Reckon this place should be renamed "Tech heads" or "Puterheads" or "Stickaheads" Seems a long way from the original "letterheads" now somehow.
It's okay folks, I'm just pickin a fight coz the game I used to love so much has been sold out n I just dont want to get used to it. i simply dont like it all that much any more.
any one else share my point of view Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Nope.
Posted by Dale Kerr (Member # 4661) on :
Yep, Still have nice collection of mack brushes and leonardy fitches... Don't know how to use them real well but I am still trying.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Rob, Altho I still use my brushes at least once a week, I too have sold out to the world of sticker-hungry mobs. You have to roll with the punches, my dear. But I admire your spirit of not knuckling under and waving your brush proudly.
It makes me sad as well to see some people who have never known the sheer joy of lifting a brush proudly proclaiming their Letterheadedness. Methinks they are a bit defensive about their lack of brush skills.
In my opinion, I do not care if the sign is made from vynull or 1-Shot or even swiss cheese, as long as it is well designed. I try to be a good Letterhead and teach what little I know to those who will listen. I go to as many meets as possible.
But knowing basic brush skills and letterforms enhances any sign. People buy a sign system and immediately begin raking in the bux producing crud. They choose a font because it looks "fancy", nevermind that it has no flow or meaning to the sign they are making. They buy clip art that someone else drew and stick it onto these monstrositites, and the public loves it.
I know that I am guilty of doing this also. I will edit nodes for hours before I realize that I could have just drawn and scanned the damn thing. Nobody around here seems to appreciate the beauty of a good old hand-painted sign. The public has truly sold over to the fast-food mentality of slick shinyness.
The days that I get to paint are happy ones. I don't care what you can print or cut or even design on a computer, nothing beats the fun of letters falling out of your brush. Well, almost nothing.
If I have stepped on anyone's toes I am sorry, but I tend to agree with Rob. Maybe if we all just cared a little more, tried to educate the public as well as ourselves, and took more pride in our product, we could slowly start to make a difference.
Love......Jill
Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
I use mine almost daily.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Rob,
Some of us still do, some more than others. Although you must realize that proclaimation of that on this board will bring a rash of abuse and it will be drilled into your cranium, that the way of producing signs by brush is stupid and a waste of time.
If you want a forum that talks about hand lettering you will feel more comfortable expressing your true passion at www.theletterheads.com
I know I will offend some by my comments but facts are facts. The term keepers of the craft have slipped from the overall idea of this site.
Posted by Corey Wine (Member # 1640) on :
Happy, computer design knowledgable vinylhead here that gets out and window splashes with my 1" & 2" poly foam brushes that cost $.80 each.
Ironic, you wouldn't believe how many people ask if I generated the art and lettering from a computer.
Like anything though, do you think people who used to make their coffee the old fashoined way blame Mr. Coffee for their downfall? (and yes, there is a downfall).....I envy any of you out there that can still sell hand lettering - KUDOS.
Posted by Alphonse Dente (Member # 4993) on :
Well,
Having been at this for over 25 years now, I'll weigh in on that subject.
First of all, it's not a game. It's a trade. It's a form of commerce. It's what I do for a living. I feed my family with it, pay the mortgage, finance vacations and boats and cars with it. I'm in the shop five days a week, working hard at it for eight to ten hours a day.
Don't get me wrong. I love what I do, I just don't always love what I'm doing. I often tell people that I love what I do for a living, but it IS what I do for a living.
As far as the term Letterheads is concerned. That's a tough one. I think this site would be better suited to be called "NeverendingOnlineMeet.com". It really has little to do with the original concept and spirit behind the Letterheads movement. Then again, waving a brush never had much to do with Letterheads either.
There's NOTHING wrong with vinyl. There was nothing wrong with paint either. There were really bad signmakers back in the pre-computer days, and there are still really bad signmakers today. There are also some spectacular signmakers today, that never pushed a paintbrush in their lives, producing signs that just astound me.
Jill is right in one aspect, that being concerning design. A good sign, is the end result of good design skills. The proper use of color, typefaces, negative and posative space and even illustration is all a part of that. A good sign isn't born of MDO, Cedar, Coroplast, 1Shot, Mannetti Gold, Avery A8, a Langnickle Quill or a Memorex Optical Mouse. A good sign is born of a good signmaker.
There were things we could do with paint, Damar varnish, loose leaf and chisels that are tough to do with vinyl. There are things that are being done with Roland SolJets, Frosted Glass Vinyl, SignGold and Dibond that would have been tough to do with the aforementioned resources.
I'd have to believe there were Buggy Whip Manufacturers out there once, that thought this whole automobile thing was just the ruination of transportation.
Time marches on.
I consider myself to be pretty blessed to be able to make a good living in the sign business. Depending on how far you want to go, it can be hard work, heartbreaking, ego-gratifying and spiritual all at the same time.
So it has little, if anything, to do with brushes, paint, cutters or vinyl. It's what you accomplish, what you strive to acheive, and what you expect out of this trade that matters.
Now I'm going to use a #3 Mack Scrolling Script and some 1Shot Poster Black, paint the word "Brothers" in a nice, flowing, stylized script, scan it, and cut for a tow truck I'm lettering today.
-Al
Posted by bill riedel (Member # 607) on :
Rob, stick with it and don't give up. We hand lettering people are in the minority and our services are not easy to come by. This should work out to mean that the hand lettering is worth much more than the vinyl. I just did a gold leaf on glass job that would normally be silk screened, but in order to keep the skill, I did all the outlining by hand. If mu computer were up to speed, I'd send a picture.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Fear not Rob...brush skills are still important!
I am one of the few that doesn't own a plotter!
Except for small fussy text, a skilled bush man/woman is just as fast as a person using vinyl....and makes a much larger profit!
There are many siuations where using vinyl is not practical...and brush/paint is required. And since we have become so scarce, we can charge a premium for our services.
Posted by Keith Myers (Member # 5051) on :
I can't speak for anyone else, but in my opinion this place is full of letterheads and people who would like to be letterheads. I fall into that second category..the want-to-be-letterheads. The problem is that it seems that in the past you could apprentice under a skilled sign crafter until you learned the skills necessary to consider yourself a true craftsman. While I am sure that there are some that still do that today, I feel that a lot of people use this site as their apprenticeship...I do.
I feel that to make a good letterhead you have to have the skill to create a great sign layout and the skill to produce that sign.
