there WAS before large dept. stores. Otherwise, they'd STILL be satisfied with shopping mom & pop's in spite of larger stores . . . I mean, I just get tired of hearing one side of the idea constantly 'Oh big biz ran poor ol' mom & pop out'a biz blah-blah-blah' being spouted as if it makes one the epitome of compassion to keep reiterating that.
ok.
I'm done.
I think.
Are any of y'all havin' as much fun as I am??
[ June 20, 2005, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Sheila Ferrell ]
Posted by Steve Purcell (Member # 1140) on :
Yesterday, my kids (God love 'em ) decided, last minute, to throw me a barbecue on the deck, complete with guests. This, of course, meant that I had to scramble, not only to clean house & deck, but to restore the ol' Char-Broil to a working status (new burner,etc).
Long story short; I gave the local mom&pop hardware the first pitch, and they whiffed. So, I then made the half-hour run to Hyannis, thru Sunday afternoon tourist traffic, to the big box store.
Not only did they have what I needed (made in USA, btw), but because it was the LAST ONE, and had been opened, they took 50% off their price, saving me twenty bux.
My take on this? It's our own lazy, cheap, wasteful habits that close the mom&pops, not the machination of an "evil corporate empire".
**spelling**
[ June 20, 2005, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: Steve Purcell ]
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
People sit on their "made in Taiwan" couches watching their Samsung TV, blabbing on their Nokia cell phones, eating junk food and complaining about how crappy everything is in the United States.
We drive SUV's that get less MPG than my '66 Chevy Impala, fire shot's into oil producing nations and wonder why gas prices have gone up. DUH!
We go to Wal-Mart looking for low prices always, forgetting the old adage "you get what you pay for", then complain that they are costing us jobs in this country.
What was once know as "reperesentation of the people" has turned into a bunch of "smile-look-good-on-camera, 60-second-sound-bite-spouting, sell-my-memoirs-when-I'm-not-reelected-for-a-20th-term' bunch of unmotivated shysters.
Criminals go free because we don't have enough room to lock them up, and then we complain that our taxes are raised because the police force in town needs more money to combat crime...BECAUSE OF ALL THE REPEAT OFFENDERS ON THE STREETS! Then to add insult to injury, we make the criminals rich buying books full of THEIR MEMOIRS!
Complain all we want, if you want to "know whos doing this to the US", just look at the question. The answer's right there at the end..US!
Mini Gavin
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
After my dad passed away, I went thru a huge box of pictures and letters and discovered lots of old news-paper articles that my parents had tucked away.
Here's a cute "Dear Abby" article, No date, but it's brown from age. It's one of several that my Dad saved. . .;
________________________________________________ DEAR ABBY: Some time ago you had an article in your column titled "Only in America". It poked fun at Americans who buy everything they wear and use from some foreign country. I think Americans need to be reminded to BUY AMERICAN. Thanks - PATRIOTIC IN MAINE
DEAR PATRIOTIC: Once my readers see the following, I'm sure many of them will agree with you. ONLY IN AMERICA
"He drove his German car made of Swedish steel and interior of Argentine leather to a gasoline station where he filled up with Arab oil shipped in a Liberian tanker and bought two French tires composed of rubber from Sri Lanka.
At home, he dropped his Moroccan breif case, hung up his Scottich tweed-wool coat, removed his Italian shoes, and Egyptian cotton shirt, then donned a Hong Kong robe and matching slippers from Taiwan.
More comfortable now, he poured a cup of hot Brazilian coffee in an English coffee mug, set a Mexcian placemat on an Irish linen tablecloth atop a Danish table varnished with linseed oil from India. Then he filled his Austrian pipe with Turkish tobacco, lit it, and picked up a Japanese ballpoint pen with which he wrote a letter to his congressman demanding to know why the United States has an unfavorable balance of trade..."
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Sheila - excellent...that says it all....nothing wrong with competitive shopping...but, we cannot gripe if we're willing to buy everything from outside the country to save even more....again, that's why I try and buy USA whenever I can whether it's at Walmart or anywhere else.
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
America decided that looking good was the same as being good. Style over substance. Image is everything. oBEY YOUR THIRST. JUST DO IT. And so on.....point is we have forgotten what it is to be American, and we are too PC to find it.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
It's kind'a humorous now . . .
but does anyone remember having, or buying a foreign-made, imported item when it was a sign of classiness, wealth, or prestige as it was often a very beautiful and rare item??
Now we 'brag' . . ."THIS is an AMERICAN made item!" . . .right here in our own country.
lol.
In all actuality, I never pay attention to where something is made. I suppose I am a bad girl . . . spoiled & insensitive...
I buy what I like or need where ever it's at.
