I've done lettering and logos on some Alaska tour boats (140 person capacity) and they now want vinyl stripes trimming the front and sides of the vessels. Because of the size of these boats I'm wondering what the easiest/quickest way to CUT striping is. We're talking about a 12" stripe in one color and an 8" stripe in another color. So from a 24" wide role I could cut it in half or 3rds. In the past, for very short stripes, 4" wide I have just unrolled the length of vinyl I needed, measured 4" along the side of the vinyl, drawn a straight line as I go, and then cut it with scissors along the line. The longest stripe I have ever done was only 6' long.
Also, how do you APPLY the stripes if they need to run, like, 60' continuously. Do you apply them in 6' sections and then just overlap the ends? If so, how do you keep them going straight (so that they LOOK like one continuous stripe?
Thank you for the help!
Jennifer
Posted by Santo (Member # 411) on :
Buy the widths you need and save the time and effort. You are trying do do the work if a slitter with a plotter, and that's not going to get you very far with long lengths. One slipp and you have already cut deeply into your profit margin.
Posted by Jennifer Craig (Member # 3411) on :
Hi Santo, As far as I know the colors I need only come in 15", 24" and 30" from Arlon, ( Need to match the colors of the lettering and logos that are already on the boats).
Is there a place to BUY other widths?
Thanks!
Jennifer
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Jennifer..for what you describe..and I have done this...get your supplier to pre mask the vinyl and then slit it to the widths you need.
If your supplier can't or won't do it..find one who will.
I am in Canada and could refer you to someone who will do this, but I am sure you can find one locally.
If not, e-mail me and I'll give you a contact.
Posted by Felix Marcano (Member # 1833) on :
I've found that hull striping is always a bear, especially on the boot stripes because of how the belly of the boat goes in and up. I would get your stripe custom made from gregory or sharpline, run a guide with fineline tape, doing each side as one piece & having them meet at the bow with a "cap". Edge seal the cap. As Dave said. Get it premasked. Email me if you need help. I do this from time to time. (I'm hoping to get this 150' cargo junker.
Posted by Jennifer Craig (Member # 3411) on :
Thank you Dave and Felix,
I will get right on the horn with my supplier and ask about the premasked vinyl. Also, when you get the premask'd vinyl in a 24" role then would you just cut it with scissors or Exacto into the 8 or 12" stripes? I am sure I will take you up on the offer for further help as soon as I know enough more about the job to ask intelligent questions.
Felix, This is a catamaran, (I don't know if I spelled that right?!), so the bow isn't too bad. I suppose if you hit a complex curve you just cut a slit and overlap it like a dart. Do you hinge the stripe at all, or do you just start it and remove the backing paper as you go, in one long strip. Hope you get that cargo junker!!
Thanks for the benefit of your experience! Jennifer
Posted by Janet Bakewell (Member # 725) on :
Jennifer - I've got several suppliers who will cut the vinyl to any width I want. If your supplier can't/won't do it - find another supplier.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Jenifer...Just like suppliers cut down 45" or 60" logs of vinyl into 15", 20" or 24" rolls they can also cut vinyl into whtever width you desire. They can also do this after premasking the vinyl for you.
[ May 26, 2005, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Dave Grundy ]
Posted by Michael Boone (Member # 308) on :
Gregory Inc 800-835-2221 ask for heavy application tapE
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Excuse my ignorance...but...wouldn't it be a lot easier and cheaper...to invest in a few rolls of making tape, some rollers, and paint those big fat stripes?
Masking tape follows curves much better than 12" vinyl!
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Si...I have to agree with you, especially on the boot stripes where the actual width, on a sailboat, can go from 4" wide at the bow to 24" wide under the tramsom.
But for cove stripes, vinyl is fine and for "some" power boat boot stripes it would be OK too.
BTW Jennifer, to answer your second part of your original post....
Apply the stripes in one continuous run!!!!!
what I do is measure where the stripes are to go, marking the hull with a china marker every 2 or 3 ft. I then lay down a stripe of 3/4" masking tape, using the marks as a guide. There WILL be slight wobbles in the masking tape but you can peel it up and correct to as straight a line as you can get.
