I'm going to climb WAY out on a limb here. I don't consider this to be a religious post although you are of course free to interpret it as you and your faith see fit. I respectfully ask you please to keep this post free of controversy.
The world is about to lose one of the great men of our generation. It is a sad day all over the world. No matter your religious views, it is impossible to not see the good that this man has accomplished. Our world will be a lesser place without him here on earth.
May his transition be peaceful and comfortable.
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
They are now reporting that he has in fact died.
Sleep well.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Amen to that Kimberly. Rest in Peace.
Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
He was a great man, Kimberly. Love....Jill
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
I would love to see this post survive too. Please talk about the man and his contributions. Any posts designed to ignite religious debate will be deleted. Please, let's not go there.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
I know one thing, Drudge and a few others shouldn't be so quick to be first. They are now saying he hasn't died yet as of 2pm Friday.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
CNN reported that it is not true yet..
[ April 01, 2005, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Curtis hammond ]
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
Just announced on MSN web page that John Paul 2nd has passed away.
The world IMHO is the poorer for his passing. An outstanding man.
bill preston
Posted by rene st-pierre (Member # 4116) on :
who know another pope stay in place more long time than j-p 2 an when he start be pope ?? whor remember ..........
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
Rene--John Paul 2nd was elected Pope about 1976--give or take a year. His predecessor was John Paul 1st who was only Pope a very short time--a matter of days or at most a few weeks. He died suddenly I think of a heart attack. Before him was Pope John 23rd. He held the Papacy --well--I don't remember for sure, but it was a lot of years. I think before John 23, it was Pius 12th. Don't remember when he was elected Pope, except that it was before the US' involvement in WW2. He came under a lot of political fire for allegedly--if not supporting Nazi Germany---then at least turning a blind eye to what was going on.
Not sure what that was all about, except that at the time Italy was part of the Axis powers, and since Vatican City is within Rome, there may have been some thought of preserving the Vatican. That last is pure guesswork on my part, though.
Steve---hope this doesn't fall under forbidden religious/political posts. Just the history as I recall it.
bill preston
Posted by Kevin Gaffney (Member # 4240) on :
A truly great man. Very fondly remembered here in Ireland especially for the papal visit in 1979. One third of our countries population turned up for his Mass in the Phoenix Park. One of the most memorable occassions in Irelands recent history
Posted by rene st-pierre (Member # 4116) on :
bill its in 1978 its a great man i dont know if another can made same job dead its bad ....life is life an each life end one day juste not happy day for people lose a great man c-ya
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Regardless of your faith or beliefs, a truly special man has passed this day.
Rapid
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
So, everyone is talking about what a great man he is, but no one is mentioning anything specific that he did??? Please, can some details come out ???
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
He played a crucial part in the Solidarity movement that ended the communist regime in Poland.
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
What I personally appreciated the most about Pope John Paul II was his ability to reach out to so many and express love with understanding. He put people at ease and he made himself very approachable.
Also, his respect for all faiths, and that he truly lived practicing tolerance with a passion for uniting all people He encouraged everyone to grow stronger in their personal faiths.
He will be a tough act to follow.
Nettie
[ April 02, 2005, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: Janette Balogh ]
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
This Pope had a special relationship with the young. I remember his last visit to Toronto a couple years back.
The scene was a giant Christian Youth function at an old air force base in Toronto. All the experts were saying the Pope was too frail and sick to attend, but he came anyway. To the youth of the World, this Man achieved rock star status. He loved them and they loved him back.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
It's widely accepted that John Paul II was regarded as one of the most significant figures of the last 100 years. The first non-Italian pope in 455 years, is papacy is the third longest in history.
He was by far the most well-traveled pontiff. Since becoming pope in 1978, he flew more than 700,000 miles, equivalent to more than 28 times round the world (or going to the moon 3 times... ) Trips to more than 120 countries and territories took more than a year-and-a-half of his time in office. Within months of his election, the pope went to Poland for a visit that some historians say helped end the Cold War. He gave his blessing to an underground labor movement called Solidarity. Despite being shot in May 1981, he continued to travel the world, including a 1993 visit to the man who had shot him to offer forgiveness.