Posted by Rovelle W. Gratz (Member # 4404) on :
Some folks like Wally World.....its hard to find a parking place.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Like minds usually stick together Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
Shelia, you might get tired of it, but it'll still be said. Small local grocers, etc. cant compete with large corporations like Wal-Mart cause Wal-Mart buys in bulk and in very large quantities. Where a small grocer might pay 5.00 for an item, wal-mart will pay 2.00 or even cheaper, therefore they can offer the item at a large savings to the customer. My dad ran a small grocery business for 16 years and did well, until the larger stores like Food City, Kroger, etc. came into town. One thing about people is they'll drive wherever the savings are. Even if its just a penny. My dad had everything in his store, food, drink, hardware, toys, music,fresh meats, etc. He had this saying,"If we dont got it, you dont need it." But having it is one thing, being able to sell it at a profit is another. Myself, I hate to see the small, conveinent general stores go away. You could go inside and sit with friends, enjoy good food, and get what you need for home. At least you could in my dads store. The big stores and corporations eat up the small business man and woman. Its a sad fact for sure. Ive seen it firsthand. And I dont think its a copout to say that this happens, because it does.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
Smartest thing said in this thread, said by someone who actually thinks for himself.
quote:Originally posted by Jon Aston: Does Wal*Mart buy signs from any of you? Will they ever? Support your local merchants whenever possible. It's in your own best interest. Worth alot more than the money you think you're saving.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I don't know Chris,
I think John Deaton just made a very eloquent, insightful counterpoint...and I think he thinks for himself.
There is without a doubt a certain meloncholy, nostalgic longing for slower, simpler, more neighborly times that have been displaced by modern conveniences. No denying that.
On the other hand....I'd be curious as to what computer everyone is using to compose their opinions on the evils of Walmart; HP, Dell, Toshiba, Sony, Gateway, Compaq (God forbid Compaq)?
These are all mass produced computers that sell at competitive prices that no small town local computer shop can touch. Many small towns or small towns near you most likely have a little local computer shop that custom makes cloned computers.
What kept you from buying from them? Please don't tell me price wasn't a factor in your computer buying decision?
Please tell me that the buying power of any of these mega computer builders and the warranties, support, and 24/7 service they can afford to offer as a RESULT of their huge buying power wasn't the reason from keeping you from buying from the local guy.
I am Todd Gill - I own a Gateway, Dell, Toshiba, and two home brew...er home built computers...and I actually do think for myself.
[ June 21, 2005, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Dittos that Todd.
John has a personal experience that is the factual basis for his comment. Who thought that up for him?
Everyone of my statements came from questioning, listening, respecting others opinions, reasoning, thinking, and forming not just opinions, but my own convictions.
For that matter, what adult thinks for anybody and how would you be able to tell if someone was thinking for someone else . . . 'specially on a written forum??
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
Stayed out of this one up to now---for no particularly good reason. Probably as much as anything is the doubt I have about being able to think for myself.
Oh, well.
On the computer question raised---there are three in this household. My wife's is a three year old Dell. The one for the shop and internet is the oldest of the bunch, and locally put together. The third is also locally built, and only used for photo storage/editing, and the flight sims. Lots of flight sims, and lots of add-on aircraft and scenery. Two out of three for local service and upgrades as needed.
The components in each, though, are from mass-producing companies i.e. Intel, Sony, etc.and most of these are offshore companies.
The point is, there is no point. I already said I have doubts about my ability to think for myself.
As far as Wally-World---it's presence is a fact of life---get used to it. Has it been good for the country? Hard to say. Good points and bad. The same is true for 'most any biz. All the posts here aren't going to make an ounce of difference one way or another.
bill preston
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
John, thank you for sharing your family's experience. Sadly, some people will never be able to see past their own noses to see how that could be prevented, nor will they ever see the ripple effect of their actions.
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
quote:On the other hand....I'd be curious as to what computer everyone is using to compose their opinions on the evils of Walmart; HP, Dell, Toshiba, Sony, Gateway, Compaq (God forbid Compaq)?
I had mine built for me by a LETTERHEAD.
Posted by Mark Perkins (Member # 296) on :
Originally posted by Jon Aston: Does Wal*Mart buy signs from any of you? Will they ever? Support your local merchants whenever possible. It's in your own best interest. Worth alot more than the money you think you're saving.
Well they haven't bought any signs from me but I do some work for them at their distribution center replacing stripes on trucks and logos on trailers when they are wrecked and repaired. They are the only customer of mine who hasn't had a fit about me charging travel time, and they pay me well to install their graphics. What is so strange when working at their truck shop is that everyone from the guy sweeping the floor to the mechanics to the supervisors all say that working for wal mart is the best job they have ever had. They don't have to advertise for truck drivers because they have a long list of people waiting....why? Good pay, decent hours and fairly nice trucks. I used to be a trucker and know two guys who sold their own trucks to go drive for wal mart
That said I'll buy from our local hardware store or grocery before I would wal mart.
The wal mart in our lil town may soon be replaced by a super wal mart.....I say may because they are dealing with a friend of mines dad to buy his property....picture this a 70 something year old cajun farmer who doesn't need to sell that land and he knows he has wal mart by the balls lol when they were close to closing on the property he tells them.......well I want my cousin Joe to get all the dirt work.....ohh we don't work that way says wal mart......go build somewhere else says the farmer ha ha cousin Joe ended up with the dirt work. But I guess the wal mart lawyers aren't too swift they didn't realize that after they bought said property from the farmer he then told them about the ten feet of property he owned under a company name thats inbetween the highway and the land they bought...he's got them by the balls again Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Chris...I am sorry you took offense to me defending my (and everyone else who contributed to this 100+ post minus Jon Aston)ability to think for myself....and decided to send me a private message calling me a "ranting freeloader."
