....and is it worth the upgrade from e6. I like the white primer addition of e7.1, but don't know of the upgrade costs yet.
What can you tell me about this latest version?
Thanks all
Posted by Steve Racz (Member # 4376) on :
Chuck,
i have 7.0 and it costs $400 to go to 7.1 but you get choice of a free training CD or one other thing (can't remember).
I don't print so i'm not upgrading.
Plus i'm doing more of my design in Corel and just using signlab to cut vinyl.
Thanks, Steve
Posted by Robin Sharrard (Member # 388) on :
I just checked with Cadlink and they want $750.00 to upgrade from e6 to 7.1 Most of the upgrades seem to be directed at digital printing. They have a NEW modual now for screen printers that provides a means of producing color seperations (for an additional $900.00 above the upgrade fee). Although I passionatly dislike some of the quirks in Corel, I'm slowly converting all my Signlab files over to Corel. It already does a Great job of producing color seperations at a fraction of the price! I also have Cocut so I can cut vinyl right out of Corel or Adobe Illustrator. SignLab lost my loyalty with these rediculouse upgrade prices.
[ June 08, 2005, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: Robin Sharrard ]
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
They are about lose mine too. I spent 150.00 for tech support for one issue just to find out it was a glitch in their program and would be fixed in further updates.
Thanks Signlab!
[ June 08, 2005, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: Chuck Gallagher ]
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
Chuck, this could be resolved, I feel certain. Maybe even through this post, I think Cadlink checks in here, if I were you I would ask for a while of free support, if not my money back.
I got my upgrade yesterday. Along with the Training CD for it. Rob Ivers does great training, so even I don't have to dread the changes and the learning.
I do print to my Edge from SignLab. I look forward to the improvements, though it usually prints without a hitch, it is as I call it "LOSER friendly". The upgrade for me is from 7 to 7.1 - and I look forward to the inclusion of Eyecandy and other additions I am forgetting right now because I just hauled mulch for my yard for 4 backbreaking hours, but I digress....
How about if I report in a couple of weeks or so.
Posted by Hubert Furey (Member # 3951) on :
There are lots of features available to SignLab that Corel does not offer.
Here are just a few of the features you get with the SignLab Screen Printing module that are not available with Corel.
-Auto trap vectors and, between vectors and bitmaps. -Apply different halftones to individual objects i.e. a different halftone to gradients and bitmaps in same file. -View separations on pixel by pixel basis to QA your trapping, overprints, half tones, etc. -View separations against background color. -Set priming layer to prime solids under solids and also by tint under tinted fills within same image depending upon what the graphic elements are in the image. -Create blends from one spot color to another where intervening colors are duotones of the 2 original spots whereas Corel only creates process colors on the blends. -Create duotone colors. -Create multi-tone bitmaps from spot colors ( i.e. convert raster image into 1,2 3 or 4 spot colors). -Create swatches of spot colors using blends of 2 for all spot colors you have , at all % tints, for accurate color matching. -Print separations out on Windows printers or large format printers, not only to PS printers as needed by Corel. -Merge separation layers to reduce screens.
Even for medium production environments these features save hundreds of man hours in file preparation,reduce wastage by catching mistakes before they happen and eliminate the need for expensive printers to print the separations.
Posted by Hubert Furey (Member # 3951) on :
Chuck,
I have reviewed your incidents and am unable to locate the specific problem you refer to.
Can you let me know what was the specific issue which was the glitch?
Thanks
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
Had a problem 2 or 3 years ago with a then new 'puter and SL5. Win XP, Pentium 4, 2.4 chip, a gig of Ram. Worked fine for a while. Downloaded an update/revision, promptly lost "undo" function. Contact tech support---given three options---pay for a live tech (guarantee to fix-I don't know), upgrade to e6 at a fairly substantial $ amount, or 3 find the answer in knowledge base. Option 3 fine if I knew how to navigate knowledge base, which I didn't--at the time. Opted for e6 update, and put it on same 'puter. Didn't like e6, but struggled along until whole 'puter crashed.
Dug out from back of closet old P2, 450 MHz, Win 98 first edition, 384 Ram, computer which still had SL5 on it, and still worked fine. Been using it ever since for vinyl and layouts.
