This is a branch off the "do you have a partner" post. I'm trying to work towards training my part-time employee to take some of the workload off my shoulders. I'm just having trouble getting the training worked in, and the need to have everything "my way"...(I am the boss though, right???? )
Does anybody have a list of expectations they have for their employees? If you have a great employee, what do they do and how did you get them to that point?
Thanks, Suelynn
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
First you buy a leather whip-beat them till they say uncle Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Over the years I have tried to train several employees. Some seemed to fall into the routine naturally and some never seemed to get it.
My first step is to let them know what I expect of them - both in terms of the actual job and also their attitude. Mainly, that I expect them to listen to what I tell them and not to be afraid to ask questions. I would rather that they ask me what might seem to be a dumb question than to mess up the job.
I remind them that I don't expect them to be very fast or to remember everything - just to do their best and to keep in mind that we are working as a team. It's dificult not to fall into the trap of expecting them to do everything like I do it, especially after all the years that I've been at it. Nevertheless, I find that some employees can do some things better than me or more efficiently than me.
If the employee is apt at working with thier hands I will often tell them what the end result needs to look like and then see if they can find a way to get there.
Communication is the key to any relationship, and especially to having employees. I try to keep them posted on what is going on and when something needs to be completed. In turn, I expect them to let me know when there is a problem and if there are any questions.
Usually, I try not to peer over their shoulders every minute - that is not good use of my time. At first I will go over a procedure and then let them make a stab at it, offer suggestions, and then walk away. They are nervous enough having me around without me constantly correcting. I will even let them make a mistake (on minor things) to let them discover for themselves what went wrong.
Some just don't make the grade. I had one employee for several years that could never figure out how to read a architect's scale or even a level. Some folks are more detailed oriented than others. I'm looking for the ones who are.
Of course, the optimum is to find someone interested in the business rather than just getting a pay check. They are few and far between but it is very nice to work with someone who wants to learn. I've had a few, but not many.
Luckily, I now have one employee who fits the bill. He gives attention to details, takes pride in a job well done, and picks up after himself (and me), and offers suggestions for improvements to the business. He also happens to be my son.
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
my main employee, T.J. is a rarity. He has a key to everything I own except my house, and i'd give him that too, if there was a reason.
He handles a lot of the production aspects of what we do:
Cutting and routing panels Painting boards Construction Installation Screenprinting(but he doesn't like to) He handles a goodish portion of the vinyl work that comes in, too.
Pretty much, other than the computer, he can do I'd say 70% of what I can do around the shop.
He is the most successful employee we've had, and I am sad to say we are losing him at the end of May, when he takes off to pursue a career in another field.
As to getting him to that level of capability, I am sorry to say it begins with willingness and ability on the part of the employee. For the most part, either they got it, or they don't.
THat, coupled with just slowly ratcheting up what you put on them, using gradually increasing levels of difficulty is how ya get there.
The first step is putting them on a new task. Some are gonna surprise, and some may disappoint.
Take it slow, and amp up your expectations.
GOOD LUCK!
[ March 18, 2005, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Barry Branscum ]
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
I think this is a very smart post Suelynn, and very astute of you to ask. Unfortunately I can't reply right now but I'm marking this thread and will get back to it later. It'll be interesting to see what others have to say.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Since I really didn't answer your question, I'll give it another try.
New employees are usally expected to:
- weed and tape up vinyl. - coat out MDO. - usual pick up and cleaning. - help with installations (even post holes) - painting background and trim on dimensional. - applying vinyl from scale drawing
With experience the tasks go to:
- applying surface gold leaf. - cutting panels to shape from pattern. - sandblasting HDU. - glueing up panels. - cutting letters with scroll saw. - simple construction. - on site application of vinyl and panels. - scheduling the work flow of the shop.
Eventually, I would expect an employee to take a work order and see it through to completion with the exception of doing the design and cutting whatever vinyl is necessary.
I would take care of customer relations, designing and pricing, cutting whatever vinyl is needed, making patterns, etc., helping with needed installations, and billing. I also do any hand lettering or pictorial work or details that Mike (my son) doesn't feel that he can accomplish.
Right now I feel we are in the best position that we could possibly be, with the expection of someone doing my job, but me still getting a paycheck.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
quote:Originally posted by Barry Branscum: As to getting him to that level of capability, I am sorry to say it begins with willingness and ability on the part of the employee. For the most part, either they got it, or they don't.