And as long as you feel it's ok to broadly make comments such as this:
quote:Smartest thing said in this thread, said by someone who actually thinks for himself.
Then I will most definately address you by name.
According to this site...there have been 41,164 distinct IP's that have visited this site since 1997. I find it hard to believe that each one has become a "member" of this club....which means that there are literally thousands of us "free-loaders" who poke in here.
Just when I think I might throw the 50 bucks in the kitty, some nasty, evil remarks like yours make me decide otherwise.
There's no use in hiding your nastiness in personal messages....I don't think your image could suffer if you kept them public. Rudeness goes two ways.
[ June 21, 2005, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
quote:Originally posted by Todd Gill: B
In any event, like I mentioned before....I focus on buying American made products and food from them....
Unfortunately it's not that cut and dry. We're in a Global Economy now so even though something is "Made in USA" it doesn't mean components of it weren't manufacturered elsewhere... but you do what you can despite the level of control you really don't have over its origin.
As far as computers.. I'm using an Apple, why didn't you put them on your list?? There aren't any local options for getting a Mac so I had to order it from California. Most of my customers are in Cali so I guess it all evens out.
Dell, Sony, compaq etc etc are not the low price bidders, just the low quality ones. In most cases local mom and pop computer places CAN beat the "big box computer" guys' pricing - they can provide a higher quality machine at the same price, or equivalent quality at a lower price. Mom and Pop just lack in the marketing department, they rely on word of mouth which is fine for most, but the general populous doesn't realize what they can really get for their money. They go for the convenient option of configuring a system online from a name they see slathered everywhere.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Heads
I watched all five of the pieces from the link posted by Bob Rochon.
The bottom line is this: unless everybody is willing to boycott Wal*Mart, they will continue to dominate their market. So, if you can't beat em - join em! Say what you will about their tactics, but, millions go there every day. Even those who lost their jobs!
How ironic that they are building a store next to a factory that they ran out of business. You can bet that that town will in fact support Wal*Mart.
What are the chances that you can get even 100 people to support a Wal*Mart boycott?
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Mike - you make some great points....especially about the marketing.
I've built a couple machines myself and have discovered that they cost me a bit more than the biggies...and although I can muddle my way through assembling them and getting them running....I don't have any kind of tech support or hassle-free warranty replacement....
but you're right...the mom and pop's don't have the marketing clout of the large companies and that is a disadvantage to them for sure.
A very talented Novell certified buddy of mine had a computer shop called PC Complete in town...he lasted 2 1/2 years before having to close the doors.
It was very hard to compete.
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
Some friends of mine opened a computer store a couple years after I opened my shop. They started with financing solely on CREDIT CARDS to get started. Imagine that, over 50 grand in high interest credit cards. At first they offered computers upgrades and training, then an opportunity came to offer dial up, and now they make nearly a quarter million a year in internet service alone. These days they have diversified to offer video games and sattelite systems. The sattelite installs some times net them 4 grand a week.
I said all that to say it CAN be done, little fish competing in big ponds...it just takes some thinking, some luck and a little brass in the undies.
I think even in the walmart world people can become successful, but to do that they have to become innovators.
Sorry to take their names in vain, but look at Ricky Jackson with his successes on the "dark side", as well as Mike Lavalee...with his high profile and innovative work. And those folks are just within our industry.
Granted, I can't say I have succeeded to the degree of either of them, or my computer store buddies...but I will say that I started out borrowing my rent money from my dad, and grossing a whopping 753.00 the first month we were in business. My "shop" was my living room and gravel carport, my "equipment" was four dry windsor and newton 580's. That first year we got by on food stamps, frankly...but we kept plugging. Now we have a 3600 square foot facility with everything we need but a versacamm(I'm working on it). Last year was our first to do six figures, and this year is looking even better.
I ain't getting rich (yet), nor am I living up to the successes of some others here, but dang it, its mine! ANd I built it IN the walmart world.
Could it be that all the blah blahs about folks being raped by the "BIG FISH" might cover the fact that they like the conveniences that being "screwed" affords them, more than they desire to do anything personally about it?
I don't care what you do....to a big degree, personal, financial and business success or failure is up to the individual, isn't it?
[ June 21, 2005, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Barry Branscum ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Strange, by comparison, how many times I've seen people here (& elsewhere)complaining about M$ & Bill Gates... He was going whole hog for more of the share of pie then some thought was legal, & in fact some legal decisions were made to curb that. A lot of legal decisions that were already in place were put there because of situations that occured in an earlier time. I don't claim to know enough to speak intelligently about those laws, or when, & under what circumstances, they came to be... but I think when a business practice grows to a point that it may be doing more harm then good (even if it is doing both).. it doesn't matter if it was built up on good legal practices... or efficient business strategies... or somewhat acceptable power plays over those entities beholden to it... eventually the laws we have were written because as times change, & situations occur... decisions are made by the majority after weighing the cost/benefit ratios. The question to me is less about if Wal Mart's practices are legitimate & more about if they should be... & what risk's they present if they continue unchecked.