Much later, finally found answer to problem in knowledge base. No pressure to find it since old 'puter was functioning well. Problem had to do with RAM in excess of 512---workaround was to change minimum virtual memory setting to 100.
Here it comes---the really annoying part of this whole deal was the fact that the Win XP, P4, 1 Gb RAM puter worked fine UNTIL I downloaded the revision/update---then "undo" went south. And I am supposed to pay Cadlink tech support to fix a problem that wasn't there until I downloaded their revision? Thanx a lot.
I still like SL5, still hate, and won't use e6, and as far as tech support, not likely to ever use it in the future.
bill preston
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
ALL I know is that I have been using Signlab since Version THREE. When I bought it, they promised LIFETIME TECH SUPPORT. 5.0 said the same thing...I have 6, and now no support!!
I looked into changing to a USB dongle from a serial, and they want 125 BUCKS just to SWAP!!!
What is the length of time tech support will be free if I give em another 750 bucks PLUS the money for the dongle? NINETY DAYS.
Watta deal.
When have they improved their font collection? Or their clipart? They used to offer corporate logos , but they won't even do that anymore!
Yeah...gotta love it. They're really "improving" things.
[ June 10, 2005, 11:42 PM: Message edited by: Barry Branscum ]
Posted by Rich Pathemore (Member # 1789) on :
wow....... I was so close to buying Sign Lab.............. Think Ill be checking out other programs !
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
Hate to hear that...don't get me wrong...the program itself is GREAT...It is just that the execs at CADLINK seem to have something else in mind rather than benefiting their customers. ($$$$)
CADLINK: I know you're reading this! HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY TAKING AWAY "LIFETIME" TECH SUPPORT?
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
Don't let what I said throw you, Rich. Signlab is an excellent program, no matter what version. Barry is right though, in that their main focus seems to be on the almighty dollar, and less on support, which in my case involved a problem brought on by THEIR update/download.
On the hating e6---that only came about because I had a hard time adjusting to a different workspace, and tool icon(s) on the screen than what I was used to. I am sure that had I worked at it, I would have learned to like e6 as well as SL5. SL5 on this ancient 'puter seems to work just fine for what I need to do, so no plans to change, upgrade, or otherwise rock the boat.
As far as rants about vendors/tech support/ etc, I have another one (different vendor) just waiting to be vented. Stay tuned. Film at 11.
bill preston
Posted by Neil Riley (Member # 383) on :
I just upgraded to 7.1 a couple of weeks ago from e6.1. There are some useful additions, like image adjustments & filters, a new rip/print manager, PDF support and profile calibration. Overall I think the price is justified considering what's involved in producing an upgrade with additional features & add ons. Including Rob Ivers training video makes it a better deal.
I was hoping they had fixed up some of the annoyances in e6, but most of them are still present. I would love to be able to discuss these with someone at tech support. Also I have a problem getting a 3rd party printer profile to work, so I signed up for the offered 3 months support over a week ago, but haven't heard back from them yet....are you there Hubert?!
I love using Signlab, it's so easy & fast to produce vinyl & digital signs. And now even better with built in effects and automatic clipping etc. I think any other users should just bite the bullet and evolve with the latest version.
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
My dongle up and quit one day and that was another 150.00 or so for the USB (said it was more stable) to get it going! I like the program, but it sure would be nice to be treated as a customer who paid a couple grand for a program!
Posted by Jeff Spradling (Member # 1615) on :
This was copied from a post dated April 7, 2005.
Not to cause you anymore thoughts of grief...but just a...for what its worth...we wanted to add another computer to our setup the end of May 04...long story short...we were forced to upgrade from 5 to 7...cadlink told us we couldn’t get a second version of 5. Because we were guinea pigs with cadlink when 5 came out we were very adamant about whether or not 7 had all the “bugs” out of it...of course we were assured it was “very stable”
Well...after several problems including no less than five files that were created in 5 that wouldn’t cut right in 7 we went back to 5 and we were able to get two versions of 5 from cadlink...which is all we asked for in the beginning.
We paid for the up grade to 7...same red eye deal and even spent the I believe $250 for the “extra service plan”
We’ve been using 5 in both puters since June of 04...we have had a few small glitches but not near the grief we had with 7.
