I have to do a quick demo but have never dealt to much with gold leaf or with gold metallic paint. I'm trying to ID this pic and find out what it looks closer to. My other question is, does gold paint like 1shot and maybe others look like gold leaf? Does the paint hold up in outdoors? I'm doing a quick demo dimensional sign cut out of wood (MDF) that I need to prime and paint. The gold will be used in the v-carves & individual dimensional bevel faced lettering that will also be on the sign. Any help would be appreciated
Erik, IMHO the short answer is -no, the two don't compare. Someone once said that gold is gold, and paint ain't.
One shot gold paint tends to dry to a matte finish, clearing might brighten a bit, but it is still paint. Usually at least 2 coats are needed for decent coverage--adding a bit of penetrol helps flow and coverage.
HOK metallic gold might be a better bet, but I have no experience with it.
Durability with the One shot is questionable, and more so with the recent changes in lettering paint, regardless of color.
Hope this helps.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Gold is Gold... Paint ain't!!!!
2 points to consider:
1. MDF will not hold up outdoors, moisture will swell it and it falls apart. 2. gold paint is nowhere the same as real gold, and will not hold up outdoors.
If it is not going to be a real gold job, your best bet would be an automotive gold paint...otherwise, it will tarnish outdoors.
[ March 23, 2005, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
Posted by Boyd Merriman (Member # 5514) on :
As they put it, nothing compares to Gold Leaf, but if you never used Gold Leaf, you are in for a long frustrating job.
Using One-Shot: I usually put a base coat of One Shot Imitation Gold so I can have at least something solid to work on. Next, I letter it again with *at least* two coats of One-Shot Metalic Gold Lettering enamel. After that you can outline it (always improves the looks) and put a couple of coats of clear over it. Use clear that is designed for outdoor protection.
It won't last like the real stuff, but it gets by for a while.
Boyd
Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
The sign in your picture at Disneyland is real gold leaf and I've seen it yp close... many times.... there's NOTHING that compares to real gold.
-grampa dan
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
Call Percell's ....Letterhead Sign Supply
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Nothing compares to real gold leaf fer sure.
About Oneshot Metallic Gold _____________________________
~I posted about it a while back on here and got several good leads on a coupl'a possibley better metallic golds. (will find that post and e-mail it to ya)
~I was once told it actually has 'gold' dust in it. I dont know if that's true or not.
~My main problem with a the metallic gold is it's tendency to harden in the can once you open it and reuse it often. I'm pretty particular about not leaving the can open. I take out the amount I need and seal it up immediately (Also, keep the lid clean for a better seal)
~It dries pretty quick after lettering.
~You musy keep stirring it a lot to prevent the thick concentration of 'metallic' in the bottom of the can and the 'oil' on top which separate easily. If you keep the consistency consistent you can do one coat. In that respect it's somewhat tiresome.
~Experience: I have a gig with a welder guy who makes ornate mailbox posts with black metal boxes. Since 1993 I have been lettering mailboxes with oneshot metallic gold. He keeps his stock of boxes here and calls me when he gets mailbox orders. The people are crazy about getting these boxes and the address hand-lettered in gold script.
It seems I letter more and more each year. Just added up the number of boxes I did (just for him) for the year 2002-2003 and we did 96.
~Metallic gold begins to fade off theses black mailboxes which are always right out in the weather at the end of every driveway, after about 2 years, but sometimes hold up for about 4. What seems worse is the factory black mailbox goes flat and 'chalks' which contributes to the breakdown of the paint.
It seems like after the slight initial fading begins it sorta stays in that state without getting for worseanother year or two.
Ocassionally I get a call to come out and touch one up . . .the shady side usually obviously, will still looks pretty good even after 3 years.
~The more you can get by with out thinning the paint...the better.
~To find out for yourself, order a 1/2 pint and paint with it on a few different colors and leave it in the sun for a while and see how it changes against different colours. (Black draws a lot of heat while lighter colours tend to reflect)
Hope this helps.
(Why is it I never see anything spelled wrong 'til after the reply is posted . . .
[ March 24, 2005, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: Sheila Ferrell ]
Posted by Brad Ferguson (Member # 33) on :
Gold metallic paints may have metal in them, but it's bronze or aluminum or some such. I think polyester is also used, but I'm talking off the top of my head. The automotives, of course, have a tough clear to protect them. I have heard stories of "gold dust" used in paint, but never actually seen the critter. I would expect it to cost more than a few bucks for a half pint.
Gold is gold & paint ain't: Long-standing orthodoxy, yet a truism. I seem to recall from jewelry-making class that no naturally-occurring chemical causes pure gold to tarnish. Isn't it amazing that we haven't run out of it yet?
Sheila: There is a reason why misspells are not noticed till you are in print. You did not make them. They are occurring in the atmosphere, or rather ethersphere, after you send. As bizarre as it sounds, I have correctly spelled words numerous times only to see them wrong when I review them after sending. Not that I'm seeing conspiracy-theory stuff, or even dark forces at work, just some kind of replication glitch. The problem is well-known in theory, though I forget the exact Startrek episode.