On the topic of right/wrong business practices, from a global standpoint, other countries are already being investigated for creating ficticious currency valuations solely for the purpose of making huge illicit gains through the imbalance of trade with the US. If the mega retailers here are in some small way contributing to that, this is another reason to take notice. I don't want my government wiping my azz for me, but I have no problem for expert economists & foriegn trade analysts figuring out problems that our ever changing world may be creating & legislating new checks & balances to address them before they get out of hand. I've never in this thread or anywhere claimed to boycott WM, foriegn goods or any other mega retailers... but the various documentaries that I've seen or read transcripts have got my attention enough to believe that the short answer to the question posed in this threads topic is NO!
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
well at least the products I've designed, built and sold were made in the good ol'USA from American steel and will last forever, those of you who bought my products could attest to that.
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
Other than to say I have not been in a WalMart but twice on the general principle that I just don't want to support a store that takes up the size of a small village and puts local stores out of business -----
I can only contribute here that I have been watching this thread grow, and have not taken the time to read it, yet. Being ever curious I still look forward to learning about you'all's opionions, and I also have printed out the transcript of the CBS show, which turned into a quarter ream of paper, and have it on my porch waiting.
This morning this showed up in my email. I will post it, because it pertains to the topic.
I dunno Myra, Danny Glover? Let him and his cronies clean up the dung and corruption in their own backyard first.
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
What's wrong with Danny Glover, David? Or with what is said in the link? What cronies? What dung/corruption/back yard?
Where is this information available? I don't like being so ignorant of all this
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Walmart isn't perfect...so I buy as much US and friendly nation merchandise from them as possible...avoiding Chinese crap...hopefully if enough people figure out that the trade deficit with China is killing us in more than one way...and boycott their junk....we can send a message and affect change.
Trust me...our [nations] love of cheap Chinese goods will be our undoing if we aren't careful....and it WILL come down to a China/Taiwan/USA showdown in most of our lifestimes.
We're helping build China up against ourselves and that's no paranoia talking:
Missles and technology takes money....and we're supplying it to them.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
I don't think Danny Glover is very persuasive in his argument that WalMart is endangering the children of the world. I'm actually more suspicious of the destructive influence of Hollywood in that regard.
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
I haven't yet read his link but, Todd is telling it like it is. The government of China is not our friend. But that in itself doesn't necessarily put Walmart in the wrong.
why is it that American companies sometimes say " Buy American " while ther products are either made in China or Taiwan but on the package itself says " printed in the USA " Is this all they can afford. As I see it, this happens bigtime in the automotive and motorcycle industry and Custom Chrome is one which does just with their chopper parts and add on's. There are an extremely very few big companies that make their own parts in the USA and thats a fact. You may put your faith in some household names of what products you've used for years only to find out that they are no longer made in the USA and whose fault is that? Not that it makes a difference but the days of the manufacturers triple their cost to sell wholesale has taken a sharp turn to an exuberant percentage at the sake of the middle man. The cost to us is then double or tripled. Companies do this for themselves to save money and we as buyers of the end product aren't supposed to have a clue.
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
I read some in the links you posted, Wayne, and am newly amazed at how little I know!
Thanks for passing this stuff on. Live and learn.
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
I didn't know those things either. The last movie I remember watching, starring Danny Glover (and Danny Devito maybe?) was this comedy called "Gone Fishin'". It was hilarious. What a disapointment.
[ June 23, 2005, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
THE SELLING OF AMERICA CONTINUES, last buyers were the JAPANESE, look at all the JAP car companies who OWN PROPERTY(and how many of you drive JAP vehicles)in the USA and also OWN BIG CATTLE RANCHES. SONY BOUGHT OUT RCA.......while all the people are locked in a debate over who is a liberal or a neocon!!!!!! we who had the greatest nation after WW2,405399 american boys gave it there all to protect this country from a couple of war mongers. those that came home and picked up that UNIFIED spirit they had in the service, of creating a place of honor and dignity thru their work ethic and set out to raise the children and their familys with the same UNITY, HONOR, DIGNITY & ABLITIY to rise above the rest. but somehow their children lost all the things the WW 2 vets held precious...and most of all the WORK ETHIC got really lost. we built one of the greatest roadway system in the world(ike 1953-60)we produced the most steel, coal, of any nation till the japanese started to buy it all..and they wound up buying the STEEL PRODUCER COMPANIES and moved them outa the country. we have oil/coal/ natural gas sitting in this country while we BUY IT ALL FROM OTHERS....and now china is "THE BUYER OF AMERICA" HOW MUCH MORE CAN WE WHORE OURSELVES.....before their is NO U.S.A.? WAKE UP PEOPLE....your going to be a SERVANT to the NATIONS that are now buying up OUR LAZY A.S.S.E.S!!!!!!! iam 60 so much future aint that long, you with children and grand children.....need to OPEN YOUR EYES.....can we(the people)be the people our fathers & freinds fought and gave their lives for...so we wouldnt be a SUBSERVANT NATION!
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Joe - - that was beautiful! I actually agreed with you....the passionate truth layed out by OP.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Clinton signed the NAFTA. That great sucking sound?????/ yes its NAFTA and Clinton signed it
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
The problem is not China. If we'd enforce our own laws the trade problem would take care of itself. Mexican laborers? If employers would do a better job of collecting proper identification that would eliminate that problem. Immigrants? You ever notice how many of the immigrants we view as problems come from countries that we have economically destroyed? You stop the trade embargo against Cuba today it will be the hottest tourist destination in the Northern Hemisphere by tomorrow.