We would like to play with 7 again since we PAID for it but just don’t have time for the frustration right now...plus when we were having our initial problems with 7 we e-mailed all the (problem) files to signlab so they could see what was going on...with everything else (Avery) we’ve had going on we didn’t stay on top of this mess...about a month or so ago we e-mailed signlab to see if they had any answers for us...got an e-mail back telling us they don’t keep those e-mailed files we sent them this long...good thing we paid for the “extra better service plan” we can apparently shove up our ***!!!
I wish we had time to learn something different in terms of a program...don’t get me wrong from what I’ve seen of Corel and others I like many of the features of signlab better...I just HATE being a GUINEA PIG over and over again!!!
Good luck...I’m afraid you’re going to need it. Don’t know if I can be of any help but I would try.
Jeff
p.s. Hubert at signlab was very helpful with our initial 5 to 7 grief and got us going with 5 in both puters...but didn’t follow through when we sent the files to him.
This is part of the reason for my interest in a “computer meet” I very much so would like to see “professional designers” (not salespeople) show me how other programs out there work so I can better figure out what I want to use to take my computer designing to the next level.
Jeff Posted by E. Balch (Member # 3545) on :
If you are just cutting vinyl almost anything works well. If you have an Edge or wide format printer then Signlab 7.1 is great for printing.
I never understood the program until I got the e6 demo package that came with 2 Signlab University training CD's... Now I won't use anything else.
I really like the feature that lets me view the edge print pixels instead of printing to vinyl. That saves me a lot of vinyl and foil when I am trying something new.
I think the software vendors would save themselves a lot of grief and time if they included training videos with every package.
ernie.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
I guess I should balance out the negative here for fairness' sake, not that those who are dissatisfied are without merit.
I have always gotten a quick response to a phone call when I have had a problem with a follow up shipment of a cd with upgrade and fix.
The Edge printing module is invaluble, the best and easiest for printing yet. A lot of things I take for granted that are so easy such as drop shadows, outlines, and borders, that are a pain in Corel to recreate.
Bottom line: Great program with what I am seeing here needs to improve their support for those that support them.
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
It feels to me like Cadlink is feeling the wind blow toward Digital printing, and is moving that way, but without due respect/consideration for those of us that are LONG TIME USERS who still only cut vinyl.
It may be a couple years before I make the jump and buy a digital printer. I am selling more of it, but my local economy is slow to want to support it. I just did a pair of trucks that was about seven layers of vinyl, and a graduated fade. (lol Jill)
It took me a few hours to do these, and I know I could print 'em faster, but I just don't get enough jobs of this caliber to justify the payment, so I'll just have to wait it out.
In the meantime, the cad program I have used my entire professional career has gone back on its promise to support it's software for LIFE, and seems to be moving toward GREENER ($$$$) pastures, while alienating the base that came up with them.
[ June 12, 2005, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: Barry Branscum ]
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Barry...I can understand your frustration, but with this being the weekend, I don't think Hubert is going to respond immediately.
I know if I were wanting answers from someone who is obviously following the thread, I'd ask them tomorrow (Monday) and if no reply to your SPECIFIC questions was forthcoming, I'd e-mail the person directly (the e-mail addy is in his profile)
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
This isn't exactly the post I was going for, but if someone from Cadlink is following I would like to see another option on tech support.
If something happens I can't figure out as in "worked yesterday" then I have to get support. The last time it cost like 150.00 a year I think which is great if you're unfortunate enough to have that many problems, but if you call once a year that's a lot of money for one call, which is my case. I'd like to see a "block of time" purchased and used over any period would be helpful.
In the case of the dongle, "it worked yesterday" too. 150.00 for a "replacement" dongle to an existing customer of "their" equipment, doesn't build alot of loyalty. It's a chip on a board, what's that about five bucks?
I just felt both where high for what I received.
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
Still no response from Cadlink?
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
I've been a total rabid Signlab fan since version 2.2. I bought the "upgrade" to e6 about three years ago and uninstalled it when I found that they had completely screwed with the hot keys and went back to v5. I will NOT be "upgrading" and I certainly will NOT pay such an outrageous price for the software; it's like buying Adobe Photoshop every time. I think they need to listen up to what people are saying here. I've seen it too many times to count; a company makes a hit; grows and starts copping a prima-donna attitude and then, before you know it, they're history. Look at the top 20 on the Fortune 500 list from 20 years ago and name me three that are still there!