Actually, it starts with willingness and capability on the part of the OWNER to loosen their grip a little, put some trust into someone else for a change, and learn how to cope when things aren't always perfect.
Think about it. We all, as owners, screw up every once in a while but we all somehow manage to deal with it and get the work done. Obviously, the world is not going to come to an end because of our mistakes, it's not going to end because of an employee's either.
Everyone has their strengths. If an employee isn't so strong at a certain task, they need to be assigned a different task, something they might excel in. Your job as an employer is to identify who has what weaknesses or strengths, and exploit it.
What does it say to an employee when the only tasks you will *TRUST* them with include weeding vinyl (a job you hate so much you pawn it off on someone else.. hmmmm), sweeping floors (another hmmmmmm) and cleaning toilets (um, cleaning someone *else's* toilet? beyond disgusting)?
It says "I don't trust you with the real work so you are stuck with the menial crap I don't want to bother doing." Gee, that's inspirational.
You need to take a chance. So what if they can't weed vinyl well? Maybe they hate it as much as YOU do and they have no incentive to excel at it?
Maybe weeding isn't their forte' but they might be really good with something else?
You never know until you give that chance.
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
How many employees do you have again, Mike?
Posted by Gary Hove (Member # 4970) on :
I like to start new people, with no experiance, on prep work; sanding scraping, and getting a pannel ready for paint. Work with them to help build up their skills and go up from there. As far as a Partner, which I had for 6years. I did expect them to have a certain amount of time in the feild and a level of competency. As partner/employee he handled jobs from work order to completion. As Head I handled all clients budgets and billing, as well as direction of all designs and jobs from order to completion. I found it great to have someone that I could count on to handle things when I was absent from work that cared enough about where he worked to treat it as his own. The same story as Barry, he left too search for a path of his own.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Barry,
Just to be clear here, do I need to get your approval on the number of employees I have or not have, before I can offer any advice on this subject?
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
No Bob, as we discussed, I was going to pass the pertinent data on to YOU.
YOu are clearly the one qualified here to make judgement calls.
My question to Mike, a legitimate one, was frankly an attempt to determine how much experience Mike may have with that type of thing.
It sounded to me like he was writing more from an employees perspective, rather than an employers.
That said, does my reply pass your approval Bob, or should I edit something?
Perhaps I should give you my password so you could do it for me?
Dang it! I am done with the stupid bickering. Are we (am I) to the point that NOTHING can be discussed or debated around here?
Memo to the management: schedule my lobotomy, I keep having opinions!
[ March 18, 2005, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: Barry Branscum ]
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Barry, 0.
I'm only speaking from past management experience though, when I worked in a busy restaurant that maintained a staff of 100 employees, keeping 20-30 of them on the clock at any given time, and being responsible for their training.
You only get out what you put in.
If you don't put serious time into training an employee you can't expect much out of them. Furthermore if you get frustrated that an employee is taking too long or not doing something right so you shove them to the side and do it yourself, you're depriving them of learning.
When it comes to the entry level job market, employees have the upper hand. Entry level jobs are a dime a dozen, people you like enough to work with all day are harder to find.
As crappy as working in a McD's is at the beginning, even they have lots of room for advancement up in to the corporate $$$$$ ranks. Anyone can start working at McD's and if they take advantage of the resources McD's will offer, they can go from minimum wage to $60k/year in 5-7 years.
Gotta wave some cheese in front of the rat, people. Otherwise the rat just sits there in his own pee.
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
so barry....does your question to mike have any positive input to this thread?...are you saying because you have an employee(half way out the door)that you are more qualified to answer suelynn's question better than mike or bob?...or is it because he doesn't 100% agree with you and has another view that you feel the need to ask him..."how many employees do you have again, mike???" back pedal all you want, i don't buy your legitimate question crap...you are just trying to ridicule someone in your typical condescending manner.
i seem to see your name coming up alot lately...either someones art looks like a urinal, or you feel the need to comment on a for sale item(wtf), or your whining about deleted posts, then there's the you & dan bandwagon...and this morning you were debating with dana how we are all little ants and steve is the king of the ant hill....twisted analogy but hey you're entitle to your opinion. personally, your skewed perspective of how this board should be run is starting to make my ass itch....if ya don't like it...leave.