Closing our friggin' borders against international trade is nothing but national suicide. Don't fear the Chinese, fear the fact that we are all sheep, that our founding fathers started a damn revolution over far less than tolerate out of our government now.
[ June 23, 2005, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: Patrick Whatley ]
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
When is Lou Dobbs from CNN gonna post?
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
"Patrick Whatley, having solved all the world's problems with his deft knowledge of all things political takes his place with Groucho Marx and Alfred E. Neuman in the hall of heroes."
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
Damn I wish I'd copied what I edited before you said that. Sorry about that, I'm not trying to hide from it.
CLOSING THE BORDERS IS NOT THE FRIGGIN' ANSWER.
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
Actually i agree with you Pat. there is no easy answer.
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
Hell Barry, if you're gonna agree with me then I'm changing my mind.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
Clinton signed the NAFTA. That great sucking sound?????/ yes its NAFTA and Clinton signed it
you need to back up to 1970's...johnson(oil man)63-69(another great texan) NIXON,(i almost forgot him)69-74, you remember he was gona get impeached OR JAILED so he resigned, then FORD(nixons V.P.) 74-77 sat in and let what was left of NIXONS people finish what they were doin RAGAN-OMICS 81-89, DADDY BUSH 89-92 double digit interest rates in the USA...took away the ability to take your credit card interest as a tax deduction...ALL OF THE ABOVE....set this mess in place.....
(CLARIFACATION FOR GAVIN)(johnson left office in 69 not 68)
out of all the presidents who have been in office only 2 democrates have held office since kennedy/johnson and you want to blame all the bad econmics on clinton?(pres 93-2000) and i guess the bad peanut crops and 3 mile island disaster was jimmy carters fault?(pres 77-80) and i dont want the post locked, I DIDNT BRING IN POLITICS by naming any one party. LIKE I SAID IN THE OTHER POST... " THE SELLING OF AMERICA CONTINUES, ......."while all the people are locked in a debate over who is a liberal or a neocon!!!!!!" put this little statement between your ears...."DIVIDE AND CONQUER"....and you have it being done to you today...and your sittin back and letin it happen.
[ June 24, 2005, 03:32 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
Joey asked: why is it that American companies sometimes say " Buy American " while ther products are either made in China or Taiwan but on the package itself says "printed in the USA" ----------------------- Because they're damned liars. Er, I mean Public Relations Professionals.
What bothers me about cheap 3rd-World labor is sub-standard working conditions, sometimes virtual slavery. One reason US labor is more expensive is fairly-decent pay and safety standards. If you're injured on the job here, the boss-man can't just set you out with the trash. Lots of workers fought and died for this protection in the 19th century and well into the 20th. We could lose it, if we buy into something else.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss". We won't get fooled again? Oh yes we will. Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
the world has too many complex problems to resolved here... I think I'll just name an american president to blame it all on so we can get this discussion locked up & move on to other things.. oh, someone already did that, see ya by the water cooler Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Well...all's I got to say is the Detroit Pistons are gonna kick the Spur's butts tonight---in their own stadium like they did a couple nights ago....
and when it happens it's gonna be....mmmmmm....OP's fault. (boy I sure hope the Piston's win tonight!) Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
LOL Steve . . . .
Russ . . . I love that song . . . perfect song for the topic . . . Good on you DJ.
Doug ...where ya goin? This thread has become 'the water cooler' . . . Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
"Clinton signed the NAFTA. That great sucking sound?????/ yes its NAFTA and Clinton signed it you need to back up to 1970's...johnson(another great texan) RAGAN-OMICS, DAADY BUSH....ALL ....set this mess in place....."
Lets not get this thread pulled just yet,since Johnson left office in 68,and Reagan & Bush took office in 80,if he can somehow tie this into the 70's(which i feel sure he can),this could be one of the potentially greatest forrest gump moments in letterville history.
Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :
I think we are so immersed in the media and Hollywood tells us as what the "Joneses" have that we may not be aware how much we could live without. I bet we could live without 75% of what we have purchased in the last 15 years, and still live very comfortably.
We can each take the initiative one by one to set an example and teach our children and neighbors to conserve at least by the action, say for instance of recycling. Have a voice, let it be heard, make it attractive to the youth and others. What's wrong with driving an older model car? Or walking or riding a bike? Why can't we reuse our glass jars to store our food instead of toxic plastic that we are all familiar with.
I do buy some things from the WM but, mostly shop at the beautiful family owned stores here. I do own a couple cloth bags, and do use the new plastic wrap stuff that holds it all together, but, I may change that too.
There are so many ways to incite a riot, why not incite some good habits? Realistically, it may take some upper hand lobbying for change, but if the consumers group together more on personal changes, then the large manufacturers will listen. It does start at home. At least I can feel as though I did a little bit, but it just doesn't feel as though it's enough until I get five other folks to recycle or conserve on energy, etc. My entire family tends to stay away from Walmart and has recycled and gardened for 30 + years.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
TODD... DONT GET ME STARTED ON HIGH PAYED NON-EDUCATED, TREE TRUNK NECKED, MUSCLE HEADS,STERIOD PUMPED, DRUG TAKING, PARTY HARD, WOMAN RAPERS, OVERPAYED idots who claim to be SPORTSMEN!!!!! basketball, baseball, are not in my line up of anything to waste away on the couch watching... at least in football.....its full contact!!! as for most of the BAKETBALL, BASEBALL guys...if it wasnt for the game thay all would be workin at MIKEY D's!!!! baseball i havent cared for after the "sportsmen" WENT ON STRIKE...yea real SPORTSMEN. my last post was done in a hurry as i was HONGRY and want FOOD...so i edited it after i ate.......