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Since I don't use any "signmaking" program I won't/can't make any comments about any of the products themselves...BUT...I have been following the thread to see what CadLink's response via Hubert might be to Barry's and Chuck's questions and concerns.
I actually did believe that since the thread is OBVIOUSLY being followed that some sort of response today would have been appropriate. Even if it were "I'll get back to you".
Maybe tomorrow? Or next week?? Or next year??? Maybe they really DON'T care.
Ya know what though?? The number of people who read this BB each day may seem like a lot but there are literally a hundred, if not a thousand times as many of unsuspecting, unknowing, unconnected virgin sheep out there just waiting to be fleeced!
Am I ever glad I tasted CadLink's "service" attitudes right at the beginning of my journey into this line of business.
THEY led me right into the welcoming arms of Corel Corp. and, at the time SignMax!
So I guess I SHOULD applaude CadLink for that...
[ June 13, 2005, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: Dave Grundy ]
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
It seems there is a growing sentiment of frustration/betrayal with some of Cadlink's policies. I am also surprised that they have not seen fit to reply.
I have talked via phone regarding some of these issues and one rep, a sales person actually agreed that what Cadlink was doing these days in terms of support was "not right".
Maybe hubert doesn't have an answer, or maybe the one he has is just one we wouldn't like.
they have helped me out in the past, after I had a ton of problems with five, and actually "gave" me the upgrade to six.
I am not really expecting that this go round...but as a long time user of the product I think that everyone takes issue with the tech support thing. If they want to implement some sort of pay as you go plan for new users, fine, as long as they grandfather in those they have made promises to, and offer the "option" to purchase the same level of support for the new guys too.
What's a good analogy? I can't think of one at the moment, but the bottom line is that all of us long time users entered into an agreement that promised support for life and now Cadlink has changed horses in mid stream, and as a result a growing number of us are refusing to pay the costs to upgrade.
Does that not matter? I think, ultimately it will. Letterville is the premier site of its kind in the world and as Ricky said no one knows how many (thousands?) might be reading this thread, and making decisions based on it.
I know that I won't buy anything till I have read some solid reviews from folk who are in the trenches working with the product every day.
I still love my program. I believe Signlab to be the best choice out there for what we do, and it really hacks me off that some suit that does not know this business is making decisions that may "improve the bottom line" in the short term, while stabbing them in the back in the not too distant future.
The question cadlink needs to ask themselves is this: Why are users like Ricky, myself and others refusing to pay to upgrade?
When they can answer that one, and solve it--THAT is what will improve their $$$$, 'cause without a loyal base what kind of stability can you really grow?
There's time for change gang. Time for Cadlink, and time for us. I actually just bought corel 12 with the real consideration of dropping signlab altogether. Can Cadlink take too much of that?
We'll see.
[ June 13, 2005, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: Barry Branscum ]
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
I never read Signlabs ULA.. but, does it really say lifetime support.??? OR is it,,, Lifetime support for the version you purchased? OR is it lifetime support as long as that version has its life and then end when the next version comes out?
I find it hard to beleive any states Attornies General would allow a company to give a warranty like that and then take it back.
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
I still have documentation around here somewhere that says "Free lifetime technical support"
As to the specific verbage of the EULA....well I'm sure there is ample "loophole-age" there. the point is, it was never an issue...I have been using this program since 1994-95, and only in the past YEAR has it been an issue.
I never upgraded to 4.95, I waited a couple years before I made the jump to 5.0, and never in all that time did they give me any trouble getting tech support.
Things ARE changing, and not for the better with their service and support. I think that much is obvious.
Posted by Neil Riley (Member # 383) on :
Sheeez, calm down guys. Your getting all worked up here over tech support, yet how many times do we need it? I've been using SL for over 10 years and have never even phoned my local distributor with a question.
It works - thats what we want, and if you have a problem you can check the knowledge base or RTFM.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Hubert is probally not responding because of an e-mail I send on Sunday night. I realize the interest you all have in their product, but it is not fair to allow Hubert to promote that product for free while others care enough about their Letterville users and pay to be Merchants. It's just business.