So should this place be called "Tech heads" or "Puterheads" or "Stickaheads" ...nope, I think letterheads fits just fine.
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
I would also have to agree with Jill about good/bad design. When graphic design programs became the norm anyone with a new Dell and a copy of illustrator considered what they did Graphic Design. There is such a thing as composition, hand sketched ideation, concept development (with pencil and paper), the appropriate choice of fonts, color selection. It's more than moving a mouse around and sending it to a plotter.
Granted, you don't have to know how to harness a buggy to be able to drive a modern car. But I have seen a lot of signs that prove a bit of traditional experience goes a long way.
I am trying to focus my attention on hand painted exterior murals. Luckily so far it is hard to get the same feel with a few rolls of vinyl. Hopefully it will stay that way!
When the local beer distributors have recent high school grads busy cutting vinyl and "trying" to make signs....the quality is should we say....lacking!
Now where's my airbrush?
Posted by Jeff Ogden (Member # 3184) on :
Rob...
I still paint 95% of my signs and have started using 2-part urethane clears over alot of it.
What I dislike about using vinyl (besides all the waste), is the color limitations. Most of my signs are clearly standing out when you drive by...they don't blend in with the other signs out there.
This can create problems...it's easy for the sign inspector to catch me if I happen to put one up without a permit. One look and he'll know who did it! . Also, if I ever had to do a duplicate sign in vinyl, it would be real tough to do unless it was a digital print from a camera.
I notice that there seems to be alot of pride among my customers..they like to tell other people that they have one of my signs. So the signs are helping me by word of mouth. My portfolio is on the streets. I have no phone book ad, and no website. I am as busy as I can be without hiring help.
I try to run my shop as an art-driven enterprise, not a money driven one. If I do something that I'm happy with, the money part usually takes care of itself.
I hope I don't sound like I'm bragging, 'cause I'm not. I try to stay humble, and to learn more and more each time I do something. I am very happy to have "discovered" the letterhead thing, and to have available to me this great site, and all the various meets that are taking place. I don't feel like the lone ranger anymore.
My hope is to apprentice some young person, so I feel like I have passed the torch, you might say. I enjoy what I 'm doing, but I would feel more fulfilled, more like a letterhead, if I was teaching someone what I know.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
If ya hate this place so bad, don't let the door hit ya on the a$$ on the way out.
Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
I'm proud to still call myself a sign guy and Letterhead. I don't own a plotter. Our work is ALL hand done. But we seldom use what you might consider traditional methods to produce a sign.
This being said I don't look down my nose at anybody. It's a tough world out there and being self employed is a tough way to make a living at times. THe bulk of the world wants QUICK AND FAST AND CHEAP. There's lots who think it is the ONLY way to play.
The craft is still very much alive. Attend ANY letterhead meet, pick up a copy of SignCraft, or AMAL and you will see some of the best work ever produced in any age.
It may not be done daily in most shops, but it is being done.
Although I see lots of work around I don't personally care for, I see more and more I LOVE too. The craft IS still alive and well albeit not as common as it once was.
There will always be a need for crafts persons who hand produce quality pieces. Some will do it "totally the old fashioned way" - others will embrace modern technology to help them produce better signs.
I run into more and more folks like me all the time too. We tend to ignore the traditional rules, embrace the current technology where we feel it benefits us and keep producing the work we have in our hearts and heads.
There's room for all in the Letterhead movement.
-grampa dan
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
I too paint 50% of the signs I make. Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
I started out in 1975 at Butera Sign School and spent many hours learning how to use a brush. I remember learning that good brush work cannot over come bad design. Same holds true now, the best programs and machiners are only as good as the person using them. As much as I miss the simplicity of those early years, I'm in the sign business, not the handlettering business. But there is a place for those who wish to pursue that path, after all calligraphers still exist 500 years after the invention of the printing press. One thing I've found amusing is that the early forms of set type copied those hand calligraphy styles, then eventually were replaced with standardized fonts, which when I started painting we were often painstakingly reproducing "machine fonts" by hand. Now that machines have replaced hand lettering, we are trying to replicate those flowing styles of hand lettering by machine, again.
Posted by Peter Schuttinga (Member # 2821) on :
I learned from my dad initially, we were lettering paper grocery store banners. After that I learned using a mahl stick and using one-shot enamels from an older Italian craftsman. Both were very skilled with the brush, but neither one had any great lay-out skills that they could pass along. These skills are not easy to come by, but this site is certainly helping me open my eyes to the possibilities. I do own a plotter, have cut a fair swack of vinyl, and can honestly say that although I like the perfect look of the letters, I too feel these lack a sense of 'flow' at times. I enjoy designing on a computor, Corel can be a great tool to use. The option the is to excecute the sign in either vinyl, paint, or a combination of both. This is not always an artistic decision, but a business decision, and we all have a business to run to support ourselves. Rob, I don't disagree with what you have said. I would challenge you to share these ideals with us, through examples of past and present work, and show others that it is still possible to "live by the brush". I come to this site to learn, to share, to have a good laugh or two, to open my eyes to other possibilities, and to meet others in the sign game. To quote Martha "and that's a good thing..."
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Quote post title: ___________________________________________ Any one actually using brushes anymore? ___________________________________________
As opposed to what other means of spreading the paint???
LOL...I'm so sorry...I know I'm such a wise_____ . . .
OK. If push comes to shove? The plotter will go before the brushes!
I enjoy doin' vinyl...and BTW Si... I actually make more money with it . . . or at least the same DPH as hand-lettering, because that plotter's pretty fast too . . .(lol)
But NOTHING can EVER replace the sheer pleasure of hand-lettering and hand-painted pictorial work!!
Rob...the only reason you read so much more stuff about vinyl here is because anytime you have 'mechanics' and man-made materials doin' all the work there are more 'technical difficulties.... . . .constant questions and repairs . . .and they can be eventually fixed with technical assistance via the BB and phone calls walking through it . . .
Try 'walkin' someone through' hand-lettering or mixing a certain colour of paint . . .
People who hand paint a lot, or WANT to....
Well, they are usually busy 'sper'mintin' and practicin' the trade . . .
*NOTE This post was edited to add a 'thumbs up' 'toon, which in all actuality, needs a little paint smudge on the end of it . . .