The pope brought a strong focus on human rights and his travels gave him a global political impact unknown to previous popes.
This was also one of the most active Popes in history in other ways. He is by far the most documented, producing encyclicals, letters and books on a wide variety of topics. In 1994, his book, "Crossing the Threshold of Hope." became a best-seller and TIME magazine named him "Man of the Year"
Personally, I'll always remember his visit to Boston in 1979. Just out of high school and working at a tshirt shop, I spent several days printing shirts that read "POPE ADDS LIFE" (a play on the Coca Cola slogan of those days). There was an electricity in that visit, his first to America, that was contagious. He had a great appeal and energy, especially with young people.
How'd I do, Rick.... Rapid
Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
I respect John Paul II for breaking the Communist Bloc in Europe, which Winston Churchill called The Iron Curtain. As some Westerners had suspected, the "Workers Paradise" was an authoritarian fraud and ecological disaster. It might have fallen apart sooner, if the US had loaded the B-52s with Sears catalogs and dropped them behind the lines. But that didn't happen. An opportunity fell onto JPII, and he took it.
Posted by Zbigniew Grzemski (Member # 3203) on :
I live in Poland, and my english dont describe waste. Light candle. He was realy god man
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
...How can it be possible to "converse" in 23 languages?!!! (as they said he could on the news) ...He was one rockin' pope!
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
Bill, They explained the other day how and why he had learned each one...it was very interesting. He was born in Poland and thus learned Polish, Germany occupied Poland so he learned German, Latin from the seminary, He lived in Begium and thus learned French and Flemish, learned Dutch since it was so close to Flemish. Italian, Spanish, English, Russian among others.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
quote:He played a crucial part in the Solidarity movement that ended the communist regime in Poland.
How exactly did he do this? What actions in regards to this statement were a catalyst to ending communism in Poland?
Ray - What was the "would-be-assasin's" reaction to the Pope's visiting him and offering forgiveness? Did he accept it? What was the meeting like? Who was this assasin and why did he try to kill him in the first place? What was his motivation then, and what are his thoughts today about what he attempted?
This is very interesting....I like to hear the "rest-of-the-story" and the detailed story behind the headline's.
Thanks.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I found this in (partial) answer to one of my above questions....you may find this interesting:
By SUZAN FRASER
ANKARA, Turkey (AP) - Mehmet Ali Agca, the Turkish gunman who shot and seriously wounded Pope John Paul II, said from his Turkish prison cell Monday that he was joining in mourning the death of the pontiff.
The pope met with Agca in an Italian prison in 1983 and forgave him for the shooting. Agca was extradited to Turkey in 2000 after almost 20 years behind bars in Italy. He is serving a 17-year prison sentence in Istanbul for earlier crimes in Turkey.
"I participate in the mourning of my Christian Catholic people," Agca said in a written statement in Italian faxed to The Associated Press through his lawyers. He referred to the pope as "my spiritual brother" in the letter.
Agca has given conflicting reasons for his 1981 assassination attempt against the pope in St. Peter's Square and has sometimes suggested his actions were part of God's plan.
"The divine plan has come to its conclusion," Agca said in his handwritten letter.
Suspicions that the Turk acted on behalf of the former Soviet bloc, which feared that the Polish-born pope would help trigger anti-communist revolts, linger despite denials by former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev.
The pope has long said he believed the hand of the Virgin Mary deflected Agca's bullet.
In his rambling letter, Agca repeated claims that he is the Messiah, said he was writing "the true perfect bible," and signed off the letter: "Mehmet Ali Agca, the Messiah servant."
Agca is serving a 10-year prison sentence for the 1979 murder of a prominent Turkish newspaper editor and an additional seven years for commandeering a taxi and an Istanbul robbery.
Agca's attorneys claim he could be released from jail as early as this year because of recent changes to Turkish law, although it was unclear if authorities would agree to free him.