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
Well, then in that case I take back every bloody thing I said.
Sorry. I mistook this for a PUBLIC forum.
And yeah I know that'll get me slammed and flamed and rotiserieed, but Hubert didn't bring this thread up. How can responding to a public query be considered advertising? All he did was answer chuck's question.
Apologies to Cadlink...at least for my ill will toward them over this thread.
[ June 14, 2005, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Barry Branscum ]
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
For the most part, I agree with Barry. Issues like this have come up before---the brand name vinyl for instance.
Whether or not the company in question is a sponsor or not begs the question. A fair number of us have questions that should be answered, and to not allow Hubert or the company to respond here is not doing a service for the members of this forum/site, to say nothing of all the unknown number of visitors who may also be having problems.
I suppose we could try to go to their website looking for answers---but I suspect a credit card would be needed in order to get anywhere---other than the so-called knowlege base. If one doesn't know how to get around there---as was the case with me at the time---then one is stuck. Only alternative for me at the time was a fairly expensive upgrade.
bill preston
Posted by Steve Smith (Member # 3340) on :
If you are a small shop (1 workstation), I dont think I would upgrade.
If you are medium to large, I would seriously consider the upgrade. Besides the great digital printing tools (create you own media profiles, use photoshop plugins, etc), the new print manager is a huge help. You can have several design stations outputing to the print & cut manager and jobs stack up in the queue. You can then sort the queued jobs by job type, color, etc. Very slick.
You might want to take this post over to the 4edgetalk forum (www.4edgetalk.com). They encourge relationships between the company and its end users (especially cadlink and gerber). I am suprised that this place (lettertown)is silencing company reps from defending their product unless the pay a merchant fee... very dissappointing. The cadlink guys/gals seem to keep a very close eye on that forum and will go out of there way to help you out. You can probably even ask them to set up a online demo for you.
Posted by Robin Sharrard (Member # 388) on :
Couple of things to say, for better or worse... While the origional subject of this post has got lost to some degree...I don't think its fair to the Letterville Community not to allow a Mature discussion about the pros and cons of a product. Its informative to everyone. At the same time, its not fair to the Merchant, not to be able to respond to those concerns and to stand up for their product line. I can understand the requirment to govern blaitent attempts at promoting a product without provication and without paying for that advertisement, but when it comes to an issue, as was put forth in the origional exicution of this post, I think it should be a part of what this web site is about...Mature Information Exchange. While the reply from Cadlink seemed to be directed at my comment about the cost of the seperation modual, and quite impresive list of features, it did nothing to stimulate the origional subject mater. My experiance with Cadlink over the past 7 years has had its ups and downs, unfortunatly more down than up. I realy enjoy using SignLab when its working correctly. In m opinion, there is no other program that makes node editing more efficiant, but I agree with one of the comments here, that SignLab is becoming more aligned with the Digital Printing World and the small shops that just want a good sign program to do layout and vinyl cutting are paying a heavy price just to keep a current program. For example, the list of goodies that was provided by Cadlink about the seperation modual, as mentioned earlier, is inpresive but as a small screen printing shop, I don't need all the bells and whistles, just the basic seperation ability thats a standard part of other vector based programs such as Adobe Illustrator and Corel Draw, and I don't think that is an unreasonable observation.
I think the general consences, is that people want a product that is stable, everytime they call upon it to do the task it was designed to do, and that a basic level of support is availible at a resonable cost for a reasonable length of service.
Posted by Barb. Shortreed (Member # 1730) on :
I see this whole issue a bit differently than some of you. When a supplier offers you general information about a new version, they are advertising. We sell advertising to pay the bills. It is a fulltime job.
If you do a search under Cadlink, you will find 94 results. Type in Signlab and you will get 300! That's the maximum search results possible. We're more than willing to offer a few free samples, but there comes a point where you begin to feel used.
If we are wrong, you are going to have to include all our sign mags and trade shows in your complaints. Many of the mags may offer free subscriptions, but all charge well for using their circulation to advertise. Why should this be any different?
Nothing wrong with Chuck's original question. He wanted to know how his peers felt about a particular piece of software. If I am considering a purchase, I want to hear from a user that is in the same shoes as me.