[ February 25, 2005, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: Sheila Ferrell ]
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
I miss the old days, when you'd show up with Paint Box in hand, and before you had the first letter painted you'd have an Audience, You don't get that with Vinyl as much. YEP YEP YEP.. Sure miss those days.
Posted by FranCisco Vargas (Member # 145) on :
Sure we use a brush, that's how we got this done...
to paint is a beautiful thing!!
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Rob, I would love to see some posts on how to use a brush. If you posted some brush usage information I know I would read them all. please do post some so I can learn.
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
I know how you feel, Rob. We're caught up in a world of 'I-want-it-now' vinyl shops. But if you believe in what you're doing, stick with it. The computer is becoming more and more versatile, with ever-expanding capabilities. Still, there are some effects that it can't duplicate.
I use the computer and the plotter, but either I use them for the design and pounce a pattern to paint, or I cut out the vinyl letters and use paint for some special outlines, shading, or some creative border work. It's the 'personal' touch that will separate your work from all the 'cookie-cutter' outfits out there.
I guess one of the main pains of the biz to me in the past was the making of patterns....tracing artwork, blowing stuff up on the overhead projector, sizing, and then having to pounce them by hand. The computer and plotter have drastically simplified this process for me, and made painting the sign just that much more pleasureable.
I pray that the day will never come when I have to hang up my brushes. Until that time, I think I will continue to enjoy this site, along with the technical crap too. Some of it is useful. And that is, after all, why we are here...to share.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
posts and books wont teach you lettering skill. it will show the how to and the principles. to learn how to paint is a touchy-feely thing. you may understand "how to from a book or post" but it wont make a you hand painter. sorta like learnin martial arts from a book....and we know that dont work.
[ February 25, 2005, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
I hand painted everything for 15 years. Still do some, but most of my work other than outlines and borders is vinyl. I adapted. When vinyl first popped up, I argued that I could do something they cant, which was true. But more and more people would ask me to put vinyl on their trucks,etc. I fought it hard and didnt want to get into the "vinyl craze" but I did. Sorta glad too. Im lucky, cause I can do both. If I get tired of sticking vinyl, I can open up my brushes and use paint. Or vice versa. Its opened doors for people that are great designers, but cant hand letter, to make a living. Its also created a frenzy of people that use vinyl to make the most horrible looking signs on earth. Ive got a couple of those here. I dont always embrace technology, but Im glad that I made the jump and took on using vinyl for signwork. Ill always be a letterhead, but with vinyl capabilities. You just gotta adapt and make a living.
Posted by Doug Fielder (Member # 803) on :
I too use a brush every day. I took the time and initiative to seek out a signpainter to let me apprentice, and it was some of the best times of my life. I now live in the middle of no-place and sell my hand-done lettering as a skill and a craft, as well as restoring antique Harleys in the methods they were done back in their day. I come from the Alan Johnson, Glen Weisgerber mentality (scary thought), computers make better paper weights.
"Limited by Technology"
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
Hiya Rob! Where have you been? We missed you!
For all you here who haven't met Rob or seen his work, he is one of Australia's most talented mural and pictorial signwriters ever. He has been an inspiration to me since we met at my first Letterhead meet in Queensland.
Rob ... I spend more money per month on paint than vinyl The profit margin and satisfaction speaks for itself! I make a VERY good living and enjoy doing it. My daughter does too!
Walls, windows, murals, blackboards are the spice of life mate!
Where were you when I did the 3 big water tanks in Rocky last year? Couldn't find you. Got a good mate RT down from the USA to help out.
Still got your yacht? I'll take you up on a sail one weekend. Give you a call.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
It's good just to see the topic well received and supported. I have 2 plotters and an Edge and I fully support the continued use of hand lettering where one sees fit to use it. Hell last week I did a paper sign for a customer and enjoyed every minute of it.
Paper signs around here are unheard of anymore.
[ February 25, 2005, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by Rich Stebbing (Member # 368) on :
Yeah I still use em', all the time. I just bought 8 brand new brushes. I use alot of little rollers too. Of course these are mostly for "window-promos", but ocassionly the sign kit and 1-shot will see some action as well. I can remember "old timers" responding to the early "sign machines" saying they would'nt mind having one for Bank Hours and other such copy. Some of those guys now have even went digital! I cut vinyl, but I find myself doing more and more hand lettering all the time. What used to be a chore,...now has become a niche! Game? I like that,...it sounds more like fun, and much of it is! As far as the Letterheads go, ...I have always felt it was more about a certain kind of spirit and a way of thinking than equated with tools of the trade. I come here and pick and choose which posts to read or respond to, so the tech stuff that does'nt apply gets passed over. But the rest is great!
Posted by Rod Tickle (Member # 575) on :
G'day there ol mate, where ya been?? Rob I know how ya feel and it is a shame, I do hand letter and airbrush almost everyday. I just got back from a week in Adelaide airbrushing murals, graphics and signwriting three prime movers and it was all paint- love it!!
As jon said I too can make paint go further than vinyl although running a sign shop as well as all the airbrush stuff I do I do need a computer to keep up.
All the best to you man, dont be a strainger!!
keep in conact, I'd love to see what you have been doing lately as I really love you work.
Cheers!!
Rod
Posted by Mark Matyjakowski (Member # 294) on :
I try to have a brush in my hand daily ... after work (vinyl, screenprint, commercial crap)
When Jon (Bushie) mentioned the the murals it reminded me of that convience store you did. I searched/found it on portfolio section but pictures are gone ... is there a spot on the web where they are now to view ... that was great
Posted by david drane (Member # 507) on :
Hi Rob, whatever you do, don't put your brushes away. When I travel around Bundy I can't help but drool over some of your old work. The hand lettering you did on the Graphic art Mart vehicle is just so goodand I admire it every time I see it. You are a true master of the trade and always will be and although you feel you are becoming a dinosaur I would sure love to meet you again one day soon.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
and Chicken Little said, the sky is falling, the sky is falling...
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I brush 3 times daily
(well.. OK, sometimes only 2)
Posted by mark zilliox (Member # 3873) on :
doug ! you "pineapple eatin' vinyl guru's " are something !nice joke. Rob, I share your sentiments , jill is close to the mark, but a talent from above is a talent to enjoy, methinks. After 27 years, i'm still learning hand skills, when i do brushwork, about 40 % of op's, its GOOTA BE 110 % ! Like others mentioned to keep warmed up & produce work that will get more work. this site is testimony your not "alone" ( ET ! phone-Island sign !@#!@*!!)