[ June 24, 2005, 03:22 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
The Piston's couldn't make it happen! Whaaaaaaa! Posted by Mike O'Neill (Member # 470) on :
I think the header is misleading...
WAL-MART IS AMERICA
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
yeah, and STRANGE BREW is CANADA
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
Hello all: my name is lou Dobbs and I'm at Randy&Joy's home.There are some great comments here but it comes down to you wouldn't put all your money in one stock why would you only go to one store?I use Home depot and Rona for lumber needs.4different grocery stores,Walmart & Canadian Tire and Sears for other things.Spread the money around.No matter where you go you still have to check to see where things come from.well thanks for listening and Randy says hello. Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Looks like y'all have 'em up there too, Mike. Is the world safe from the Walmart invasion? http://www.walmartcanada.ca/
There are also stores in: Argentina Brazil China Germany Japan Korea Mexico Puerto Rico United Kingdom
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
"When the going gets tough, the tough go shopping."
Posted by Mike O'Neill (Member # 470) on :
Yes they're pervasive... my anology camparing Walmart to America wasn't all bad ... Super efficient, organized, effective on the plus side lacking in social conscience on the minus side ... a fair assessment I think.
Had one open here in January, local pop 9,000 and about as far out in the north-woods and as any sane person would go.
Helps the community in that fewer people are shopping out of town, small specialty stores have actually seen an increase in sales. Hurting 2 grocery stores badly, sales down over 60%, but to be fair it's really nice to pay national pricing for frozen, canned and dry goods. Most businesses have adjusted, one business closed but she was failing anyway.
The town's restaurants and hotels have picked up as people from Churchill Falls (3hours) and Goose Bay (6 hours) are spending weekends here to shop.
Posted by Del Badry (Member # 114) on :
I think the whole exercise of this program really shows people about cause and effect.... those cheap prices have to show up somewhere down the line and it is in manufacturing leaving traditional areas... walmart believes its improving american standard of living in allowing people to buy more... nothing is free and as a country your starting to see it in your balance of trade....
just my .25 worth...
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
I can't believe I haven't posted a single thing on a thread that has over 150 replies!
Had to actually scroll through them to make sure.
Here's my reply. Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
This thread has danced around the politically verboten for awhile---this oughta tear it for good.
How would you like to have your property seized under Eminent Domain for the likes of a WalMart? Thanks to a 5 to 4 Supreme Court decision in just the last day or two that could happen. It used to be that property was usually only taken for things like highway expansion or construction. Now, lower level governments can do the same thing in the hallowed name of the "greater good" or "economic development."
Right! Send the jobs---spell that as a form of economic development---overseas, then let the products made there come back to be sold to you from the site of your former property.
Gotta love it.
bill preston
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Just think, Bill...If they take your house for a Walmart...then you will have plenty of money to go in there and buy lots and lots of stuff, including a tent so you can go live under a bridge!
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
Too true, Si.
Walt Kelly's cartoon character Pogo Possum said a lotta years ago something to the effect that "we have seen the enemy, and he is us."
The worst part of this is the idea that your property can be taken under this expanded interpretation of Eminent Domain, and sold or given over to a PRIVATE developer.
So much for the idea of getting government off our backs.
Some developer shows up at my little corner of the world----he better pack a lunch, bring at least two knuckle-dragging types without foreheads, and come armed.
Bring on the padlock, Steve.
bill preston
[ June 24, 2005, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: Bill Preston ]
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
Bill;
"The worst part of this is the idea that your property can be taken under this expanded interpretation of Eminent Domain, and sold or given over to a PRIVATE developer."
Been there twice...arghhhh...lost both times...arghhhh.
Now, it's more legal and easier to do, the practice it's self, has been around for awhile, till now, they hid their dirty little faces, only leaving footprints, usually, across your back...(Walmart was one, I was on wrong end of one of their grabs in Az.)
"Some developer shows up at my little corner of the world----he better pack a lunch, bring at least two knuckle-dragging types without foreheads, and come armed." Need some help Bill? I can stop at Walmart on way in and get my own tent and stuff.....
Seriously...now is time to be sure that your will is in good order, after your gone, heirs could experience an almost unstoppable flow of events such as this. I'd make sure in trust form, in my opinion, the only way to ensure the dirty little bean counters don't end up w/it, using a loop hole...or at least, give heirs enough ammo in legal paperwork to fight such attempts.
Other than that, Si, going to have any extra room in culvert # 345? I'll have my own tent!!!
I suggest s'ghetti.....got sauce?
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
My brother-in-law lives in Sharon, Pa. He had just bought his house, began remodeling it, then found out that there would be a highway right through his front yard for the new SUPER WALMART traffic. They bought out a couple of his neighbors, but routed the road right across the front of his house. Nice, huh?