If a product is getting negative comments, I'm not against allowing a rep that is a Non Merchant to defend the product. In this case we were given a sales pitch. Some call the product info, I call it advertising. I don't know of any fulltime business that would not.
You make beautiful signs Barry. I believe it is unfair that you charge money for such works of art. Next thing ya know we'll have Churches and hospitals asking for money.
Did you ever get the answer you were looking for Chuck? I apoligize for this discussion of economics.
Yikes! It's Steve on Barb's computor. Direct all hate mail my way.
[ June 14, 2005, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: Barb. Shortreed ]
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
I totally agree with you, Barry! I remember the day I found out my Life Time Warranty no longer existed. I was expecting a box truck in my driveway to be lettered, & I was near tears as i frantically tried to call Signlab. Finally, I emailed them REPEATEDLY asking them to PLEASE help me.... & one of the employees felt bad for me & called me & got me up & running again.
I have always wondered, "How did they get away with this???" A deal is a deal, right?
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
That's great question Bobbie. Cadlink is welcome to answer that here.
BTW...I'm not angry with Cadlink. We actually own two copies of their program ourselves. It's only human nature to try and save a buck. I just don't understand why they don't see the value of investing in a community like Letterville that is home to so many of it's users.
[ June 14, 2005, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
I dunno Steve--maybe our respective beeves with Cadlink are related....
You--their reluctance to invest bucks to promote their products here
Me & everyone else who have problems--Issues regarding tech support and their alienation of the little shops.
It all boils down to the same friggin thing....them being outta touch and outta tune with their base.
The 25,000 dollar question is: Is it apathy, or ignorance?
[ June 14, 2005, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: Barry Branscum ]
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
Because, Steve, there is a big difference in the mentality regarding what is important between the management "suits" and the troops in the trenches.
Management---bottom line, even if their point of view is short sighted. Worse yet is when management knows a decision is short sighted and does it anyway.
Troops in the trenches (lower level workers within the company)---a higher degree of caring about those of us that use the product.
Guess who wins, at least in the short term?
We've seen this before. Best example I can remember was One-Shot and Frank M. That man did more for that company IMLTHO than any six suits in management. It gets harder and harder to work up much sympathy for management types who repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot with some of their decisions.
bill preston
edited to add----I am not particularly angry with Cadlink---at least not now. At the time of the problem turning up I was---mostly because of what I perceived as a "take it or leave it" attitude. Sort of a pay-up or you're on your own deal. This attitude still seems to be the prevailing one.
[ June 14, 2005, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: Bill Preston ]
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
If I'm the only one to feel lost, I'll put on my dunce cap, but
Steve: surely you don't mean for Cadlink to monitor this board and answer the questions you say are OK for them to answer and then have other questions labeled as mercenary and therefore off limits?!?!?
That seems way too much to expect, because it feels inconsistent and parental. It also is not a friendly inducement for them to join us as merchants, and taken to it's ultimate logical conclusion it will cut us off from conversation with them altogether. Everybody loses.
If this board could have facilitated a conversation between us and Cadlink, one of our major suppliers of software, and had allowed a discussion of our perception of their support and policies, it could have been a very good service to us the Residents and others. Because as it unfolded, albeit choppily and with lots of jumping to conclusions, it became apparent that there is a crying need for that conversation.
I'm really sad this got short circuited.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
I have to agree with Bill Preston! This site gets over 11,000 hits a day...and the annual cost to become a Merchant is leass than some 'suit' at Cadlink, or other company, spends on coffee at Starbucks! A year's advertizing here is a fraction of the cost of a single issue full page ad in one of the trade magazines!!!
It is their deciion not to be here...so why should they have all the benefits?
Just my humble opinion!
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
And IMHO.
Steve is right the above post is an Advertizing post. It talks about features of some module over what another software offers. It did nothing to address the quesions and concerns of some loyal customers who paid a load of money and feel they are suffering a ripoff.
The way I read it is that Steve does not want advertizing with getting paid. Rightfully so. On the other hand I read it as Steve allows a company to address specific questions about a product as long as it is not cross over into an ad.