Posted by Mark Stokes (Member # 5351) on :
What Rob can do with paint is amazing he is a legend of the brush in Australia for sure. His portfolio of work is incredible I was lucky to meet him in Hervey Bay. If you can paint signs or do signs on a machine just have layout skills because that is the key to a great looking sign.That bloke named Ticks aint bad either
Posted by Duncan Wilkie (Member # 132) on :
"Lettering Pencil" or "Quill" sounds much more romantic than "45° Blade" or "Print Head". What about "Yellow Ochre" or "Prusian Blue" before we had "Imitation Gold" and "Periwinkle" What the heck is a Periwinkle anyway. The sign industry still feeds my family, but the "soul" isn't there anymore. Except here of course, thanks for keeping the light burning folks. A special thanks to all you folks that host Letterhead Meets.
Posted by John Lennig (Member # 2455) on :
"I Like to Paint"... in a Dana Carvey Voice...
I started out with brushes, and I'll end uup with Brushes... did the Gerber thing for 17 years.... but, the Heart wasn't in it.... ala Duncan....
I'm heading up to Nelson tomorrow to deliver a sign, and then go down to see Cal Trauter, in Penticton. He's an all brush guy, wel will have fun!
Big TGop Goes North
John
Posted by shon lenzo (Member # 1364) on :
I like to hand letter on natural cedar here on the northern Oregon Coast... makes for a great 'old time' beach sign, weathers nicely. I am also doing a mural with the great wave, sandcastles,dolphins,starfish, and local scenery at an indoor swimming pool. One shot turns matt if it gets misty.. I use the plotter,too. I agree the quality has gone down hill since just anyone can type in letters and spit them out in vinyl. It is great for menu boards and stuff , though. I truly prize my handpainting skills, and they do pay off well. I design to make things look great either way. It seems to me , 'A brush has five sides'. -Shon
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
I couldn't get away from brushes, even if I wanted to (not that I do). I guess I'm the "odd job guy", other shops refer work to me that's not practical to do any other way.
I'm trying to get serious about vinyl, but my income would be in serious jeopardy without brushes.
One thing I have to say though, it's SO COOL do vectorize an original image, and be able to work with it in a computer. It's my artwork, but once it's "in there" I can enlarge it, reduce it, skew it, mirror it, send it to friends, use it on other projects, cut it a hundred times, man this is REALLY cool!
I read somewhere that US coast guard officer trainees have to learn to sail a big two or three- master out on the seas. I do a lot of so called primitive skills myself, so much that time travel to 1895 wouldn't be too much of a shock for me (I think). And so it is that I'm continually amazed at this tech stuff.
It'll never be either-or.
[ February 25, 2005, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: James Donahue ]
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
The "craft" is always changing and evolving. I wish I had the hand lettering skills that I so admire - I also wish I had a thousand other skills.
I still feel I am worthy of sharing the wisdom passed down from the "Keepers of the Craft" and unless it is solely about hand lettering, perhaps in the true light of letterheads I too may have something worthy of sharing.
There is no doubt in my mind that hand lettering is far more exquisite than vinyl, but you have to admit computers allow for the tweaking that makes an excellent design.
Progress is not always progress, and I hope the art of hand lettering does not die, but I also hope you will allow me to share in some of the other wonders of the field.
Especially the glass/gold leaf branch.
Posted by Wayne Osborne (Member # 4569) on :
Brushes everyday, for 95% of everything! ( not that the computer is a BAD thing-Just let it enhance your skills-not limit them) Did a van ,last week all vinyl ( previously a Painted van customer, but this one is leased) No fonts out there to match the previous vehicles so a half hour black on white( hand lettered) of the relevant bits for my vinyl cuttin' friend to scan and cut and job done)
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Hi Rob, good to see you're still in the land of the living! Brushes, spraygun, plotter & airbrush...all get used with varying intensities from week to week.
One day I hope to do work as nice as some of yours- as dave Drane says, I've also driven around Bundy & admired the nice signs you've done, (and wished I had my camera on me at the time too!)
I just did an airbrushed portrait last night for a friend who turned 60 today. I'll post a piccie in a few days. As vinyl becomes more common, brush & handwork becomes more appreciated by some...
Best wishes & keep in touch!
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
I have to say to jelly Beany!
I LOVE YOU!
I will never give up the brushes, Airbrush or anything else,(Pencil and Paper) but industry does demand Computer work only.
The odd customer will come across saying, "I like it that way" and all I can do is SMILE!
Never because of the money value...Only because I get to use my brain again........... Beany
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
for those who don't know Rob, here's a link to a Step by Step he did here a few years back...
I’ve said before the biggest reason I gave up using my brushes is because of the changes to lettering paint. Have the same changes taken place with lettering paint in Australia?
I can see how the computer age doesn’t lend itself to those that do pictorial stuff as easily as those of us that don’t.
A friend of mine in the sign biz made a comment to me that the computer use in the lettering biz was right up my alley…because I’m such an anal perfectionist, the preciseness the computer brings to the mix works well for me.
When I ventured into in house vinyl production I got the same satisfaction I used to get from hand lettering in terms of producing lettering that was designed and executed to standards above what most of the vinyl jockeys around me was doing.
I still enjoy it when someone looks at something I done and because the norm is for vinyl to look nasty they are somewhat impressed that nice lettering can be done with vinyl.
Depending on the type of work you’re doing I would have to disagree that you can make better money with paint. I’m definitely making money easier now than back with paint.
I will admit at times I miss doing a nice bevel edged, faded; airbrush job that I well know is capable of being done on the puter and printed. I just haven’t ventured that far into the computer end of things yet.
For now I’m happy being able to keep the family feed and what not, while most generally being satisfied creatively with what I produce ultimately with my mind.
When the scarce time comes (maybe once or twice a year) that I touch my brushes, I honestly feel that I prefer to produce lettering the computer way. Maybe it’s because as I mentioned above I like the precision part of it, but I also think most work can be done easier and faster with vinyl, and less hassle.