When applying the masking tape, and the vinyl later, don't stand in front of what you are doing....put your head right up against the hull and sight down the surface as you apply the stripes. You will see slight wobbles MUCH better that way and even if there are some, they won't be visible to anyone looking at them in a normal manner.
Then I lay the vinyl stripe down using the masking tape stripe as a guide. When laying down the vinyl you will also be "straightening up" the line compared to the masking tape too.
[ May 26, 2005, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Dave Grundy ]
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
Hi, Jennifer,
I think Si is closer to a solution with paint than vinyl would ever be. The drawback is IMHO, that we don't have sufficient information to give good advice.
Catamaran---umm-- ok---twin hull with a deck or cabin(s) bridging the gap between. Info needed: stripe both sides of each hull? Hulls---are they painted, fiberglas, bare metal, wood? How large? I know---60 feet was mentioned.
If painted--especially metal---how badly chipped and/or patch painted? Vinyl isn't gonna like a rough, patch painted surface very much.
I think the main question has more to do with the hull(s) shape than almost anything else. Straight line shaped hulls aren't too bad to work with. Those with a lot of curve, 'specially at the stern with what I call tuck-under can be a whole 'nother ball of wax. See Dave G's remarks on marking below the transom.
And last but not least---in the water, or out?
bill preston
Posted by Felix Marcano (Member # 1833) on :
I agree. I would paint. But if you are going to vinyl it, what we do is tape the vinyl where it'll go, & stick like 6" at a time. Remember to use fineline tape instead of masking tape for the guideline. Are you doing the inside of the hulls as well? If you are then its definately worth getting a custom cut roll. Check out our latest catamaran job. http://www.puertoricosigns.com/changes_jan05/pict9.html \ BTW, I didn't pick out the spread eagle font...
[ May 27, 2005, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: Felix Marcano ]
Posted by Jennifer Craig (Member # 3411) on :
Beautiful Boat, Felix! What part of that is vinyl and what part paint? Also what's the advantage of fine-line tape over masking tape?.
Thanks Janet, Dave, Si, Felix, Bill, and Michael.
I'm still collecting information myself, so it's limited. It's an aluminum catamaran. It does have lots of chipped up paint, but they're talking about grinding it down pretty smooth before we do the work. Striping will go on the OUTSIDE of the hull only, and here and there on the passenger cabin, pilot house and transom.
It's in the water now and I'm guessing it will be on installation too. All striping is well above the water line though.
I'll definitely talk to them about the painting option. lf we did decide to paint it, what kind of paint is advisable on boat surfaces. I'd want to match the colors to the vinyl lettering and logos that I WILL be installing.
Thanks Again for all your help!
Jennifer
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
Hi, Jennifer,
A word of caution regarding painting on aluminum. If the boat owners grind off whatever paint is there clear down to bare metal, it puts you in a bit of a spot. Most paints that I know of won't stick to bare aluminum for any length of time, un less the metal is acid etched, either with vinegar or preferably, a primer with a built in acid etch.
Vinegar (acetic acid) does require a primer before painting. There may be other primers out there---the one I used to use was zinc chromate. Not even sure if that is available anymore, since OSHA got into the act.
From what you describe---the in-the-water angle, and the size of the boat, it doesn't sound like a job I'd be anxious to tackle.
But then, I'm older than God, and I'll use any excuse of infirmity to avoid the tougher jobs.
Edited to add--
On the question about what paint to use---you could probably use one-shot and brush. Bulletin colors will work at less expense than lettering enamels---the down side might be fade resistance, or lack of it. The better alternative would be an automotive finish. Down side there is it almost has to be sprayed. Same with chromate. Then you have masking, overspray to who knows where, all the while chasing the boat, either at dockside, or bobbing around in another boat.
I am convincing myself more and more to avoid this one.
[ May 27, 2005, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Bill Preston ]
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Jennifer...What I assumed would have been a fairly straightforward job, NOW sounds like it might turn into a total nightmare for you.
I am starting to feel the same as Bill about this project of yours. I have a 25 year background in vehicle painting and know the "shortcuts" and the "correct way" to do a job like this. And I would be having a VERY hard look at what I was dealing with before even commiting to this job.
Grinding down paint on an aluminum boat?