An added note. There is a marketing model where the belief is to charge a large fee for some product. That fee buys a powerfull committment from the customer and a degree of customer loyalty relavant to the pain suffered to get that product. Some companies return this commitment with great service and keep their word. Others take advantage and leave the customer frustrated. Sometimes caused by a bottom line, other times is caused by a cash flow problem. I wonder which in this case.
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
.....so does this mean Cadlink is not watching any more? Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
Probably chuck, that's exactly what it means.
Curtis,
If you look at Robin's post above Huberts...you can see that Corel is mentioned only in response to what Robin had to say.
I'll go you that it's a gray area, but the guy was responding to the queries of folks on the thread.
That said I'd hate it if EVERY merchant "advertised" as much as Roger Bailey! I like Roger just fine, I guess, but the main reason I like to pick at him is he pops up everywhere!
THREAD: I got warts on my MDO!! ROGER: Put some rapid tac on it quick!!
Now that's a joke, and I meant it as such...but you know what I mean. If this place turned into a freakin' marketplace where every lil thread had somebody who coughed up five hundred lousy bucks or whatever could holler all they wanted--well I don't think that'd be cool.
Now that hasn't happened and I don't think it will...but that leads us to another gray area: the fact that this is Steve's Profession these days, and he can run it however he sees fit, while on the other hand, a lot of its success is due to so many of us making it into a second home of sorts to--its personal to varying degrees.
So yeah, there is a level of frustration when personal and business scrape each other..and this is one of those moments.
I don't think you're gonna win them to merchant status with the "you can't talk till ya pony up" method...not my idea of a sales approach, but hey it's business--and Steve's at that.
Why not offer some of these big fish a trial 90 day membership or something...and promote them during that time...and if they benefit from the exposure, and want to buy in to a contract then hey, there ya go, and if not, what's the loss? A little bandwidth? OP will take it up anyway, talking about his bad construction projects and golden showers...(wink, wink, nudge, joe)
I dunno...I just find it frustrating.
[ June 14, 2005, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: Barry Branscum ]
Posted by Neil Riley (Member # 383) on :
Fortunately there are other sign forums that allow and welcome participation from vendors to answer questions and join in discussions. Most reps are aware of the boundaries, and know not to overstep the mark by blatant ramping or promoting. It's not all that often that you need to discuss specific topics (such as this original post). It's good to be able to go to a sign forum and post a software specific question, and know that you can get answers from users all round the world, and even from the developers themselves.
Unfortunately here, you get opinions from people who don't even use the product, and the people with the knowledge and willingness to share are silenced.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Of course they are watching Chuck! Everyone watches Letterville.
You have it backwards Neil. Ask a question here and you will hear from people using the tools in the real World. We're not here to sell anything other than Letterheads. Advertisers are welcome to take advantage of our huge traffic, but we are not sponsored by anyone. That means no conflict of interest.
Another plus. All Letterville users willingly use their real names. If you suspect the advice you are getting is false, it's simple to contact the people with the info. We even get together in person several times a year.
I'm tickled pink with Roger Bailey. Where else are you going to get the instant support he offers and free samples to boot? I wish all our Merchants took Letterville as serious as their other advertising media. I think it's too inexpensive. It takes real guts and belief in your product to meet your customers in a public forum like this.
Don't expect me to apoligize for the way Letterville functions. It's far from perfect, but I'm damn proud of it and our users.
[ June 16, 2005, 04:01 AM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote:Originally posted by Neil Riley: Fortunately there are other sign forums that allow and welcome participation from vendors to answer questions and join in discussions. Most reps are aware of the boundaries, and know not to overstep the mark by blatant ramping or promoting. It's not all that often that you need to discuss specific topics (such as this original post). It's good to be able to go to a sign forum and post a software specific question, and know that you can get answers from users all round the world, and even from the developers themselves.
Unfortunately here, you get opinions from people who don't even use the product, and the people with the knowledge and willingness to share are silenced.
..that's damn accurate IMO "you get opinions from people who don't even use the product, and the people with the knowledge and willingness to share are silenced." ...ain't backwards at all.. it's exactly what just happened.
I see the advertisment element going on too... but if "It takes real guts and belief in your product to meet your customers in a public forum like this" how can you invite prospective merchants to reply here & expect them to not let their "belief in their product" show through?
hmmm "Management---bottom line, even if their point of view is short sighted." gotta go with Bill on that one too
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