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
161
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Don't you mean '666', Rapid?
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
didnt hitler have the same law proir to WW 2?
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Dave . . .dang...I was sure I saw you earlier . . .
This thread is not for the faint of heart, and probably boring the socks of the 'children' who are always made fidgety by indepth adult conversation . . .
OP . . .and thanx to WAR he (Hitler) was curtailed . . .still...would'nt you say imminent domain smacks of communism?? Capitalism run amuck?? Hmmmmm?
Yeh. I'm 'pickin' on communism again. ;)Will I ever stop? No.
Mr. Preston . . . imminent domain has always been in place for development pertaining to improvements that would serve the entire public. ie: New roads, parks, etc. (Still, it's a bummer to lose your established home regardless of what it's for....) It's this private business availing that's too spooky & provides too much power to local goverments. Can't wait to see what Bush says and does about it, if anything . . .
Notice it's the 'liberal' minded judges who arbitrarily ok'd this??
Here's a thought Jerry Doyle made: If they can impress the greed of some city hall by seizing an area of homes to destroy and develope them for that increased revenue . . . every noticed how many non-taxed organizations are located on prime business property? "Hey you got an organization here that pays NO taxes...we'll take that property, develope it and create revenue where there was none..."
This gets more appealing to city and state governments as it goes along . . .hope it doesn't take years and years to pass something specific ag'in it.
Don't shut it down Steve . . .it's just gettin' interstin' again . . .
(no pea-brain, monkey-children throwin' feces lately anyway) . . .
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
PS:
Back on topic (although all these side-topiccs are all related and impact the main topic . . .)
To quote something Mike O`Neal said:
_________________________________________________ (Wal-Mart) Helps the community in that fewer people are shopping out of town, small specialty stores have actually seen an increase in sales. Hurting 2 grocery stores badly, sales down over 60%, but to be fair it's really nice to pay national pricing for frozen, canned and dry goods. Most businesses have adjusted, one business closed but she was failing anyway. _________________________________________________
See, I hate Wal-Mart too so I continue grocery shopping at my regular grocery stores. And my regular grocery stores did adjust somewhat in pricing and what they made available.
Every one had that choice to some degree. The consumer and the businesses.
The Food World that went out of business was failing before the SWM was even built.
meanwhile, how can a small town of 25,000 support 2 Winn Dixies, 1 medium size and least 3 smaller grocery stores? (not to mention a large curb market and a zillion minute shops etc?)
I reckon a lot of us hate Wal-mart 'round here.
To be honest, our SWM ain't doin' all that great anyway.
Have we been assuming that ALL SWM's are doing well???
Lots of people shopped Wal-Mart for a while 'til the newness wore off and went back to their smaller stores.
The impossible premis all along has been that Wal-Mart came in and MADE everyone shop there. They MADE other business's fail.
When as has been illustrated more than once in this thread...people shopped Wal-Mart because it was a store that had what they wanted and needed and they had only been unhappily 'making due' until they had such a place.
Consumers vote with WHAT they consume and where THEY choose to consume at. Posted by Rovelle W. Gratz (Member # 4404) on :
Some Relatives of My Wife had their property taken for a Walmart and Lowes.....now they are $6 1/2 Million dollars richer.
Poor folks, I guess they will have to suffer through it.
Castro is responsible for the economy in Cuba.
Carter was the double digit interest King.
I won't say anything about the Unions in the U. S.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Sheila,
With just a few changes in you statement, consider this...
quote: The impossible premis all along has been that FastSigns came in and MADE everyone shop there. They MADE other business's fail by devaluing the market..
When as has been illustrated more than once in this thread...people shopped Signarama because it was a store that had what they wanted and needed and they had only been unhappily 'hiring signcrafters' until they had such a place.
Food for thought, but not at Winn Dixie....they announced this week they are downsizing and closing locations across several states.
Somebody devalued the markets for them....guess who...
While the common gripe is how the little guy's shop closes, there are a lot of major league retailers, many whith a long history of good products and services heading for the chopping block. Rapid
PS: This topic started with "Is Wal-mart good for America?' Simple answer is...Wal-mart is good for WAL-MART.
[ June 25, 2005, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
WINN DIXIE is there own worst enemy, here they are the HIGHEST PRICED, they over extended them selfs with all new stores EVERYWHERE! they wont bring their prices to even match ALBERTSONS here...and PUBLIX is comin in to WINN-DIXIE areas....when i lived in sarasota(81-98)WINN DIXIE was the last place i would shop...
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Hey OP...I guess I was wrong about China...I thought there'd be a conflict in the next 30 years or so....I started my China boycott and campaign way too late. Hehehehe.
P.S. We needed some new steak knives....the old Taiwan ones are breaking and getting dull ... so did I go save .58 cents (Gavin???) at Walmart? Nope.
Just paid $180 for a set of six from "Cutco"....out of New York. Guaranteed sharp for life, and can send them in for free sharpening of the serrated blades if they ever DO get dull. Talk about heavy duty and a nice weight in the hand.
Bought them off a nice college kid selling them as a summer job....Ya gotta love the USA.