Brad in Kansas City
Posted by Erik Gastelum (Member # 5341) on :
Thanks for your input all Guess I'll stick with Gold Leaf. Any suggestions to this gold leaf virgin?
I have a booklet on order, does it come with an adhesive on the back or do I need to use somthing? Do I coat something over it too?
Electric signs seem so much easier
Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
Better order the book too (Gold Leafing Techniques) and get a book of dutch gold to practice with first. You first apply a gold size (like varnish), Exactly where you want the gold to be, wait for it to be almost dry, and apply the leaf. If you can't mask the area you need to apply something to keep the gold from sticking to the rest of the sign (I use an egg white/water mix). Unless it's a vehicle or boat no clear is needed.
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
Erik, There are all kinds of books available that "teach" gilding. They only give the method---experience does the rest.
As far as the actual doing---you put on a gold size---fast or slow type, and wait for it to tack up. It has to be almost dead dry, a knuckle on it should not show any color. Size is clear usually--add a bit of color so you can see what you are doing.
You do NOT cut the letters out of gold leaf. Too thin, too fragile. It comes in several forms---patent lightly adhered to a tissue paper, or loose which is also on tissue, but not adhered to it. There is also ribbon gold- this is various widths, and on a tissue roll 67 feet long.
Size your letters---or whatever---wait for tack, and apply the gild. Where the size is, it will stick. The excess breaks off, and usually sticks somewhere else that you would rather it didn't. As far as estimating how much you would need for a job---well---estimate as best you can, then double it. My favorite brand is Manetti 23k patent.
For outdoor use, avoid variegated, or "Dutch" gold. This is an alloy, and will tarnish unless cleared. It may tarnish anyway.
Clearing is a subject all its own. Will leave that to others.
Hope this helps.
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
You didn't say which book, but Bill learned to gold leaf from a book 25+ years ago. There was no Letterhead site or meets that we knew of back then and no one to ask. He just figured it out, trial & error, with the book. He used the LaBlanc book and it is all tattered and torn now. He's taught me and one of our boys how to do it. I wouldn't call goldleaf frustrating, but it is sort of scary "practicing" with something worth lots of $. The dutch gold sound like a good idea. Do a test panel for yourself just to try it out. I did some glass gold leafing a few years ago and I thought that was much harder than doing it on a surface application. If you can, get to a meet soon that offers it as a class or seminar and try it with friends. You will learn a bunch and get lots of tips and trick along with your hands-on experience. Are there any Letterheads in your area? You could get together and teach each other (with the book) or contact someone that could offer a class in your area!
Posted by Brad Ferguson (Member # 33) on :
Erik, When I first started laying surface gold I found a German patent gold that works beautifully. It's heavier and practically falls off the rouge paper. I love it. When patent gold doesn't want to release, it drives me nuts. If you want to know where to get it, email me.
Brad in Kansas City
Posted by Sonny Franks (Member # 588) on :
If you want to paint it, the best gold paint I've used is Ronan Aqua-Leaf. Holds up outdoors too.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
I forgot to mention Erik, but I'm pretty sure the gold in the picture link is paint or more likely formed plastic (like the Gemini letters) because if something gets broke or damaged they can re-order, re-make and replace easily. Most these places even have their own vaccum molds and do their own sign maintenance.
Not only because I don't think the theme park would spend the bucks for this to be real gold, but mainly because it has that same 'flat' or 'duller' look than real gold. There are gold 'metallic'-look plastics and auto paints as well that would look like your pic.
PS: I'm sure a helpful 'head can post some links to real gold leaf work that would help you see the difference instantly.
[ March 24, 2005, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Sheila Ferrell ]
Posted by Ron Costa (Member # 3366) on :
If it has to be gold paint, I use one Shot Metallic Brass and sometimes clearcoat. or....Spray a quality automotine urethane. just my two scents...
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Has anyone used a product called "Matthews". It's a gold paint I guess. I saw it on a job, and thought it looked real good.
I'm interested in knowing more about it, but have not made the time to investigate it.
If anyone here knows anything about it, I'm listening.
Nettie
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
Janette,Matthews is the same as using an automotive urethane,its PPG relabeled and sold to the sign industry,nothing special,only advantage in a way is they list in their formula database PMS matches,but matching them to ink is gonna be iffy....the gold loos pretty good,in fact when the Taj Mahal casino was built years back they used dupont imron on the domes which would be an equivalent. To really get a passable uniform gold look with it you have to spray it. They sell a really good brushing additive for urethanes,but even with alotta practice the metallic is extremely hard to control and not streak brushing or rolling,the properties are different than one shot or latex etc. Dollarwise you're probably better off going for a less expensive brand,the quality will be the same and you wont have the privelege of paying more because it says sign industry on the label. It turns up somewhere on PPG's coroporate page i just dont remember where. There is one out called Luminore that you would be hard pressed to tell was not real gold until you're virtually up on it,but i believe now you have to buy their whole spray system or something like that.
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Electric signs seem so much easier