As for the misdirection of the spirit of letterheads I think it’s right on track…you can come here and learn, teach, or share just as always…and just as always…there will always be conflict and a difference in opinions…just like in the real world…wait a minute…this isn’t the real world…
Jeff Posted by Stephen Faulkner (Member # 2511) on :
I painted 2 panels at the Edgehead meet yesterday! Does that count? (I kinda felt like a freak too, but it was a nice get-together) Love.....Jill
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
I like it all and even supply our vinyl customers with toothbrushes Posted by FranCisco Vargas (Member # 145) on :
Hey Stephen or do you prefer to be called Geet? Anyway I remember ole Rey Guise from the San Jose area, Never really got to know him real well, spoke to him once or twice. I was reading some of the articles where he met up with Hollingsworth. He was also an old sign painter, him I remember because he was about 6-1 or 2, tall guy to me around that time he was in his 80's but still climbing ladders and carrying planks to do his wall jobs. Rey was known for his gold leaf work, and always signed his name on all of his jobs. Yeah life as the sign painter is becoming a true art, now people want to collect all the old hand painted stuff!!
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Almost always.
The vinyl plotter is there for the "quickie" jobs, but the better money and more challenging work comes in and the customers are predominantly looking for paint work.
But in either case, strong design skils are still your best weapon.
my 2 cents... Rapid
Posted by Rob Clark (Member # 787) on :
i hesitated as I logged on, fully expecting to have started a fire, and fully expecting some criticism for my provocative comments.........well, apart from Kissy' telling me not to slam the door on my way out, God bless ya girl, I laughed and laughed, What I got was mostly encouragement, especially from my Aussie compatriots, bless you guys all as well, we will catch up soon. The most important thing I found in reading the replies to my post was "PASSION" passion for this "game" that I wrongly thought was being lost, no, It is alive n kickin, you guys are the ones keeping it there, i am the one who needs to get my ars into gear. I am, but I am taking a different tack, I have begun to study under a great calligraphy artist by the name of Dave Wood, his work is truly inspirational and there aint no dang 'puter to be seen. The thing i like about this quiet and simple craft is that the work is about bringing beautiful words to life, ancient wisdoms, wise sayings, quotable quotes, positive affirmations, poems etc, in fact, much of the work is framed and will be admired respected and appreciated for generations instead of just till the next owner takes over and paints the whole thing out without a second thought.
It has stirred my blood, i LOVE IT and cant wait to be able to go full time. I am learning all over again, wow, and under a true master, Yes our craft lives on, even if this apprentice is pushin 50!!
Good on you all, yes, the spirit of Letterheads is alive n well in whatever guise it takes.
Thanks everyone
Rob
Posted by Catharine C. Kennedy (Member # 4459) on :
Please post your caligraphy as you get samples! Pen or brush?
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
I still use brushes, and long for the days before vinyl lettering, because I think my profit margin was greater and my overhead was lower. I also like to push paint around. I like the smoothness of it. I like the smell in the morning with a cup of coffee nearby.
Rob, you wouldn't be on this site; however, if you didn't have at least a computer, so therefore you have at least embraced some up-to-date technology.
I decided to go with the flow, because I saw benefits of doing so, and in our area, customers liked some of the advantages of vinyl lettering. I don't think it hurts to do both unless you work hard to carve out a niche in the marketplace and stick with just hand painted work as some have mentioned you'll probably have more work by doing both. It's a choice based both on necessity and desire.
It's hard to talk on this board about hand lettering compared to computer work; though, I've noticed -- since tips and tricks for computers are easily described via the board, and tips and tricks for hand done work is better witnessed live like at a letterhead event. I seemed to need letterhead events to encourage me to continue working with my brushes. I'm going to get the creative outlet I need one way or the other. Lately I've been trying to muster up the time to paint fine art paintings which is something I was trained in and enjoy.
Hey...good luck...and if I should get there before you -- save me a seat.
[ March 01, 2005, 07:47 AM: Message edited by: Bill Diaz ]
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
I noted a touch of criticism in your post. Be careful. At some point in time, I'm sure signpainters that started using that new fangled pre mixed paint called One Shot were made fun of for not grinding their own pigment, boiling the raw linseed oil, then mixing in the lead, oils and various other chemicals themselves. Like others have said in this thread, you can't stop evolution.
I started with the computer, because I could start making a living now instead of apprenticing for 5 years first. (Actually now was like 15 years ago, and who would I aprentice under? I could not move to accomplish this.)
I have brushes and am trying to learn. The little I hand letter I love and will continue, but I don't think you should knock people that use tools other than lettering quills.
Keepers of the craft... our creedo. When did craft mean hand lettering. How about glue chipped glass, gilding and angel gilding, sandblasting, carving.
The most important part of our craft in my opinion is design. A good design person will be a good sign person. You put in crap you get crap.
As far as this being tech-ville or what ever you called it, a brush doesn't break down, start doing weird things all by itself, or have a lot of accessories to interact with. Computers have the most problems and will be the focus of conversation here.
The Letterhead meets are keeping the craft alive and well. Don't worry.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
I feel your pain and frustration Rob. Hand lettering types were once sorta special and we all like to feel special. Like a musician, we worked hard to develop a skill that very few others could do in a professional manner.
Times change. Somewhere out there, an old pony express rider and his pony are cursing the automobile.
The original Letterheads embraced the best of our past, but they were never against learning new technology or making a buck. Those still in the business today have all the latest toys.
Here in Letterville, we continue to do what we did 10 years ago. We're still pressuring visitors to learn more about Letterheads and get to that first meet. We're pleased to say that many of today's meets are directly linked to Letterheads involved in this online community.
Those that are passionate about the benefits of using brush and paint need to stop bitchin' and get more involved. Step forward from the crowd and organize a Letterhead group in your area. Think of new ways to use Letterville to educate today's new signmakers. Traditional hand lettering is still a wonderful skill to develop.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Rob, from the initial post being self-described as "pickin' a fight" to the predictions of "defensiveness" from those 'heads lacking brush skills... (you don't mind if I refer to us as letterheads do you) I almost feel an apology is in order for the let-down when you logged on "fully expecting to have started a fire"
I think you will find however, that the letterheads (those on this site anyway) who do not hand letter are quite respectful of the craftsmen who paved the way ahead of our entrance into this trade. The sad thing is when traditional sign painters are not respectful of the new breed of Letterheads. Just as there had to have always been the corner-cutting hack-job painters at the bottom of the barrel... there are an abundance of vinyl jockies who don't command much respect for there contributions (or lack thereof) ... but those are not the sort easily found on this site.