[ June 26, 2005, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I got some Cutco knives too. Got 'em from one of mt tenents. Got a pair of free sizzors for buying 3 knives. The demo showed how the sizzors can easily cut a penny! (not that I ever need to do that 0
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
thats for the 1/2 cent sales taxes....hehehehehe TODD GILL WITH A SHARP OBJECT!!!!! next he will be allowed matches......good goin todd glad your recover is going that well......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
OMIGOD... Doug Allan is running with scissors while cutting pennies in half!?!?!?!? It looks like he's chasing Todd Gill... I'm ducking out the back door.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Bruce... are you tripping again?
(hey, I did see you last fall!)
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Awright....you guys!
Doug...I saw the same demo...the scissors are really cool...they even come apart...but they wanted like $85 bucks for them....I already have a few pairs of Fisker's that work really nice.
OP's just mad cause he knows I'll be cutting *steak* with 'em...hnehehehehe.
Hey Bruce...you're from NY....where is this Cutco place anyway? You familiar with them? I'll tell ya what...that's some very nice, sturdy, heavy duty, quality stuff. You won't find that at Walmart that's for sure....(but if they sold it there I'd buy it from them...hehehehe)
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Sheesh, New York is a big place.
You can stop by for dinner, though. Bring Doug with you. We'' do some steaks up! M-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-goooooooood!
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
On the PBS program about Walmart, they also mentioned the US' trade deficit with China. Sounds scary but, read what this guy has to say. He is a professor of economics at George Mason University and one sharp dude. http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/05/deficit.html
Here are a few of the quotes I copied from his site which some might find interesting:
"No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. " -- Mark Twain (1866)
We still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping at the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised to furnish new pretenses for revenue and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without a tribute." -- Thomas Paine
"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry." --Thomas Jefferson
"One single object. . . [will merit] the endless gratitude of the society: that of restraining the judges from usurping legislation." -- Thomas Jefferson
...the opinion which gives to the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional and what not, not only for themselves in their own sphere of action but for the Legislature and Executive also in their spheres, would make the Judiciary a despotic branch." -- Thomas Jefferson How true is that today?
"No nation was ever ruined by trade, even seemingly the most disadvantageous." -- Benjamin Franklin
"As a man is said to have a right to his property, he may be equally said to have a property in his rights. Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties, or his possessions." -- James Madison
"The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If 'Thou shalt not covet' and 'Thou shalt not steal' were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free." -- John Adams
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. " -- Winston Churchill
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Wayne, great replies . . . .
For those of you who 'wush' we'd shut ********* and just get back on the topic of SIGNS . . . . . .Doug, I was wonderin' . . . if those scissors'll cut a penny they'll cut .063 aluminum all day right??
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
quote:"Let's all wake up. The post-Cold War peace is over," Mr. Fisher said. "We are now in an arms race with a new superpower whose goal is to contain and overtake the United States."
The above is from the pentagon, meanwhile WAL-MART alone contributed, what? 87 BILLION last year to the Chinese war machine?
spooky stuff
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
What topics of signs. Is this a signboard? Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote:. . .Doug, I was wonderin' . . . if those scissors'll cut a penny they'll cut .063 aluminum all day right??
hmmm... I don't know, they're Linda's kitchen sizzors... I'm not even allowed to cut pennys with them
[ June 27, 2005, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
. . . It's an orb dangling in an infinite space which happens to be populated with fallible people & corrupt governments, Barry . . .
~so...let's not get tunnel vision and give all the credit to one department store. . .
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Doug, don't feel bad about being banned from touching the wife's scissors....
My wife has banned me from using her kitchen towels for rubbing the dried wax off my cars and applying armor all to the dashboards....the nerve!
(gettin close to 200)
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
I used to have disappearing dish towels, til my husband discovered the bathroom hand towels-much more fluffy & absorbant!!!
I have used my own old sheets for a backdrop against overspray with my airbrush. Just bought some near-new ones at a yard sale this weekend.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
wow... where else can this topic go.. hmmm did someone say yardsales?
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
As amatter of fact I went to a yards.....
ah, never mind.... Posted by Mike O'Neill (Member # 470) on :
Plane crash kills son of Wal-Mart founder Last Updated Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:24:37 EDT CBC News One of the richest men in the world, John Walton, son of Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton, has died in a plane crash in Wyoming.
John Walton was named by Forbes Magazine in March as No. 11 on its list of the world's richest people. The magazine estimated Walton's wealth at $18.2 billion US. His brother Jim Walton's wealth was also listed at $18.2 billion.
John Walton (AP file photo) During the Vietman War Walton joined the U.S. Army Green Berets and served as a medic in Vietnam.
"He was awarded the Silver Star for saving the lives of several members of his unit while under intense enemy fire," said a statement on the company's web site announcing his death.
The 58-year-old executive and philanthropist was piloting an ultralight aircraft that crashed shortly after takeoff from the Jackson Hole Airport in Grand Teton National Park, killing him.
Walton had been a member of the board of Wal-Mart Stores Inc. since 1992, the same year his father died.
He is survived by his wife Christy and his son Luke.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Interesting that he served his country as a medic in Vietnam, and they describe him as a philanthorpist as well.
Sounds like he was "his own man" ... a brave man...and one who did care about helping the less fortunate. This doesn't sound very typical of someone who came into their money through inheritance.
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I still like shopping for food at my favourite grocery stores and produce stands. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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