Who's gonna etch/prime/paint it after it has been "ground down to "smmoth"??
Do they know what they are doing?
The reason I ask is because if the folks who grind and repaint don't do it in the absolutely correct way then you could end up lifting paint when straightening up either masking tape or even fineline tape. If that happens, guess who will be blamed?
As far as the recommendation about fineline vs. masking tape...if painting, yes use fineline as the masking tape...If using vinyl stripes, masking tape is all you need as a guideline.
[ May 27, 2005, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Dave Grundy ]
Posted by Jennifer Craig (Member # 3411) on :
O.k. Bill and Dave,
You have given me a lot more good questions to ask this guy when I talk to him on Tuesday.
Thanks!
Jennifer
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
One other thought on this---I think you should insist that this boat be pulled out of the water, assuming you take on the job.
If the owner starts sniveling over the charge to pull it, then figure a PITA charge of at least double or more of the charge to pull, on top of whatever $ figure you all arrive at for the job. Inconvenience to you should have its price.
bill preston
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Having worked in boatyards many many years ago....I agree with what Dave and Bill are saying to you! This could easily turn out to be a nightmare!
[ May 27, 2005, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
In total agreement w/Bill and other like opinions on this one w/only a few differences relating to policy more than opinion.
I've been there, done that alot w/boats. Seen almost everyway possible on how not to do it. As my skills and stature grew over the years, I put a stop to almost all of those practices and adopted certain policies, that I don't deviate from, ever!!!
On this subject the first rule of order is, this boat WILL come out of the water at the owners expense or mine, which I will(gladly) add 20% to and pass on to customer.
Also, I'm gone for good at FIRST snivel, if that's the name of the game, I'm history, don't call anymore, will do you no good. It's over, finite...
Don't understand advice to use fineline over masking tape as a guide for vinyl. If used as mask for painted graphic, sure, it's leaves a nice, clean, fine edge, hence name, fineline. Masking tape leaves a very negligible irregular line that must be striped to hide, though it's not that obnoxious unstriped. But nothing tracks better than a roll of 3/4 masking tape for creating long, flowing curves, ie: boat sides. A little pressure on roll as you dole it out will ensure these results.
I'd also insist upon a signed liaibility release before I accepted a penny of their money or start the job; as alluded to by others, unless the person doing the "smoothn'" of the alum. knows his business, ANY tack tape will pull off CHUNKS of new paint as YOU unmask, either from paintn' or applying vinyl. End result, painter created a mess that has in past, put some painters in court at mercy of judges with no more clue than the person sueing you. Not a pretty picture, there again, this is all from been there, done that...a very costly mistake that could have been avoided by either educating your client beforehand or passing on job in beginning. Ah well, that's why they call it learning and experience, no substitute for it...
Posted by Jennifer Craig (Member # 3411) on :
Dave, Bill, Si, Frank,
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your taking the time to give me advice on this. I will tread very lightly and ask all of the questions you have suggested. Whatever we end up doing on this job, I won't be making many mistakes I might have made without your help.
My Sincere THANKS!
Jennifer
Posted by Felix Marcano (Member # 1833) on :
Hi again. Boat in the water. thick stripe. Paint chipped. NO. I would recommend you pass on the job.
About the spread eagle, the only thing in vinyl is the name. The rest is all paint. Fineline doesn't distort as masking tape does.
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Jennifer, On any long run, I would use UNMASKED vinyl. You will have to take care in laying it down, but you have more flexibility in the areas where the boat starts to curve. The masking will create more resistance, and will not allow the movement you will need. It takes a bit of control to prevent it from stretching too much, let out about 18-24" at a time. As you move along the length of the boat, just roll up the backing sheet instead of cutting it off. It will remain kinda stiff, and help to keep the vinyl rolling off smoothly. When that roll gets to large to handle, then cut it down.
When squeegeeing the vinyl stripe, do it as you go, DON'T just lay it lightly and then come back. Squeegee the stripe in an "Up and Down" motion, width-wise - DO NOT squeegee into the "length" or you will create bunch-ups and wrinkles.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Assuming the boat gets stripped and correctly painted and you are going to choose vinyl;
Well, 4 hands, 1 squeegee, 2 quarts Rapid tac and paper towels.
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