Posted by Steve Purcell (Member # 1140) on :
History will remember John Paul II as one of the great world and spiritual leaders of the 20th Century.
Our world is better for him having been here. If only that were true of all men.
I am not catholic, but I will miss this man.
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
quote: How exactly did he do this? What actions in regards to this statement were a catalyst to ending communism in Poland?
Todd, the following Chicago Tribune article might answer some of your questions. Gentle reminder: PLEASE keep this thread ON TOPIC and not let it denigrate into some political arguement.
I am not a catholic so forgive me if some of this sounds ignorant, I'm not trying to offend anyone, just asking honest questions here:
If the pope indeed is the successor of Saint Peter, how has he furthered that work, that was in its roots alltogether evangelistic?
Is the catholic church generally a more devoted, growing, renewed church after the twenty some years of this pope's reign?
These are the kinds of accomplishments I would like to hear about. Somehow it does not seem right to me to talk about a man at length without ever mentioning God if this man's work was to be a representative of God on earth.
Posted by Del Badry (Member # 114) on :
I am a Catholic and had left the church for over 15 years.. going back, the changes are all so apparent...
His reconicilation to the world is very apparent... he righted the wrongs in many ways... asking for forgiveness to the jews for the mistakes made during wwii and the holocaust...also with other churches... at one time to be catholic meant that all other churches were wrong, but now, thru him it is understood that all churches (prot & orthodox) are doing the work of the gospels... also seeing a picture of him with the Dhali Llama and other world religious leaders shows how he has reached out ..... Jesus only asked his followers to let there light shine and he has done that for sure...... his mission was not to convert the world, but to teach all of us to love and to accept all faiths in the world....
no matter what you think of Roman Catholicism the world would be a better place if all were like him... he's an excellent example of living a life like christ... the only commanments that christ gave us were to love god, ourselves and our neighbors...
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
quote:at one time to be catholic meant that all other churches were wrong, but now, thru him it is understood that all churches (prot & orthodox) are doing the work of the gospels
Thanks, Del, I think you're right on that and it is truly an accomplishment. That's the kind of thing I want to hear about him.
However, in this I believe you are completely wrong:
quote:his mission was not to convert the world, but to teach all of us to love and to accept all faiths in the world....
Jesus also commanded to go into all the world to preach the gospel, not to tell them that it does not matter what they believe. I don't even think that the pope himself would have agreed with you on that.
I'm sorry, I know this is not the place for debates but I had to point this out. Del, if you wan to discuss it let's take it to personal email.
Posted by Del Badry (Member # 114) on :
your absolutely right, lottie,, i'll be in touch..
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
quote:If the pope indeed is the successor of Saint Peter....
Aren't popes celibate? Wasn't Peter married?
Matthew 8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Thanks Kimberly,
And trust me...I ask for curiosity sake only....and if it did go astray, it would be a religious argument, not a political one.
If the same advice was followed in the "Top Ten Worst Attributes" thread and scores of other threads with innocent beginnings...we'd all be in great shape.
Thanks for the link....The pope's visit during the beginnings of solidarity seemed to invigorate the people and force the government to back down. Score one for the Pope and freedom.
This was educational....as was the intent of my question....thanks again.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Suggest you join Del and Lotti's e-mail discussion Wayne. Remember...talk about the Man, not the religion. When we start talking Bible stuff, some idiot will ask stuff like the following.
"I read in the Bible that Abraham tied his ass to a tree and walked 40 miles. I know that skin is really flexible, but is this really possible?"
Yikes! That was my question.
Posted by Del Badry (Member # 114) on :
The Catholic faith is based on scripture and tradition.. not sure exactly when but celibacy was brought into the church, but it was based on there understanding of paul;s teaching that it would be better to be single to serve god.... the church is close to 2,000 years old.... things are changing but all take time..... dont want to get to more involved with debate on this site.. but anyone who wants to feel free to email me...
my extended family on both sides are Roman Catholic, and by and large they are all good people who follow what theyve been taught on love and family......
Everyone has to go back to there family roots and learn the love that was taught them.....
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