suelynn is my friend & this is a great thread so i am following it....and there you are again...your first post was ok...but the second & third post...way uncool.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
I'm an employee as well as the manager. One of my tasks of what I do is answer the phone and insure the customer that he will be taken care of and that their work will be on time. I make appointments, keep track of all work and make sure that the other workers are working. This is a full service business on a main street with customers and phone calls all day long. Jeff Crank handles all the painted work while his one son handles all the vinyl and his second son screens t-shirts. I not only manage but pinstripe as well. This shop does everything sign related including carved signage and also designing custom paint on vehicles, flames, graphics, pinstriping, airbrushing and whatever else anyone asks for. I'm the bulldog so to speak, making sure everything goes well and in order to make an appointment, it must go through me. I love this job and like working in a clean enviroment which is hard when work continues from 8am till closing which can be 9pm at certain times. Keeping customers out of the work area can be a job in itself as everyone wants to have the king speak with them, only to complain why the work isn't done in their time-frame, duhh! Did I miss something?
Posted by Jeff Poitevint (Member # 4740) on :
Karyn,
You go girl.
Suelynn,
I've managed employees for 20 years, but lack the patience to properly train them. I've always depended on my employees to train the newcomers. When I hired my first employee, I had to train them like my children and let them know they are responsible for the next employee coming in. That, not only empowers them, but gives them a purpose and responsibility. It has worked well and it's an ongoing project, but it frees you up to manage your business.
I've found the best employees from local high school art departments.
Posted by Suelynn Sedor (Member # 442) on :
No kidding Karyn!! What is going on here? Is it rutting time at the zoo???
Joey, it sounds like you've made a great move. I'm happy for you.
Jeff and others, I'd like to hear more about specific jobs you trust your employees with, and what you expect from new employees. I'm interested in motivation and encouragement to take the initiative to work harder and smarter.
Thanks to those of you who took the time to answer, I appreciate it!!
The rest of you roosters, put your peckers back in your pants!!
Suelynn
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
Ok, I'm back... I have zero employees right now too, but I do have a partner and sometimes wish for the old days when I've had up to 6 employees at once. Based on my current situation - 2 man, very custom oriented, high end shop - it would take TWO or more employees to replace my single partner, and I've got some pretty clear ideas what I would have them do.
First of all, I fully agree Suelynn that you MUST have things 'your way' as far as the quality that goes out the door and having whatever shop policies you dictate followed. This isn't a marriage or a democracy. Your employee never has to dig into their own pocket to make up for their mistakes or bad PR or lost clients resulting from their inexperience or lapse of judgement - you do. The one who pays says.
Speaking of 'your way', I think one of Mike's points was to allow people the freedom to explore and work out their own methods of getting a task accomplished in the way that's most efficient for them. Well, ok sorta but AFTER they've reached their maximum possible proficiency doing it my way. Then improvement is always welcome!
One thing that helps a lot is a clearly spelled out JOB DESCRIPTION for each person to avoid confusion about who does what, including the boss. There's the menial tasks...Who scrubs the toilet and how often? Who sweeps and empties trash and who puts away the tools? It's whoever is making the least money for the company at that moment. Some days that can be the boss. Most days it's the lowest paid person. The rest of the shop jobs can be broken down into Managerial (selling, designing, quoting, bookkeeping, client contact, scheduling, purchasing, etc.) or Production (pattern & vinyl cutting, panel prep, weeding, assembly, shipping, installations etc). Just going through the process of listing all the individual tasks that have to be accomplished in your shop would be a great start on forging a comprehensive JOB DESCRIPTION for each individual.
One thing that used to work very well for me was having a 10 minute production meeting each morning to go over each job in production that day. Oh, I forgot to mention, a clearly written out WORK ORDER for each separate job in production is imperative to my way of managing a shop (and I mean REALLY clear, a full description with any color chips or art references attached). I am very, very visual - I couldn't get anything done without that written paper, much less expect someone else to remember every detail the job entailed.
In my perfect shop I would be in charge of all things managerial, including all designing, sales, client communications, scheduling, quoting, collections and purchasing (and hire an outside bookkeeper which we do now anyway) - and I'd have my employees responsible for everything related to production, installations, shipping and shop upkeep/maintenance. That's right, if I had my way I wouldn't lift a tool or paintbrush at all, and my workers would be highly skilled and handsomely paid. But you can be damn sure I'd be right there to inspect every dot before it goes out the door. Now if only I lived in Perfect...