If you want to see a fire burn out of control... get a newbie to post something derogotory about hand lettering... but when a seasoned, proven & respected signwriter like yourself needs to rant about the good old days, that fire just burns out because it's just not the inflammatory topic you thought it might be... it is an easily understood fact of life.
Point of observation: most of us who weren't painting 20 years ago, were doing something else worthy & whatever that was, it has probably also been changed over time... not completely lost, & maybe in some small ways improved... but we all have our own "good old days" to mourn.. not just signwriters.
So I think your post strikes a chord with everyone, instead of striking a nerve.
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
When you sit down and think of it, we wouldnt have all these nice typestyles if it werent for hand letterers would we. Most every font you can buy today started out as a hand lettered font and are still used that way. I hand lettered a 4' by 12 sign yesterday in the comfort of my shop. Felt good again, and I needed the stress relief. Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
way to go Brother Deaton. Posted by Arthur Vanson (Member # 2855) on :
In addition to some of the points raised, had it not been for the vinyl revolution, I doubt we would have appreciated our own skills in the same way we do now. While writing a shop fascia last summer, from start to finish, I had an enthusiastic audience clustered round the scaffold, there were old men genuinely thrilled to watch it being done the old way again, and children on their way to school who’d never seen it done the old way and thought I was doing it a completely new way! In the old days it would have been just another day and all the remarks about steady hands and booze would have been an irritant. As it was, I had a marvellous time, felt fully appreciated and could almost have finished the job without the aid of scaffold.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote:...could almost have finished the job without the aid of scaffold.
you sure have a way with words!
Posted by Kristie Byrnes (Member # 3510) on :
No vinyl here....ALL custom paint....only brushes and airbrushes. I don't even have the 1st clue about plotters and all that. Itsa brush or nuthin with me.
Posted by Alphonse Dente (Member # 4993) on :
This is in NO WAY aimed at kristie, she just sparked the thought was all...
"Custom Paint". Now THERE'S a phrase that sure gets bantered about all to often these days.
-Al
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Heheheheeeeee ... I love computers and vinyl !!!
Ther pain in the a** price shoppers can haggle with the "quickie" shops ... but ... with so few of us hand letters left in my area ... when someone wants/needs a hand lettered sign, there is no haggling!
We 'brushies" now command a premium price for our work!
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Si, That's exactly right ...I have said many times when people suggest that the 'vinyl' industry & technology is going to overtake hand work . . .
"No, it's just the opposite...customers now view hand-work as that much more unique, and appealing to 'eccentric' taste and now specifically request..'I want it HAND-painted please'..."
I like bein' able to do vinyl for the ol' regular for sale signs and stuff because I realize it's freein' up more time for me to paint custom stuff!!
Posted by jim gunn (Member # 6285) on :
what would a signpainter do if he forgot his mahlstick? Forget he ever had to use such a lame crutch. You don't need it-you use your pinkie finger as a guide and get embarassed if anyone reminds you that you ever used a silly stick as a crutch. A proper signpainter has no need of this amateur superstition
Posted by jim gunn (Member # 6285) on :
what would a signpainter do if he forgot his mahlstick? Forget he ever had to use such a lame crutch. You don't need it-you use your pinkie finger as a guide and get embarassed if anyone reminds you that you ever used a silly stick as a crutch. A proper signpainter has no need of this amateur superstition
Posted by Arthur Vanson (Member # 2855) on :
Such erudition! Is it draughfty under that bridge, Jim?
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
And here I was, thinking Rob Clarke had come back in 2006- where are you Rob! (When I'm out of inspiration, I dig out some photos I have of his work...)
(BTW Alphonse... but that's not your name I remember now(!)...anyway to call signwriting a 'game' is aussie idiom for the trade. It's a humourous way of saying you enjoy your work...sort of.)
PS- yes, still using brushes a plenty- I detest the sacks of waste from vinyl and will still brush if I have a bit of spare time. Nothing's changed for me since that post ages ago except more airbrushing, more screen printing, some digital printing, but roughly the same amount of brush & vinyl, and I think our designs have improved a lot since those days.
[ January 26, 2006, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: Ian Stewart-Koster ]
Posted by David Fisher (Member # 107) on :
Gday Rob, glad to know you are still pulling a brush. I piked from the trade myself for the easy money but I still enjoy he odd ski boat or fun job. Got any new/fun jobs on the boil around Bundy? David
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
iam usin my brushes yesterday and today....learnin how to paint with URATHANE automotive paints......looks like its the next good paint......
Posted by jake snow (Member # 5889) on :
Now THIS was one great post!!!!!
Posted by Rene Giroux (Member # 4980) on :
Mmmmmmm... interesting post.
I recognize that most jobs are vinyl now because it is wanted this way. The clients want cheap and some of us choose to respond to this even if no one HAS to... it's a question of demand.
Are we producing cheap signs because of demand or is there demand because we're willing to do it ???
I leave this one to each individual... personally, I don't even own a plotter (anymore), and this is MY CHOICE !
My work concists of carved signs that are all hand painted. The one roll of vinyl I own is for making masks that I hand cut just like the rubber masks. I do work with computers and I have a 4 x 8 CNC table, but sorry no cheap signs here, I don't even waste time trying.
What was the question again ??? oh yeah brushes, sure... I use them all the time. Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Welcome to Letterville Jim. One of my mentors is from Essex, Ontario.
It's always interesting to see these old posts brought back. I haven't heard that old maulstick debate in many years. How do you new guys rediscover these old posts?
Posted by Bob Nugent (Member # 3743) on :
To Jim Gunn It is sad and insulting to the memory of many a great signwriter to say what you say about the mahl stick being a crutch. You obviously don't understand the proper usage of a mahl stick and obviously have never watched a true signwriter use one. I never could master it, but I watched in awe what some of the early signwriters could do with a mahlstick. I can't explain how it is used properly, you have to watch a master use one before you can understand. I always try to remain civil, but you, sir, are an arrogant man.
Posted by jake snow (Member # 5889) on :
That "Show all topics" thingy that you put on the site Steve
I love that one....lotssssss of good stuff Posted by jake snow (Member # 5889) on :
I agree with Mr. Nugent (are you related to Ted).