Posted by Stevo Chartrand (Member # 2094) on :
I LIKE WHAT KARYN SAID!!
Steeeeeevooo
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I have had my step daughter helping out 15 - 20 hrs/wk for about 8 months now. She is not as comfortable with an architects scale as I would like & does not do math in her head as easily as I would like, but she started out weeding & began applying vinyl to signs I would tape up the vinyl on, then worked with me on taping up the vinyl off scale drawings (& I always show her what I am doing & why... even if I don't know for sure that she will ever progress to being assigned a specific task herself.)
She later began laying out the vinyl on banners by herself, & would have me check the placement of things before sticking anything down. Soon I was confident that she could work off a scale drawing & complete banners on her own. (other vinyl signs as well)
She has learned to output jobs to the plotter, & has spent many hours running the edge as well. I have begun showing her how to layout basic signs, & although I don't expect her to become a "designer" someday... she may well get an increasing number of layout assignments as there is a somewhat steady supply of simple layouts required. Setting up multi-color edge printing jobs is another area that she may never take on... but when I need 500 of these decals, 250 of those... & a few pairs of full color magnets from a few different files... I can go away for 8 hours & she can get everything done.. so compared to the days of me staying at the office till all hours to get a huge stack of vinyl cut because weeding was all she could do... she has come a long way.
...oh yeah, she will also pay the bills for me. I had her reconcile the check register against the bank statement once... & that was too important & unfamiliar & we were both nervous about that one when I checked her work & found too many errors that could leave me not knowing how much money I had in the bank, so only I will do that now, but she can pay the bills, & is starting to learn to write up invoices. I have begun to teach her to fax stuff from the computer (yeah, that's pretty basic, but she had no computer skills a year ago, so I'm dishing out the tasks a little at a time, but it's great that every week there are more things I can ask her help on.) She has went out on installs herself 3 or 4 times & I've found I can cut some simple door or window graphics 2 times when we only need one... then she can drive 20 minutes to a job & if she makes a mistake, she has an extra letter... or an entire extra set & the job gets done. If she didn't need the extra set... well it was worth the couple bucks to cut & weed it if it could have saved time to load up, come back, etc. etc... plus I think it gave her extra confidence the first few times.
Last week I had 20 scans to do, & then each one had to be vectorized in another program, then exported to a third program, where several were 2 parts of one oversized image & they had to be re-assembled... this was all new to her, but also all pretty easy to teach & she did great. When I had to find 25 logos for a client I taught her to find & download about half of them in vector format from the logo websites out there, & the other half from google which I will be able to digitise myself later... but so many tasks like this are the things that create a bottleneck in my workflow... because I almost never get enough "important" stuff done, to feel like i can afford to do jobs like that. It is so great to be able to have someone else do it even if I have to show her first. When there is a lot to do... & it is easy to teach... that is a great time to add a new skill for you're employee!
Our office is pretty small, so she hears me "selling" on the phone as well as in person. I don't think she will be doing much quoting of prices... but some days I feel like I can't get any real work done because I can't get 30 minutes in a row without interruption... so it has always been my hope that I could "hide out" doing design work, while she could deal with the customers who stop in, or call & ensure them that, in most cases, we CAN do whatever they want, & to get all the info required, & offer to have me return a call with prices, or answers to any questions left unanswered. I haven't ever had her do this when I'm actuall there, but she has been the only one in the office on a number of ocassions & has begun getting this experience.
In her case, I am happy to have family working for me, because I feel I can count on loyalty from her. She does not expect to make this a career choice for life, & at this time does not even look forward to becoming a full time employee... but I know she won't steal, she won't leave me hanging with no warning someday, she won't go work for the competition, & she won't harbor resentment about our working relationship. We've developed our friendship over the 9 years since I met her mom, & regardless of how the future of working together plays out, we value that friendship or mutual respect. I pay her more then I would pay someone else of the same skill... but I feel that the loyalty described above is worth that extra expense.
I mentioned in the "partners" thread that I had a job applicant the other day with 3 years signshop experience. I think I've typed enough for now, but I will be thinking a lot about the division of labor question & the training question... so I will be watching this post, & may have to chime in again about how I plan to make use of another helper.
Posted by Suelynn Sedor (Member # 442) on :
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