Mr Gunn, you "pinky painters" have know reason to bash any method of slinging a brush. In all the years that I have been around this, I have only seen 2 or 3 "pinky painters" that could "wip" a corner like someone who used a mahl or hand over hand technique. If you are a pinhead, then thats a different animal. But lettering is not. If you are one of the few that can letter that way with the same quality as the rest, then kudos. But that still does not give you the right to bash the rest of us now does it.
Arrogant is not the word I believe I would have used.
Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
What about us folks who don't use anything? I only carry a mahl stick on jobs or to meets where I want to "look" like a sign painter. I don't use a pinky, or hand-over hand. Ask anyone who's seen me paint. My best signs are painted upside-down too. (not me, the panels) I like looking like a freak! Love.....Jill
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
LOLOLOL JILLY!
Anway . . . that stick . . .
Gee . . . and here I always felt kind'a embarrassed for usin' my pinky and not being capable of usin' a mal-stick . . .
It's all I can do to hold paint in one hand and brush in the other . . . I cain't hol' nuthin' else!
I reckon it's just in how ya got started and who taught ya . . .
My boss never used one, and his boss never used one . . .
Hey! I'm a 3rd generation painter!! . . . lol
Here we are at the bottom line again: . . . It don't matter what toolz ya uze, just chooz, 'cauz if ya snooz ya looz!
;D
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
I was hand lettering 12 years BC (before computers). I still treasure my brushes and keep them in good shape. I have one that Al Grand gave me about 15 years ago that he said was at least 30 years old; it's still in very good shape. I've got sets of quills in brown and grey by Langnigger, Percy Baker and Grumbegger I've got liners, stripers, bulletin stroke fitches, blending fitches, an Alton Gilespie "stealth brush", and probably some others. I still get a woodie by walking into a grungy, disorganized sign shop and smelling lettering enamel - especially if it's been thinned with Edge. I don't get calls for hand lettering much anymore but I never turn down an opportunity. I keep up my skills at meets much more than here. I'm as big a techno-junkie as anybody here but I readily admit that there is nothing like the satisfaction you get from hand lettering.
Posted by Bob Nugent (Member # 3743) on :
As I said in my earlier post, I never mastered the mahlstick and few painters today use one, but I know it is not a crutch because I have seen what a skilled practitioner can do with one. I just resent someone saying it is a crutch. It is like their way is the only way and that is just not right.
By the way, I am not related to Ted Nugent, but I do agree with much of his philosophy.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
I don't use a crutch either!
I learned to letter without one, and on occasion hand over hand. Maybe when I get old and shakey, I will have to learn to use a mahl stick!
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
For me, it’s more of a maul stick, considering my hand lettering abilities, or lack thereof.
I have watched Chapman load a brush, chisel the edge, twirl it around corners, etc. a number of times in the 35 years I have been in the sign business. Don’t let him know I used lettering brushes quite a bit this week with some jobs we have in the shop and employed some of the tactics he teaches. If he does find out, he’ll be relieved to know what I was working on couldn’t technically be called lettering.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Harding...take two asprins and call me in the morning. You're delirious. "Using a brush"...stay away from those mustang grapes...it's causing you to talk out of your head.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
I resisted getting a plotter as long as I could. After I had one for a few years, I found out it just wasn't for me. Oh, I do a few vinyl jobs every now and then when somebody wants to pay what it's worth, but most want it cheap so I pass. I use my brushes every day. These days they are sword stripers. I occasionally get a hand lettering job and really, really enjoy it.
On the subject of maulsticks, I never learned to use one and never ran into a job that I couldn't do and yes I've done glass gold. There were only a few signpainters in Memphis when I was coming up that used maulsticks and I was never fortunate enough to work around any and have them show me how to use it. Anyways, back in the eighties I was traveling around the country looking to relocate. I hit one section in Florida that I almost settled in. I hit a number of shops looking for work. It was the same thing with every shop. I'd do the "audition" For Sale by Owner sign and the shop owner would say something along the lines of, "I'd hire you, you're good, but you don't use a maulstick and all the other painters here do" I kept looking and went into one shop where I told the owner "now, I'm gonna warn you, I don't use a maulstick" They guy laughed and said "I don't care if you shove the brush up your a$$ and back up to the sign to paint it! It's the quality of the work that counts, not the process" He was gonna hire me but for some reason I can't remember, I wanted to check out another location and passed on the job.
Posted by Doug Rontz (Member # 6261) on :
I use brushes and enjoy it, I actually find it very relaxing, I started in the pre-computer age (well I'm shure they were around but few & far between)kinda feel a little bad for the new generation of sign people because (as mentioned earlier in this post)it is very rewarding to step back at the end of a job & see what you have created with raw God given talent & minimal equip. & materials. I'm not trying to degrade anyone, I see amazing design & execution of signage , vehicle graphics & lettering everyday, that I'm certainly not capable of at this point & wouldn't have a clue where to begin. However if you have never brushed, try it if you can find the time , after you get by the shaking & holding your breathe while trying to create the perfect thick & thin "O" It's fun.
Posted by Jackson Smart (Member # 187) on :
I use my brushes on a regular basis. I get enormous satisfaction by painting letters and artwork. Not every job calls for a lettering brush, so I have a large assortment of brushes, each designed for a different aspect of the trade.
Now as for a mahl stick...i could not live without mine. I have three different sizes, the most used is a stainless steel tube 1/4" in diamater and is 4' long. I learned how to use it when I first started doing signs. Keeps the greasy fingers and hands OFF the surface. Nothing looks worse than a sign that was not cleaned properly before and after. But then again, each person has thier own way of doing things I reckon.
The comment about using a mahl stick has the potential of causing great angst between users and non users...not unlike the debate between users of vinul and paint.
We will see the direction it takes. Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
If I were still painting signs with brush and paint, then I would still be using my high tech custom made maul stick. I only know of one other awesome painter who has the exact same stick that I have and this guy is the real shizzit!
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
I use Don King's "Royal Shaft", one of the best mahl sticks I've ever encountered...had about a dozen varities, since thrown them out, RS does it all in one stick...lite weight, good balance, all around good tool...
Posted by John Lennig (Member # 2455) on :
still use the first stick i got, '63, 3 pc. alum. been lost, run over, have to "tune it up" every time i use it, got another one from a passed on letterer... got two from england, 2 pc wood/w brsss connecter, even got an "extra one", just in case...
but, learned Hand Down, and do lots of smaller stuff that way... and Big Stuff, just the hand and the Brush, ... so many ways to push the Pigment...
Now, lately, i've kind of fallen for a 2-3" angled sash brush, "it's all paint ..
John.
Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
John, Watching you paint last summer @ Mazeppa was an inspiration. I love your enthusiasm. (no comments about your dancing) love.....Jill
Posted by Arthur Vanson (Member # 2855) on :
Never tried a hi tech mahlstick, is that the Mac of the analoque lettering world? Mine has a greeheart shaft cut from an old fishing rod of my Grandfather's. It gets a regular polish with linseed oil, I love that smell. I've had other writer's ask how I can pin a vertical with a tapered stick – you really do have to wonder how some people survive in this challenging world!
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Arthur, my mahl stick is one of those newer cordless ones- I think in its former life it may have been an arrow, but its life was spent (so it's actually a Spentium- not a bad model, if you get hit by it, it mega-hurtz, but it only processes one line at a time).
I also have a newer wireless one, which began its life as a golf club handle from memory, but I don't have the hand of the newer operating system it requires, so I haven't upgraded.
Posted by Arthur Vanson (Member # 2855) on :
Ian, the Spentium sounds great. But, before you try upgrading the other one's OS you should try restoring it to an earlier lead-based date, it works sometimes. If you did get it going again, do you have a dongle for each or are you hoping the Spentium's would work in both?
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
aah, Arthur, I forgot, linseed oil is a great restorer- thanks a million for the hint! (there are still sufficient traces of lead based red, orange-chrome and yellow on it to keep it radioactive, and after I accidentally cracked it one day, I had no need for the dongle. A bit of masking tape and epoxy resin fixed the crack, so it's easy to do gentle banana curves now.
The golf club one was a cheapy ripoff from China, so I don't expect it to be too reliable, but it's just there for emergencies, like if the EPA bloke walks in- it looks clean and defragged, (unlike myself!)
I'll have to get a photo for you of it on Monday.
(p.s. when someone asks how you do a line with a tapered stick, I simply explain that I have to turn it upside down to manage the second half of the line, providing you curl your tongue the right way at the junction)
Posted by Jackson Smart (Member # 187) on :
Posted by jake snow (Member # 5889) on :
Ricky Jackson Said
quote: I still get a woodie by walking into a grungy, disorganized sign shop and smelling lettering enamel - especially if it's been thinned with Edge.
If you ever make it up here to TN and swing by the shop, you best be wearing a pair of blue jeans! No sweatpance allowed! Posted by Arthur Vanson (Member # 2855) on :
Ian, you are just being silly now! On a more serious note, and for the benefit of others, here's a before and after to show the value of defragging after a system crash. You will note the complete elimination of masking tape and the considerable lengthening of the shaft after defragmentation.
Posted by Linda Silver Eagle (Member # 274) on :
Bob,
I had the luxury of painting down an easel frum a fella from one o' them thar Carolinas and I'm tellin you what, youdda thunk it was a bionic implant the way he used that thang.
I asked him to teach me what he knew and get this, he wanted to know how I painted with one hand in my butt pocket. LOL.
I couldn't convert him none but I learned well what he had to teach me. Given initeal instruction, I mostly just leaned my mahl stick in the corner by the door and presented it as a place for tirekickers to sit and wait till I cared to leave paying work for them.
I still use it when I've got a wet on wet tah-dah in front of me though.
...and now we return you to the educational stylings of Arthur Vanson...ahem (sorry dude, you beat me back to the post LOL.)
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Si, I just love what you have been saying!!! Yea, hand painted work is becoming harder to find, & the value of it should be increasing!
I am still learning to paint better, & love it. Any body can cut vinyl, but to lay out the sign well AND to be able to paint it, now that is really something!
Posted by David Fisher (Member # 107) on :
Ian /Arthur, As the inventor of the mahl stick (as well as heterosexual sex - that's another patent dispute pending I can't speak about) I can officially say that after Mahlstick V1.2, defragging was not a system requirement as it was in previous versions, although defragging may have removed unneccessary cotton threads from UnderpantsBallend v1.1 We also dispensed with the masking tape retaining system with the more streamlined elastic band/rag end knob allowing for use by such handy objects as Mickey Mouse pool cues, broom handles, handy pieces of bamboo and any other garden implement. We realise of course that there are always many ways to achieve the same result, and that anyone not using a mahlstick is of course handicapped and should possibly be treated as menatally retarded. This information should be treated as confidential and not be used in general forums etc.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
iam left handed....anda maul stick was never something i could get used to. i do like si usin my right hand as a bridge. this keeps me outa the paint. also iam a potter(make thing outa clay on a wheel)and you also bridge one hand with the other while pulling the clay. so doin this with a brush feels natural to me. i went to the purcells web page last nite....they got LANGNICKEL BRUSHES... while doin the truck bed the other day i discovered i hada 1/8" GREY FLASH and iwant a couple more of these....also my #8 langnickel is loosin hair is now a #6....hehehehehehehe
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
"while doin the truck bed the other day i discovered i hada 1/8" GREY FLASH and iwant a couple more of these...."
Damn joe, what kinda truck was that a Tonka or an AMT....a 1/8 flat Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
george go look at jills post "tips on painting with mask"...i got pics there....yes i had to ouline the yellow letters, and had no #4 quills worth a schit ......on the THIN side....hehehehehhehe
[ January 29, 2006, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
allright, I'm leaving now!
Posted by Arthur Vanson (Member # 2855) on :
Ian/David
Clearly, that Fosters is stronger than I was led to believe.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
I'm not one for using a maulstick and it still surprises me how easily Gump picked it up. He'll usually use one of my nylon drumsticks and flip it around with an ease and comfort I can't.
Course, I play drums better'n he does...so far. Rapid
![[Bash]](graemlins/bash.gif)
![[For Your Information]](graemlins/fyi.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
. Also, if I ever had to do a duplicate sign in vinyl, it would be real tough to do unless it was a digital print from a camera. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
. . .constant questions and repairs . . .and they can be eventually fixed with technical assistance via the BB and phone calls walking through it . . .![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
The profit margin and satisfaction speaks for itself! I make a VERY good living and enjoy doing it. My daughter does too!![[Group Hug]](graemlins/grouphug.gif)
![[Applause]](graemlins/applause.gif)
![[Thanks]](graemlins/thanks.gif)
Beany
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
you sure have a way with words!
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
